Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Private Military Companies

    Share

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1207
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Private Military Companies

    Post  par far on Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:01 pm

    A little while back, I read about how Russia going to make Private Military Companies(like Blackwater). Does Russia currently have a private military company or do they plan on getting some. I think private military companies are good as they can used to push foreign policy like the US does.


    http://rt.com/politics/168904-russia-private-military-companies/



    NationalRus
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 637
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  NationalRus on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:20 pm

    they have, RSB Group some others

    im also all for it and a active roll for them

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1957
    Points : 1964
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:27 pm

    RSB group is still working in Iraq AFAIK. I wonder how dangerous their job is at the moment.

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:28 pm

    NationalRus wrote:they have, RSB Group some others

    im also all for it and a active roll for them
    All for them? They are a disastrous in the making (unless they are tightly watched). I thought Blackwater was enough of a failure, that people would give up on such companies, guess not!

    NationalRus
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 637
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  NationalRus on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:40 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    NationalRus wrote:they have, RSB Group some others

    im also all for it and a active roll for them
    All for them? They are a disastrous in the making (unless they are tightly watched). I thought Blackwater was enough of a failure, that people would give up on such companies, guess not!
    they are actaully the most effective, far more effective then beurocratic and unflexeble normal army units in a unconventional situation. blackwater was also effective in what they did, but well 2 fuck ups and your out, while when themilitary fucks up for the thousends of a time then well shit happens no need to talk about it

    they just get all the media hype when somthing goes wrong since well they are privet after all

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:25 pm

    Sure they are effective, but definitely not without drawbacks... They can go against regulation and armed forces planning, as wonderfully demonstrated by Blackwater every friggin' deployment. Not to say that they all do that, but I wouldn't doubt it... Plus they stir up a lot of controversy, even though that isn't a direct problem, it is one nonetheless.

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1207
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  par far on Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:05 pm

    NationalRus wrote:they have, RSB Group some others

    im also all for it and a active roll for them


    They are very effective and can be used where soldiers cannot be used for various purposes. They should be supported financially and logistically.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:52 am

    Private Military Companies are very dangerous and are used currently by the US to do jobs which they can not allow to be done by normal military units, mostly unethical and forbidden actions. Black Water are driving through cities in Iraq and Afghansitan like that is their playground they are killing civilians for fun to provoce firefights, they are terrorists by the very defintion of this word, they use violence to intimidate the people aka terrorism and i am against PMC's they are very dangerous.

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1207
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  par far on Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:22 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Private Military Companies are very dangerous and are used currently by the US to do jobs which they can not allow to be done by normal military units, mostly unethical and forbidden actions. Black Water are driving through cities in Iraq and Afghansitan like that is their playground they are killing civilians for fun to provoce firefights, they are terrorists by the very defintion of this word, they use violence to intimidate the people aka terrorism and i am against PMC's they are very dangerous.


    I know that Private Military Companies are dangerous but sometimes you need them to fight fire with fire when you don't enough water like in Ukraine(Russia just can't send in the regular army). The US is using Private Military Companies in Ukraine to do their dirty work for them. Private Military Companies can be very useful, blackwater in Iraq and Afghanistan were doing what they were told to do kill innocent civilians, so someone would shoot back at them and then the people shooting back at them can be called terrorists and the US could justify being there because there are "terrorists" still in that country.

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 488
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:38 am

    There are private 'security' companies (see gas/oil giants at the first place) and half-legal firms like 'RSB Group' but no actual law basis for private military contractors

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:46 am

    par far wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Private Military Companies are very dangerous and are used currently by the US to do jobs which they can not allow to be done by normal military units, mostly unethical and forbidden actions. Black Water are driving through cities in Iraq and Afghansitan like that is their playground they are killing civilians for fun to provoce firefights, they are terrorists by the very defintion of this word, they use violence to intimidate the people aka terrorism and i am against PMC's they are very dangerous.


    I know that Private Military Companies are dangerous but sometimes you need them to fight fire with fire when you don't enough water like in Ukraine(Russia just can't send in the regular army). The US is using Private Military Companies in Ukraine to do their dirty work for them. Private Military Companies can be very useful, blackwater in Iraq and Afghanistan were doing what they were told to do kill innocent civilians, so someone would shoot back at them and then the people shooting back at them can be called terrorists and the US could justify being there because there are "terrorists" still in that country.  

    You can form a special forces unit that is under direct command of the military and the head of the state and will only act in specific boundaries and will not become Blackwater scum that starts to terrorize civilians just for fun which they do so since more than two decades.

    They will also not need to have insignias or anything, special forces often don't use them anyway when operating abroad, absolutley no point of PMC's except if you want act like a lunatic imperial country that terrorize small countries.

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 488
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:12 pm

    You can form a special forces unit that is under direct command of the military and the head of the state and will only act in specific boundaries

    There are such units already

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:46 pm

    Asf wrote:
    You can form a special forces unit that is under direct command of the military and the head of the state and will only act in specific boundaries

    There are such units already

    And that is exactly why i do not understand why do you want russia to have PMC's when they already have special forces that already have training and warfare doctrine for asymmetrical warfare and can performe far better any of such tasks and have direct command from military and logistics of military, where PMC's had to rely on military anyway, so it does not make sense to have PMC's, because a private company will not act or be bound to the government of the country it is located, meaning they could be used by other countries to performe duties that maybe against the interest of russia.

    NationalRus
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 637
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  NationalRus on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:39 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    You can form a special forces unit that is under direct command of the military and the head of the state and will only act in specific boundaries

    There are such units already

    And that is exactly why i do not understand why do you want russia to have PMC's when they already have special forces that already have training and warfare doctrine for asymmetrical warfare and can performe far better any of such tasks and have direct command from military and logistics of military, where PMC's had to rely on military anyway, so it does not make sense to have PMC's, because a private company will not act or be bound to the government of the country it is located, meaning they could be used by other countries to performe duties that maybe against the interest of russia.

    why do you want to stop them? ther dessicion if they volunteer to fight if thats what they expert at. and ther still more effective and far more flexible then any goverment troops and agencies, ther at the top of the game while doing it on ther own will with no backclash at the "homefront"

    blackwater bashing is nothing but a fucking myth! which people have too feed every now and then so it doesnt die, everything what is done with a gun can go wrong and if it does the concecuenses are deadly! the army fucks up it well tragic but what can you do, if a private organisation does the same we have a fucking sensation which we can exploit litterly forever, one and the same thing gets talked about now for nearly the 6th year

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:32 am

    Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.

    Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:39 am

    GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.

    Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
    Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1207
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  par far on Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:04 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.

    Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
    Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...


    I think Blackater did what the US government told them to do and that was to kill innocent civilians and create chaos, so the US could justify being in Iraq or elsewhere.

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1957
    Points : 1964
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Regular on Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:21 pm

    blackwater is blackwater. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. There are plenty of PMCs around the world who doesn't have such infamous status. Thanks to Blackwater crimes US PMC companies are not welcome.


    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:17 pm

    par far wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.

    Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
    Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...


    I think Blackater did what the US government told them to do and that was to kill innocent civilians and create chaos, so the US could justify being in Iraq or elsewhere.  

    Or it was just them abusing their freedom... Military business should be done by the military or government, not some chaos-producing private company.

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1207
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Private military companies

    Post  par far on Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:11 pm

    Russia already has some private military companies, what do you guys think about really expanding them and supporting them. They can be a good foreign policy tool, there was a bill but it was voted down but the polictian who made the bill is fixing it up and bringing it back.






    https://www.rt.com/politics/316276-government-rejects-bill-to-introduce/



    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:13 pm

    par far wrote:Russia already has some private military companies, what do you guys think about really expanding them and supporting them. They can be a good foreign policy tool, there was a bill but it was voted down but the polictian who made the bill is fixing it up and bringing it back.






    https://www.rt.com/politics/316276-government-rejects-bill-to-introduce/



    We discussed that already on some other thread, most are against it since russia isn't some evil empire like US that sends its terrorists.

    Private Military companies are merceneries and since they do not account for a country they are freely counted as terrorists.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:45 am

    You could argue that it is a practical and more positive thing for ex special forces soldiers to do after service... but then who wants private armies for people with money in their countries?

    I am sure George Soros would love to set up a mercenary unit there...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:53 am

    I guess the other option for these ex personnel I suppose is private security. There are plenty of them in Russia apparently, ones that deal with even just standard security for lets say banks or high profile locations in more dangerous locations. As well, there are the following PMC companies whom already operate in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_military_contractors


    Sponsored content

    Re: Private Military Companies

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:12 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:12 am