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    Russian Infantry Training

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 12, 2013 9:49 am

    I believe that their T-55s were seriously outclassed by the Leopard 1 series of tanks of the Bundeswehr, while the T-55s and M60 series tanks were on more equal footing,

    Sorry... what? A KV-1 had thicker frontal armour than a Leopard 1...

    At certain points in time different sides had different advantages... in the 70s I would say the thermal sight advantage of the west was not developed to a point where it would have as much an impact as most westerners seem to think. The advantage of the Soviets is that in almost every conceivable war it is a Soviet attack, which means the low mobility of the super heavy western tanks really counts against them. In the mid to late 1980s the improvements in electronics and armour shifts to the west but not completely, with Soviet tanks enjoying special armoured vehicles and ammo that is keeping pace with western improvements in armour, plus they have the enormous added advantage of the increasing deployment of Mig-29s and Su-27s with high off boresight missiles and helmet mounted sights... which would have been serious to the wests grip of the air... the Soviets could fight without air control... they learnt it and practise it and have their own air defence network. In the west the air defence is largely handled by their air forces.

    I'm not saying the Leopard 2 is better than modern versions of the T-72, but the basic T-72 that the DDR had in the late 1970s and early 1980s would have been easy pickings for the Leopard 2 of that era.

    I can't agree, you make it sound like it would be fought in a flat open desert where the Leopards could see the T-72s from great distances. Lets face it, the East Germans knew the Leopard has good optics so they will use smoke as a matter of course to negate their advantages, and of course use dead ground to get in close. I rather doubt the Leopard II would not do the same to ensure the effectiveness of its ammo.


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    BTRfan
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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  BTRfan on Sun May 12, 2013 6:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    I can't agree, you make it sound like it would be fought in a flat open desert where the Leopards could see the T-72s from great distances. Lets face it, the East Germans knew the Leopard has good optics so they will use smoke as a matter of course to negate their advantages, and of course use dead ground to get in close. I rather doubt the Leopard II would not do the same to ensure the effectiveness of its ammo.


    If I am not mistaken the first several hundred Leopard 2 [initial version] tanks did not have thermal sights due to shortages and the fact that the thermal sights were not ready, but all other Leopard 2s [even the next bach of the initial/first version] had the thermal sights, and the original production run of 200 had the thermal sights put in soon after.

    Thermal sights are not impacted much by smoke, are they?

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Regular on Sun May 12, 2013 11:00 pm

    thermals can see through smoke no problem. Even WP smoke screen can only block vision when smoke is being produced by combustion but it doesn't last long. There is not much You can do to counter flir, anti-thermal covers weren't used back then

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 13, 2013 12:13 pm

    There is not much You can do to counter flir, anti-thermal covers weren't used back then

    The use of dead ground and approaching from behind cover.


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    Russian Army training

    Post  Asf on Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:47 pm

    I'd like to create thread about the Russian Army overall readiness and trainings to unify he information and stop 'conscripts doing nothing' syndrome.

    The first ball is mine:

    51th airbourne regiment, 106th airbourne division,


    A soldier gets 30 rounds an one grenade per exercise. The task of the exercise is to hit 3 targets and throw the grenade up to a 30 meters for given time. Conscripted soldiers as well as contract soldiers are all rated "A" and "B" this time. Exercises on a firing range are conducted 2 times a week for several hours in a full load (it's about 7,5 kg of equipment and ammo plus 4 kg of a weapon).


    Here (in Russian)

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  VladimirSahin on Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:23 pm

    Finally something I can give information or relate too paratrooper

    I wan't to tell about this one exercise we had in 2011 in Pskov, We were given 2 magazines and 1 grenade each (my particular unit), Our objective was to secure a area and hold it for logistics to pass through, We were 6 men inside a BMD-2 and we went onto the road and a simulated bomb went off and the crew of the BMD-2 had to repair their tracks, We were to secure the area as they repair it, So our squad leader ordered the machine gunner to suppress this tree line where "enemies" were.  Once the commander ordered him to stop the crew already "repaired" their tracks. We sat on top this time and we made it to the our area.
    Then a recon unit was to come to our position and give coordinates of the enemy vehicles (cars from junkyard) And the NONA's would shoot at them.  All  targets were destroyed and the logistics passed through.

    This was a small scale drill to test out NONAs, and the logistic trucks. This was in the Pskov base,  The NONAs were from the 1140 Artillery Regiment and I don't remember the recon units regiment, but at the time I was in the 76th Airborne assault division, 104th Airborne Assault regiment.  

    I hope this isn't off topic, But here is just a summary of a small scale military exercise.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:27 am

    Interesting thread... thanks for contributing you two. Smile


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Asf
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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:53 pm

    We were 6 men inside a BMD-2
    Were you trained to operate in two 3-men teams? I've heard it's a standard VDV feature now
    I hope this isn't off topic
    No, it's great

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  medo on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:41 pm

    Any information, how is going on a new training facility building after sanctions from EU and Germany is stopping its building? There was some reports, that Transas will finish it. By original it should be already finished. How much time will Transas need to complete the work?

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  VladimirSahin on Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:24 am

    Asf, We usually operated with one team of 6 and sometimes split up like you said into 2 teams of 3.  It all depended on situation for example if we were to move into a area we would leave one team of 3 behind containing a machine-gunner, A squad leader and sometimes GL. While the other team moves into the area to secure it.  While I'm at it let me tell you a bit more.

    Our training was pretty hard, We wake up  very early and first 5 days it was 3 minutes to dress up when getting ready for day but after that they dropped it to 1 minute and 45 seconds we were to dress up in full uniform.  If we didn't we would get a punch or two or made to do extra labor.  We would run for 3-5 kilometers I don't know why they would increase it from 3 km but they did.

    Our weapons training was one of my favorite,  We were all given AK-74Ms and then single shot targets at 50 to 150 meters(or maybe more but I dont remember) I had pretty good aim hit my target 6 out of 6 (Increase of rounds per shooting were increased the more we got trained).  I was trained to shoot RPG-7, I hit my first shot but missed my second during my first shooting. scratch  

    Training to pack up our parachutes was the most aggravating, We were taught how to make our parachutes perfectly like 2 weeks before our jump, So that by the time we get to the real jump we would perfect our skills.  I have made around 15 jumps all of them in IL-76 except for one in a AN-22.

    I will give more information as you guys ask so feel free to ask any question. thumbsup

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Regular on Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:58 am

    I'm interested in squad leader training You can get in Russian army. How many modules and courses are there long does it take to get it? 
    What about leadership and what qualities are being looked at and how independand SL's are? Where I can read current documentation as I do have hundreds of pages of Lithuanian army one (Rewritten NATO manuals mostly)

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:04 pm

    Training to pack up our parachutes was the most aggravating

    Strange, I've heard, soldiers aren't supposed to pack their own parachutes now.

     ask so feel free to ask any question

    Look, I'm interested in new FOC of parachute company/batallion. What did your company include? Was a heavy weapons squad included?

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:28 pm

    Where I can read current documentation

    Nowhere, most likely, as it has 'for service purpose only' mark, unlike NATO instructions.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:09 pm

     How many modules and courses are there long does it take to get it? 

    Link


    Contract soldier training:

    1 level - basic training

    1 stage - basic combat training (6 weeks)

    2 stage - speciality training (3 - 10 months)

    2 level - squad-level training (at least 3 months)
    Requirements: age, health, educational level, professional level, physical shape, discipline level, at least 1 year of contract service, leadership (must be a psychological requirement)

    3 level - platoon-level NCO training (up to 3 months)
    ect.

    It can be a bit outdated info (seems to be Serdukov's era information - goverment web-pages are all suffer from bad administration)

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  VladimirSahin on Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:12 pm

    Asf,

    My company included a Recon squad, a Heavy Weapons squad, assault squads, and we even had a dedicated sniper squad but I think they were in recon category.  We had a Shoulder Launched AA squad, And a Heavy Anti Tank squad. Keep in mind it has been 2 years since I have finished my service, I may forget some stuff so sorry for any mistakes.

    About the parachutes, We are assigned in groups to make our parachutes while the commander oversees us making it to make sure we dont mess up or just help us make it.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:08 am

    My company included a Recon squad


    Wow, never heard of a company with a recon squad. Good decision imho. Or you meant a recon platoon in your batallion, as


    a Shoulder Launched AA squad, And a Heavy Anti Tank squad

    is obviously a batallion-level assets


    so sorry for any mistakes

    Nevermind

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  VladimirSahin on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:53 pm

    I believe it was in our company, Because the recon squad was stationed with us.  Whatever military drills we did they would follow company commander's orders.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:48 am

    Nice article about the resent Naval Infantry of Pacific Fleet drills with lots of pics here

    Some translations (only the most interesting, sorry):

    Naval Infanrty brigade of Pasific Fleet training took place on Khasan district shores

    2. Firstly Su-24MR tactical recon aircrafts came from the seaside, and an air strike took place on a recon group's call.

    3. The pathfinders landed from 3000 meters using special parachute systems to prepare the landing site for the main force of tactical desant.

    8. Having entered the fire fight they continued the target acquisition mission for the air strikes.

    9. The drills were the final part of the year test for Pacific Fleet naval infantrymen. Previously 'black berets' did some training landings on different training sites. The main feature of this drills was in a combined landing: an air-assault company and a mortar battary landed on the landing site from the above. It was they who took the enemy fire at the first place.

    12. Tactical desant is on the way

    13. First echelon of air-assault naval infantrymen opened fire before they reached the ground

    17. An-26s dropped mortars and mortar ammunition upon the last approach

    21. UAV was used to supervise the situation during trainings

    22. 'Polite people' ( Rolling Eyes )

    24. UAV operator

    25. Mortarmen of the air-assault battalion is ready to open fire on command.

    27. Another feature of the drills was the usage of marine aviation in support of the landing. Ka-52 Alligators were used.

    30. Engineer recon group is going to the shore on landing ships

    33. First echelon of naval infantry is ready for the landing

    34. 'Admiral Nevelskoy' is right after them

    36. Combat engeneers is landing in the spearhead

    38. Shmel-armed troopers is covering their advance

    49. BTR-mounted air-assault company has reformed into the combat formation

    52. 'Nikolai Vilkov' landing ship appeared with the second echelon forces.

    61. BMP-mounted naval infantry is entering the combat.

    62. 'Peresvet' landing ship is ready to land the troops in another bay

    65. Another air-assault company is going by the sea

    78. The drills ended after the sunset

    Colonel Andrei Borodin, chief of the Shore forces of Pacific Fleet: "During the trainings the combat for landing site was shown, it is the most complex part of marine desant operation. Air-assault batallion of 155th brigade as a part of air-sea assault detachment was capturing the landing site. Batallion earned 'good' (e.g. 'B') grade"


    19 ships, 20 airplanes and 5 helicopters took part in the drills.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Regular on Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:28 am

    Thanks for the post Asf. Nice drills Russia is having. Very high level of tactics involved. Really shows how puny infantry is in this terrain. I wish more guided weapons would be involved when it comes to air power. Never seen it being used.
    But I've heard that they are training with dumb ones because smart bomb attack can be simulated by not even having bomb at all. I've been told by one source that AF practices hitting targets on their own cities, factories, bridges and etc.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:28 am

    But I've heard that they are training with dumb ones because smart bomb attack can be simulated by not even having bomb at all. I've been told by one source that AF practices hitting targets on their own cities, factories, bridges and etc.

    With certain upgrades the Su-24 can deliver dumb bombs with the accuracy of guided weapons... the new upgraded aircraft have a bomb aiming marker that shows where any dumb bombs that might be dropped will hit and it is continuously calculated and has reasonably good accuracy as long as there is no return fire.

    When there is return fire obviously there are guided bombs and missiles that will do the same job from much greater stand off distances, but it is like navigation... if you can use a compass and map and a watch to plot a course to find a target and hit it and then fly home then you are well able to perform your mission even if the GLONASS fails.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  Asf on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:25 am

    Some photos of VDV troops from SREM-2014 (Serbia)






    From Twower's blog

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:00 am

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/57274/



    The training center abandoned by Rheinmetall has been completed without them.

    Nice. russia

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  sweartome123 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:37 am

    1. What is the training like for soldiers in the Russian military? How does it compare to US and NATO training?
    2. Is gun safety taught in the Russian military?

    From the hundreds of videos and photographs that I've seen, gun safety in the Russian military is a rare sight. Basic stuff like trigger discipline and muzzle safety is virtually non-existent. Poor gun safety is excessive even among Russia's most capable troops (VDV/Naval Infantry). What does this say about Russian military training in general if its spearhead forces can't even demonstrate the most basic of gun safety? For one, it's extremely dangerous not to practice it. Secondly, it's just flat out embarrassing to see in such a rapidly advancing military. This lax attitude towards firearms safety needs to be fixed.

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:08 am

    Funny... asking questions and then having a rant before you have heard the answers... sounds a little like the answers don't matter to you?

    BTW bad trigger discipline happens everywhere... do you really want us to post western special forces with fingers on triggers with targets not in sight?



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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian Infantry Training

    Post  sweartome123 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:Funny... asking questions and then having a rant before you have heard the answers... sounds a little like the answers don't matter to you?

    BTW bad trigger discipline happens everywhere... do you really want us to post western special forces with fingers on triggers with targets not in sight?


    I'm not ranting. I simply asked two questions and added my thoughts in regards to them.

    "BTW bad trigger discipline happens everywhere... do you really want us to post western special forces with fingers on triggers with targets not in sight?"

    This is irrelevant. I'm talking about gun safety in the Russian military, not anyone else. I don't care what is done or not done in the west.

    It's just bothersome to see such widespread disregard for gun safety at the core of Russia's forces. Gun safety isn't a problem with more elite units like the military police, scouts, and special forces. It's a problem with your standard soldier. With Russia being an increasingly modern and professional military, I just don't understand why poor gun safety is so frequent. Gun safety is a smart measure that helps prevent needless injury or death and therefore needs to taken seriously.

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