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    Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 16, 2016 5:02 pm

    Austin wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:As scary as that is, it may have to be. Good thing that tomahawk is subsonic, or it would be even more a threat.

    My suggestion would be scrap out of INF Treaty , Move Towards LOW Policy and Deploy Tactical Nukes on Kalingrad , Forward deploy Borei SSBN  , May be scrapping new start is not a bad idea its a useless treaty any ways

    INF is already dead just formal withdrawal is yet to come. I am sure Russians are about to test SRBM/IRBM. Maybe variant of Rubezh with less stages... as IRBM

    max steel
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    very interesting view of General Designer of MIT

    Post  max steel on Tue May 17, 2016 12:48 am

    Austin wrote:very interesting view of General Designer of MIT

    General designer MIT: US missile defense system can be converted to lock the Nuclear Forces

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160516/1434290900.html


    The larger issue here IS NOT much touted (or, rather, marketed) missile "defense" shield--that is not an insurmountable problem at all and, shield or no shield, all necessary targets will be destroyed in case of conflict. The problem here is different--Russia is worried about the use of launchers for very different, other than anti-ballistic, missiles. We are talking about the first strike weapons, which are medium and short range missiles. These are not "defensive" weapons. These are first-strike weapons.

    Putin's quote from Russian President's site:

    this is an obvious violation of the Short And Medium Range Missile Treaty, since these missile-launchers which will be deployed at the sites in Romania and Poland upon activation of the Radars there could easily be reconfigured for short and medium range missiles. This reconfiguration of the launchers could be done in a very short time and for us it will be impossible to see what is going on there. We will not be able to control (used as "monitor" semantics) it and this is an additional threat to us.

    US Missile Defense In Poland And Romania


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Flanky on Sat May 21, 2016 8:14 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Austin wrote:very interesting view of General Designer of MIT

    General designer MIT: US missile defense system can be converted to lock the Nuclear Forces

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160516/1434290900.html


    The larger issue here IS NOT much touted (or, rather, marketed) missile "defense" shield--that is not an insurmountable problem at all and, shield or no shield, all necessary targets will be destroyed in case of conflict. The problem here is different--Russia is worried about the use of launchers for very different, other than anti-ballistic, missiles. We are talking about the first strike weapons, which are medium and short range missiles. These are not "defensive" weapons.  These are first-strike weapons.

    Putin's quote from Russian President's site:

    this is an obvious violation of the Short And Medium Range Missile Treaty, since these missile-launchers which will be deployed at the sites in Romania and Poland upon activation of the Radars there could easily be reconfigured for short and medium range missiles. This reconfiguration of the launchers could be done in a very short time and for us it will be impossible to see what is going on there. We will  not be able to control (used as "monitor" semantics) it and this is an additional threat to us.  

    US Missile Defense In Poland And Romania

    Exactly... he pointed out the main problem. Because ICBMs are most vulnerable in the initial phase after start trying to reach space. If ABM system have enough range it could intercept such missile very easily... however if Russians would launch these from central Siberia there is no way ABM can intercept them so easily. However if these sites are reconfigured for short and medium range ballistic missiles - thats a totally differrent story as to their strategic value as first strike weapons.

    max steel
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  max steel on Sun May 22, 2016 2:06 am

    INF treaty is important to Russia since Russia does not think merely in terms of MIC's profits but really does care about her safety.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 2:11 am

    max steel wrote:INF treaty is important to Russia since Russia does not think merely in terms of MIC's profits but really does care about her safety.

    INF holds Russia back actually. While US is blatantly backtracking on the agreements with these missile defense systems (so called), Russia actually is put in a tough position since its counter measures either have to be massive in range which is just very costly and unproductive and or very short range and has to be quite close to the system. Without INF, Russia could just simply expand the ground based launch systems of Kalibr and even expand it to supersonic for striking ground targets, and creating a multi launch system for it and poof! there goes any advantage US had. They already placed cruise missiles and or nuclear missiles in Europe, so all it will do is force US to spend even greater amount to put more systems in Europe and Russia just continues to expand itself without having to break the piggy bank.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Viktor on Sun May 22, 2016 1:11 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    max steel wrote:INF treaty is important to Russia since Russia does not think merely in terms of MIC's profits but really does care about her safety.

    INF holds Russia back actually.  While US is blatantly backtracking on the agreements with these missile defense systems (so called), Russia actually is put in a tough position since its counter measures either have to be massive in range which is just very costly and unproductive and or very short range and has to be quite close to the system.  Without INF, Russia could just simply expand the ground based launch systems of Kalibr and even expand it to supersonic for striking ground targets, and creating a multi launch system for it and poof! there goes any advantage US had.  They already placed cruise missiles and or nuclear missiles in Europe, so all it will do is force US to spend even greater amount to put more systems in Europe and Russia just continues to expand itself without having to break the piggy bank.

    Russia can produce massive amounts of cruise missiles with the stated range of 500km with its fuel tank almost at low point enabling them to increase its range momentarely.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 1:56 pm

    That is what it will have to do till US decides to go that one extra mile that will cause downfall of INF. I am hoping they will be able to come up with a system that can launch more than two of them though per vehicle.

    Vann7
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Vann7 on Tue May 24, 2016 2:41 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    max steel wrote:INF treaty is important to Russia since Russia does not think merely in terms of MIC's profits but really does care about her safety.

    INF holds Russia back actually.  While US is blatantly backtracking on the agreements with these missile defense systems (so called), Russia actually is put in a tough position since its counter measures either have to be massive in range which is just very costly and unproductive and or very short range and has to be quite close to the system.  Without INF, Russia could just simply expand the ground based launch systems of Kalibr and even expand it to supersonic for striking ground targets, and creating a multi launch system for it and poof! there goes any advantage US had.  They already placed cruise missiles and or nuclear missiles in Europe, so all it will do is force US to spend even greater amount to put more systems in Europe and Russia just continues to expand itself without having to break the piggy bank.

    This is why Russia needs to create a world issue against United States. To give an Ultimatum
    that they either remove their missiles launchers capable to be used offensively against Russia in Romania or else that Russia will withraw from the Nuclear treaty with Americans and start deploying hundreds of long range kalibers missiles in Kalingrad ,Cuba , but also deploy nuclear long range missiles in IRAN too ,armed with nuclear warheads. But also start deploying nuclear missiles in Space , so that Russia can strike any part of US just withing 5 minutes with a nuclear warhead. Only When they feel a pressure ,that something really bad could happen to their security ,they will back down and retreat .

    But if Mr Putin does nothing ,and just limit to just complain and be so sorry ,and just allow Americans to continue moving lethal missiles ,Air defenses on its borders  ,the last one can be used to attack Putin presidential plane for example. (yes they can do that and later blame it on a happy trigger general),it will seriously damage the national security of Russia territory. and it could even encourage Americans to give it a try ,to a massive first nuclear preventive attack at the first major conflict between them .

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:13 pm

    Moscow sees deployment of US interceptor missiles in Romania as INF treaty violation

    More:
    http://tass.com/politics/901459


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