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    Military Aviation Industry: News

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    Austin
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:47 pm

    Take Off Magazine New Issue

    http://en.take-off.ru/index.php/component/content/article/45/431

    Austin
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  Austin on Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:28 pm

    Russia & CIS Observer №43 November, 2016

    http://www.ato.ru/files/in_text_pictures/rco/43/Observer-43-Juhai-2016.pdf

    Singular_Transform
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:42 pm

    I spent same time and calculated the capability of the RU aviation industry vs US aviation industry.

    Interesting result.

    The cost of the SU-34 is 1.1 billion rubel , the average yearly mancost is 433860 rubel.
    Means one aircraft needs 2535 manyear to make.

    Cost of the F/A-18 super 70 million $ , average yearly mancost 41625 dollars.

    so the plane cost 1681 manyear to make.

    Means the RU productivity is 66% of the US productivity.

    The above numbers are the contractual batch price for both aircraft divided back to the unit price.

    I think in the SU times the above ratio was 33% ish.


    Means that the military outlay of the RU is 50% of the US military capability.

    The above calculation for China vs usa using the type 55 vs Alan burke gives 55% ratio between the two country.

    Based on the above the Chinese military spending 143% of the US military spending, the Russian 50%.

    At the moment the US enjoy the advantage of the inherited hardware / infrastructure, but this advantage in ten years time disappear .

    kvs
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:02 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:I spent same time and calculated the capability of the RU aviation industry vs US aviation industry.

    Interesting result.

    The cost of the SU-34 is 1.1 billion rubel , the average yearly mancost is 433860 rubel.
    Means one aircraft needs 2535 manyear to make.

    Cost of the F/A-18 super 70 million $ , average yearly mancost 41625 dollars.

    so the plane cost 1681 manyear to make.

    Means the RU productivity is 66% of the US productivity.

    What!? Where is the time variable in this "analysis"? You are dividing the costs by average worker salaries (where did you get the data?)
    and inferring a man-year figure. It ain't that simple. You need to scale by the actual fraction of a year that it takes to make one.


    Singular_Transform
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:28 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:I spent same time and calculated the capability of the RU aviation industry vs US aviation industry.

    Interesting result.

    The cost of the SU-34 is 1.1 billion rubel , the average yearly mancost is 433860 rubel.
    Means one aircraft needs 2535 manyear to make.

    Cost of the F/A-18 super 70 million $ , average yearly mancost 41625 dollars.

    so the plane cost 1681 manyear to make.

    Means the RU productivity is 66% of the US productivity.

    What!? Where is the time variable in this "analysis"? You are dividing the costs by average worker salaries (where did you get the data?)
    and inferring a man-year figure. It ain't that simple. You need to scale by the actual fraction of a year that it takes to make one.


    I get the given year wages data from tradingeconomics.com

    I divided back full orders by unit numbers, and calculated the above data from that.


    What was your expectation ?

    By the GDP exchange rate numbers this should be 10%, by the PPP data it should be around 40-45%, sot this calculation gives more balanced view than anything else.

    miketheterrible
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:17 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:I spent same time and calculated the capability of the RU aviation industry vs US aviation industry.

    Interesting result.

    The cost of the SU-34 is 1.1 billion rubel , the average yearly mancost is 433860 rubel.
    Means one aircraft needs 2535 manyear to make.

    Cost of the F/A-18 super 70 million $ , average yearly mancost 41625 dollars.

    so the plane cost 1681 manyear to make.

    Means the RU productivity is 66% of the US productivity.

    What!?  Where is the time variable in this "analysis"?  You are dividing the costs by average worker salaries (where did you get the data?)
    and inferring a man-year figure.  It ain't that simple.   You need to scale by the actual fraction of a year that it takes to make one.


    I get the given year wages data from tradingeconomics.com

    I divided back full orders by unit numbers, and calculated the above data from that.


    What was your expectation ?

    By the GDP exchange rate numbers this should be 10%, by the PPP data it should be around 40-45%, sot this calculation gives more balanced view than anything else.

    Still doesn't work that way simply because you are probably looking at general and not what the actual costs are. especially for workforce in Russia since there isn't as much accurate data. Also, it differentiates between planes and set of equipment so it is worth looking at how much it costs for other aircrafts in Russia vs that of US and its counterpart (Su-34 doesn't quite equal F-18S/H). Plus contracts are much different regarding the countries and their procurement.

    Singular_Transform
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    Re: Military Aviation Industry: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:46 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Still doesn't work that way simply because you are probably looking at general and not what the actual costs are. especially for workforce in Russia since there isn't as much accurate data. Also, it differentiates between planes and set of equipment so it is worth looking at how much it costs for other aircrafts in Russia vs that of US and its counterpart (Su-34 doesn't quite equal F-18S/H). Plus contracts are much different regarding the countries and their procurement.


    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-navy-seeks-16-more-fa-18-super-hornets-421845/
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/indicators
    1.3 billion $ for 16 F/A-18


    http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig-29smt-fulcrum-multirole-fighter-aircraft/
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages-in-manufacturing
    17 billion RUB for 16 MIG-29 SMT (seems like this cost 1-1.1 billion each)


    With this numbers the required manyears for the F-18 2200 , for the MIG-29 2564.

    Means the efficiency of Russia is 85.7%.

    Interesting is based on exchange rate the mig cheaper by 82%,

    Based on required manhours the MIG is expensive by 17%.

    Of course you can say that the Russian wage statistic bad, but in that case you can expect higher average wages than lower one ( usually if someone cheat with salaries he doing it to pay less tax, not to pay more Very Happy ) , means the real cost of airplanes get closer to each other.



    Of course you can say that one f-18 worth thousand of migs and sukhois : )
    the fact : russia can run the twice as big military as UK + France + Germany together , and half as big as the US : )

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