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    Civilian Firearms Market

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    GarryB
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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:10 am

    I wouldn't mind a carbine version of it with longer barrels and a proper buttstock.

    Two 410 barrels and a 5.45 x 39mm calibre barrel would be interesting.

    The 410s would be useful for rabbits and possums while the 5.45mm could be used on rabbits at longer ranges or goats perhaps.

    Of course if you are going to make it bigger and heavier then perhaps a 4 barrel weapon with 2 side by side 12 gauge barrels with 3.5 inch magnum chambers, and perhaps an upper barrel in 7.62 x 39mm and a lower barrel in the same calibre would be useful too.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:49 pm

    Saiga MK-107, The civilian version of the AK-107 has been displayed at the IWA-2013 exhibition in Germany.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:04 am

    Very nice.

    The more I see, the more I like.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:27 pm

    do you have to be a policeman or a registered in a hunting club and have to do forest maintenance activities to legally own a firearm in Russia? in Bulgaria those are these sh*tty laws virtually prohibit anyone from collecting guns or using them for sport shooting only Mad

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:28 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Why do you need to carry that much ammo when hunting?



    I carry at least 20-30 shotshells when hunting with a shotgun, for one simple reason-

    If you become lost or stranded/injured, the standard procedure is to fire 3 shots in rapid succession, to which another hunter will fire 2 shots to respond and then you fire 3 more in rapid succession to confirm you are indeed in distress.

    Of course it is best to wait until the sun is starting to go down when hunting has ended for the day so they don't mistake the 3 rapid shots for somebody who is simply taking 3 quick shots at game.



    I also carry a 9mm pistol and three fully loaded magazines for the purpose of self-defense because you never know who [or what you will encounter while hunting]. It wouldn't be uncommon to come across a coyote and I doubt the ability of #6 shot to reliably stop a coyote. I not only doubt the ability of #6 shot to stop a person, I know it won't stop a person! If somebody in the wilderness/woods/swamp/etc means to do me harm, I would rather meet their aggression with my 9mm pistol than with my 12 gauge loaded with #6 bird-shot.

    GarryB
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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:15 am

    There aren't any dangerous animals here in NZ, but when shooting rabbits I can often see 20-30 rabbits around in the day time and maybe shoot 10-15.

    Up central Otago they have the Easter bunny shoot and they usually get 15-20 thousand rabbits on a weekends hunt.

    When shooting with a centrefire rifle like an AK if I am shooting feral goats you can often see them in groups of 4-5... I am of course talking about pest erradication, not game hunting.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:43 pm

    Having found out that a suppressor for my SLR will cost $750, I am now looking at other things I can spend money on.

    I did find a rifle called the Rossi Wizard which is a simple break open weapon that is single shot but comes with three barrels, including a .22lr barrel, a .223 barrel and a 12 gauge barrel and there are a total of 23 barrels you can buy for it including a 12 gauge rifled barrel for slugs, and a range of rifle, shotgun and pistol calibres.

    Wish there was a Russian equivalent of this as there are plenty of simple cheap Russian single shot weapons...

    Hopefully this year or next Russian gun makers will come out with new innovative weapons I can spend my money on.

    Interesting that Rossi also make a revolver rifle that can have a 9 shot .22lr cylinder or a .22WMR cylinder... so a choice of power or economy... just like the Yastreb.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:08 am

    As mentioned in another thread I have bought an MP-654K air pistol from Baikal.

    It is pretty much a PMM modernised Makarov pistol.

    It takes 13 ball bearings in its magazine along with a CO2 powerlet which propels the BBs to their target.

    The PMM handles and operates and evens strips the same as a PMM and is an awesome replica with the correct weight and balance.

    Have contacted the shop I got it from as there is the MP-655K which is a model of the Viking pistol, which is a commercial PYa replica. According to Baikals website the MP-655K can fire BBs or wasted air rifle pellets so I am very interested in that...

    They also have full sized full weight replicas of the PSM... it would be cool if they had suppressed model Makarovs and Stechkins too.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:22 am

    For me I would love to have an SVT-40 but those are darn expensive in the USA and none can be imported from Russia due to the general ban on just about all surplus military firearms of Russian origin, not exactly a ban, more of an "agreement" or a "gentleman's agreement" Russia made with the US State Department.


    Presently I only have two rifles from Russia.

    I would like to get an American legal version of the Russian AK-47, AKM, the AK-74, and the AKS-74U, but for the most part it is only possible to get "kit guns" or "parts kits guns" using some Russian parts and mostly American parts. Most people go with the Polish Tantal or Bulgarian AK-74 style rifle to get the AK-74. My AK-74 is Bulgarian, very accurate, reliable, rugged, my only complaint is that it tends to get VERY hot very quickly, even after just two or three magazines in a 10-15 minute period, it becomes too hot to comfortably hold without gloves.




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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:30 am

    I have an SVT-40 in excellent condition. Looks awesome and shoots great.
    Dis-assembling for cleaning is a chore.
    SKS is more practical.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:07 am

    SKSs are very popular here as they are a good calibre for wild goats and small deer and of course they are simple and cheap.

    Took my new pistol out for a blast yesterday... it is quite noisy... shame they don't come with a suppressor... I might have a go at making one myself...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:41 pm

    Is there any provision in Russian law for a citizen to own a Makarov pistol or any other sort of pistol, or to carry a pistol for defense/protection?

    What sort of rifles may be owned? Can the SKS or SVT-40 be owned?

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:SKSs are very popular here as they are a good calibre for wild goats and small deer and of course they are simple and cheap.

    Took my new pistol out for a blast yesterday... it is quite noisy... shame they don't come with a suppressor... I might have a go at making one myself...



    Suppressors are a fairly significant deal in the USA, by which I mean it is not something you can buy over the counter at a gun store and leave with the same day. It takes paperwork and around 6-7 months of waiting for the papers to be processed, in order to obtain a suppressor.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:13 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    GarryB wrote:SKSs are very popular here as they are a good calibre for wild goats and small deer and of course they are simple and cheap.

    Took my new pistol out for a blast yesterday... it is quite noisy... shame they don't come with a suppressor... I might have a go at making one myself...



    Suppressors are a fairly significant deal in the USA, by which I mean it is not something you can buy over the counter at a gun store and leave with the same day. It takes paperwork and around 6-7 months of waiting for the papers to be processed, in order to obtain a suppressor.

    you mean silencer not suppressor

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:07 pm

    NationalRus wrote:
    BTRfan wrote:
    GarryB wrote:SKSs are very popular here as they are a good calibre for wild goats and small deer and of course they are simple and cheap.

    Took my new pistol out for a blast yesterday... it is quite noisy... shame they don't come with a suppressor... I might have a go at making one myself...



    Suppressors are a fairly significant deal in the USA, by which I mean it is not something you can buy over the counter at a gun store and leave with the same day. It takes paperwork and around 6-7 months of waiting for the papers to be processed, in order to obtain a suppressor.

    you mean silencer not suppressor
     
     
     
    Only in Hollywood are they called silencers, the correcy industry term is SUPPRESSOR. Nothing is totally quiet, we are talking about a dB reduction from 160 to 130, still loud but not loud enough to cause instant hearing damage.



    Company 1- Gemtech, calls them Suppressors-

    http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/Rifle-Suppressors-c5.htm


    Company 2- Surefire, calls them Suppressors, with "silencers" next to the word Suppressors so they can show up in a search online if somebody who watches too many movies wants to buy a suppressor and searches for silencers.

    http://www.surefire.com/tactical-equipment/sound-suppressors.html

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:23 pm

    a silencers and suppressorare are 2 things, one cancels as much noise as possible and indeed is hard get, the other one is is build diffrently and mostly suppresses the flash and only some noise

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:32 pm

    NationalRus wrote:a silencers and suppressorare are 2 things, one cancels as much noise as possible and indeed is hard get, the other one is is build diffrently and mostly suppresses the flash and only some noise


    Use whatever terms you feel like.


    I own two SOUND SUPPRESSORS and I know what the industry term is.




    http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/TREK-9p50.htm




    The TREK is our shortest, most rugged threadmount suppressor: a 5.56mm unit suitable for full auto and usage on modern, shorter barrel (10.3" or greater) carbines. The quietest of the Gemtech threadmounting suppressors, it also features a short profile that keeps compact carbines compact.




    http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/MOSSAD-II-p44.htm


    We continually refine our suppressors — lighter, smaller, less blowback, and of course, quieter. The newest update of our dedicated UZI suppressor, the Gemtech MOSSAD-II is no exception to our dedication in making great suppressors better. The MOSSAD-II is is made to fit interchangeably between the full-size and mini UZI submachine guns with no modification whatsoever to the host firearm.

    For strength and shorter overall length, the suppressor slips over the barrel and locks down tightly as it replaces the existing barrel retaining nut. Weighing only 12 ounces, it extends the length of the firearm approximately 7.7 inches in front of the muzzle — keeping things compact and balanced for subgun action matches and fast handling. The MOSSAD-II tames recoil and flash without affecting accuracy of the firearm. Keeping with the compact performance Gemtech is known for, it outperforms many significantly larger, more expensive, and heavier suppressors.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:42 pm

    just looked it up i see i confused ther somthing, had it otherwise in mind

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:45 pm

    NationalRus wrote:just looked it up i see i confused ther somthing, had it otherwise in mind


    I was only telling you to help you and correct you. In the USA if you go into a gun store and ask to look at a "silencer" they will show you a suppressor "silencer" but they will also think you're an ignorant chump who watches too many mafia movies or plays too many video games.


    A silencer is a media/movie term, although it doesn't help that the ATF/government also tends to use that term on some forms.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:13 pm

    Suppressors are a fairly significant deal in the USA, by which I mean it is not something you can buy over the counter at a gun store and leave with the same day. It takes paperwork and around 6-7 months of waiting for the papers to be processed, in order to obtain a suppressor.

    Here in New Zealand they are legal and have no restriction... have you heard a car with a hole in its muffler?

    Makes shooting much more comfortable for both the shooters and those nearby.

    Of course for tubes of plastic or metal they can be quite expensive... as I mentioned getting a suppressor for my SLR (FN FAL/L1A1) would be $750.

    you mean silencer not suppressor

    Supppressors and silencers are terms that mean essentially the same thing and are often used interchangeably.

    Of course in the strictest sense a silencer cannot be used with supersonic ammo and often is built in to a weapon and includes holes drilled into the barrel so that normally supersonic ammo becomes subsonic.

    A good example is the suppressed model of the Makarov pistol which has a detachable silencer and a drilled barrel so that it is quiet even with standard (supersonic) ammo.


    Only in Hollywood are they called silencers, the correcy industry term is SUPPRESSOR. Nothing is totally quiet, we are talking about a dB reduction from 160 to 130, still loud but not loud enough to cause instant hearing damage.

    Actually when firing my .22lr rimfire bolt action rifles with suppressors fitted you hear a faint click of the rim being crushed and the other sound you can hear is the impact of the bullet on the target. There is no Phutt sound or blowing sound like you hear in movies... that is of course with subsonic ammo.

    a silencers and suppressorare are 2 things, one cancels as much noise as possible and indeed is hard get, the other one is is build diffrently and mostly suppresses the flash and only some noise

    Then the difference is the ammo and action of the weapon used.

    Here in NZ as I said there are no limitations... if you want you can phone a gunsmith and have them build you a rifle... the de lisle is a popular design to copy... 45 calibre round... any one you want, including 45/70, with an old worn out 303 bolt action rifle... wont be cheap but will be quiet and effective.

    We have fairly strict laws regarding pistols however so suppressed handguns are more exotic.

    A silencer is a media/movie term, although it doesn't help that the ATF/government also tends to use that term on some forms.

    It doesn't matter what you call them here they pretty much mean the same thing and are interchangeable.

    Generally speaking though if you ask for a silencer it will be for a bolt action and they will be expecting you to use subsonic ammo and the weapon will actually be quiet.

    A suppressor is more for semi automatics and with supersonic ammo so you can shoot without ear protection.

    I have taken a .22 out to shoot rabbits with a silencer fitted only to find it was zeroed for high velocity ammo after my first shot which went about half a metre high. The rabbit heard the impact behind it on the slope it was standing in but because I was lying down it didn't know what was happening so it ran about 3 metres and then stopped standing up on its back legs listening to work out what had happened. I gave the top turret a turn 8 clicks down and took another shot that hit the dirt about half a metre low, to which the rabbit jumped up in the air about a metre and turned and ran back the 3 metres to where it was when I first saw it and stopped and listened on its toes. I cranked the top turret up 4 clicks and shot it through the eye... it flopped over dead.

    Once it was shooting to aim I had no further problems and just used a hold over for longer range shots.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:00 pm

    Yeah, I know it is not a Russian civilian firearm, but I recently got the chance and took it... the rifle I have on layby:



    Despite appearances it is a .22lr rifle and the suppressor is fake... it is a barrel extension to make it legal here.


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:44 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, I know it is not a Russian civilian firearm, but I recently got the chance and took it... the rifle I have on layby:



    Despite appearances it is a .22lr rifle and the suppressor is fake... it is a barrel extension to make it legal here.

    Is that a GSG rifle?

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  Regular on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:47 am

    I know it's off-topic, but what is like to shoot weapon with silence? And I'm not asking about bullet ballistics, but what about recoil and etc. ?

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:08 am

    Yup.

    15 shot mags to comply with local laws on semi autos.

    I know it's off-topic, but what is like to shoot weapon with silence? And I'm not asking about bullet ballistics, but what about recoil and etc. ?
    With .22lr rifles it is just quiet, but with my first significant suppressed rifle... a Mosin Nagant Model 1944 carbine the difference was astonishing... the flinch was totally noticable.

    Normally when I fire a MN carbine I get into a good shooting position and wait for the huge flash and reasonable kick, but with a suppressor fitted the flash is totally gone along with the blast... just the click of the bolt slapping forward and then a sharp crack like a .22 magnum being fired and then a loud thump of the impact of the bullet on the ground.

    The recoil seems far less, and as I said the first time I fired it I flinched expecting more kick and more blast and more flash out of habit but it just wasn't there.

    On the AK there is the mechanical noise of the mechanism cycling and the crack of the bullet but the boom from the shot is not there and again it is more comfortable to fire.

    I would highly recommend it if you get the chance as it transforms shooting larger calibre weapons into something much more fun... even with ear plugs and ear muffs the MN tends to give me headaches after 20-30 shots as the blast tends to go right through you, but with a suppressor I run out of ammo before I get tired shooting it... happiness is a hot barrel... sniper 


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:31 pm

    Regular wrote:I know it's off-topic, but what is like to shoot weapon with silence? And I'm not asking about bullet ballistics, but what about recoil and etc. ?
     
    On a semi-automatic or fully-automatic weapon, you generally get gas blown back into your face, at least this is problematic on my AR-15, not so much so with my UZI.
     
    When shooting my AR-15 suppressed, I almost always wear goggles because the blow back of gases into my face upsets my eyes.
     
     
    The sound is very quiet, my suppressed AR-15 sounds similar to an unsuppressed 22 caliber rifle. You could probably fire it without ear plugs but I prefer to wear ear plugs [just a basic set, not the ear muffs] when firing. I'd say the sound might be taken as a baseball bat hitting a piece of wood, an average person would have trouble determining that the sound was a gun shot or more specifically a suppressed gun shot. Note, I have only fired the AR-15 outdoors.
     
     
    With the UZI, things are still moderately loud, even somewhat loud with sub-sonic rounds, but I haven't noticed the offensive blowing back of gas into my face. To me the sound is obviously that of a suppressed weapon, but I have only fired the UZI indoors so I'll have to get an outdoor range and see if that changes how I perceive the sound and the operation of the weapon.

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