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    Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:33 pm

    If any part of a US ABM system appeared in the Ukraine I am pretty sure the first thing the Russians will do is pull out of the new START treaty and start increasing production of ICBM warheads to a level they feel would be uninterceptible... probably about 3,000.

    I suspect they might also tear up the INF treaty and start putting IRBMs on their European borders... they already have SAMs able to deal with this class of missile so if the US did the same it would not matter that much...


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:If any part of a US ABM system appeared in the Ukraine I am pretty sure the first thing the Russians will do is pull out of the new START treaty and start increasing production of ICBM warheads to a level they feel would be uninterceptible... probably about 3,000.

    I suspect they might also tear up the INF treaty and start putting IRBMs on their European borders... they already have SAMs able to deal with this class of missile so if the US did the same it would not matter that much...
    This will be good and enough , US knows Russia will take actions like that , this could lead to a war , the question is why US want to Pull the trigger , is she want war that easy way , that's Disgusting.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  max steel on Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:26 pm

    usa aegis can intercept IRBMs successfully . Russia should rather opt for Iksander irbms with nuclear warheads .their sams cant intercept iksanders .

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:55 am

    This will be good and enough , US knows Russia will take actions like that , this could lead to a war , the question is why US want to Pull the trigger , is she want war that easy way , that's Disgusting.

    More likely the US will piss its pants because instead of submitting the Russians have dared to take action in response.

    The US prefers to deal with cowards and the weak and thinks it can treat anyone this way... after all they are the only super power left so it is their right and responsibility to make other countries bow to their will and if they are good in time they will get the privilege to be slightly more like the US than they are now... but only if they do everything in their power to keep the US rich and powerful now.



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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:19 pm

    max steel wrote:usa aegis can intercept IRBMs successfully . Russia should rather opt for Iksander irbms with nuclear warheads .their sams cant intercept iksanders .

    Their ABM systems cannot stop cruise missiles as they fly too low and too fast and at an unpredictable course, much like Iskander (which flies at a quasi ballistic path). So long range cruise missiles may be ideal in the future for Russia. If they dump the INF treaty because how US is operating, then Iskanders carrying R-500's in numbers, that carry a nuclear warhead, would be ideal.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:13 pm

    SM-3 and SM-6 patriot like missiles have not even virtually a chance intercepting IRBM's or ICBM's they are there soley to intercept cruise missiles and the launching plattforms to sustain their domination over entire EU and their logistical and nuclear facilities which are illegally on german,netherland, italian, turkish soil not to mention the illegal nukes in France and Britian which are not obligated by Start treaty despite being NATO member meaning US slave which makes them indirectly US nukes.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:28 am

    Werewolf wrote:SM-3 and SM-6 patriot like missiles have not even virtually a chance intercepting IRBM's or ICBM's they are there soley to intercept cruise missiles and the launching plattforms to sustain their domination over entire EU and their logistical and nuclear facilities which are illegally on german,netherland, italian, turkish soil not to mention the illegal nukes in France and Britian which are not obligated by Start treaty despite being NATO member meaning US slave which makes them indirectly US nukes.

    Nope wolf usa never claimed sm series can shoot down icbm's . Rest SM-3 and SM-6 can successfully shoot down SRBMs MRBMs because ballistic missiles follow a predicted trajectory . Maneuverable BMs like Iksander can't be intercepted by ussa defense . Btw what about eruopean defenses ? France posses its own missile defense system . They are meant for terminal phase interception . REst they have MIM-104 Patriot( PAC-3) for SRBMs .




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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:01 am

    max steel wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:SM-3 and SM-6 patriot like missiles have not even virtually a chance intercepting IRBM's or ICBM's they are there soley to intercept cruise missiles and the launching plattforms to sustain their domination over entire EU and their logistical and nuclear facilities which are illegally on german,netherland, italian, turkish soil not to mention the illegal nukes in France and Britian which are not obligated by Start treaty despite being NATO member meaning US slave which makes them indirectly US nukes.

    Nope wolf usa never claimed sm series can shoot down icbm's . Rest SM-3 and SM-6 can successfully shoot down SRBMs MRBMs because ballistic missiles follow a predicted trajectory . Maneuverable BMs like Iksander can't be intercepted by ussa defense . Btw what about eruopean defenses ? France posses its own missile defense system . They are meant for terminal phase interception . REst they have MIM-104 Patriot( PAC-3) for SRBMs .




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    Now hold on, we cant say they can successfully intercept them. Let us not forget that in recent Saudi shootdown of the ScudB ended up using 2 missiles to take down that scud. Saturation attack would be a problem, but so would an attack using anything more modern.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  victor1985 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:30 am

    there isnt just the solution of long range cruise missile. because short range dont work. the blast would be too close. but...... who said that a nuke must necesarry have 1 kg of radioactive fuel? one for a emp blast of just 30 km would be perfect

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  victor1985 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:34 am

    nuclear warheads can work for small target too. think that the amount of nuclear fuel for a blast of 30 meters is so tiny and leave space for a lot of equipments around. also targeting land based targets the emp effect would not be so high so would not reach own troops

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:57 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:SM-3 and SM-6 patriot like missiles have not even virtually a chance intercepting IRBM's or ICBM's they are there soley to intercept cruise missiles and the launching plattforms to sustain their domination over entire EU and their logistical and nuclear facilities which are illegally on german,netherland, italian, turkish soil not to mention the illegal nukes in France and Britian which are not obligated by Start treaty despite being NATO member meaning US slave which makes them indirectly US nukes.

    Nope wolf usa never claimed sm series can shoot down icbm's . Rest SM-3 and SM-6 can successfully shoot down SRBMs MRBMs because ballistic missiles follow a predicted trajectory . Maneuverable BMs like Iksander can't be intercepted by ussa defense . Btw what about eruopean defenses ? France posses its own missile defense system . They are meant for terminal phase interception . REst they have MIM-104 Patriot( PAC-3) for SRBMs .




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    Now hold on, we cant say they can successfully intercept them.  Let us not forget that in recent Saudi shootdown of the ScudB ended up using 2 missiles to take down that scud.  Saturation attack would be a problem, but so would an attack using anything more modern.

    How many missiles they need to use to succes interception does not matter, they do not plan to create worlds best ABM, they purpose is to comprimise russias capability to deflect NATO's attack against Russia, so that russia can not destroy NATO logistics and nuclear weapons in Europe which majority are US nukes using EU countries as human shields. If they for their own shame have to use even 10 ABM missiles for every tactical nuke, they will happily do that to achieve their vile goal to conquer russia and the worlds richest country.

    The point is to completley make russia incapable of responding to US attack in proxy war against russia. Russia will never launch ICBM's against US even when NATO slaves are going on russian soil and committing genocide, not under putin at least, not with to many zionists in russia which never have lost their caste of jewish families taking part in politics and government.

    Russia out of necessity will have to use small yield tactical nukes of just 1-25 kt warheads which is just military use and they will be around 300 at least from the old NATO plans which were counted as the sufficient amount to deal with such circumstances. Russia must react, because otherwise they will need to use more nukes, with bigger warheads which the death count won't be majority of military but will end up with majority of civilians killed and then there is no future for Russia and Europe, such thing they will never accept even if they knew that they are the evil side who started and allowed this nuclear genocide to happen.

    This plans are in full order and set in stone, the US this time will not back down, there will be nukes used and i do not recommend being in Germany, Italy, France, Britian, Netherland, Turkey or Rostov region in next 25 years. I don't care how many think that this is just conspiracy, all political and military movements point out to exactly this scenario and not any other scenario.

    Operation Gladio and similiar Operations openly planned in 80's and all NATO soldiers during that time had to participate in wargames for such an Operation with Nuclear use by provoking Russia (Soviet Union). It won't be rosey for entire European continent, after that i can assure Madeviel times practice and lynch mob killing of responsible politicians, MSM "journalists" and any other establishment slave that acted against own citizens and i will welcome such behavior, blood for blood. If they do not fear you they do not work for you.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:07 pm

    This ABM shield is giving them false sense of security. Failure rates in tests are known (and high) and Russia does not even use Scud B anymore. Russia would indeed use nukes if attacked and even lower yield tactical nukes are enough and abm system wont be able to take them down, as most are in forms of Iskander (quasi ballistic) and cruise missiles. These ABM systems were designed around the times of old IRBM and MRBM systems that are no longer around. Future for Russia are Iskander and cruise missile - that is evident. So they would reach their destination, no problem. But yes, I imagine many in Russia would rather not use ICBM even if attacked, which is stupid and pointless.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:17 pm

    sepheronx wrote: But yes, I imagine many in Russia would rather not use ICBM even if attacked, which is stupid and pointless.
    If it escalates enough there is no point not to.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:24 pm

    There are people in Russia who think they shouldnt nuke if they are even attacked. These same people I imagine would go running away fist sign of trouble or quickly give up to the enemy. So hopefully these people do not have any say or control over Russias policies and nukes.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  max steel on Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:19 pm

    so you're saying usa is playing these wargames becasuse they have taken it for granted that russians willn't fire their nukes ? Sounds preposterous .

    US Military Incapable of Overcoming Defenses of Russia, China



    The US military has over-invested into weapons which work well for launching attacks on countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria but are quite ineffective for countries like Russia and China, media outlet Flight Global reports.

    The US military has over-invested in purchasing short- range direct attack bombs and has under-invested in the long-range, stealth and precision-guided weapons.

    Due to that, the United States cannot overcome the defenses of such countries as Russia, China and Iran(basically russian defenses only ). This conclusion was reached by experts of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, reports media outlet Flight Global.

    The report points out that from 2001 to 2014 the US Department of Defense bought 304,750 weapons for direct action with a radius of up to 50 lesions nautical miles (80.47 km), which accounted for 96% of all weapons purchase.

    During the same period only 7109 long-range weapons were purchased. They can blast the radius of 400 nautical miles (643.74 kilometers).


    The experts concluded that the short-range weapons are only effective when the aircraft can get close to the target but it is impossible at carrying out large-scale military operations against the enemy, which has high-precision weapons.



    This report, in fact, confirms what US generals have been saying over the past few years, that the US military investment is aimed at supporting military operations in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria where “planes can fly and drop bombs without consequences,” writes Flight Global.

    At the same time, such weapons are ineffective in the hypothetical operations which may involve Russia, China and Iran .


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150628/1023948515.html#ixzz3eTbpfyJN



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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:22 pm

    US Missile Defense in Europe 'Directed Against' Russia's Iskander System


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:04 pm

    George1 wrote:US Missile Defense in Europe 'Directed Against' Russia's Iskander System


    Well i have heard it several times That iksanders xant be intercepted etc etc . But where is the proof ? Why one should believe that iksanders cant be intercpeted by amerikan interceptors and does it really follow quasi-ballistic path ?

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:05 pm

    max steel wrote:
    George1 wrote:US Missile Defense in Europe 'Directed Against' Russia's Iskander System


    Well i have heard it several times That iksanders xant be intercepted etc etc . But where is the proof ? Why one should believe that iksanders cant be intercpeted by amerikan interceptors and does it really follow quasi-ballistic path ?

    We can assume. And yes, Iskander follows a quasi ballistic path. Or they wouldnt have bothered to develop it. It also launches the R-500 cruise missile through a different launcher. Why do we assume the american system wont be able to intercept it? Because it already has trouble trying to take down a scud b which follows a typical ballistic path and old as shit.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  kvs on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:55 am

    George1 wrote:US Missile Defense in Europe 'Directed Against' Russia's Iskander System

    Orwellian revisionist tripe. The Isakanders were deployed after the NATO ABM system was deployed. The original excuse
    for the NATO ABM was the hypothetical missile threat from Iran. Russia never bought this BS excuse and deployed the Iskanders
    to counterbalance. Now NATO's totalitarian media is spouting about this being the reason for their ABM.

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:22 am

    US Decision to Keep Missile Defense in EU Confirms Moscow’s Worst Fears

    The recent decision by Washington to continue deploying elements of missile defense systems in Europe even after the historic nuclear deal with Iran was reached, confirmed Russia's "worst fears," Russian envoy to the European Union Vladimir Chizhov said Wednesday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Last week, Iran and six world powers reached an agreement obliging Tehran to guarantee the peaceful nature of its nuclear activities in exchange for sanctions relief. Shortly after the deal was signed, National Security Advisor to the US Vice President Colin Kahl said that the US ballistic missile defense systems were still necessary in Europe despite the agreement.

    Following the move, Moscow expressed concerns over the purposes of US missile defense systems in Europe, which Russia sees as a threat to its national security.

    “Europe is an empty shell when it comes to the draft of the European missile defense system, because it is an exclusively US initiative… Now there is a reasonable question: if Iran is no longer a threat, even if neither a partner nor an enemy, then what’s the use of [missile defense system] construction? The US stance on the issue is notable and confirms our worst fears," Chizhov said in an interview with the Rossiya 24 television channel.

    The European Union does not have a clear and common position on the issue, and it did not exist either even before the deal with Tehran was reached, the diplomat added.

    Before the nuclear deal between Iran and the P5+1 group of world powers, comprising Russia, the United States, China, the United Kingdom, France and Germany, was reached, the West had long been accusing Iran of developing nuclear weapons under the guise of a peaceful nuclear program, and imposed severe sanctions against the country.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150723/1024938216.html#ixzz3ghG3oXSI


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  Militarov on Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:25 am

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:

    Orwellian revisionist tripe.   The Isakanders were deployed after the NATO ABM system was deployed.   The original excuse
    for the NATO ABM was the hypothetical missile threat from Iran.    Russia never bought this BS excuse and deployed the Iskanders
    to counterbalance.   Now NATO's totalitarian media is spouting about this being the reason for their ABM.  

    Yeah, coz intercepting Iranian ICBMs from Romania, Poland and Spain has alot of sense. #not

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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:23 pm

    Putin: Russia to develop strike systems capable of penetrating any missile defense shield

    According to the Russian president, the true goal of the US missile defense shield is to neutralize Russia’s nuclear potential

    SOCHI, November 10. /TASS/. Russia will be developing strike systems capable of penetrating any missile defense shield, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday.

    "We’ll be working on the anti-missile defense system as well, but at the first stage, as we have said on many occasions, we’ll also be working on strike systems capable of penetrating any anti-missile defense shield," Putin said at a meeting on the development of the Russian Armed Forces.

    Putin said the meeting would discuss the development of such weapon systems that would determine the outlook of the Russian Armed Forces for the next decade and will become a response to the challenges confronted by Russia.

    According to the Russian president, the true goal of the US missile defense shield is to neutralize Russia’s nuclear potential.

    "The references to the Iranian and North Korean nuclear threats only disguise true plans. And their true purpose is to neutralize the strategic nuclear potential of other nuclear states, except the United States and its allies, first of all, the nuclear potential of our country, Russia," Putin said.

    The United States and its allies continue building the global missile defense system, the Russian president said.

    "Moreover, unfortunately, they are not taking into account either our concerns or proposals for cooperation," Putin added.

    Russia has been assured on many occasions that the European segment of the US missile defense shield is developing in the wake of a threat from Iranian ballistic missiles, the Russian president said.

    "However, we know that the situation with the Iranian nuclear problem has been settled and the relevant agreements have been signed. Moreover, they have been approved by the relevant parliaments. Nevertheless, the work on anti-missile defense systems is continuing," Putin said.

    Therefore, the references to the Iranian and North Korean nuclear threats are only a cover for the US true plans, the Russian president said.

    "And the US true goals are to neutralize the strategic nuclear potential of other nuclear states, except the United States and its allies, first of all, the nuclear potential of our country, Russia. Hence the desire to get decisive supremacy with all ensuing consequences," Putin said.

    "We have said on many occasions that Russia will take all necessary measures to strengthen the potential of its strategic nuclear forces," the Russian president said.


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:20 pm

    Moscow sees deployment of US missile defense system in Romania as violation of INF Treaty

    On December 18 construction works were completed in Deveselu in Romania to deploy US MK 41 launchers

    MOSCOW, December 24. /TASS/. Deployment of US MK 41 launchers in Romania is a violation of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, Russian Foreign Ministry official spokesperson Maria Zakharova told a briefing on Thursday.

    ‘We have repeatedly expressed our point of view and estimates of US missile defense plans and noted that they run counter to tasks of strengthening international security and stability," she said. "However, the United States and their allies persistently continue to carry out this destabilizing and dangerous program, and the arguments they use are becoming less and less believable," she added.

    "On December 18 construction works were completed in Deveselu in Romania. After testing and fixing equipment, the facility will enter the stage of operational readiness in the first half of 2016," Zakharova said. "Consequently, the second stage of adaptive approach to deploying elements of US global missile defense system in Europe was completed."

    "MK 41 vertical launching systems are part of the missile defense system in the aforementioned place. They are used by US Navy ships for firing interceptor missiles and Tomahawk winged medium-range missiles," Zakharova said. "This gives us grounds to consider their appearance on the ground as a direct violation of INF Treaty provisions by the United States," she added.


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  George1 on Thu May 12, 2016 1:24 pm

    Romania's Missile Defense System to Go Live Despite Russian Objections

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039472039/Romanias-Missile-Defense-Systemto-Live.html#ixzz48RKb7iNf



    Russia Could Drop START Treaty Due to New Air Defense Systems in Europe

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039489776/russia-start-air-defense.html#ixzz48RKVoEL9


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    Re: Russia's response to NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 12, 2016 2:41 pm

    I got a good idea: why not leave start, but don't say anything? The US openly lies regarding placement of systems and missiles while violating imf treaty, so why not violate both as well and just lie like US. They will complain but they already do. At least America won't know what Russia has/building so can't counter it. Russia is too honest imo. Build ground launch Kalibr missiles with a larger fuel tank and the newer fuel so it can reach from Eastern Russia to US coast, and deeper inside Russia to Romania and Poland.

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