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    B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

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    JPJ
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    B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  JPJ on Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:21 am

    Hi. I suspect that construction of B2 was stopped because it cant acomplish its mision of locate movile ICBM and survive in the soviet/Russian airspace. Are there some info about the razon of cancelled  B2 programe? The official version is that it was to much expensive and with the end of cold war, no more necessary. Sorry for my english

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:46 am

    JPJ wrote:Hi. I suspect that construction of B2 was stopped because it cant acomplish its mision of locate movile ICBM and survive in the soviet/Russian airspace. Are there some info about the razon of cancelled  B2 programe? The official version is that it was to much expensive and with the end of cold war, no more necessary. Sorry for my english
    Exactly like you said, it was a waste of money and didn't have any purpose... They could have built more and even upgraded them, but there was no reason to do so.

    I doubt it would survive long in Russian airspace, especially with the large number of stealth-defeating L/S-band radar systems. They would be better off trying to locate mobile ICBM's via satellite (which is a pain and isn't *that* feasible) and trying to hit them with missiles of some sort. Any large air target will get decimated, probably before it even flies over land... - Assuming defenses are active and there are naval assets in the area.

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:05 am

    The US had total air superiority over Iraq and had no interference with its satellite coverage of that area during Desert Storm and didn't manage to kill one scud launcher before it fired its missile.

    Lots more places in Russia to hide, and less access to such areas for all US aircraft.

    I remember before Desert Storm they constantly talked about the B-2s ability to hunt down truck mounted ICBMs and kill them before they were a problem... after DS they stopped mentioning that capability.

    Of course most of the systems and equipment that would make the B-2 much more vulnerable has only entered service this century, and adapting the B-2 to be a stand off cruise missile carrier would make it more effective... but at the end of the day it is a very expensive cruise missile carrier... and low altitude penetration of enemy air space would take a serious toll on air frame life and operational range.


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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  JPJ on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:50 pm

    Thanks. I heard that VHF band radars aren`t useful against B2. Was the B2 capable of survive into the soviet/Russian airspace before the appearance of S 400? Have the russian some study about that?

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:51 am

    The B-2 would likely not be vulnerable to any individual radar, though a VHF radar would have the best chance of detecting it... previously they were only early warning radars because their precision in tracking the target was low... they just detected the presence and general direction of the target.

    In an Integrated Air Defence system as used in Russian airspace however you will have dozens of radars scanning and hundreds of radars just listening... it is not an accident that the B-2 crews now train for low level penetration...


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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  ATošić on Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:16 am

    GarryB wrote:The B-2 would likely not be vulnerable to any individual radar, though a VHF radar would have the best chance of detecting it... previously they were only early warning radars because their precision in tracking the target was low... they just detected the presence and general direction of the target.

    In an Integrated Air Defence system as used in Russian airspace however you will have dozens of radars scanning and hundreds of radars just listening... it is not an accident that the B-2 crews now train for low level penetration...

    Correct ! Moreover, Russian satellites would have picked up the B-2 the moment it takes off from the US.

    Stealth aircraft are of no use against countries like Russia, US or China who maintain an extensive satellite network.

    Against third world states like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya feel free to use stealth aircraft.

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:10 am

    The fact that there are not that many of them and they are not that fast also counts against them.

    One of the likely main reasons the PAK DA will be subsonic is to reduce costs so it can rapidly replace the bears and blackjacks currently in service and be produced in significant numbers.

    In many ways they are making a stealthy Bear that will likely be able to launch stealthy subsonic cruise missiles and also hypersonic cruise missiles from very long range (5-8,000km) from their targets.

    they could approach various launch areas from various directions making the problem of interception insurmountable for just 188 F-22s.

    To be honest I would prefer a tailed flying wing with supercruise capabilities as such technology would be useful for civilian aircraft over Russia... cutting down flight times.

    It would not surprise me to find out that long range radars used to detect incoming missiles could also detect B-2s as well.


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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  acatomic on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:45 pm

    JPJ wrote:Hi. I suspect that construction of B2 was stopped because it cant acomplish its mision of locate movile ICBM and survive in the soviet/Russian airspace. Are there some info about the razon of cancelled  B2 programe? The official version is that it was to much expensive and with the end of cold war, no more necessary. Sorry for my english

    Mig-31 with Zaslon is the reason why Wink

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  Mike E on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:10 pm

    acatomic wrote:
    JPJ wrote:Hi. I suspect that construction of B2 was stopped because it cant acomplish its mision of locate movile ICBM and survive in the soviet/Russian airspace. Are there some info about the razon of cancelled  B2 programe? The official version is that it was to much expensive and with the end of cold war, no more necessary. Sorry for my english

    Mig-31 with Zaslon is the reason why Wink
    Not exactly, but it could have been a factor.

    As stated earlier, it was an expensive boondoggle with no clear purpose, much like a lot of US projects... When the CCCP "transformed into" the Russian Federation, the US saw no reason to continue buying such a waste of money. 

    Plus, then and now, it could be detected and shot down relatively easy. Obviously it couldn't have fighter support, which would expose it, and without one it is extremely vulnerable to other aircraft. 

    ATošić hit the nail on the head when he said "Against third world states like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya feel free to use stealth aircraft.". He is absolutely correct, it can only really be used against countries that cannot shot it down. The US doesn't want to lose a B-2, not only does it cost them a boat load of $, but it also degrades the apparent "show of force" that the B-2 creates.


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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:30 am

    Mike E wrote:

    ATošić hit the nail on the head when he said "Against third world states like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya feel free to use stealth aircraft.". He is absolutely correct, it can only really be used against countries that cannot shot it down. The US doesn't want to lose a B-2, not only does it cost them a boat load of $, but it also degrades the apparent "show of force" that the B-2 creates.


    The problem is that it is not cost-effective, I mean a tiger do not need to use 100% strength to catch a mouse. Superpowers like U.S. do not need to use state-of-the-art and super-expensive weapons to deal with small countries.

    As the combined defense systems of U.S. and its competitiors are more and more capable, "the Spirit" seems to have spiritual role at most.

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:44 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Mike E wrote:

    ATošić hit the nail on the head when he said "Against third world states like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya feel free to use stealth aircraft.". He is absolutely correct, it can only really be used against countries that cannot shot it down. The US doesn't want to lose a B-2, not only does it cost them a boat load of $, but it also degrades the apparent "show of force" that the B-2 creates.




    The problem is that it is not cost-effective, I mean a tiger do not need to use 100% strength to catch a mouse. Superpowers like U.S. do not need to use state-of-the-art and super-expensive weapons to deal with small countries.

    As the combined defense systems of U.S. and its competitiors are more and more capable, "the Spirit" seems to have spiritual role at most.

    True... It isn't cost-effective at all, in fact, it is quite the opposite. That plus the fact that it cannot be used against "threats" (that's what they'd like us to believe) such as Russia and even China (according to US MSM). The B-1 and even B-52 is adequate for bombing those tiny countries subject to the wrath of the US, and the US uses wild-weasel like aircraft before any bombers are sent in anyway! - Which makes me question why they ever built it at all, during the CCCP days the US had the same aircraft that would destroy SAM sites, not like that would work anyway!

    That is a funny way of putting it, but you are correct... It is (like so many other US weapons) a "show-of-force" and not much more. The perfect propaganda piece, Hitler and Goebbels even had their own equivalents!

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 am

    It's not like these things are completely bullshit, it just in the days of Auld Lang Syne people expected these behemoths can penetrated deep into the enemy rear and lay waste to the industrial infrastructure, but with the rise of advaced AA systems and long range strategic missles, the old models became quickly obsolete in front of the storms of new techs.

    But propaganda machines feel the need to continue to praised the old giants and do not let the old men retire. So that they can create a sense of safety amongst the public and they can use that to threaten the potential rivals. The problem is that, sometimes propaganda can go back to harm the very ones who create it.

    Propaganda won't works against people who have good understanding of the issues, but these people are the minority. Most of the humans either do not have enough time to dig in the issues which are not related to them, or either do not have a chance to access into reliable info, or either are being brainwashed from time to time and lost the habit of using brains.

    (For me I do not belong to the minority... yet, but I am lucky have the chance of meeting the minorities.)

    With a' this an a' that I wonder what is the next generation of stealth technology and at what extend the strategic missiles can supplement the strategic bombers ?

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:06 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:It's not like these things are completely bullshit, it just in the days of Auld Lang Syne people expected these behemoths can penetrated deep into the enemy rear and lay waste to the industrial infrastructure, but with the rise of advaced AA systems and long range strategic missles, the old models became quickly obsolete in front of the storms of new techs.

    But propaganda machines feel the need to continue to praised the old giants and do not let the old men retire. So that they can create a sense of safety amongst the public and they can use that to threaten the potential rivals. The problem is that, sometimes propaganda can go back to harm the very ones who create it.

    Propaganda won't works against people who have good understanding of the issues, but these people are the minority. Most of the humans either do not have enough time to dig in the issues which are not related to them, or either do not have a chance to access into reliable info, or either are being brainwashed from time to time and lost the habit of using brains.

    (For me I do not belong to the minority... yet, but I am lucky have the chance of meeting the minorities.)

    With a' this an a' that I wonder what is the next generation of stealth technology and at what extend the strategic missiles can supplement the strategic bombers ?
    Of course not, but they are way too expensive and they have no clear mission... Why bother maintaining them? The Spirit doesn't really have any use, they can't be used against Russia, and there are many more practical options for bombing countries with little defense. IMHO, they should be scrapped to allow the US to buy a replacement, but that wouldn't look good now would it?

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  JPJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:23 am

    Another question. If the B 2 isn`t usefull, Why Russia want to make a very similar bomber? Wath is the mission for these planes?

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:17 am

    JPJ wrote:Another question. If the B 2 isn`t usefull, Why Russia want to make a very similar bomber? Wath is the mission for these planes?
    Russia isn't building a B-2 competitor, but a Bear and Blackjack replacement. So while it will have a similar purpose to the B-2, the PAK-DA will be used to replace current bombers in quantity.

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:55 am

    Off Topic but personally I prefer the name White Swan rather than Blackjack.

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:18 am

    The B-2 is a "fly into enemy air space and drop bombs on precision targets" Strategic bomber.

    The PAK DA will be two different planes... it will be a theatre bomber with a huge payload with reduced fuel, and it will be a stand off strategic cruise missile carrier, carrying either stealthy subsonic cruise missiles with a flight range of 5-8,000km, or hypersonic cruise missiles with a flight range of a few thousand kms. The point is that the aircraft will be stealthy to penetrate enemy airspace for theatre bombing of smaller countries, while for strategic bombing it will be able to fly within 5,000km of the target... well outside the best defences range and launch cruise missiles.

    In other words it will be stealthy enough to penetrate third world countries airspace (after it has first been worked on so to speak), but it will attack first world countries from safer standoff distances.

    the result is a cheaper, simpler, subsonic plane that should be like the B-52 and able to soldier on for another 50 years, but will be far superior to the B-52 in performance and stealth.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:04 pm

    The US Just Held Long-Range Bomber Drills Over An Area Russia Wants


    You're not keeping eye on usa developments lately .

    Two pairs of B-52H Stratofortress bombers, from Barksdale AFB and from Minot AFB, streaked north last week on a long-range exercise dubbed “Polar Growl.” One set of bombers would end up over the far reaches of the North Sea, while the other would cruise high above the Polar Icecap, both areas where Putin's Russia is increasing its presence. This doesn't seem like a coincidence.

    The whole affair had three main objectives. First, to test and see how US Strategic Command could handle two separate missions, heading into two separate areas, at the same time. Second, to inter-operate with allied air forces and give crews familiarity with mock foreign intercepts. And third, to give B-52 crews experience navigating the extreme northerly latitudes. STRATCOM boss Admiral Cecil Haney described the value of the exercise:

    “These flights, demonstrating the credible and flexible ability of our strategic bomber force in internationally-recognized flight information regions, are the culmination of months of planning and coordination... They are one of many ways we demonstrate interoperability, compliance with national and international protocols, and due regard for the safety of all aircraft sharing the air space.”

    Such a statement is somewhat of a slap in the face to the Russians who have become increasingly brazen when it comes to their near constant long-range strategic aircraft drills, even turning off their transponders when flying in dense international airspace.

    During Polar Growl, the B-52Hs practiced dissimilar air intercepts and maneuvering with Royal Canadian AF, Royal AF and Royal Netherlands AF fighters. All have been intercepting Russian bomber, surveillance and fighter aircraft with alarming regularity over the past year. Major Nathan Barnhart, a 343rd Bomb Squadron instructor radar navigator describes the utility of such a training sortie

    And those "many missions" that he references, along with ever decreasing crew flight hours, may be hindrances to the B-52 force's ability to stay in top readiness condition for their nuclear strike role. The truth is that for the past decade and a half they have been busy bombing the Taliban in Afghanistan from tens of thousands of feet up in the air, employing their Sniper targeting pods, which were designed for fighter aircraft, and laser and GPS guided bombs. This is a very different mission than patrolling the arctic as a deterrent towards potential Russian aggression.


    Now we will have to see if Polar Growl was just a preview of many more similar missions to come. Seeing as Putin's long-range aviation forces have marauded around the globe with alarming regularity as of late, and the US is already trying to curtail these flights, now it may be time for the USAF to give Russia a little taste of its own medicine.



    Do read the replies eg. 1) Russia uses 1950 tech to detect stealth planes 2) These conspiracy theorists don't know russians use a lot of measures to detect stealth meanwhile in that much time our stealth bomber would've bombed their assets already



    http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-us-just-held-long-range-bomber-drills-over-an-area-1696258955/all

    don't forget to bookmark this us military website Very Happy : http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  George1 on Thu May 28, 2015 12:24 pm

    US Air Force Approves Software Upgrade of B-2 Strategic Bombers

    The US Air Force has approved a $102 million software upgrade for its B-2 strategic bombers, Northrop Grumman announced in a press release from its plant in Oklahoma City.

    WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — The CDR is a key review point in a three-year, $102 million contract awarded to Northrop Grumman in August 2014 for the engineering and manufacturing development portion of the program.

    “The company successfully completed the critical design review (CDR) of the service's Flexible Strike Phase 1 program on February 3,” Northrop Grumman said on Wednesday.

    Now Northrop Grumman has Air Force approval to begin development and integration of new software and hardware for the upgrade, the defense company said.

    “The Flexible Strike software upgrade lays the foundation for future system enhancements, including the ability to carry multiple weapon types,” US Air Force Fighters and Bombers Directorate B-2 Division Chief Robert Strasser was quoted as saying in the statement.

    “This 'mixed loads' capability will ensure maximum strategic nuclear and conventional strike capability,” Strasser said.

    The new software “will also reduce B-2 maintenance costs, increase mission flexibility and increase aircraft reliability,” Northrop Grumman Vice President and B-2 Program Manager Dave Mazur said in the statement.

    Northrop Grumman is replacing several operational flight programs (OFP) with a single OFP that can manage all of the B-2's weapons carrying devices.

    Northrop Grumman is the US Air Force's prime contractor for the B-2 long range strategic bomber.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150528/1022634516.html#ixzz3bQYqzU6a

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  max steel on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:17 pm

    US Nuclear Bombers Lack Satellite Terminals for Atomic Emergencies Neutral




    A new Government Accountability Office report says that US satellite terminals to ensure communications with nuclear bombers do not yet exist and have been delayed indefinitely.

    WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — US satellite terminals to ensure communications with nuclear bombers do not yet exist and have been delayed indefinitely, a new Government Accountability Office (GAO) report said.

    “[The] development of key satellite communication terminals for strategic bomber aircraft has been deferred by several years,” the report said. “Further details remain classified.”

    The terminals were planned to be part of a massive nuclear command, communications and control (NC3) system, the GAO explained.


    The NC3 was supposed to be comprised of numerous land, air and space-based components, the GAO noted, that tie together nuclear forces and their commanders all the way up to the White House with “survivable, secure, and enduring communications through all threat environments.”
    The GAO said it focused its review on seven NC3 programs “that pertain to planning, decision making, situation monitoring, force management and force direction.”

    The GAO chose to focus on these key NC3 programs because they “are among the largest… in terms of estimated cost and… critical capabilities,” the report said.

    In its investigations, the GAO interviewed numerous officials from the US Air Force, the US Strategic Command, the Defense Information Systems Agency, Air Force Global Strike Command as well as Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory and other relevant agencies, it said.

    The Government Accountability Office is an independent, nonpartisan agency that works for Congress and investigates how the US federal government spends taxpayer dollars.



    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150616/1023409639.html#ixzz3dGJcfRRA

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    Re: B-2 'Spirit' Stealth Bomber

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:18 pm

    US Air Force’s B-2 Bomber to Be Outfitted With New Digital Nukes

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201611011046939153-b-2-bomber-nuclear-upgrades/


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