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    Russian made Scopes and Optics

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    Vladimir79
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    Russia will produce Thales sights for small arms

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:41 am

    Thales has signed an agreement with Ural Optics for the production of military equipment
    16.07.2010 // 11:13



    YEKATERINBURG, July 16 . (ITAR-TASS ) . The French company Thales , on Thursday as part of the VI International exhibition of technical means " Defence Expo -2010 " , which takes place in the Sverdlovsk region on July 14-17 , has signed an agreement with Ural Optical Mechanical Plant ( Federal State Unitary Enterprise ) on the commencement of military and civil engineering . Said the deputy general director Anatoly UOMZ Sludnyh .

    "Thereafter, the parties will be concluded several contracts , which provides for several areas of cooperation - laser technology in medicine and the national economy, thermal imaging devices for the national economy , opto- electronic systems, sights for small arms. We plan to arrange the delivery of French technology in the Urals, and , conversely , the export of equipment of Russian origin in France , " - explained Sludnyh .

    The exhibition "Defense and Security " held in Nizhny Tagil every two years , alternating with the International exhibition of arms . This year it is attended by over 250 Russian and foreign companies. As part of the exhibition presents more than two thousand full-scale exhibits . To work at the site " Miner " registered more than 200 representatives from 36 countries.

    Thales - the world leader in aviation , aerospace and defense industries , and markets security systems and transportation systems. In 2008, the profit " Thales was 12.7 billion euros . The company employs 68 thousand employees in 50 countries, of which 25 thousand - the engineers and developers.

    http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=86497&cid=25

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:07 am

    Makes Sense.
    If you are spending a large wad of cash on thermal imager production technology from France you might as well use that on as many different platforms and systems as you can.
    Thermal imagers are not cheap, though the best way to make them cheaper is to order them in large blocks.
    Thermal imagers are not weapons in themselves but they add capability to weapons and systems they are attached to. Whether it is rifles or machine guns, or tanks and air defence equipment, thermal sights increase effectiveness by making the system it is added to capable of operating in the dark, in bad weather, or under certain conditions like dust or smoke where normal performance would be severely degraded.
    When used with aircraft in certain types of pods they can combine to change a 20th century recon plane into a 21st century recon plane by replacing wet film systems with digital datalinks able to handle real time still photos and video of the target area, or in the case of the Damocles pod it could simply be fitted to the centreline of a Su-25 to give it the all weather capabilities of the Su-25TM but without the cost in a pod that can be shared amongst many aircraft.
    We plan to arrange the delivery of French technology in the Urals, and , conversely , the export of equipment of Russian origin in France , " - explained Sludnyh .
    So the stuff will be made in Russia, and some of it will be exported back to France, so Thales France can take advantage of lower manufacturing costs in Russia and the Russian factory will likely increase production numbers further, which should make costs lower still.
    No doubt further orders for Thales thermal sights might result in cheaper equipment made in Russia sold by Thales of France to third parties with no doubt Thales benefiting from either lower cost product selling better or they could take a larger cut for profits and offer the customer the same price. I would expect they might do a little of both with a slightly higher profit but also reduced price to consumer.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:13 pm

    Damocles targetting pod costs almost as much as an Su-25. It won't be going on that platform. It is for the new Flankers.

    So it finally comes down to it that all of those thermal rifle sights we have been toughting at the trade shows is not going to be purchased. This is the final nail in the coffin of the domestic design of optics in the Russian Federation. France now monopolises this industry.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:09 am

    I think you are missing the point of such pods.
    Without the pod you can send a dumb daylight only Su-25 with largely unguided weapons.
    You will need to send in quite a few, with some attacking the primary targets while others fly above and try to locate where the ground fire is coming from and neutralise it.
    They will all suffer if the enemy is well equipped with MANPADs.
    With a pod you can send in half as many Su-25s to engage the target and hit that target with guided weapons even those of the previous generation like Kh-25 and Kh-29 will allow standoff ranges of 10km which means that those Su-25s can be out of range of MANPADS near the target.
    It also means they can attack at night which also reduces the effectiveness of ground fire.
    The aircraft supporting them can still do so looking for enemy radars and using ARMs to protect the group and rocket pod loaded decoy rockets in case of MANPADs attack.
    The point is that you can have dumb cheap aircraft that you will need lots of, or you can spend a fortune on the TM upgrade, or you can spend less and buy a dozen pods for use within one district to share between 100 aircraft and make them all potentially as capable as an expensive upgraded all weather aircraft when in fact they can all be the cheap upgraded aircraft SM.
    The new Flankers probably wont need Damocles pods because they already have most of the functions offered by the pod built in. The new Mig-35s certainly already do.
    I would think such pods would be most used on strike and CAS missions which should mean Su-34 and Su-25s and Su-24s will be using them. Perhaps even Tu-22M3s too if they can sort out the engine issues. (For the latter I think the Tu-160 could do with a brand new engine and that it should be designed so that it can be used in both the Tu-160 and Tu-22M3 based on the engine technology that has been developed since their engines entered service. Both engines are still impressive even now for power and fuel efficiency.)
    So it finally comes down to it that all of those thermal rifle sights we have been toughting at the trade shows is not going to be purchased. This is the final nail in the coffin of the domestic design of optics in the Russian Federation. France now monopolises this industry.
    I disagree. Several examples of the SPARROW AAM were captured in Vietnam and a Soviet variant was developed by a Soviet design bureau. When it came time to compete to make the new AAM for the Mig-23 the AA-4 Awl was competing with the R-23 and lost. It just happened that the R-23 was superior to the replica of the SPARROW. The R-23 entered service as the AA-7 Apex and was later improved as the R-24 with improved performance. When an early model Sidewinder was captured in China things were different. The Soviet equivelent was the AA-1 Alkali and it was a complex missile with a tail cone for a datalink to the launch aircraft to guide it and side angled rocket motor exhausts and inside was a mess of servo motors and electronics and explosive and propellent all carefully balanced so the centre of gravity didn't effect manouver capability. The Sidewinder on the other hand was modular and basic. You could seperate all the components and from the front you had the seeker, then the servo motors for the nose canards, then the warhead, and then the rocket body then at the rear you had large wings and rollerons and at the very rear the engine exhaust.
    The rocket wasn't more powerful than Soviet rockets and the IR seeker wasn't better than Soviet IR seekers but the whole concept of breaking all the parts down to seperate modules made production and maintainence much simpler and easier. If a sidewinder had a faulty rocket motor you just popped the other bits off and attached them to a new motor. With an AA-1 you pretty much threw away the missile because the complexity of removing the rocket and replacing it meant completely taking it apart.
    The reason the Soviets copied the Sidewinder was because it was so simple it was a great new way to make missiles. They new that the time it would take for the new modular design to filter through the design bureaus it would be some time before they got new weapons based on this design into service, so they copied the basic design and used Soviet components where possible. They used a Soviet seeker, a Soviet rocket motor, but they found the roll stabilisation system used by the Americans was much smaller and simpler than their own so they copied that too.
    The result was a foreign design in Soviet service much quicker than an equivelent Soviet design could have been developed.
    Strangely though the AA-1 design didn't die as the Kh-66 and Kh-25 series and even the AA-6 Acrid seem to have that external shape and design setup. Their need for a rear facing datalink pod required side angled rocket exhausts for propulsion.
    What am I dribbling on about?
    Well Russia has gotten a hold of some more western technology in the form of French thermal sights and found they are superior to sights made domestically. Not really a surprise considering the circumstances.
    The result is that a Russian company will now licence produce French designed thermal sights for a range of uses from aircraft, to tanks, to rifles and small arms. Note a thermal sight on an Igla makes it a very deadly weapon as many aircraft operate at night to reduce vulnerability (esp helos).
    As mentioned in the article above that licence production might even include production of material for export to France.
    This is good for Thales of France because lower production costs mean the opportunity to sell more.
    This is good for the Russian Armed forces because they get a better quality product.
    This is good for Russian MIC because they are getting factories with state of the art tooling and relatively new designs to build and work on, as well as the opportunity to work on new developments with Thales too.
    Look at the Rolls Royce Nene and Derwent engines that were sold to the Soviet Union.
    The first "licence produced versions" were similar, but later models got various improvements and changes and became Soviet engines.
    You say France now monopolises the Russian MIC industry with regard to thermal sights.
    Once production has started if a new government in France takes power can they take control and stop production of thermal sights in Russia?
    I would say no. And with no for the answer the next question is why should it matter that you currently get your new thermals from one source?
    My answer to that is that it would only matter if there was another source where you could get a better quality sight for less cost, and I don't think that is the case.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:09 am

    GarryB wrote:I think you are missing the point of such pods.

    It isn't me missing the point of such pods. It is you missing the point of cost and its use. Su-25s are a low value tactical asset. The pods are very expensive and being made for our high asset bombers and strike aircraft. That is its purpose. The Su-25 flies close enough that it doesn't need a high end FLIR pod. The bombers want the pod for stand-off range, the Su-25 can't even carry the new missiles this pod will be slaved to.

    I disagree. Several examples of the SPARROW AAM were captured in Vietnam and a Soviet variant was developed by a Soviet design bureau. When it came time to compete to make the new AAM for the Mig-23 the AA-4 Awl was competing with the R-23 and lost.

    The R-23 never had to compete against Western items so the comparison is irrelevant. Russian producers are not competing against one another in a closed market anymore. They are competing against France and their tech is a generation ahead. By the time we start producing 3rd gen optics of our own, they will be on to the 4th. It is exactly the same trap India has gotten itself into.

    What am I dribbling on about?

    You say France now monopolises the Russian MIC industry with regard to thermal sights.
    Once production has started if a new government in France takes power can they take control and stop production of thermal sights in Russia?
    I would say no. And with no for the answer the next question is why should it matter that you currently get your new thermals from one source?
    My answer to that is that it would only matter if there was another source where you could get a better quality sight for less cost, and I don't think that is the case.

    The answer to the question is of course they can. License production does not mean we make all of the components. We only make the cheap stuff while French factories make the expensive guts of the equipment. It is the same for all license production deals. Unless you buy the patent to an item you will not get the ToT needed to make it. So, we are left with reliance on the French. I do not believe they will cut us off unless we go to war with NATO which is not likely to happen. The worry is becoming like India where 70-80% of all equipment is imported. Our airlines and automotive already do that, defence is just the last step.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:12 am

    OK, let me rephrase what I said.
    You are missing the potential these pods offer.
    UAVs and UCAVs are all the rage these days because they offer sighting and attack options without risking a pilot.
    You are spending billions of dollars upgrading your armed forces... I presume you want to be able to fight 24/7?
    That would make the purchace and licence production of thermal imagers make good sense.
    Your current CAS is a daylight only aircraft... you are spending enormous amounts on making your helicopters night capable, how effectively will a daylight only Su-25 work with them?
    The attempt to make it day and night capable was the Su-25TM version which was deemed too expensive so the cheaper less extensive Su-25SM was accepted.
    Rather than spending hundreds of millions of dollars updating the entire Su-25 fleet to enable all weather capability you can buy 50 or so Damocles pods that can be used when needed. Not every aircraft needs a pod, and most of the time they may not need it at all. A cheaper simpler pod might be better suited, but the advantage such weapon pods offer is hard to ignore.
    The Su-25 can use laser and TV guided weapons already and it would not be too hard to integrate satellite guided bombs and rockets as low cost weapons against point targets found during missions.
    A ground controller could give the coordinates of the target holding up the (ground) attack and an Su-25 can send those coordinates to a missile under its wing... there are satellite guided versions of the Kh-38 so a GLONASS guided Kh-25 shouldn't be too hard. Once the pilot is within 10km or so he can launch the weapon and leave. Any MANPADS near the target will be ineffectual.
    To deploy MANPADs to defend a target you would have to anticipate the direction of attack and deploy 10 or more kms from the target... not easy.
    My point is that a Damocles pod is a force multiplier and only using it with Su-34s is like only using inflight refuelling tankers for your long range bombers.
    You are not going to have as many aircraft in the future so you are going to have to make the existing aircraft more capable along with your forces more mobile.
    Putting a Damocles pod on an Su-25 is cheaper than upgrading the Su-25 to do the job it needs to be able to do, and that is fight in all conditions.
    The bombers want the pod for stand-off range, the Su-25 can't even carry the new missiles this pod will be slaved to.
    I would think that eventually the Su-25 might get Hermes in the same way that the Su-25TM got Vikhr with 8 missiles per pylon for two pylons. As such the ability to spot targets 20km away or further would actually be quite useful.
    You are trying to westernise and upgrade your forces, so look at the A-10 getting upgrades and targetting pods and carrying lots of missiles like Maverick and Hellfire etc.
    They are competing against France and their tech is a generation ahead. By the time we start producing 3rd gen optics of our own, they will be on to the 4th.
    Your specialists have been twiddling their thumbs doing very little but talking for the last two decades. Now there is money they can start pushing the envelope themselves and learning for themselves.
    There is no reason why Russia should not be at the forefront of technology in this area in 5 years time.
    If France is a generation ahead then Russian specialists can use that to foresee the future. If the next generation seems to offer a leap in performance then skip this generation and start working on the next.
    Use French thermal technology now and work on new stuff.
    If I was designing a rifle I wouldn't start with a tube with one end blocked off with a touch hole drilled in the side. Your MIC won't either.
    The answer to the question is of course they can. License production does not mean we make all of the components. We only make the cheap stuff while French factories make the expensive guts of the equipment. It is the same for all license production deals. Unless you buy the patent to an item you will not get the ToT needed to make it. So, we are left with reliance on the French.
    Licence assembly means you put together components built elsewhere. Licence production means you build it yourself. They wouldn't have taken this long if it was just an assembly plant.
    Licence production is like Christies tank that was licence produced in the Soviet Union during the 1930s. They ended up changing it into the BT series tanks. They had to modify it to scale it up to use on the T-34, which they could do because they had a licence to produce using the design owned by Christie.
    The worry is becoming like India where 70-80% of all equipment is imported. Our airlines and automotive already do that, defence is just the last step.
    Ural optics has this contract to make thermal equipment for the Russian military market. During Soviet times the contract probably would have gone to a company in Belarus.
    I don't know of any country that designs all of its own stuff.
    The US doesn't even come close... The Abrams tank has British armour, a Geman gun, a Belgian coaxial machinegun. The US soldier has a Belgian side arm, a European light rocket launcher (AT4), and the US Marines are getting a new rifle from H&K I believe.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:50 pm

    There are far cheaper ways to make an Su-25 available for night attack than adding a targeting pod that costs about the same as the plane. Night vision HUD is what many currently use and is good enough for the strafing runs Su-25s are best at. There is a limit to how many all weather PG bombers we are going to have and it isn't going to be on something that cheap. Using the Su-25 as a recon tool is certainly not the goal, the goal is to have more UAVs. For the price of one Damocles you could buy two MALE UAVs with thier own laser designators. I would rather have a long loitering UAV targeting for the Su-25 than the Su-25 doing it itself.

    License production for this product does not include design engineering information and critical materials production. That is kept in France just as all deals are from the West. Copying Christie's design could have been done in a machine shop by any inventive person, it was not that complicated. Things are different today.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:21 am

    The cost in a Damocles pod is not the GPS receiver, it is the night vision equipment and long range zooming optics.
    To get something comparable to display a similar view in an Su-25s HUD (which would be like flying looking through a straw) would not be that much cheaper.
    A cheaper solution would probably be Sapsan or something.
    The real solution for Su-25TM was Shkval-M.
    The problem is that such an optronic system is not cheap and many operations simply don't require that level of performance.
    The Russian Armed forces already voted with their wallets by going for the Su-25SM instead of the TM, and went for a podded radar under the belly to achieve all weather day and night performance.
    My idea is to take the Kopyo radar from the belly position (which restricts its field of regard) to the nose position and replace the optics port in the nose (mostly laser range finder, marked target seeker, laser target designator port). This means it can spot moving targets at night but it can't use laser guided munitions except as a weapon carrier. Now if you want to use UAVs to mark targets that is fine but sometimes the Su-25 will need that capability itself and when it does a Sapsan pod or more expensive and more capable Damocles pod can be fitted to some aircraft in the belly position where its view up is not important.
    The radar would also make the aircraft more versatile and smaller airforces could use it as a small fighter/patrol aircraft.
    For the Su-34 I have heard rumours of a pod called Solluks.
    Have you heard anything about that?
    Of course there has also been talk of a pod called Platan, but that is built in and is not all weather capable.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:44 am

    Russia to start production of French’s licensed thermal imaging cameras for T-90 tanks
    Posted by ThunderBolt on May 21st, 2010

    MOSCOW,, Russia will launch in July the licensed production of thermal imagers developed by a French firm as part of efforts to gain access to advanced foreign technologies, a Russian daily said on Friday.

    A plant in the city of Vologda in central Russia will assemble the Thales-developed Catherine FC thermal imaging cameras for T-90 tanks in service with the Russian army.

    “It is not a simple knock down assembly. We use Russian-made components to assemble the control system. After 2012 we will start using Russian optics and mechanics on these devices,” the Gazeta newspaper quoted the plant’s general director Alexander Korshunov as saying.

    Localized production will allow Russia to reduce production and maintenance costs by at least 5-10% and manufacture thermal imagers for civilian purposes in the future.

    Thermal imagers could be used for monitoring the efficiency of thermal insulation and detection of heat leaks, among other applications.

    Russia might only be able to export thermal imagers produced at its plant with the permission of the French authorities. The list of potential customers will exclude so-called rogue states such as Iran. (RIA Novosti)

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Kysusha on Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:49 pm

    My concern is the increasing reliance of Russia on “foreign” technology! This has to be at the detriment of domestic industry and research.

    There is a steadily growing reliance on French armament factories – including naval gear. I suspect that this is linked to the expansion of Russian interests in the French Energy sector – but for whatever reason – it has to be to the longer term detriment of Russian defence contractors.

    I witnessed the almost demise of MOLOT last year and I see other factories are seriously struggling to remain viable, especially against a resurgent Chinese Armament industry who’s workers are paid a bowl of rice a day.

    Russia had the capability, it must resurrect that capability and not only protect it but advance it. Western Israeli backed industries are infiltrating the market with remarkable success.

    Вставай, Россия


    Last edited by Kysusha on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:59 am

    Thales are showing this Russian company how to make Catherine Thermal imagers.

    It is costing money, but the result is a huge step up for Russia.

    Remember a lot of Soviet optical devices were not made in Russia so now Russia will be making a thermal imager of a very high standard and they can take the knowledge they gain and the money they earn from production for their own R&D.

    After going 20 years without sales of products and without proper funding of course they are at an enormous disadvantage to the world standard in any technology level.

    This isn't the first time they solved technology gaps with licences to produce foreign items... the Russian Maxim M1910 machine gun is a Maxim machine gun. Before that they had bought the Gatling gun design too. The Nagant Revolver was designed by Nagant... a Belgian. The jet engines they used in the immediate post WWII period were British... the Nene and the Derwent. The point is that in general they took those designs into use and absorbed the lessons and started creating on their own.
    They didn't get hooked on British engine technology, though they didn't ignore it either. There was no Russian replacement for the Nagant revolver till the 1930s though Broomhandle Mauser pistols were very popular.
    The replacement pistol was based on the Browning swinging link design but had a number of things that made it unique. First and foremost it had no manual safety which was justified by the fact that the Nagant didn't have a safety either. The hammer mechanism was a single block component that could be removed as one unit and the lug on the end of the barrel that was part of the swinging link operating mechanism was a complete ring around the barrel which could be machined on the lathe and needed no further finishing which made it simpler and cheaper to make than the original.
    Most importantly there were other pistols competing with the TT-30 and later improved TT-33 but the pistol based on Brownings design won and that is the pistol that went into production.

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    Russian Optics

    Post  IronsightSniper on Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:25 am

    I realized today I don't know too much in this regards. I know that the T-90 uses THALES optics, and that the OLS-30 is a nice IRST but that's about it. I'd like to know the specs on most of this stuff, including the magnifying powers of designated marksmen optics. I read that the POS telescopic sight for the SVD had a magnifying power of 4x, which is awefully low. If I was wrong on that, just more proof for this thread. I want dat info.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:41 am

    It is an embarrassing topic for Russia. UOMZ can't make optics for shit, so they buy them from France. Thales pretty much dominates the industry here and anything that isn't Thales, will soon be.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:55 am

    Traditionally the optics for Soviet sights came from belarus and other soviet states.

    Cooperation with western companies should improve standard of optics, but in my experience Russian sights are as good as any american brand sight I have owned. Note American brand optics use Japanese lenses, while most european optics use German optics.
    As a rule of thumb if the lenses are made in the west anywhere other than Japan or West Germany they they are probably crap.
    Lots of Soviet stuff was good but simple...

    The Scope for the SVD had a magnification power of 4 because the rifle is normally used only to about 600m or so and were also intended to be used in low light so high magnification was seen as counter productive.
    Currently there is a 3-9 power variable scope called Giperon or something. Don't know whether it is being issued or just for export.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  IronsightSniper on Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:53 am

    So what would the specs be for the day/night scopes of Russia's purpose built sniper rifle(can't remember the name, but Vladimir Putin defended journalists with one).

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:37 pm

    The Russians have a range of sniper rifles.

    The SVD tends to have the standard PSO-1 or the 1PN59 Giperon (3-10 power) but it can also use the 1PN93-4 which is a third gen II nightscope.

    There is also the SV-99 in .22lr sniper rifle for built up urban areas, the SV-98 in 7.62 x 54R bolt action for up to 1,000m, various 9 x 39mm suppressed rifles like the VSS and the VSK 94 and of course for real accuracy and long range there is the Lobaev SVL which would be made to order rather than mass produced and issued in large numbers like the SVD, SVDS, VSS, SV-98 etc etc.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  IronsightSniper on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:37 pm

    Yeah, I said Purpose built for a reason, the SVD is a designated marksmen weapon, but now that you've mentioned it, I'm sure it's the Sv-98. Specs on it's sights?

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:12 am

    I have read that its sight is proving rather unpopular, and the rifle is far too expensive, though it is certainly accurate enough.


    http://izhevsk.club.guns.ru/eng/sv-98.html

    This is an old website that has been moved and the pictures don't seem to work properly because of this but it has information like:

    SV-98 is equipped with a new stronger PKS-07 optic scope, with magnification factor of x7.

    Here is a web page with info:

    http://www.gunscollecting.com/english/scopes/pks-07-collimating-sight/

    It is used on several Russian rifles for day use.
    For night use most of those same rifles use the PKN-03

    http://www.minprom.gov.by/images/products/309208.jpg

    These are both scopes from Belarus:

    http://diaproektor-eng.clan.su/



    Note the club guns webpage also mentions the SV-98 is available in 7.62 x 54 Russian, 7.62 x 51mm NATO, and they were planning on a 338 Lapua magnum model too.

    If you are interested in long range shooting I believe they have a scope for their 50 cal (that is Soviet 50 cal or 12.7 x 108mm, not US 50 cal or 12.7 x 99mm) that is x12 power magnification.
    It is called the POS 12 x 50 and the night equivelent is the PKN-05.


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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:13 am

    If you are interested in Russian optics companies then try looking at these pages:

    http://www.tochpribor.com/product.php?idProduct=109

    (note includes built in laser range finder and ballistic computer that generates an aimpoint (the plus symbol) in the sight based on ammo type and range to the target entered by laser rangefinder).

    http://www.npzoptics.ru/catalog/dnevnye_pricely/

    http://www.katod-nightvision.com/night-vision-devices.php?ID=110

    http://www.nightvision.ru/eng/products/

    http://www.ckb-photon.ru/landforces/nightvision.htm

    http://www.vomz.ru/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=8&lang=en

    http://www.cyclone-jsc.ru/goshawk.html

    Now please note I have not bought any of these devices and have no idea of their performance (the sights or the companies).
    They are just sites I have found over time with things that interest me.

    From my reading of various forums I have the impression that the Dedal scopes are pretty good quality, though they are not cheap.

    (note http://www.nightvision.ru/eng/products/ is Dedal.)

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  IronsightSniper on Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:49 am

    Vlad(or anyone that reads Russian), could you please translate the first link on Garry's second post? Sight system looks similar in asthetics and functions to the OICW's sights.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:15 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:Vlad(or anyone that reads Russian), could you please translate the first link on Garry's second post? Sight system looks similar in asthetics and functions to the OICW's sights.
    It means precise machine, so its the optics precision.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:50 am

    If you want the whole page translated here is Babels attempt:

    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tochpribor.com%2Fproduct.php%3FidProduct%3D109&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

    Note it doesn't translate the text in the pictures and what it says still needs a little translation.

    For example where it says
    Sight has one or several those established ballastician, switched by the user (types of those installed ballastician they are determined with the order), and also it makes it possible to program ballistics according to the results of shooting to 3 different distances.

    This means that you can shoot to three different distances (ie perhaps 50m, 150m and 300m) and you can program where your rounds hit and it can use that to determine the trajectory of the round so you can use it with any calibre rifle. It will likely come preprogrammed with Russian calibres and possibly also NATO calibres too.


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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  IronsightSniper on Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:21 pm

    So it's basically the sight from the XM29 OICW and the failure that it brought along. Interesting. Even more so if Russia adapts that sight unlike how we canceled it.

    In any case, I'm starting to notice that most Russian night optics are of the Gen II class, would this be true? Also, how long would you estimate it be the time from now till they fully integrate Gen III or Gen IV class Night vision into their forces?

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:01 pm

    Whether NVD or IR, they do not go past 2nd generation. NVD never really hit the troops in any numbers to begin with. Some squad leaders had binoculars, but the nv scopes were too blurry to make out targets at range. I would have been happy with an NV monocle so I didn't trip in the forest but couldn't get that. Russian Army today has little capability to fight at night unless they launch illumination flares.

    As far as the future of light intensification, it is pretty much dead except for navigation monocles. The French systems have thermal devices for every soldier whether it be scope or binoculars. Driver scopes are even thermal much less FC and surveillance. As we test FELIN, we will want the same capabilities as we cannot produce domestic analogs of 3rd gen IR.

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    Re: Russian made Scopes and Optics

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:21 am

    The future of Image intensification will probably be with QWIP technology.

    Very simply if you think of it as a CCD camera chip with a big square array of light sensitive elements.
    The advantage is that these elements can be sensitive to a wider range of the light spectrum than most CCD cameras.

    If you have a digital camera then you actually have a basic first gen night vision device. Turn your camera on (digital video, or digital still camera) and look through the viewfinder at your TV remote control and push a button on the remote with the end you point at the TV pointed at the camera lens. You can see the flashing IR light in the remote because the light sensitive elements in the CCD chip are sensitive to normal light and IR light.

    A QWIP chip could be made that is sensitive to normal light and short, medium, and long IR wave light, and also to Ultraviolet light too. On a clear night with no moon there is actually a lot of UV light coming from the sky that III gen image intensification sights take advantage of.
    With a control chip the results from a QWIP chip can be managed so the sight can be used during the day using normal light without blooming like a IIIrd gen system does in urban areas. (IV gen solves this problem and can be used in urban areas to see in dark spaces even when there are lights around.)

    There is also digital night vision that is very similar but uses a CCD type chip to pick up normal light and a computer chip to boost the signal in low light levels. Not as good as III gen Image intensification but much cheaper and longer lasting etc.

    Regarding thermal sights the better quality models are impressive but target recognition has been a problem in the past.
    A good digital TV backup system that mixes the signals to give a more detailed image is what most countries are going for now.

    For example the sensors on the T-95 were supposed to combine a wide range of electro optical and other sensors including long, medium, and short wave IR (Long wave IR being good for detecting cold objects like an aircraft at 10,000m (30,000ft) where the air temperature is about -60 degrees C) as well as IRST and CM and MMW radar sensors. CM wave radar is good for tracking air targets, while MMW is good for ground targets and close in aerial targets because it is tough to jam. Lidar is also mentioned, which is a laser radar that uses a laser light instead of a radio beam to scan. It has uses against enemy optics including sniper scopes and the optics of incoming missiles. Such a system makes a dazzler possible and even a dedicated optics jamming system.
    The information I have is that these sensors (which other tanks do have) were actually combined to generate a more useful image for the crew.
    For instance a simple digital day image would not reveal a well camouflaged tank, but adding short wave IR image to the DTV image would reveal the heat of the tank through the camouflage.

    Obviously such systems can be defeated with IR camouflage skirts like Nadkidka etc... but the potential is interesting.

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