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    Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:35 pm

    Isos wrote:
    When you know they produced fighters, war ships ... and now they have issues with a rocket, that's sad. If your engineers have issues with physic laws then you can blame just your eduction programs ...


    Produced fighters that werent much of a fighters you know, and that had major issues of their own. And alot of it was licenced. J-22 isnt the shiniest apple in the basket. And you need to understand that Yugoslavia had 25,5 million citizens, and had about 350 companies that directly worked on defence programs. Today you have shrinking Serbia with barely 7 million citizens and no more than dozen companies with permanent defence programs. And those are still producing mostly items that were developed back then. Our major overhaul facility for fighters can overhaul 2 fighters a year, and it used to overhaul dozens.

    Physics is not the problem, they all know it very well, issues are of technical nature.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:37 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Wouldn't it be in Serbia's best interest then to do lots of JV with lets say Russia, Belarus and others in order to get a cut out of the defense spending pie and as well gain access to the needed tech for their own use?

    What we do the best is to buy items from Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, France, Israel, Slovenia, Netherlands...and who not, then glue it all together and claim its our product Very Happy

    What we could possibly offer to Russia for them to be interested in? Very little really.

    On other hand we are, liked it or not, procuring and exporting materials used in defence indstry from and to, Ukraine. Company in my city is doing some precise tooling for Ukrainians.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:38 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:and just for some crazy concept theirs the dominator lol

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/serbia_serbian_army_artillery_vehicles_systems_uk/dominator_m2/12_multi-caliber_mlrs_multiple_launch_rocket_system_technical_data_sheet_specifications.html



    Seems like it isn't that crazy the UAE have copied or bought design something extremely similar the Jobaria defence systems multiple cradle launcher has 240 tubes carrying 122mm rockets effective firing range 16km max firing range 37km. There is also a 300 mm version but feel it's lacking in range.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobaria_Defense_Systems_Multiple_Cradle_Launcher


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:08 am

    Pretty interesting....sort of a mini cruise missile riding on top of a MRL round

    Serbia unveils new Kosava-1 precision-guided missile
    http://defence-blog.com/army/serbia-unveils-new-kosava-1-precision-guided-missile.html

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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:36 pm

    Demonstration of Serbian weapons to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu

    The Ministry of Defense of Russia posted on its website photos on the results of a visit to Serbia by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. A number of them are of particular interest, since they show individual samples of armaments of local production. The acquaintance with the Serbian technique took place at the Batajnica airbase. The well-known Serbian military expert Svetozar Jokanovic gave our blog necessary explanations regarding the submitted samples.


    In this photo, in the foreground, the ATGM 9M14 Malyutka (modifications 2F (with a high-explosive warhead) or 2T (with a tandem warhead) and 2T5 - a rocket with an increased range of fire) are seen in the foreground. In the background, the products of the Serbian company Kurshik are visible - mortar mines of 60, 81/82 and 120 mm caliber, as well as grenades (next to Sergei Shoigu) M-75 and M-84 (c) Russian Ministry of Defense


    In this photo, inert samples of the long-range long-range missile "Koshava 1" EK1-2017 equipped with feathers are visible. It is interesting that the tests of the missile system are planned in Pakistan, since Serbia does not have the appropriate ranges. Pakistan, apparently, will become the first export customer of the system (c) Russian Ministry of Defense

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914919.html


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:15 am

    Serbia's military industry seems to be showing more serious "signs of life" for the first time since the break up of Yugoslavia

    Work is underway on an upgraded version of the J-22 Orao (Eagle) strike aircraft currently dubbed as Orao 2.0
    Currently only the several 2 seat NJ-22 aircraft are planned for the upgrade.

    Basicaly, the aircraft is to receive new avionics enabling use at night and bad weather and a range of new guided weaponry.



    ..

    R-60MK SR-AAM, TV guided missile VRVZ-200, Laser Guided Bomb LVB-250


    ..

    M-16D guided rocket that can be launched from a quadruple or single tube launcher


    ..

    M-16D + AGM-65 Maverick


    ..

    Jammer RADEOM-1


    ...

    GROM-B modified domestic version of the Kh-23

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:32 am

    Its mostly just buckets of paint and glue tbh. As i worked for a while on certain things for SDPR i can tell you that majority of these projects will end up on that.. projects, papers... mockups... Smile
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:02 am

    We shall see...when were you working there?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:48 am

    Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

    I was contractor actually. 2012-2015. on few occasions.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:48 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

    I was contractor actually. 2012-2015. on few occasions.

    if Serbia decided to put money towards development, would it take long to produce working examples of these new systems showcased? What about steady production?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:21 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

    I was contractor actually. 2012-2015. on few occasions.

    if Serbia decided to put money towards development, would it take long to produce working examples of these new systems showcased? What about steady production?

    Most of the things you saw there are actually working examples, however serial production and severing reliance on import components and materials is totally different story. And ironing out issues is not easy as we lost alot of know-how during last 25 years.

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    Isos

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:14 pm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Avion

    @Militarov Do you think this plane would have been good enough compare to other fighters of its class ? Did they sold its plans to China for J-10 ?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:02 pm

    Isos wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Avion

    @Militarov Do you think this plane would have been good enough compare to other fighters of its class ? Did they sold its plans to China for J-10 ?

    It would never reach the maturity of F-16 or Gripen most likely. But it would have been good enough replacement for MiG-21s yugoslavia used.

    No, it was in early stages of development when it was scrapped and pushed aside. There was nothing China would have been interested into.

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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:23 pm

    I still think Serbia and Belarus should do a joint arms industry. Serbia could focus on certain areas, Belarus like wise and anything missing they could do joint venture even bringing in Russia and China on ad hoc basis for expertise and parts. It would likely reduce Serbia's parts pool down to max 3 countries (the ones mentioned ) cost sharing on design, research and production would help both countries and could even help China and Russia with research costs for similar equipment that they are designing. And Could for closer ties. Some of the serbian and Belarusian equipment isn't that bad just lack of funds and export market. Belarus faces same problems. India could also be potential partner on ad hoc basis.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:59 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:I still think Serbia and Belarus should do a joint arms industry. Serbia could focus on certain areas, Belarus like wise and anything missing they could do joint venture even bringing in Russia and China on ad hoc basis for expertise and parts. It would likely reduce Serbia's parts pool down to max 3 countries (the ones mentioned ) cost sharing on design, research and production would help both countries and could even help China and Russia with research costs for similar equipment that they are designing. And Could for closer ties. Some of the serbian and Belarusian equipment isn't that bad just lack of funds and export market. Belarus faces same problems. India could also be potential partner on ad hoc basis.

    Serbia uses Belarusian components.. but we so do import components from Ukraine, Russia...France, Israel, Germany, Sweden... Netherlands...Austria...Slovenia... Italy, Bosnia and Herzegovina.... UK... USA.... well... basically everywhere.
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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:43 pm

    Serbia’s first HAPS, new UAVs, unveiled by CTT at SEAS

    The second Southeast Europe Aviation Summit (SEAS), held in Belgrade, Serbia, on 8 and 9 March, saw the unveiling of three new innovative unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) currently under development by Belgrade-based Composite Technology Team (CTT).

    Chief among these was a high-altitude pseudo satellite (HAPS) named Pupin after the Serbian-American scientist Mihajlo Pupin. A solar-powered UAV designed to fly at altitudes of 20,000 m, Pupin is intended to stay airborne for months while carrying various payloads, such as telecommunications equipment and surveillance sensors.

    “We are one of only five companies worldwide that are currently working on developing HAPS and we hope that very soon we will begin testing our system in order to prove the concept and proceed with the follow-on development of Pupin for executing a wide variety of military and civilian missions,” Petar Matunovic, CTT aerospace engineer and CEO told Jane’s at SEAS.

    Matunovic explained that CTT is looking to partner with reliable companies from the aviation industry to further boost its work on Pupin as well as the company’s other two ongoing UAV projects: the NT155 and the NT161 (the NT designations are a tribute to the Serbian-American scientist Nikola Tesla).

    Presented in model form at SEAS, the NT155 is a medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV with an airframe made entirely from advanced composites. This allows a complex aerodynamic shape and light weight while offering the structural strength required to facilitate wing-mounted hardpoints for weapons, electro-optical payloads, or auxiliary fuel tanks. The system is still in the design phase but is expected to have a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 1,000 kg, a cruising speed of 140 km/h, and an operational endurance of at least 16 hours.
    (Pics on link)
    Http://www.janes.com/article/78475/serbia-s-first-haps-new-uavs-unveiled-by-ctt-at-seas?utm_campaign=PC6110_E18%20DF%20NL%20Airforces%2013_03_18&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua
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    Isos

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:06 pm

    https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
    A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
    Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
    Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
    “Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
    As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
    The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
    The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
    It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
    The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
    Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles




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    Godric

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Godric on Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:21 pm

    Isos wrote:
    https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
    A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
    Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
    Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
    “Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
    As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
    The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
    The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
    It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
    The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
    Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles





    very interesting design ... stretched t-72 hull
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:18 am

    Isos wrote:
    https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
    A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
    Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
    Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
    “Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
    As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
    The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
    The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
    It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
    The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
    Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles





    Thing is, this was just a model drawn by members of certain Serbian military forum. And someone... blew it out of the proportion, it ended even in Sputnik. Its real as much as Batman is.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:02 am

    In parts they claim it is an Armata type vehicle but they admit it is more of a T-90 type vehicle...

    The critical part is where they claim it is an Armata tank type vehicle... armata is a vehicle family that includes a tank member of that family.

    Seems to have two cannon mounted on the turret... interesting... one on each side...


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:12 am


    Guys, that's just a fanart, no need to waste time
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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  HUNTER VZLA on Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 am

    very interesting the military industry Serbia would be good to offer their products to Latin America






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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 10, 2018 12:52 am

    HUNTER VZLA wrote:very interesting the military industry Serbia would be good to offer their products to Latin America







    Quite hard to compete with Chinese, South African and Russian defence industries tho.
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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu May 10, 2018 7:23 am

    Militarov wrote:
    HUNTER VZLA wrote:very interesting the military industry Serbia would be good to offer their products to Latin America







    Quite hard to compete with Chinese, South African and Russian defence industries tho.

    Yugoimport should conduct joint-ventures with the arms industries of those nations. The next state visits for those diplomatic dignitaries, Serbia could leverage economic deals with a military tech development-venture, as a hot export item, it's the easiest way to get a foothold in a market. You don't have to start from scratch, you could just use one countries vehicles for another countries weapon systems.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 11, 2018 2:55 am

    Regarding comments about a lot of the stuff being shown being paint and glue... that is perfectly normal... when there was no money during the 1990s the vast majority of new stuff in Russia was little more than paint and glue.

    A good example is the Mi-28A and Ka-50, which were ready for early service in 1988, yet lacked night and all weather capability. For a decade they talked about upgrading them to night and all weather capability but it was not until after about 2000 before they actually had the night vision cameras to actually make such a platform... and even then another decade before they were at the position of hardware looking anything like what they wanted... and another almost decade later they have the Ka-52 in production but the Mi-28NM is entering production/service.

    It was the same for many other things too, especially UAVs which were shown at every defence event in the 1990s and 2000s, but they had poor optics and were not stable or easy to operate, had poor range and speed and lots of other weaknesses.

    After 2008 when real funding and foreign samples were bought to show Russian makers what was expected, and today UAVs are much more widespread... even used at exercises to monitor them... even used by the exercising forces to contribute to operations... in 1990 the only operational UAVs were the bumblebees used by the artillery units... which were really the only branch of the Russian military that seemed to be interested in UAVs.

    Now even ground and air unmanned vehicles are used for security as well as recon and target spotting.

    The point is that the paint and glue is the web to attract the funding... if they can do that... then there is a good chance of production... the main problem for teh Serbian developers is that the Serbian military is a very small market, whereas for Russian companies the Russian military could buy enough to make their product development viable alone without any export orders... which means it is more likely to go forward... exports become bonus sales.

    For Serbian developers export sales will be their main income if they can get their product developed and into serial production.


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