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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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    kvs
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:04 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/53654/

    Russian telecom company T8 has developed technology to transmit signals at rate of 200 gigabit/second (two channel)
    over a distance of 500 km through a single standard optical fiber without repeaters. Previous efforts used non standard
    optical fibers or repeaters.

    Even using the best optical fiber on the market the attenuation of the signal is 80 dB (i.e. by a factor of 100 million)
    over a distance of 500 km.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:54 am

    hahaha, I just thought of something.

    Maybe Russia could use its mass amounts of networking as well as its power grids/server clusters to mine bitcoins or create their own cryptocurrency, like a digiruble, and use this to purchase goods from outside as well. Just a thought.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  indochina on Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:34 am

    according to what I know Russia have smartphones Yotaphone , famous Keybersky software, Yandex browser, processor Elbrus 8C, and Marussia supercar, civilian aircraft Superjet 100 and Vodka alcohol

    Asf
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Asf on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:19 am

     famous Keybersky software,

    Kaspersky?


     and Vodka alcohol

    this, comrade! we even feed it to our domestic bears, but don't tell it to animal protectors

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:25 pm

    Asf wrote:
     famous Keybersky software,

    Kaspersky?
    I'm sure that is what he meant...

    Russia has a much larger industry than that... Just to let you know, Marussia went bankrupt last year (maybe a little before then).

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:42 pm

    Good. The company is prime example how shoving money at something and trying to make it look 'advanced' (as some people here say) will not work. While cheap vehicle makers like Avtovaz is actually becoming successful.

    That said, Marussias automotive manufacturer was in Finland....

    Russian tech industry is huge but still young/untapped at full potential.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:09 pm

    Russia has the Elbrus CPU. The only functional VLIW design on the planet. Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about. It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:12 pm

    No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:05 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires. Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:16 am

    kvs wrote:Russia has the Elbrus CPU.  The only functional VLIW design on the planet.   Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.  

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about.  It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.
    It thought that the i860 had a VLIW design... Didn't it? Obviously it is barely used today, but still....

    The consumer market is great to get into, but then again, so are the server, professional, and defense markets... I think that Russian companies should go for the latter(s) more than the ridiculous inconsistent consumer market. Companies like AMD are also getting out of it, wonder why? - Intel, and because the server market which they are aiming for will be more consistent $ wise. Plus, the consumer market is morphing into the mobile market, and is very tense thanks to competition of ARM, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and even VIA etc...

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:40 am

    Mike E wrote:
    kvs wrote:Russia has the Elbrus CPU.  The only functional VLIW design on the planet.   Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.  

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about.  It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.
    It thought that the i860 had a VLIW design... Didn't it? Obviously it is barely used today, but still....

    The consumer market is great to get into, but then again, so are the server, professional, and defense markets... I think that Russian companies should go for the latter(s) more than the ridiculous inconsistent consumer market. Companies like AMD are also getting out of it, wonder why? - Intel, and because the server market which they are aiming for will be more consistent $ wise. Plus, the consumer market is morphing into the mobile market, and is very tense thanks to competition of ARM, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and even VIA etc...

    And its VLIW was not successful.  Back then, they couldn't get the power out of it like MCST has with Elbrus.  If Intel decided that they wanted to concentrate on it, they could, but the CISC is what is making them the money, so why fix what isn't broken?  It would be pointless for Intel just like it would be pointless for MCST to go the CISC route.  They are more familiar with RISC (Thanks to SPARC of course) type processors with x86 emulation.  It is like Loongsong that decided to go the MIPS route instead as well.  So three companies (MCST, Intel, Loongsong) are making processors for a specific market.  While Intel will dominate the day to day use and many HPC systems thanks to its ownership of Fortran and the fact that many still use Windows (and windows server), where its architecture of the CISC design is taken advantage of, MCST and Loongsong rely on KNE/BSD in order to take advantage of their processors.  I guess the 1 up of this is the fact that most Linux and Unix (excluding OSX) distro's are free and open, thus development can be much cheaper.  Downside is that development for it has to be relied upon by companies willing to work with it, and individuals.  While Microsoft has significant amounts of money pouring into the market, where they can pretty much take control.  Hence why 90% of the world uses Microsoft and thus, have to use either Intel or AMD because both are CISC, both are the only chips that works under a Microsoft environment, well, besides Windows PE which ARM can work under...but that is a lousy OS (we use them at work for various gadgets.  Blah!).  Only way VLIW or MIPS or any other type, requires x86 emulation, and well, there is a major drop in performance in regards to this.  For Elbrus, I read it is somewhere around 60 - 80% of performance loss simply for emulation, Loongsongs latest processor has around 70%.  That is quite the massive drop and will effect its performance under Windows environment.

    The whole purpose for MCST move to Elbrus 8 was specifically for server grade and workstation processors, not your commonly used day to day desktop variants (although, it could.  As you can run pretty much any Distro in Linux with it).  Ministry of Industry and Trade has put forward the money for its investment for a specific reason.  Rostec and T-Platforms(dunno why them) have decided to go the ARM route due to being cheaper to produce (even if they themselves become a fabless design facility), and doing so to capitalize on the Russian consumer market demand for everything mobile gadgetry.  Or maybe T-Platforms is looking into ARM cluster systems like AMD is.  Who knows at the moment.

    I think AMD is going the smart route. They are still going with the consumer market, but in the lower profile and cheaper to run style (their APU's were aimed at the laptop market mostly, and I think are quite successful). While they are also keeping in line with their Opteron series processors to still have their nitch in the server sectors, while doing some interesting R&D like ARM based Opteron (much looking forward to this. Only problem with ARM is that they are not superscalar in hardware only software at the moment). MCST is a FABless plant like AMD, but MCST is going based upon government demand, not really consumer, but created the E2K architecture specifically for multitude of rolls and making it cheaper/easier to producer later on. For instance, Elbrus 2C+, is the Elbrus E2K core, but is a dual core, with 4 DSP cores. It was (rumored) to be the processor for the AESA radar for PAK FA, and possibly other systems. Elbrus 4C was designe, by demands of the Industry and Trade ministry, for a processor to be used in industrial equipment and environments. So for instance, automation, CNC systems, etc (heck, that is total overpowered, since we use $1M German printers at work, that still use Win 95 and Intel Pentium III processors). Elbrus 8 is being pushed by Ministry of Industry and Trade for workstations and Servers. Since MCST is government owned and their work is tied specifically to the governments demands, we may not see MCST move to the consumer market like many wish for. They may be hard to get and only used for specific groups like defense agencies, intelligence agencies, government employees, etc. T-Platforms and its subsidiary, Baikal, is a private enterprise. Add in Rusnano and Rostec, two Not for Profit agencies run by the government, have invested in Baikal processors, which are just their own iteration of ARM (with possible some differences). So for the general market, it is really up to T-Platforms of Russia. There is Multiclet, Elvees, Module and Mikran. But the problem with these are: Multiclet is a non Vonnewman processor, working under the concept of cell processing and only to be used in specific applications (already being used), Elvees and Module, and Mikran concentrates mostly on SIMD development. There is of course other ones, but they are university development.

    This breakdown is pretty hard. Cant believe I remember this stuff. But anyway, it is due to the lack of private enterprises really pushing for the development, that is why we may not see them in day to day use. The development really is coming out mostly from just government agencies or groups who are making specialized chips like Elvees, Mikran and Module. Only one is T-Platforms, since they are private, that will jump to the regular consumer use. They made it clear that there are about 700,000 devices (consumer grade) sold per year to the government alone (not to mention rest of the country) and T-Platforms is hoping to capitalize on that with the ARM development. So they may aim at the low profile market (small computers) and mobile devices.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:26 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires.   Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?


    Soft power is the only way to create your own civilization. Create your own civilization is your only way to remain sovereign and not been absorbed by others.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:58 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires.   Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?


    Soft power is the only way to create your own civilization. Create your own civilization is your only way to remain sovereign and not been absorbed by others.

    We have a different interpretation of what soft power is. Here in Canada all the consumer goods are made in China, Korea or Japan.
    Soft power to me implies control of the media message and economic dependence. Clearly Canada is not a vassal of China.

    Russia's economy is too diversified and advanced to be considered some banana republic variant dependent on a single commodity
    for export and easily manipulated by foreign powers. The west had its chance during the 1990s, but that ship has sailed.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Rmf on Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:18 pm

    this is a bit oftopicking but soft power - my a s s ....

    its very well rehersed agenda ,agressive and targets animalistic impulses ,backed by heavy economic and military might.
    its nothing new , same examples are in history ...

    Rome at the height of its power was a pure military dictatorship plain and simple ...it actually wasnt a democracy!!!
    Although senate still existed and Romans untill the end called their country a - Republic , and rallied behind SPQR banner (senatus populisque romanorum -the senate and the roman people) , roman empire was, since its middle age as it grew ,a -military dictatorship .
    It actually expanded for some time as military dictatorship, untill it started to collapse at ever accelerated pace...

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:14 am

    Created the first Russian SDN-controller
    Center for Applied Research of computer networks (TSPIKS) announced the creation of the controller software-configurable network RUN OS (Russian networks operation systems). The source code of the controller is laid out in the open access service on Github. Third-party developers can create applications based on it through a flexible resource management enterprise network security management based on any corporate policies for managing the integration of wired and wireless networks , and so on. d.
    Among the main technical characteristics RUN OS declared the processing speed at the level of 30 million flows per second, while the installation of a new compound - 45 ms, support 1 thousand. Switches, control of the GUI. According TSPIKS in RUN OS implemented load balancing, coherent vision of the entire network, work with distributed network applications, security and resistance to external loads.
    Developers assure that today is the fastest SDN-controller in the world.
    Its performance is achieved through the use of multicore and multiprocessor systems. It involves a set of network applications - both from the world of traditional networks and new: L2 / L3-routing based on quality of service, multi-threaded routing, filtering, traffic, work with network protocols (ARP, DNS, DHCP, BGP), network address translation ( NAT), load balancing, virtualization, networking, anti-DDoS, verification of network integration with data center management.
    RUN OS is primarily targeted at the corporate segment. Its consumer audience to see TSPIKS network administrators and engineers, data center, telecom operators, service providers, as well as students in "Network Technologies", researchers in the field of computer networks and the development of promising network technology.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:21 pm

    Photo of the Day! The first batch of Elbrus-8C and Southbridge KPI-2 ready for testing!

    8-core microprocessor "Elbrus-8C" created by "MCST" in Process 28 nm. It contains 8 universal cores architecture "Elbrus" third generation. Each core has 2 cache of 512 KB. Cache Level 3 16 MB is shared by all cores. The microprocessor includes a built-in 4-channel memory controller type DDR3-1600. 3 high-speed duplex channels LVDS with a capacity of 8 GB / sec in each direction for the organization of a 4-processor systems on a single motherboard. The frequency of 1.3 GHz microprocessor. 249.6 Gflops performance on 32-bit floating-point numbers. Microprocessor compatible with the new south bridge "KPI-2"

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Viktor on Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:56 pm

    Epic russia russia russia




    Elbrus-8C and KPI-2 motherboards ready for testing

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:09 pm

    Superb!

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:23 pm

    Industry and Trade payed something like 880M Rubles for this processors development in 2011 (so it didn't take them too long to come up with something). Apparently MCST is interested to get into consumer market but needs the funds first. Rumor has it that three companies who make/sells/assembles computers in Russia will have access to the Elbrus Processors: Aquos, Kraftway and a third one (cant remember name). I can see monoblock PC's being big that run this processor with a decent OS like Arch Linux, Mint, Ubuntu, Debian or even Synergy (when that comes out, it will have a big impact on large industries in Russia since it is made by large industries).

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:17 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Photo of the Day! The first batch of Elbrus-8C and Southbridge KPI-2 ready for testing!

    8-core microprocessor "Elbrus-8C" created by "MCST" in Process 28 nm. It contains 8 universal cores architecture "Elbrus" third generation. Each core has 2 cache of 512 KB. Cache Level 3 16 MB is shared by all cores. The microprocessor includes a built-in 4-channel memory controller type DDR3-1600. 3 high-speed duplex channels LVDS with a capacity of 8 GB / sec in each direction for the organization of a 4-processor systems on a single motherboard. The frequency of 1.3 GHz microprocessor. 249.6 Gflops performance on 32-bit floating-point numbers. Microprocessor compatible with the new south bridge "KPI-2"

    Super. I would buy one of these quad socket 32 core systems if I could. Russia can now have a world level server hardware production.
    It should be highlighted how impressive this achievement is considering where Russia was 10 years ago and the architecture of the
    Elbrus. It is a unique Russian VLIW design developed during the 1970s and 80s for mainframes and which has now been integrated
    on a single piece of silicon.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  r111 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:12 pm

    FABs are easy enough. Dont have to chase Intel et al in race to sub 10nm. ~40-32nm is plenty good for pretty much anything. China will gladly build these for us.

    F* the rights - if Intel refuses the lic, make IA64 CPUs of our own. Ditto for ARM and general RISC (which we have great deal of now-how with, going back to USSR). Add FPGA and some PIC-like stuff.

    Take Linux or FreeBSD and throw some $$$ at making a nice desktop distro out of it. Heck, Apple did it with FreeBSD and made off like bandits. Mandate use of these in gov and mil sector.

    All that will be left are few SW packages: image & video editing, CAD. We're good at coding Smile

    Less glorious stuff - like discretes, are piece of cake.

    USSR went through much more serious industrialization effort in the 30s and we did it. Saved us in WWII. Yes, we've been pampered too much and young generation is even more so. But we HAVE to do it.

    Waiting for West to cozy up is an ez thing to do, taking control of our destiny into our own hands is the RIGHT thing to do.


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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:36 am

    sepheronx wrote:Industry and Trade payed something like 880M Rubles for this processors development in 2011 (so it didn't take them too long to come up with something).  Apparently MCST is interested to get into consumer market but needs the funds first.  Rumor has it that three companies who make/sells/assembles computers in Russia will have access to the Elbrus Processors: Aquos, Kraftway and a third one (cant remember name).  I can see monoblock PC's being big that run this processor with a decent OS like Arch Linux, Mint, Ubuntu, Debian or even Synergy (when that comes out, it will have a big impact on large industries in Russia since it is made by large industries).

    Good.. this is what Russia should have done 10 years ago.. so they now will be at the level of INTEL.. lol
    But still is great news.  Smile   Will LOVE to see the computer released for personal family use.. with linux and complete
    Operating System with all the bells and whisler of windows 7.. i could get one for navigating safely on Internet without NSA watching my emails or spying on you.   Another thing i hope Russia works is on Video Cards.. that thing is extremely important not only for gaming but professional graphics. Something like that ,combined with a very decent CPU ,and advertising from professional graphics ,will raise eyebrows in the west.. Laughing  Russia have no idea the HUGE business they will make by creating a decent competition to INTEL and Microsoft OS.. advertising their computers as totally safe ,free of NSA Spying and free of malware and viruses.. with the OS free and software industry in Russia will take off.  That will be Huge.. The entire world will celebrate the end of Apple ,microsoft and intel monopoly.. and in my opinion that will be the ultimate sign of Russia becoming the new Land of innovation ,freedom and opportunities and the most interesting place in the world to study science ,graphics and computers..
    IF Russia can do that it will pull a lot of world talent ,including the migration of Russian engineers who works at Intel in US ,wanting to join Russia semiconductor industry . Very Happy  

    In my opinion Russia most money should be spend in 1)Space program.. 2) Semi conductor industry.. No more nukes need.. and Screw the sports,and the funding of culture ..The things that really  impact society is technology that is cool ,fun and helps people to organize and become more creative .

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:41 am

    Couple of news from MCST:

    MCST is preparing the release of motherboards based on the processor Elbrus-2GM produced on Micron
    Moscow, Zelenograd: December 25, 2014 - JSC "MCST", a developer of high-performance universal Russian microprocessors and computer systems, announces the launch of a pilot production of compact motherboards "Monokub-M" on the basis of the first dual-core microprocessors domestic " Elbrus-2GM " produced on 90 nm technology of "Mikron", the largest in Russia and CIS manufacturer and exporter of microelectronics within the industry holding RTI.

    Fee "Monokub-M" - in-house development JSC "MCST", based on commercially available motherboard "Monokub" . The board is made ​​in a small form factor mini-ITX and has a rich set of interfaces: PCI-Express 1.0, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2.0, VGA, DVI, SATA 2.0, IDE (CompactFlash), RS-232, GPIO. Microprocessor "Elbrus-2GM" is a key element of the board. On the basis of the board "Monokub-M" and the supplied operating system "Elbrus" can create a domestic compact computer, candy bar, mini-server or network storage, as well as a trusted system with a high level of protection against phishing attacks.

    This may sound like nothing amazing due to being old style technology, but what makes this big is that this is talk about outright full production in local zelenograd (who can make up to 65nm tech so far) and this is aimed at the domestic market for specific goods. Such as this:

    News partners: announced storage system with a processor Elbrus-2C +
    Joint development of storage systems announced two rossiykie companies: the developer of management software for storage and RAIDIX company Promobit with server platform BitBlaze. Development is carried out in partnership and with the support of JSC "MCST".
    Used Russian system platform based processor Elbrus 2C + . SAN supports up to 60 SATA hard drives with "hot-swappable" in a compact form factor (4U for 60 drives 3.5 ").

    This is very important. This company who specializes in making NAS' for cluster systems, will be offering NAS' that are powered with Elbrus 2GM (or 2c+) processors (2GM is 2C+ for domestic market as my understanding) and this will allow MCST to finally enter the domestic consumer market with their product. The MCST 2C+ is a good choice as most NAS' these days run a real slow and cheap motorolla MIPS processor and thus the Elbrus 2C+ will provide better performance that would be quite adiquate for NAS use (NAS' are not that intensive for a processor). If MCST can sign more contracts for this or Elbrus 4C for domestic server use (data servers, NAS', routers, etc) then the products not only will get cheaper overall in the long run, make Russia more self reliant, but also bring in lots of income for MCST to further their research and development.

    There was a recent test of the Elbrus 4C at 700mhz, on a single core, running Doom 3 BFG edition: http://mcst.ru/testirovanie-raboty-obnovlennoj-graficheskoj-podsistemy-i-apparatnogo-3d-uskoreniya-na-processore-elbrus4s

    Mind you, performance wasn't that good, but my understanding it is fairing quite well for a processor running at a very low frequency for a game that demands a semi-hefty processor even on minimum requirements. Which would mean that if the processors frequency was higher (around 1.5ghz), then the game would be running far better (significantly better). And this proves, that even though the game was not designed around the CPU (as all games on PC are designed around the CISC architecture as that is what is mostly to only used in games these days unless it is console), is capable of actually doing the job as well. It would be more interesting to see it run a game that is multithreaded though.

    Now MCST should push Elbrus 8C for domestic consumption and start working with game developers to develop the games around the processor, much like Nintendo using the PowerPC RISC processor.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:21 am

    Mini-ITX form factor is something you would use as a media system or storage manager or perhaps internet and/or print server rather than a standard first choice games machine.

    For those not familiar with form factors...



    With standard ATX being the normal desktop size...


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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:38 pm

    I noticed from this: http://mcst.ru/pozdravlenie-direktora-mcst-s-nastupayushhimi-prazdnikami

    That Elbrus 1C is mentioned, and 1C would be a single core processor. I am hoping that it will have a decent frequency of something similar to 1GHZ and I really hope they introduce this as a processor solderd to a pico board and sold as a competitor to Raspberry Pi! I would seriously purchase dozens if not more of them to build my own routers, small form factor NAS (similar to those dlink USB powered ones) and home theater setups. I seriously hope they do something like this, as this will create the domestic computer boom in Russia, as well as home built projects. Actually, such systems are also used in creating other products like automated CNC style machines (Smaller ones), 3D printers, etc.

    The Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C could be the products that will bring MCST into a new generation.

    I just hope they decide to eventually drop the SPARC line of processors. They are not needed anymore as VLIW processors are RISC processors much like SPARC's are. Would be redundant.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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