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    Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

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    Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    [ 19 ]
    46% [46%] 
    [ 2 ]
    5% [5%] 
    [ 9 ]
    22% [22%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
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    [ 11 ]
    27% [27%] 

    Total Votes: 41
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon May 11, 2015 9:35 am

    Poland a big military...in Europe?

    Who are we kidding here? Poland compared to Italy is like Poland compared to France...bar the Nuclear deterrent.

    As It is the Aeronautica Militare pounds the Polish armed forces to oblivion, let alone taking on the abysmal Polish airforce. The whole idea that Poland is anything near a contender to the top 5 military in Western Europe is laughable...Especially with countries like Spain, Germany and the Dutch. Furthermore you have to look at how easy it is for these countries to arm and maintain weapon production. Poland again is nowere near being capable of maintaining a large park economically and producing its own. They've been trying to produce a rifle for a decade FFS.

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    Inetwarrior

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Inetwarrior on Mon May 11, 2015 3:15 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Poland a big military...in Europe?

    Who are we kidding here? Poland compared to Italy is like Poland compared to France...bar the Nuclear deterrent.

    As It is the Aeronautica Militare pounds the Polish armed forces to oblivion, let alone taking on the abysmal Polish airforce. The whole idea that Poland is anything near a contender to the top 5 military in Western Europe is laughable...Especially with countries like Spain, Germany and the Dutch. Furthermore you have to look at how easy it is for these countries to arm and maintain weapon production. Poland again is nowere near being capable of maintaining a large park economically and producing its own. They've been trying to produce a rifle for a decade FFS.


    Thats kinda realistic approach. Guys You overestimate army of my country... We have some Leo tanks but until last year we do not have ammo for them... Our F_16 are not fully combat ready. Navy is nonexistent, only some recently bought antiship missles have any value... Air defence is old
    We have some assets already on good level - like Rosomaks. Propably well trained Special forces.
    But something start to change and we start to buy modern stuff fast. Level of training of some soldiers goes up... Still we are not Stronkkk!
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon May 11, 2015 10:31 pm

    Half of military power is about being able to make your own weapons. France not only has 92% independence but controls the entire process of their nuclear deterent. Their military isn't big but it is one of the most advanced full spectrum forces in the world. With the current order book for 2020, next only to the US in modernity.


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 11, 2015 11:09 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Half of military power is about being able to make your own weapons.  France not only has 92% independence but controls the entire process of their nuclear deterent.  Their military isn't big but it is one of the most advanced full spectrum forces in the world. With the current order book for 2020, next only to the US in modernity.

    I agree, France has the best military in Europe. However there's one flaw in the French MIC, all their pieces on their 'chessboard' are ridiculously expensive, even their 'pawns'. Like you said 50% of military strength is the capability to produce all your equipment, but I would argue the other 50% is the capability of your MIC to produce cost-effective weapons. What's the point of having advanced 'toys' when you can't buy them in serious numbers?

    Leclerc tanks on the verge of $10 million, Rafale jets costing $126 million a piece...gold plating on a white elephant!
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue May 12, 2015 4:31 am

    Their military equipment is so expensive because they don't have the scale of the US to bring it down. Once the Rafale line for instance starts pushing out hundreds of aircraft, cost per unit will go down by a large margin. That is why the French Air Force is willing to delay two years of deliveries, they want it cheaper.


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 12, 2015 5:12 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Their military equipment is so expensive because they don't have the scale of the US to bring it down.  Once the Rafale line for instance starts pushing out hundreds of aircraft, cost per unit will go down by a large margin.  That is why the French Air Force is willing to delay two years of deliveries, they want it cheaper.

    I'm not so sure about that...

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue May 12, 2015 5:26 am

    That isn't the cost off the assembly line, that is a lifetime package, probably with weapons. Qatar is paying $290m per Rafale in a similar deal. India is paying $220m minus weapons.


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    George1

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:18 am

    1. France
    2. Great Britain
    3. Germany


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:35 pm

    George1 wrote:1. France
    2. Great Britain
    3. Germany
    4. Finland
    5. Poland
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:18 pm

    Russia, period.
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    Fred333

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Fred333 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:06 pm

    If you count in Russia and Turkey, both would be no.1 and 2 respectively I guess.

    As for the rest, it all depends on several factors, including actual strength, but also training and institutional memory. For example, the UK armed forces have suffered crippling cuts, but they also have a strong tradition of professionalism and institutional knowledge which means they could probably quickly regain strength if funding is increased again.
    My guestimates:
    France (lots of experience, true long range projection capabilities)
    UK (experience, professionalism)
    Finland
    Poland

    Italy and Greece seem impressive on paper, but how good is the training?
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    Godric

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    Re: Which country has the most powerful military in Europe?

    Post  Godric on Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:00 pm

    EU wise it is France ... France controls it's own nuclear detterent whereas The UK doesn't the trident missiles are leased from America
    France has a active Aircraft carrier the UK hasn't and won't have one active by 2017/18 with no aircraft til after 2020 F-35B lol
    and then their is the fact that the UK is not united it is very much divided it won't survive much longer than a couple of years at most another referendum will be unleashed for 2017/18 after the holyrood elections in 2016

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