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    higurashihougi
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    Bulgarian Military

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:34 am

    @Kommissar: Could you verify the information below ? Thank you.

    soha.vn/quan-su/linh-bulgaria-noi-loan-vi-chinh-phu-bo-may-bay-nga-dung-hang-my-20141009143825339.htm (originally in Vietnamese)

    Bulgarian goverment decided to stop using the Russian-made military aircrafts. This decisions caused a small protests inside the Air Force.

    When they join NATO, poor countries in Eastern Europe can enjoy the protection of the West. But they have to pay a great price in order to be suitable with the military systems of rich countries. The recent issues of Bulgaria is a notable example.

    According to Trud, Bulgarian goverment has just decided to retire the Russian military aircrafts. 15 MiG-29s, 6 MiG-21s, 14 Su-25s will have been gradually retired before 2020. Due to such events, 300 pilots, military engineers and technicians lost their job, and therefore a small protest has occured inside the Bulgarian army.

    The Trud quoted that Bulgarian Defense Minister Velizar Shalamanov is the one who provide a strong support for this decision. The Minister claimed that Bulgaria has to be independent from Russia  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1 and military independence is the first priority.

    The truth is simply that, as Bulgaria has joined NATO, it has to use NATO weapons and cannot use Russian stuffs anymore. But Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in NATO (sorry, Kommissar, I do not mean it), and NATO weapons are expensive, therefore it has been ten years but Bulgaria still has to use Russian weapons.

    In order to replaced the retired Russian aircrafts, Defense Minister Shalamanov suggested that Bulgaria should use 300 mil euro to buy 8 new Western aircrafts. But some analysists criticized this proposal, they commented that Shalamanov is ignorant about weapon contracts. After all, with 300 mil euro Bulgaria can only buy second-hand F-16s. The price of brand-new aircraft is 100 euro/piece at least.

    The Trud criticized that, at the moment, Bulgaria may have not find out how to buy second-hand F-16s. In 2013, Bulgaria tried to bought fighters from Portugal. Trud commented that Bulgaria can also buy aircrafts from Greece. Trud mentioned Portugal and Greece as a way to criticized the current Bulgaria's decision, because both Greece and Portugal are NATO members with severe financial problems.

    Well, if Bulgaria do not want to use Russian MiGs and Su... sells it to Vietnam !  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

    Airbornewolf
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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Airbornewolf on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:03 am

    regrettable, i read a simmilar article recently about the Czech Air force wanting to replace their MI-17's with U.S UH-60's Blackhawks. and i never understood why.

    ive flown both as a passenger in Afghanistan during my tours, but i honestly prefer the MI-8 AMTSh that where bought for the Afghanistan air force and at the time piloted and crewed by Yanks.

    as a passenger, you got more space in an MI-8 AMTSh than a Blackhawk. besides the obvious thing that it does not feel like a deathtrap like a an Blackhawk where you would be trapped by all the tied-down cargo blocking the entrance, instead you just look to this gaping exit-ramp. like you would in an Chinook.

    it works great with entering and exiting the helicopter too. the newest MI-8 incorporates the greatest advantage of the CH-47 Chinook witch is its rear-loading ramp. instead of almost crawling out of an UH-60 you can stand up straight in an MI-8 and storm out at full spring out the rear, without having to worry about its tail-rotor because its positioned relatively high above the ground. and im not sure if its standard in all MI-8/17's but the windows all open in the MI-8 AMTSh that where designed for infantry to use their weapons from the helicopter in flight. it might not be much, but knowing i can put my weapon out the window and unload at the enemy is a good feeling when im riding it into a shithole. the Blackhawk did not have that feature... i propably shoot out its windows or half its wiring if i do that.

    as an "passenger" im sold by the MI-8 AMTSh personally. and i have not even mentioned the weapons the MI-8 can carry standard on its pylons to provide immediate ground fire support to ground troops. or that its avionics are today just as advanced as the UH-60's nowadays. when i looked in the cockpit they had GPRS and multi-spectrum optics, and that was just what i could see from the rear. its got a list of benefits of course as well over the uh-60, cost-efficient,cargo and passenger capacity, weaponry, etcetera etcetera..

    the Kashtan plant is not working over-hours producing this type of helicopter for nothing of course russia

    NATO weaponry ceased to be good products after 1993, after that it became overpriced malfunctioning hardware that barely gets the job done in the millitary sense of saying.






    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:27 am

    One more amazing post of yours my friend!

    NationalRus
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    Bulgaria's military warned of Soviet-era 'catastrophe'

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:24 pm

    "Catastrophic consequences" await the Bulgarian armed forces if they are not weaned soon from dependence on old Russian equipment and repairs, according to outgoing Defence Minister Velizar Shalamanov.

    He was speaking in a BBC interview amid a war of words that has broken out between Bulgaria and Russia over Russian involvement in Ukraine and Russian pressure to speed up work on the South Stream gas pipeline, which will cross Bulgaria.

    As an EU and Nato member with strong traditional links to Russia, Bulgaria is walking a tightrope between East and West.

    Bulgaria was said to have frozen work on the Russian gas pipeline project in August, under EU and US pressure. According to Russia, work on the ground continues.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29593405

    BlackArrow
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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  BlackArrow on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:36 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:

    as a passenger, you got more space in an MI-8 AMTSh than a Blackhawk. besides the obvious thing that it does not feel like a deathtrap like a an Blackhawk where you would be trapped by all the tied-down cargo blocking the entrance, instead you just look to this gaping exit-ramp. like you would in an Chinook.
    You think a Blackhawk helicopter is cramped - try standing up in a Mercedes Benz S class - very uncomfortable.

    "NATO weaponry ceased to be good products after 1993, after that it became overpriced malfunctioning hardware that barely gets the job done in the millitary sense of saying. "

    And how do you know this - you've used all this weaponry personally.

    Of course, the Blackhawk helicopter is such a crap helicopter even Kamov agrees with you:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-60

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:18 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:

    as a passenger, you got more space in an MI-8 AMTSh than a Blackhawk. besides the obvious thing that it does not feel like a deathtrap like a an Blackhawk where you would be trapped by all the tied-down cargo blocking the entrance, instead you just look to this gaping exit-ramp. like you would in an Chinook.
    You think a Blackhawk helicopter is cramped - try standing up in a Mercedes Benz S class - very uncomfortable.

    "NATO weaponry ceased to be good products after 1993, after that it became overpriced malfunctioning hardware that barely gets the job done in the millitary sense of saying. "

    And how do you know this - you've used all this weaponry personally.

    Of course, the Blackhawk helicopter is such a crap helicopter even Kamov agrees with you:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-60

    What has the Ka-60 or Kamov to do with UH-60?

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:03 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:

    as a passenger, you got more space in an MI-8 AMTSh than a Blackhawk. besides the obvious thing that it does not feel like a deathtrap like a an Blackhawk where you would be trapped by all the tied-down cargo blocking the entrance, instead you just look to this gaping exit-ramp. like you would in an Chinook.


    "NATO weaponry ceased to be good products after 1993, after that it became overpriced malfunctioning hardware that barely gets the job done in the millitary sense of saying. "

    And how do you know this - you've used all this weaponry personally.


    thats an Yes, either directly present during exercises/Tours in Afghanistan to witness the capability of these weapon systems or used it myself.

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:45 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:@Kommissar: Could you verify the information below ? Thank you.

    soha.vn/quan-su/linh-bulgaria-noi-loan-vi-chinh-phu-bo-may-bay-nga-dung-hang-my-20141009143825339.htm (originally in Vietnamese)

    Bulgarian goverment decided to stop using the Russian-made military aircrafts. This decisions caused a small protests inside the Air Force.

    When they join NATO, poor countries in Eastern Europe can enjoy the protection of the West. But they have to pay a great price in order to be suitable with the military systems of rich countries. The recent issues of Bulgaria is a notable example.

    According to Trud, Bulgarian goverment has just decided to retire the Russian military aircrafts. 15 MiG-29s, 6 MiG-21s, 14 Su-25s will have been gradually retired before 2020. Due to such events, 300 pilots, military engineers and technicians lost their job, and therefore a small protest has occured inside the Bulgarian army.

    The Trud quoted that Bulgarian Defense Minister Velizar Shalamanov is the one who provide a strong support for this decision. The Minister claimed that Bulgaria has to be independent from Russia  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1  lol1 and military independence is the first priority.

    The truth is simply that, as Bulgaria has joined NATO, it has to use NATO weapons and cannot use Russian stuffs anymore. But Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in NATO (sorry, Kommissar, I do not mean it), and NATO weapons are expensive, therefore it has been ten years but Bulgaria still has to use Russian weapons.

    In order to replaced the retired Russian aircrafts, Defense Minister Shalamanov suggested that Bulgaria should use 300 mil euro to buy 8 new Western aircrafts. But some analysists criticized this proposal, they commented that Shalamanov is ignorant about weapon contracts. After all, with 300 mil euro Bulgaria can only buy second-hand F-16s. The price of brand-new aircraft is 100 euro/piece at least.

    The Trud criticized that, at the moment, Bulgaria may have not find out how to buy second-hand F-16s. In 2013, Bulgaria tried to bought fighters from Portugal. Trud commented that Bulgaria can also buy aircrafts from Greece. Trud mentioned Portugal and Greece as a way to criticized the current Bulgaria's decision, because both Greece and Portugal are NATO members with severe financial problems.

    Well, if Bulgaria do not want to use Russian MiGs and Su... sells it to Vietnam !  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    I wouldn't be surprised(given we stopped operating many aircraft that played crucial roles in our airforce like Su-22M4s and Su-25s)although very few bulgarians(apart from real buffs) care. Our ruling right wing politicians become more full of themselves every month.  First it was "protesting russian imperialism" now "independence".

    The bulgarian military, like much of the east european russophobe governments seems to be drinking copious amounts of western corporate coolaid and were tricked into some useless purchases because they looked all shiny, for example,C-27 spartans, we laready have An-12 yet we bought this third wheel,and our Panther helicopters, ours are only designed for rescue missions, not ASW even though Mi-8s  both have higher payload and are cheaper(besides if we were wise enough we could've bought second hand Ka-32s or Ka-26s).

    Shalamanov is of course the usual idiot. From the moment I read  in 2011 how we were gonna buy 80s F-16s I knew something became really screwed up( even though back then was ofr the F-16s to SUPPLEMENT, not replace MiG-29s)

    Bulgarian military has missed quite a lot of good deals in the last 20 years. Gripen, DCLS french stealth corvettes(we're stuck now with 70s belgian light frigates that are very near the end of their serviceable age).

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Regular on Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:33 am

    Sorry for offtopic, but isn't new Mi-17 straight from factory more expensive than new Blackhawk?

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:41 am

    Regular wrote:Sorry for offtopic, but isn't new Mi-17 straight from factory more expensive than new Blackhawk?
    I don't think so... Don't know what the actual cost of both is, but sources say the UH-60 is a more expensive option to export countries.

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:21 pm

    Bulgarian Air Force Faces Trouble Over Anti-Russian Sanctions

    Bulgaria’s military may only retain two Russian-made MiG-29 jet fighters by May 2015, according to Bulgaria's Air Force commander-in-chief Rumen Radev.

    Bulgarian Air Force commander-in-chief Rumen Radev has warned that only two of Bulgaria’s Russian-made MiG-29 jet fighters may remain in service by May 2015, according to the Russian news agency RIA-Novosti.

    Radev lamented the fact that the country’s military had neglected to repair the MiG-29 aircraft engines and hadn’t conducted preventive maintenance for many years.

    "It is impossible to buy spare parts and repair the Russian-made aircraft due to the imposition of sanctions against Russia”, Radev said.

    According to open sources, Bulgaria's Air Force owns twelve MiG-29 combat fighters and two MiG-29UB combat training planes, in addition to other combat vehicles.

    Radev said that the situation has prompted Bulgaria to consider turning to its immediate NATO neighbors Greece and Turkey for the protection of Bulgarian airspace.

    He added that "joint defense would be the best step."

    At the same time, Radev made it clear that creating such a defense system will take money, which he said Bulgaria cannot currently afford.

    Radev said that another option could be the creation of an air defense shield in Bulgaria which would be supported by NATO, a system that he said is already in place in the three Baltic countries.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150208/1017968247.html#ixzz3R9wCJVOV

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 am

    http://www.bta.bg/en/c/DF/id/1030039?ModPagespeed=noscript

    Defence Minister: Repairs of Bulgaria's MiG Aircraft Cost as Much as 16 New Fighter Aircraft

    http://www.novinite.com/articles/167031/MiGs+Repair+%27Too+Expensive%27+-+Bulgaria+DefMin

    MiGs Repair 'Too Expensive' - Bulgaria DefMin

    Really ? Question Question Neutral

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  NationalRus on Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:15 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:http://www.bta.bg/en/c/DF/id/1030039?ModPagespeed=noscript

    Defence Minister: Repairs of Bulgaria's MiG Aircraft Cost as Much as 16 New Fighter Aircraft

    http://www.novinite.com/articles/167031/MiGs+Repair+%27Too+Expensive%27+-+Bulgaria+DefMin

    MiGs Repair 'Too Expensive' - Bulgaria DefMin

    Really ? Question Question Neutral

    yes really, if they are to far gone you dont just simlpy "repair" things, a genral overhall is needed which is nearly like rebuilding a new plane... in that case it would be sometimes smarter to buy a new one all together and sell the old one for scrap or canabilze 2/3 of them to maintain the other 1/3 a littel longer

    iran spend huge money and build a whole industry branch just to service ther F-14's

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:41 am

    Actually the real reason they are expensive is that for countries that have economic sanctions against Russia suddenly Russia is no longer a source of parts and support... so you have to approach other users and why on earth would they sell their spare parts to anyone?

    If they do it will be to make a large profit... hense expensive.


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Sat May 23, 2015 12:02 am

    Bulgarian Air Force Eyes Purchase of Used Fighters to Replace Russian MiGs

    Bulgarian Defense Minister Nikolai Nenchev has announced that the Air Force needs to begin a fighter procurement program involving the purchase of Western fighters and the refitting of Soviet craft in order to keep the Air Force from being permanently grounded, Bulgarian media have reported.

    Speaking before a parliamentary defense committee on Thursday, Nenchev noted that the Air Force must submit their plans for the purchase of used multirole fighters from NATO countries or from Sweden by late June.

    The Air Force plans to scrap its five 1950s-designed MiG-21s by the end of 2015, but it remains unclear what the country will do with its 12 MiG-29 air superiority fighters, a more recent design, dating back to the mid-1980s.

    Air Force Commander Major General Rumen Radev clarified that the Air Force would be looking to have several of the MiG-29 fleet's planes revamped without costing the Ministry of Defense any additional funds, with the Institute of Defense creating a program to extend the aircraft lifespan.

    But it remains unclear what the country plans to do to extend the fighters' engines, which will reach the exhaustion of their technical usability by mid-2016. Commenting that Bulgaria has yet to reach an agreement with Russian engine manufactures, Nenchev noted that the Air Force may receive the necessary technical assistance for servicing the MiGs from Poland, which may offer (presumably used) engines at half the cost. Poland had initially acquired 12 MiG-29 aircraft in the 1980s, and 32 more from the Czech Republic and Germany after 1990. Polish experts are expected to arrive later this month to carry out negotiations with the Air Force.

    Among the used Western aircraft being eyed by the Defense Ministry are American F-16s, Western European Eurofighters and Swedish Gripens. "All of this does not mean that we will see new planes by next year. The pace of progress in this project depends on what we will do with the MiG-29," Nenchev noted.

    Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borissov says that he hopes to maintain political and economic relations with Moscow at a high level, adding that he would like to see anti-Russian sanctions lifted before the end of the year.

    Bulgarian business newspaper Kapital has explained that the Air Forces ambitions for new aircraft may be checked by the country's coalition government. The Council of Ministers froze defense spending increases late last year, citing lack of funding. Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov and the country's Treasury have since voiced similar sentiments. Kapital notes that the substantial additional investment necessary for new aircraft are not on the horizon for the period between 2016-2018.

    The Bulgarian economy has faced stagnating growth rates over the past five years following the economic crisis of 2008-2009. A report by UNICEF from earlier this month revealed that nearly 28 percent of Bulgarians between 19-24 are not economically active. The country's economic recovery has been further hampered by EU sanctions and Russian countersanctions over the crisis in Ukraine, and by Bulgaria's decision to reject participating in the South Stream pipeline project, which would have given the country $600 million in annual transit fees, as well as favorable rates on the supply of natural gas.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150522/1022459956.html#ixzz3auJLzbcU

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:03 pm

    Bulgaria eyes Poland fighter deal to cut dependence on Russia


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:07 pm

    Problems with the repair of the Bulgarian MiG-29s


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:09 am

    lol, serves them right don't it.
    Sabotage Burgas-Alexandropolis oil pipeline to please West; no more oil pipeline
    Sabotage South Stream gas pipeline to please West; no more gas pipeline
    Sabotage Belene NPP project to please West; no more NPP
    Sabotage MiG repairs to please West; no more MiGs

    Bulgaria is run by NATO stooges, who sabotage their own country's chances at an independent foreign policy. If Hungary can propogate its own interests via co-operation with Russia, while remaining a NATO & EU member - there's no reason why Bulgaria can't in theory either.

    But of course if Senator McCain can fly to your country, criticize your government and by so doing instigate a political crisis in your country that ends up with the resignation of the president and his replacement with someone more palatable to Senator McCain - then your country has a problem; a big one.

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:50 pm

    Bulgaria is repairing engines of MiG-29s in Poland


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:10 am

    Bulgaria To Acquire New Fighter Jets by 2019

    WARSAW — The Bulgarian Air Force is aiming to replace its aging fleet of Soviet-designed fighter jets with new aircraft in the next three to three-and-a-half years, said Bulgaria’s Defense Minister Nikolay Nenchev, as reported by local news agency Novinite.

    The government commission, which was tasked with studying the available options, is expected to submit a report on the planned procurement by the end of March, according to Nenchev.

    The minister said the government is likely to sign a deal to acquire new multirole fighter jets by the end of this year. According to earlier reports, to date, the Bulgarian Defense Ministry has shortlisted three offers. These include the US F-16s, which were withdrawn from service; Sweden's Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

    The move is in line with the government’s plan to decrease Bulgaria’s dependency on Soviet- and Russian-made gear. When the country joined NATO in 2004, Sofia vowed to replace six of its Mikoyan MiG-21 fighters and purchase eight new aircraft by 2016.

    The Bulgarian government is aiming to increase its military spending from the current 1.3 percent of its gross domestic product to 2 percent by 2024. Under the plan, 20 percent of Bulgaria’s defense expenditure is to be allocated to acquisitions of new gear.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2016/01/22/bulgaria-acquire-new-fighter-jets-2019/79174700/


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:58 pm

    Bulgaria Approves Plan to Buy Fighter Jets, Patrol Vessels Worth $1.7Bln

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160330/1037219097/bulgaria-fighter-jets.html#ixzz44P0hGVAB


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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:40 pm

    Hahahaha... they didn't maintain their MiG-29s properly so now the mechanic bill is so high... their solution is to buy some expensive newer planes or an even older aircraft... I wonder how long they will last because if they didn't maintain their old planes, who is to say they will spend money on these newer or older planes?

    All planes are the same... if you don't do the maintainence then you need to spend big on replacement parts.

    Perhaps they are hoping with the service entry of the F-35 that there will be a lot of cheap F-16s on the market soon.

    The problem with that is that the F-35s will likely be very expensive so most countries might keep their existing aircraft longer than previously expected, or indeed they might save some money by reducing their maintainence spend on existing aircraft knowing they will soon be replaced... either way old F-16s will either cost more or will be dogs when they get them.

    Sanctions = self inflicted wounds.


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    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:29 pm

    George1 wrote:Bulgaria Approves Plan to Buy Fighter Jets, Patrol Vessels Worth $1.7Bln

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160330/1037219097/bulgaria-fighter-jets.html#ixzz44P0hGVAB


    they would be better buying new Mig-29M2/SMT, or second hand Su-27SM but it seems Bulgaria has cut off the thought of buying from Russia again due to EU/NATO pressure, they will no doubt buy old second hand F-16 which will useless, cost a fortune to purchase, and cost a fortune to maintain, or they will end up buying or leasing Jas Gripen, the problem with either is the fact pilots will have to learn a completely different system which will mean more training=more cost. Hence Mig-29M2/SMT would be perfect. To be honest i would rather see them buy Chinese aircraft than give their money to western nations or USA.

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  NationalRus on Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:38 pm

    god damn why is nobody realisitc, sell and scrap that BS, by some L-159B or M-346, CAS, air patrolling + training aircraft in one done!

    why the hell do they need anything more? air superpower bulgaria? ready for war against romania? lmao

    and if they want to play as support in some NATO war both of these aircraft's could do it too, they wont be doing much more then simple reconnaissance or some basic bombing anyway under any circumstances Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:37 pm

    I agree... one of the biggest fundamental flaws in NATO is what I called Fighter envy.


    Because every country within NATO also has their own military they feel the need to have their own military... but most countries can't afford all the bells and whistles... so they have the core products... the fighter planes and the tanks and APCS but not the expensive extras that only rich countries can afford like AWACS and JSTARS and decent transport aircraft of all sizes.

    That means when 10 NATO countries turn up in Kuwaite ready to fight Saddam only one country brings decent transport aircraft and AWACS and JSTARS etc etc and the other 9 countries bring their own fighter planes... so you have 6 or seven different types of fighter planes but only one type of AWACS and only a couple of examples.

    I have said before that these new NATO countries should not bother with expensive fighters and other shit other NATO countries already have in abundance... what they should be buying are transport aircraft of all types so when NATO next invades a country to steal whatever they want to steal at least they will contribute something useful to the coalition instead of some more second hand old model fighter plane.

    I think New Zealand should do the same... we got rid of our Skyhawks as they would be of no value in any conflict we might get involved with... what we should be doing is getting rid of our crappy C-130s and buy some Il-476s so we can actually transport decent payloads decent distances... our allies wont like that we bought Russian but who can afford half a billion for each C-17?


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Bulgarian Military

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      Current date/time is Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:24 pm