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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:31 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:LOL a nuclear false flag attack?

    You been hitting the pipe more than usual Vann?

    There was and is still a plan by USA that was designed during 1970s to attack a Soviet friendly country like GDR with US and to lure out Soviet troops on german soil and than to use an average of 300 tactical nukes to decimate Soviet military troops. Don't remember the actual Operation name, something vocally similiar to Operation Battle Royal.

    You know both sides made a bunch of really nutty "doomsday" scenarios during the Cold War right?

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a plan to depopulate random non-aligned countries with nukes to make sure they don't have a relative power gain after a full nuclear exchange.

    For Soviet Union it was just common sense to nuclear overkill some countries which were all NATO alined countries look at how many nukes are just in Europe they are a threat, not to mention germany, netherland, Turkey and who knows how many other countries in europe store US american nukes for only one and the same purpose first strike capability against russia. The US on the other hand had specific plans and still has specific plans to wage nuclear war on its "allies" territory, if you are an enemy it is something you can expect to be attacked by russia, if you are an ally it is not really expected to be vaporized by your own allies and just used as bait for the enemy forces.


    They are not allies they are conquered lands. At least we, the educated people, should stop this nonsense.

    Werewolf
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:36 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:LOL a nuclear false flag attack?

    You been hitting the pipe more than usual Vann?

    There was and is still a plan by USA that was designed during 1970s to attack a Soviet friendly country like GDR with US and to lure out Soviet troops on german soil and than to use an average of 300 tactical nukes to decimate Soviet military troops. Don't remember the actual Operation name, something vocally similiar to Operation Battle Royal.

    You know both sides made a bunch of really nutty "doomsday" scenarios during the Cold War right?

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a plan to depopulate random non-aligned countries with nukes to make sure they don't have a relative power gain after a full nuclear exchange.

    For Soviet Union it was just common sense to nuclear overkill some countries which were all NATO alined countries look at how many nukes are just in Europe they are a threat, not to mention germany, netherland, Turkey and who knows how many other countries in europe store US american nukes for only one and the same purpose first strike capability against russia. The US on the other hand had specific plans and still has specific plans to wage nuclear war on its "allies" territory, if you are an enemy it is something you can expect to be attacked by russia, if you are an ally it is not really expected to be vaporized by your own allies and just used as bait for the enemy forces.


    They are not allies they are conquered lands. At least we, the educated people, should stop this nonsense.

    That is exactly why i said "allies" with the marks.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:14 am



    Oh look, T-72s. They must be Russian.

    BTW, Thales equipment in a T-72 proves f*ck all. Ukraine used Thales equipment in its upgrades as well.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:18 am

    Man, stop embarrassing yourself.

    Those T-72s look nothing like the T-72B3s that have been spotted in Donbass.

    It's not JUST Thales equipment. It is the fact that everything about the tanks we saw in Donbass implicates them in being T-72B3.
    The rebels recapturing one and filming it all over really put the dot on that case.


    Even everyone on OTvaga 2004 (a pro Russian site by any stretch, and also the best armor forum in Ruweb) can tell it is a T-72B3, but we still got you clueless ignoramuses desperately trying to argue it away.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:25 am

    Some will deny it like you still deny along with some others like Georgian that there are no nazis in ukraine, play double standards, you must have learned it in your US regime when they start to share their national treasures aka hypocrisy.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:40 am

    TR1 wrote:Man, stop embarrassing yourself.

    Those T-72s look nothing like the T-72B3s that have been spotted in Donbass.

    It's not JUST Thales equipment. It is the fact that everything about the tanks we saw in Donbass implicates them in being T-72B3.
    The rebels recapturing one and filming it all over really put the dot on that case.


    Even everyone on OTvaga 2004 (a pro Russian site by any stretch, and also the best armor forum in Ruweb) can tell it is a T-72B3, but we still got you clueless ignoramuses desperately trying to argue it away.


    You were saying TR1.. Ukraine have no T-72s.. so now you admit your were wrong? Laughing lol1 lol1

    As i told you Ukraine is being armed by NATO nations.. with T-72s tanks that they had from Russia.. the details
    dont know but this is what people in the know have said.. not fanboys that still today support the nazis in Ukraine and talk about "territorian integrity" but says nothing about the Ethnic cleaning of civilians and the mass graves in places where the uki army deploy.. We are not speaking about "collateral damage" but about intentional genocide of Ethnic Russians.. intentional bombing of churchs with no rebels.. in intentional bombing from the airport to museums and parks with children playing.. How can you expect.. Russia to sit down and do nothing while civilians to wants to be closer to Russia, are being bombed?  So it is to choose between breaking international laws to save civilians..
    vs..  not doing anything and allowing Ukraine and NATO to continue bombing civilians to provoke Russia to invade.
    I think saving civilians women and children is more worthy ,that the entire belief system you have about how Russia government should behave.  This is even more true.. when Russia is not interested in taking more territory. Russia will not annex eastern ukraine.. they simply wants the war to stop and both sides to negotiate an autonomy.. or a federation or any compromise that will allow the war to end  and both sides to negotiate .  

    If you see a family next to your house being murdered..by a serial killer.. and people screaming for help and you have experience in combat and know you can help..them.. will you say.. oh no.. thats private property ,is against the law to enter,. and then turn around and do nothing? No

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:09 am

    F-15E wrote:
    and Ukie can easily fake a Russian T-72 ?

    Nope they can't.


    How do you want them to "fake" a Russian T72B3 ?

    if you look in it,you can see thales components,and it is also written in Russian right ?



    Not a problem.. NATO could easily modify a T-72 with Ukraine manufacturing help ,get thales from france ,write russian letters. a photo of putin inside and tada..and a Russian invasion.

    IF you ever did your homework of how 9/11 WTC  false flag attack was done .. by the FBI /Pentagon and all Federal
    Goverment agencies.. you will have not a doubt that NATO with Ukraine could pull that stunt. We are speaking here about people who shut down the Mh-17 to frame Russia and his rebels.

    Just look at your own shown T-72b3 videos and you will see the double white lines,painted in front of the tank that all ukies uses..How it is.. that Ukrainians capture a "Russian tank" and instead of sending it to kiev and show the "ultimate proof" of Russian invasion.. the nazis simply prefer to paint double white lines (as they do in their tanks)..and continue fighting? like nothing happened?   Rolling Eyes  

    Go and learn how US pentagon generals rebelled against chenney ,when Bush JR was President.. because he wanted to Paint and decorate one of their warships as an iranian warship.. and use it as a false flag attack against their own navy.   NATO do false flags all the time... in all conflicts .. whenever possible.. And building a copy of T-72sB3s with the help of Ukraine tanks builders..will be entirely possible for NATO with the resources  money they have.
    Thales optics? No problem France can supply it to Ukraine. Russian letters ? if that really hard to do?


    Im sure we will see much more than the Mh-17. if the conflict last for long...involving "Russian army soldiers" that NATO will claim.. in a false flag.. and T-72b3s copies will be perfect for the job to frame Russia..
    For the record.. I think Russia is helping.. The problem i have is that i don't think they will make it too easy for the west.. to know. So if Russia don't bother to hide they are helping... then why not give the best equipment they have? why not a T-90am tank? 


    If Russian army was inside Ukraine.. civilians will not be killed almost every day ,and the ukies allowed to shell civilians. The claim that "RUssian artillery " can't reach the Rebels positions is non sense. if Russia is supplying T-72 b3s that Obviously expose Russia.. then why not give the Rebels Modern artillery with 90km to 200km range they have? why not an iskander-M? Why not give laser precision krasnopol artillery? why not attack drones?  Simply Russia army is not there.. if they were there the nazis bombing civilians will have not been allowed to bomb them. Because otherwise they will be no point to invade if they will do nothing to protect civilians. Private military volunteers is a different story. but Russia armed forces? don;t think so. You only have to look at motorola using the same gear that Russian army.. use.. but no one claim he is part of the russian army.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:33 am; edited 3 times in total

    kvs
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:10 am

    Pointing out the war crimes of the Kiev regime forces to these clowns is pointless. They don't care. They only care about their
    fantasies of Russian GRU and regular army creating a fake insurgency. Everyone knows that ethnic Russians just love Banderites.
    Much like Poles and Jews who enjoyed Bandera's humanitarian good works during WWII.

    If the people of the Donbass, all 8 million of them, love Bandera and the Kiev regime so much, then how come there are basically
    no photos or videos of the Russian army and the GRU in action? Why do we need Shaun Walker of The Guardian to make unsubstantiated
    claims about Russian army columns crossing into Ukraine? There should have been dozens of cell phone videos of such columns by
    all the Kiev loyal locals. Also, if these 8 million people love the NATO quislings in Kiev with all their hearts, why is there no evidence
    of an insurgency against Russian forces? Such an insurgency should have already formed and should have been gathering steam.
    It would get the full support of NATO and of its dogs in Kiev.

    Nope, the NATO narrative does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. It is pure BS.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:11 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Man, stop embarrassing yourself.

    Those T-72s look nothing like the T-72B3s that have been spotted in Donbass.

    It's not JUST Thales equipment. It is the fact that everything about the tanks we saw in Donbass implicates them in being T-72B3.
    The rebels recapturing one and filming it all over really put the dot on that case.


    Even everyone on OTvaga 2004 (a pro Russian site by any stretch, and also the best armor forum in Ruweb) can tell it is a T-72B3, but we still got you clueless ignoramuses desperately trying to argue it away.


    You were saying TR1.. Ukraine have no T-72s.. so now you admit your were wrong? Laughing lol1 lol1

    As i told you Ukraine is being armed by NATO nations.. with T-72s tanks that they had from Russia.. the details
    dont know but this is what people in the know have said.. not fanboys that still today support the nazis in Ukraine and talk about "territorian integrity" but says nothing about the Ethnic cleaning of civilians and the mass graves in places where the uki army deploy.. We are not speaking about "collateral damage" but about intentional genocide of Ethnic Russians.. intentional bombing of churchs with no rebels.. in intentional bombing from the airport to museums and parks with children playing.. How can you expect.. Russia to sit down and do nothing while civilians to wants to be closer to Russia, are being bombed?  So it is to choose between breaking international laws to save civilians..
    vs..  not doing anything and allowing Ukraine and NATO to continue bombing civilians to provoke Russia to invade.
    I think saving civilians women and children is more worthy ,that the entire belief system you have about how Russia government should behave.  This is even more true.. when Russia is not interested in taking more territory. Russia will not annex eastern ukraine.. they simply wants the war to stop and both sides to negotiate an autonomy.. or a federation or any compromise that will allow the war to end  and both sides to negotiate .  

    If you see a family next to your house being murdered..by a serial killer.. and people screaming for help and you have experience in combat and know you can help..them.. will you say.. oh no.. thats private property ,is against the law to enter,. and then turn around and do nothing? No

    I never said Ukraine had no T-72s. I said Ukraine has no T-72B3s. Which it doesn't.

    I know, the difference still escapes some people.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:12 am

    The so-called T-72B3 is the only sample shown. This challenges the credibility of the claim. If Russia was going to
    send over T-72s it would use models that Ukraine has. That should be trivial for Russia. If Russia was sending
    in T-72B3 models then there would be many of them and we would have all those alleged Kiev loyal locals making photos
    of them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:21 am

    Should have would have, could have.

    The reality is there are multiple T-72B3s and BTR-82s and Russian BMD-2s and all sorts of other stuff that points to Russia's involvement.


    But yes I am sure all hose are coincidence and fakes.
    When the rebels talk about getting vehicles and volunteers and "vacationers" from Russia, they are also repeating Ukrainian lies.

    And Russia did send plenty of run of the mil T-72Bs to the rebels. They are all over the place, and appeared well before Ukrainian forces utilized the type in the ATO in any sort of operation.

    And they did send multiple T-72B3s, both LostArmor and that report I linked show a number of clearly distinct T-72B3s. Some destroyed, others fine.
    And there are a crap ton of photos. Denying it is hilarious.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:23 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Just look at your own shown T-72b3 images and you will see the double white lines, that all ukies uses..
    How it is.. that Ukrainians capture a "Russian tank" and instead of sending it to kiev and show the "ultimate proof" of Russian invasion.. the nazis simply prefer to paint double white lines (as they do in their tanks)..and continue fighting? like nothing happened?  lol1

    Easy, if you have actually been following the fighting instead of reading 9/11 conspiracy theories.

    The Ukranians captured a number of vehicles during the fighting in the pockets far behind the current front lines. They brought the ones they could into their own service since...you know...they needed vehicles, and they couldn't just magically send them back to Kiev when they were more or less encircled and attacked from all sides.

    They tried to fight out and got destroyed, and lost a bunch of their armor. That includes some T-72s that were captured back or destoyed in the process.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Zivo on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:36 am

    There's T-72B3's, a few of them, that much is obvious. But, none have been seen after the first ones showed up online. They were likely withdrawn back to Russia. I don't know about the crews.

    I've seen a hell of a lot more rebel T-64's driving around though.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:39 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Just look at your own shown T-72b3 images and you will see the double white lines, that all ukies uses..
    How it is.. that Ukrainians capture a "Russian tank" and instead of sending it to kiev and show the "ultimate proof" of Russian invasion.. the nazis simply prefer to paint double white lines (as they do in their tanks)..and continue fighting? like nothing happened?  lol1  

    Easy, if you have actually been following the fighting instead of reading 9/11 conspiracy theories.

    The Ukranians captured a number of vehicles during the fighting in the pockets far behind the current front lines. They brought the ones they could into their own service since...you know...they needed vehicles, and they couldn't just magically send them back to Kiev when they were more or less encircled and attacked from all sides.

    They tried to fight out and got destroyed, and lost a bunch of their armor. That includes some T-72s that were captured back or destoyed in the process.

    SOunds good..

    But is that what you think happened? or it is exactly how it happened by your Internal secret sources?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:25 am

    Cant we all just agree that these T-72s are ukrainian whose ERA was made to look superficially russian while the thales sight was given from the west as part that "non-lethal"aid and bolted on. BTW what is the exact version and designation of the sight? All in all its the perfect neocon false flag.

    Ignore TR1's biased cherry picking.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:53 am

    TR1 wrote:I never said Ukraine had no T-72s. I said Ukraine has no T-72B3s. Which it doesn't.

    They can make something with the apperance looks similar to T-72B3. After all it is just images and film on the internet. If you and I cannot touch these samples, there are quite a number of ways for them to fool us.

    If Russia wants to sent weapons to Ukie, they must make its looks like Ukie ones. It is unwise to send something to Ukie which the media can easily says "it is Russia, not something else". People have to do it in a more secretive way, because, probably, Moskva do not want to give the Western opponents a reason to gather more support for the West.

    For me a "Russian T-64 in Ukie" even makes more sense than T-72B3.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:11 am

    A couple of individual vehicles photographed is not evidence of Russian government intervention... just like stocks of Negev LMGs in Georgia is not evidence of Israeli units fighting in South Ossetia.

    I have seen photos of bodyguards protecting Ukrainian officials armed with European weapons, so NATO is clearly supporting the illegal government of the Ukraine... should they be throwing stones at Russia?


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Regular on Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:45 am

    Why we come back to same topic if we always end up arguing without conclusion.

    To think that those tanks are used for PR are farfetched. I think they were supplied by Russia to turn tide against Ukrainian armoured onslaught in Ilovaisk. Western media doesn't give a damn about those tanks, or facts at all. They were screaming about invasion from day 1. T-72 weren't big news even on Ukrainian media. Russian patch, papers, social media post makes bigger news Very Happy

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  George1000cy on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:03 pm

    Why are you people still arguing about something that is not important???
    Ukraine is under OCCUPATION by the US and it's minions and you still argue about a tank???

    Besides, Russia has a right to defend Eastern Ukraine no matter what you say.

    dunno

    PS: If Russian tanks were helping people in Eastern Ukraine believe me we would all know it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Regular on Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:02 pm

    Ukraine is under occupation of their stupidity. And we argue about equipment because it's one of our main interests here on military forum

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  Asf on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:55 pm

    F-15E wrote:
    and Ukie can easily fake a Russian T-72 ?

    Nope they can't.


    How do you want them to "fake" a Russian T72B3 ?

    if you look in it,you can see thales components,and it is also written in Russian right ?



    Lol, the video actually shows separatists with captured T-72M. Look at their crosses moking the Russian Empire's Georgian ones - they aren't Ukraine's awards. Plus video clearly states it's a captured T-72M. And two worn stripes are clearly ukraininian forces designation marks. Seems like belorussians (thermal sight produser) and french (thermal sight co-produser) trade not only with the russian MoD. T-72B3's optics aren't russian-made if you don't know. T-72B3 isn't the only modification that uses this sight here, go check here T-72A and T-72M can be fitted with it as well.
    PS: Russians, belorussians and ukraininians all use Russian language even having their own 'very special' languages for nation-building reasons. If you don't know.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  VladimirSahin on Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:55 pm

    There is a channel which its name is Kazzura it shows the war in Ukraine from the rebels point of view and he translates what they say to english.  It showed many war footage including tanks in the airport (which is what Ukraine has been sending hordes of assaults onto) yet there was no T-72B3  but a T-72B on the rebel's side.  Would it not be smart to use a T-72B3 if they had it there?  Or are they using it in the reserves?  I'm sure there is probably special forces from Russia there training the rebels but to say something like sending a very modern tank to a battle where it can risk death and being caught as evidence is pretty funny.

    A quick question though,  Does anyone know the casualties suffered by the Ukrainian side?  I know over 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers died its a shame all those young guys.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  F-15E on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:05 pm

    NATO propaganda for sure. Very Happy

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:43 am

    F-15E wrote:NATO propaganda for sure. Very Happy

    The clown narrating the video yaps about Russian tanks coming from Russia to attack the locals. This video is clearly
    a propaganda production. It's Kiev's product, but NATO is happy.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:37 am

    kvs wrote:
    F-15E wrote:NATO propaganda for sure. Very Happy

    The clown narrating the video yaps about Russian tanks coming from Russia to attack the locals.    This video is clearly
    a propaganda production.   It's Kiev's product, but NATO is happy.

    ...LOL very reminiscent of "the Afghan Mujahadeen/Taliban are freedom fighters"...




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