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    Civilian Firearms Market

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    Mr.Kalishnikov47
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    Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:45 am

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/03/22/arsenal-firearms-strike-one-pistol/

    The part about the long range conversion is very interesting.

    Also comes in a range of calibers, including 9x21

    Very nice!  Very Happy

    GarryB
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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:28 am

    Interesting.

    More info here:

    http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/rus/strike_one_pistol-e.html

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:39 am

    Thanks for the link Garry, good stuff.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:47 am

    Even more info

    http://www.all4shooters.com/it/Home/News/2012/March/Arsenal_Firearms_Strike_One_semiautomatic_pistol/

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:07 am

    The manufacturers website:

    http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/home

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:26 am

    Thanks for the link TheArmenian, helped me find this video



    good footage, looks promising.

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    Russian Civilian Firearms

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 am

    Here are the Russian civilian (Hunting, shooting,home defence etc.) gun makers. I am including only the enterprise names, websites and a brief description:

    1) Izhevsk Mechanical Plant:
    www.baikalinc.ru
    More commonly known under the brand name "BAIKAL". One of the largest gun makers in the world. They are well known for their inexpensive hunting shotguns, rifles as well as their airguns. They also make the Makarov and Yaryagin pistols.
    Their latest shotgun is the MP-155 semi- automatic which is a follow on to the very successfull MP-153. The new model is expected to go into production soon.

    Photos of the MP-155:




    Last edited by TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:12 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:35 am

    2) Vyatsky Polyany Machine Building Plant:
    www.molot.biz
    Well known for the VEPR branded hunting rifles baseed on the RPK military guns. They also make shotguns etc.
    I was intrigued when they introduced their new semi-auto shotgun called "Tucan" with an under receiver magazine (not common in the shotgun world). But it made sense when they recently they showed the "Griffin" rifle with the same mechanism and action.

    Pictures of the 12 gauge model VPO-211 with a .22 LR version of the AK below it. Refurbished Mosin rifles on the right:


    Close up of the 12 gauge model VPO-211, a 20 gauge model VPO-210 is also available:


    Photo of the VPO-301 Griffin that can have 308 cal or 223 cal or 20 gauge barrels:


    Note that the above firearms are not on the market yet.The Toucan's first units are expected to reach shops soon.

    Last October, they also showed at hunting show a Russian vewrsion of the AR:







    Last edited by TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:21 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:36 am

    3)Izhmash:
    www.izhmash.ru
    www.izhmash-arms.ru
    The well known makers of the Kalashnikovs, Dragunovs etc.
    The civilian variants of the well known guns are known as Saiga, Tigr etc. Izhmash's range is extensive. The whole catalogue can be found here (just click on the photos): http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/294/855698.html

    I'll just post a couple of photos:

    A Saiga (AK based) top. And a Tigr (SVD based) bottom. These rifles come under a number of calibers:


    A rare Medved 9:


    Last edited by TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:37 am

    4) Tskib-SOO (A subsidiary of KBP):
    www.tulatskib.ru

    The designer and maker of the most expensive/exclusive firearms in Russia. The brand name is MTs. Production is limited, some guns cost more than US$ 10,000.-

    Just a few photos:

    MTs-7


    MTs-110


    MTs-22 (bottom) and MTS-558 (top). The later is a civilian version of the military ASh-12 made by KBP.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 am

    5) Tula Arms Plant:
    www.tulatoz.ru
    Once very popular TOZ branded rifles and shotguns are slowly fading away because of lack of new models. Hopefully they will come with something to invigourate their civilian sales, otherwise their production will be limited to military stuff.

    Photo of a decorated model of the legendary TOZ-34:


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:31 pm

    Actually they sell TOZ rifles here in New Zealand. I think the TOZ 78 is a bolt action .22 rifle and there is semi auto rifle too in .22 calibre that are both updates of older models.

    BTW do I understand correctly that the VPO-301 is a rifle/shotgun combination that you can buy barrels for to allow one weapon to be used as a shotgun and as different calibre rifles?

    Sounds awesome.

    I would want a 12 gauge and a 7.62 x 39mm and possibly .223 calibre models plus a 7.62 x 54mm.

    The 12 gauge is good for rabbits and possums, while the 7.62 x 39mm is ideal for goats and pigs, and the 223 for longer range shooting of rabbits and the 7.62 x 54mm for larger game.

    The heavier bullets of the 7.62 x 39mm make it better against goats and pigs than the 223.

    The 7.62 x 54 is close in power to the 7.62 x 51mm and the ammo is cheaper.

    Nice thread... thanks for posting.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually they sell TOZ rifles here in New Zealand. I think the TOZ 78 is a bolt action .22 rifle and there is semi auto rifle too in .22 calibre that are both updates of older models.

    You are talking about the Toz-78 (bolt action) and Toz-99 (semi auto).
    Great little rifles that are simple, reliable and very accurate for their price. You can find the Toz-78 in virtually every country in the world as a hunting gun, target shooting/plinking gun, cadet training gun etc.

    BTW do I understand correctly that the VPO-301 is a rifle/shotgun combination that you can buy barrels for to allow one weapon to be used as a shotgun and as different calibre rifles?

    Sounds awesome.
    That's how I understand it as well. 223, 308 and 20 gauge.
    Not that it is not in production yet. The final model will be most likely have more calibers/gauges available (if it goes into production).

    Here are your 3 barrel choices;

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:15 am

    Not that it is not in production yet. The final model will be most likely have more calibers/gauges available (if it goes into production).

    The only issue is the price... hopefully if they do get it into production they will make a cheap version too.

    Was just thumbing through a catalog yesterday and it mentioned that there is a Baikal Shotgun model that is one of the few available in 12/89 calibre (ie 12gauge 3 1/2 inch magnum).

    Regarding the TOZ rifles:

    http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/toz78.html

    http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/toz99.html

    and this looks nice, but would prefer it in 7.62 x 54mm calibre

    http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/toz122.html

    The two .22s come in versions threaded for a suppressor, which I am planning to buy at some stage.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 am

    Good stuff, thanks.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:54 am

    Garry, you are a lover of everything that shoots and you are biased towards the ones that have a label "Made in Russia". What Firearm(s)do you have?

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:36 am

    Unfortunately Russian made weapons are still relatively rare here, so my collection of Russian and Soviet weapons is very limited.

    I have about 7 or 8 Mosin Nagant rifles including 1891/30 rifles and 1944 and 1939 carbines.

    Had an SKS but it was Chinese, and my AK is a Chinese Type 56S too.

    I have an old TOZ 17 bolt action .22 with a suppressor fitted and a double barrel 12 gauge Russian shotgun.

    My only other "fun" weapon is my SLR (L1A1 or FN FAL in semi auto only of course).

    On my to buy list however would be almost all the Russian weapons available for sale... though I would need a larger gun cabinet.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:42 am

    GarryB wrote:Unfortunately Russian made weapons are still relatively rare here, so my collection of Russian and Soviet weapons is very limited.

    I have about 7 or 8 Mosin Nagant rifles including 1891/30 rifles and 1944 and 1939 carbines.

    Had an SKS but it was Chinese, and my AK is a Chinese Type 56S too.

    I have an old TOZ 17 bolt action .22 with a suppressor fitted and a double barrel 12 gauge Russian shotgun.

    My only other "fun" weapon is my SLR (L1A1 or FN FAL in semi auto only of course).

    On my to buy list however would be almost all the Russian weapons available for sale... though I would need a larger gun cabinet.

    I did a quick internet search and found out that you have in New Zealand the Tigr...C'mon Garry, sell half of your Mosins and grab yourself that civilian version of the SVD together with a PSO scope. How can you resist that urge?
    Oh, and by the way, Chinese guns have no place in your biased cabinet Laughing

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:18 am

    Actually I can even buy a gold plated AK....

    http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-russain-ak47-gold-plated-xidp211431.html

    or this

    http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x54r-dragunov-scoped-suppressed-package-xidp164701.html

    Of course I have an old 303 Mk4* with a totally rubbish barrel that I am planning to have modified... I am considering getting a new barrel in 7.62 x 39mm calibre and redesigning it to allow it to use AK mags.

    Made by Savage in the US it is fully wooded but as I said the barrel is rubbish.

    Would prefer a Russian light bolt action carbine in 7.62 x 39mm that takes AK mags to be honest.

    Sell Russian Rifles??? Sorry... I don't understand what you mean... :0

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Of course I have an old 303 Mk4* with a totally rubbish barrel that I am planning to have modified... I am considering getting a new barrel in 7.62 x 39mm calibre and redesigning it to allow it to use AK mags.

    Made by Savage in the US it is fully wooded but as I said the barrel is rubbish.

    Would prefer a Russian light bolt action carbine in 7.62 x 39mm that takes AK mags to be honest.

    Sell Russian Rifles??? Sorry... I don't understand what you mean... :0

    There is no 7.62x39 Russian bolt action rifle that takes AK mags.
    If AK mags are a must, get yourself a civilian AK (Saiga).
    If bolt action is a must, get Izhmash's Bars.

    Speaking of Bars, any bolt action centrefire rifle from Izhmash (Bars, Los, Record etc.)are extremely accurate. Their barrels (in any caliber) are made by using the same technology/machinery/tools as the SV-98.
    I can testify that with my Los-7 chambered in .308. It is the most accurate rifle I have (or ever had). Here is a Los-7 similar to the one I have in my arsenal:

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:01 am

    Saiga mags are slightly different from standard AK mags and I am not sure it is compatible.

    I have three 30 round AK mags for my Chinese Type 56S but I can't use them on my rifle because of the laws here.

    I cannot fit a magazine to a centrefire semi automatic rifle that holds or looks like it holds more than 7 rounds. The limit for rimfire rounds is 15.

    The solution is a bolt action rifle that takes AK magazines.

    I realise it might sound strange wanting a 30 round capacity mag on a bolt action rifle but when I am out hunting I don't like carrying ammo in different pockets and in cardboard packets. With a 30 round mag I can load up 25-30 rounds and have all my ammo in the magazine. When I get to where I intend to shoot I can attach the mag to the rifle and when I spot game I can chamber a round ready to fire. If I don't see anything the chamber stays empty and all my ammo remains in the magazine.

    I have 7 shot mags for my AK but they are terrible. Normally with an AK mag you grab the mag with your whole hand and then reach up with your thumb and operate the mag release. Because you are holding the rest of the mag with your whole hand it is easy to rock it forward and clear. With a 7 shot mag it is too short and there is nothing to grab so it becomes a two hand job... one hand to hold the rifle and move the mag release and the other hand to pull the mag clear. PITA.

    The Aussies sell a 303 that looks a bit like a Mk5 jungle carbine that takes AK mags.
    Nice smooth action that I am familiar with but I want a Russian rifle...

    I remember reading about a another multi calibre weapon of Russian origin so I might wait for a bit and see what options become available...

    I enjoy my Mosin Rifles at the moment... Smile

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:39 am

    What I would like to see is the introduction of the 9 x 39mm round as a sporting calibre.

    It shares a shell case with the AK round so a combo rifle in 7.62 x 39mm and 9 x 39mm with just a change of barrel would be a start. The AK ammo is very cheap and has not been experimented with enough.

    The 7.62 x 39mm round has an actual calibre of .311 which is the same as the 303, so any projectiles used by the 303 could also be loaded into the 7.62 x 39mm case. Equally the 7.62 x 25mm Tokarev and 7.62 x 54mm calibre projectiles are also .311 calibre... I would be very interested to see how a 7.62 x 39mm calibre rifle would perform loaded with the 90 grain 311 calibre bullets of the 7.62 x 25mm Tokarev.

    Equally the 203 grain bullets Barnaul are loading in their 7.62 x 54mm ammo would be interesting too... AFAIK the 7.62 x 39mm subsonic ammo has 193 grain bullets so it would be subsonic...

    But instead the 7.62 x 39mm hunting stuff ranges from 122 grain to 125 grain and is fairly boring.

    It is effective on goats and pigs, but too much for rabbits and possums and marginal on deer.

    I would think a short action bolt action rifle could be developed for the x39mm rounds... 7.62, 5.45 and 9... with the latter having a built in suppressor. They could make the weapon very compact and light because of the smaller calibre.

    They would then need two more rifles... one in the even lighter category with .22LR, .22WMR, and .17 calibres plus perhaps a 410 shotgun option... and a heavy for higher impulse rounds like 7.62 x 54mm and 12 and 10 gauge shotgun calibres.

    For export you'd also add western calibres like 6.5mm Grendal and 223 for the x39mm rifle... the light rifle already covers the obvious western rounds and the heavy rifle could have 308 NATO and perhaps 30-06 for sales in the US.

    To further export potential I suppose the lightest rifle could expand into pistol calibres with a centrefire action.

    The advantage of the modular design is that your rifle will never wear out... if you run the barrel over with your car and bend it then buy a new barrel... mass produce the magazines and make a fortune in selling them... $50 for a piece of folded metal that probably cost $5 in materials and labour...

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:44 am

    I should add that while exporting 9 x 39mm ammo might sound strange can I draw your attention to the MTS-558 in post number 4 of this thread that comes in .338LM and also 12.7 x 55mm calibre.

    This is a civilian model in a military round.

    BTW I should add that despite appearances it is a straight pull bolt action weapon... so it is very much like the sniper rifle in Crysis.

    Looks like a real thumper... Smile

    I wonder if my speculation about the 6 x 49mm round is on target and if that round will be exported any time soon?

    It would be pretty neat to buy a bolt action rifle in 6 x 49mm that could shoot out to 1km or more...

    Or even just to add to my bullet collection.

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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:11 am

    Was just looking through this site: http://www.tulatskib.ru/HTML_a/ohota_prod_a.html

    and found the OTs-48 rifle, which appears to be a Mosin Nagant 1891/30 rifle with a modern sporting rifle stock... I am interested!

    They include an advert for the stock for 7,000 rubles which by my calculations works out at about $280 NZ.

    Not sure how much it would cost to ship to NZ but it is well worth looking into.

    It turns it into a handsome looking rifle...

    I wonder if the stock is short enough to allow me to use it for my suppressed 1944 carbine?


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    Re: Civilian Firearms Market

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:54 am

    GarryB wrote:I realise it might sound strange wanting a 30 round capacity mag on a bolt action rifle but when I am out hunting I don't like carrying ammo in different pockets and in cardboard packets. With a 30 round mag I can load up 25-30 rounds and have all my ammo in the magazine. When I get to where I intend to shoot I can attach the mag to the rifle and when I spot game I can chamber a round ready to fire. If I don't see anything the chamber stays empty and all my ammo remains in the magazine.

    Why do you need to carry that much ammo when hunting?

    I remember reading about a another multi calibre weapon of Russian origin so I might wait for a bit and see what options become available...
    The only other multicaliber one I can think of is the Baikal MP-142K (223, 30.06 and 9.3x64. It has been on Baikals catalogue for a couple of years, but I don't think it went into production.

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