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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:33 am

    It is apples to oranges.

    It hasto compete against Itanium and the like. In its field, these processors are just different. RISC but with two instructions - x86 and some sort of proprietary security.

    Price? God knows. Probably a lot unless they mass produce them. It will be used for hpc and workstations for various enterprises and goverenment. Like how Synergy OS is being built by various Russian companies.

    Intel will still reign supreme on the common consumer market as these may not be available only to specifics. That is the drawback of mcst.

    I myself prefer AMD. If only they just decided to drop bulldozer... but in the end, my next workstation will probabaly be a sparc. I worked with them before and prefered them over amd/intel. Also, boo windows. No real alternative though.

    If MCST would aim at basic consumer market, then chances are they would have just developed a CISC processor or arm instead. Baikal will be basic consumer market and it will just be an arm like you mentioned.

    No real major innovation, which sucks imo.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:37 am

    sepheronx wrote:It is apples to oranges.

    It hasto compete against Itanium and the like. In its field, these processors are just different. RISC but with two instructions - x86 and some sort of proprietary security.

    Price? God knows. Probably a lot unless they mass produce them. It will be used for hpc and workstations for various enterprises and goverenment. Like how Synergy OS is being built by various Russian companies.

    Intel will still reign supreme on the common consumer market as these may not be available only to specifics. That is the drawback of mcst.

    I myself prefer AMD. If only they just decided to drop bulldozer... but in the end, my next workstation will probabaly be a sparc. I worked with them before and prefered them over amd/intel. Also, boo windows. No real alternative though.

    If MCST would aim at basic consumer market, then chances are they would have just developed a CISC processor or arm instead. Baikal will be basic consumer market and it will just be an arm like you mentioned.

    No real major innovation, which sucks imo.
    Yep....

    If it is really positioned up against Itanium, it should succed. - As mentioned before, Intel hasn't put much into Itanium for a couple years now. If they could just score a big deal with TSMC.... - Honestly, that would (AFAIK) be the only possible problem with the 8C program. TSMC has had trouble keeping up with the market place, thanks to GPU's and ARM etc. Thankfully, TSMC has been transitioning to smaller lithographing when it comes to demand, as ARM, AMD, and Apple begin moving onto 20 nm... - Let me add that this is an advantage of 28 nm, and that it still has the best power per dollar ratio of any lithography ever. TSMC will probably produce it for many more years to come, lowering the cost further. So far the production number has been low balled, but it depends on demand like anything else.

    Yeah, and one large reason why is marketing... Not kidding, when Joe Shmoe (here in the States) sees a computer powered by AMD, they scoff and head for the "Intel inside" stickers.

    Bulldozer was their biggest mistake yet, but they claim that they will dump it for a new K-based processor in the near future. The day that comes..... My rig has W7 and Ubuntu, which keeps me satisfied for sure!

    The "real" innovation will come in a decade or so. - Carbon, carbon, CARBON!!!
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:00 am

    I know Russian developers have been looking into carbon and well, alternatives to silicon. But it seems they are more interested in 3d designs. So things may be interesting in the future.

    What AMD has going for them is their APU. They played that very smart.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:17 am

    sepheronx wrote:I know Russian developers have been looking into carbon and well, alternatives to silicon. But it seems they are more interested in 3d designs. So things may be interesting in the future.

    What AMD has going for them is their APU. They played that very smart.
    Yep, will be exciting to see what they have in store! - 3D memory looks great too...

    They did compromise their high-end chip "lineup" badly though... They put all this energy and money, never-mind time, into a product that still hasn't done anything for them!
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:24 am

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I know Russian developers have been looking into carbon and well, alternatives to silicon. But it seems they are more interested in 3d designs. So things may be interesting in the future.

    What AMD has going for them is their APU. They played that very smart.
    Yep, will be exciting to see what they have in store! - 3D memory looks great too...

    They did compromise their high-end chip "lineup" badly though... They put all this energy and money, never-mind time, into a product that still hasn't done anything for them!

    Depends on which one. AMD I think pretty much gained the upper hand in the whole video game market (excluding Wii U which still uses powerpc). Both consoles use the Jaguar CPU and have to say, that in itself will give it the market boost for its processors.

    Yeah, the 3d circuitry is looking exciting. When I heard they are aiming for that, then I figured Russia made the right choice.

    BTW: http://marchmontnews.com/Finance-Business/Central-regions/20950-State-fund-seeks-develop-Russian-Apple.html

    I don't mind them trying, but what I hate is how they need to compare. Make their own "this or that" company alternative. Instead, they should just do it and aim at their own direction rather than eyeing the other. But it is good they are wanting to move that direction in industry.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:19 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:BTW, russia now has the abilitay (or at least soon) to build machinery that makes semiconductors with a topology of 10nm. So in other words, they could effectively build a FAB that can build these processors. It is of course a rusnano/dutch jv.

    What's your thoughts about the article I posted on the previous page?

    Your Article is very good.. is a logical step that Russia should have done decades ago.. not now. No
    But anyway better late than never.. Smile

    Said in other words..what i think the article is about Russia Space Technology ,their satellites specifically ,
    Russia is now saying that 100% of its electronics will not longer use American or any western electronics for
    security ,and because of Sanctions. Russia makes the space rockets 100% but their satellites have been mostly foreigners..some of its electronics..  Radiation resistant electronics will be very important for space traveling ,with
    Russia space program.. if they plan to go to the moon and mars ,they will need radiation resistant electronics 100%
    made in Russia..  Because the west no longer can be trusted as reliable suppliers of anything.. and i do not see Russia relations improving with the west.. will only get worse by the time.. Because Americans will continue supporting their criminal politicians , ie.. George Bush 9/11 False flag Brother ,and Hitlery Clinton are the big names now sounding for US next elections..  How can a society be so stupid and careless for their future and not have a revolution already to overthrow their 2 party dictatorship is beyond understanding.  No

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:56 pm

    This is very nice.. Very Happy
    A 1,000 Mhz Processor /Laptop by Moscow Center of SPARC Technologies offered
    for military and industrial use.

    It's specs:


    HT-R1000 - MCST Elbrus laptop

    CPU - R1000
    Clock - 760-1000 MHz
    RAM - 4 GB
    VideoRAM - 16 MB
    Display - 15",1024x768
    2,5" SSD SATA - 32 GB or better
    Military hardware group - 1.10 (GOST RV 20.39.304-98)
    Class 2 protection against unauthorized access to the information
    GLONASS receiver integrated
    Power - integrated battery 8.8Ah, 7,4 V
    Dimensions - 372x338x82
    Weight - 10 kg or less


    Thats pretty much all you need for Security in any company ,for payroll employees ,storing state secrets of any technology ,intelligence services ,control of satellites in space ,control a nuclear reactor or launch an ICBM.  Have their own operating system designed by Russia but probably based on a custom Russian version version of Linux that is closed.

    This is why i laugh at the US claims of China "Stealing their defense industry secrets".. that ridiculous impossible
    if they have any decent Computer Engineers in their nation.. which they have. or any decent Network specialist.
    Computers can be as safe as you want it..

    Of course is only for mathematical operations and communications and for storing data in the laptop..
    Not for gaming or graphics.. but still is amazing technology ,that will love to have one for Christmas for
    experimenting with it and programming software. .. thumbsup

    But this is a very niche market ,very few nations needs that level of security. Only Major Powers..

    take a look at this beauty..  Very Happy



    if Russia can make a computer for heavy 3d graphics ,Film ,visualization and gaming with its software ,
    i'll take one .  Smile

    im surprised That the Russian semiconductor industry is more advanced  than i thought. Shocked
    They already have working Personal Computers for Industry use albeit still is really nice.  Very Happy

    What the hell is Russia waiting to take their computer industry to a new level?
    With its software and hardware Industry ? Is not like they need to start from zero or learn how to make a computer ,they already have them and not just shitty crap but very decent ones.  Smile  
    Is only for Industrial use and security still is very nice.. If they push on the software side and advertise
    their products better it could get many sales in companies and server industry.  

    interesting video ...


    ELBRUS Russia processor website..
    http://www.mcst.ru

    translation to english.. not sure if works...

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.mcst.ru/&usg=ALkJrhiwNCT6PmAiO4WZPtcnGKfFHn50LQ

    There was a video on youtube of Elbrus processor running in emulation Windows 2,000.. was slow as hell..
    as any virtual emulation always does.. (it will be the same if an Intel processor try to emulate another graphic intensive operating system) but still is nice ,since could run windows software. Smile
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:19 pm

    Edit: oops, it is the R-1000, not the 2C+. I think they are stopping with the development of SPARC processors, unless they will in the future create another SPARC CPU (all based on v9) with far more power. But seems they are more interested in VLIW design rather than SPARC. SPARC is even worst at x86 emulation and quite outdated by other RISC designs.

    Information below about Elbrus 2C+:

    The processor itself is not bad, but it really is just a dual core Elbrus e2k processor at 500mhz with 4 Elvees DSP cores.  Purpose was to power multimedia based systems like Radar and information translation for the military.  That is the purpose of the DSP cores as they are significantly better than a standard processor at translating raw media data.

    The processor though is running off of older technology that makes it quite a bit behind the Elbrus 4C and soon 8C.  Also, its x86 instruction is very basic from what I heard thus it has major performance loss when it is emulating the x86 functions in Windows OS.  While Elbrus 4C has much less performance loss (something like 25% for Elbrus 4C compared to something like 40% to that of Elbrus 2C+).  These toughbooks were not meant to run Windows (the Monoblock and the All in One from Kraftway were tests more like it) and thus they run their own OS, which is a KNE OS called Elbrus OS: http://elbrus2k.wikidot.com/elbrus-operating-system

    Here is the OS that some major companies in Russia developing their own KNE os: http://marchmontnews.com/Technology-Innovation/Volga/20881-Russias-own-operating-system-expected-%E2%80%98oust-Windows.html

    Windows library takes advantage of instruction sets that are defined on CISC processors, hence they are what one would consider to be efficient for the OS compared to RISC processors that instructions are done on a software level, thus the OS needs to take advantage of the RISC processor for specific tasks (you can have out of order on a RISC that simulates similar to CISC processors), and that makes the translation between CPU and software much more efficient.  But, if it is not coded around it, as well it needs to be emulated, there is a major performance hit.  Hence Elbrus 2C+ in Windows (Khathi over at MP.net stated he saw it running a newer variant of Windows at a MAKS once and it was very speedy processor, capable of running windows very well).  But the thing is, whatever you will see these Elbrus processors running on, wont be on Windows.  It will either be its own KNE or BSD based OS.  There was this OS too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_OS which sounds promising and it is BSD based (like OSX and iOS is). but once again, it has to be developed around the processor/hardware in order to be efficient/take advantage of the architecture.

    Wherever you look, these specialized processors are running off of their own respective OS, in order to take advantage of the hardware.  For instance, Oracle has Solaris (also last known as SUN before it was bought out by Oracle) and it is a BSD based OS that takes advantage of its SPARC processors (Since Sun created the SPARC architecture).  IBM zOS/2, Fujitsu with its BS2000/OSD, Loongsong with its own Linux OS, etc.  This in turn allows a theoretically slower processor, seem to run faster than its counterpart, as the OS is specially designed around the architecture of the CPU/Hardware thus, making it very responsive to the instruction set available as well as the arch design.  Problem with this, it becomes less open, thus lack of third party development and huge consumption for.  Windows on the other hand uses specific instruction sets and library, which CISC processors these days (only two, Intel and AMD) take advantage of in their instruction sets, thus technically, Windows is a very open OS to build hardware around (well, open in that sense, I think you need to purchase licenses to develop for it on the hardware level as well).  But it isn't designed to a specific processor, and if one takes a look at Windows library management, it is piss poor (same with their update structure).  But nonetheless, Intel and AMD build their CPU around these specific instruction sets and come out with driver support or what not for these processors in Windows OS library so the OS can take advantage of the CPU's new instruction (if you notice, both Intel and AMD have all very similar instruction sets with some odd few here and there differences, that is due to copyright laws).  But if you look at AMD, Intel and Nvidia, especially in the graphical side of things, on Linux, they are piss poor.  Because that is lack of development on that sector for these processors/GPU's and lack of a proper library/driver support.

    If MCST wanted to make a processor to compete with Intel, much like Loongsong, Fujitsu, etc, they would have developed a CISC processor with similar instruction sets (or exact ones like SSE, which requires a license from Intel), then maybe they could.  But instead, they went the other route, which is cheaper and more effective for them - developing RISC based processors (or VLIW which is RISC, but a Very Long Instruction Word) and a specific OS to it.  Because these two groups meet specific needs.  Specialized field of processing for specialized development (things like HPC, Workstations that deal with advanced computational work like graphical design, Autocad, etc).  These type of fields are also good money makers.  But if MCST wants to get their processor out on the open civil market, they will have to find some company that is willing to develop an OS that is not only open, but also easy to program with, easy to function with and easy to set up, as well as also other software developers willing to make the software needed, in the same manner, that is in Windows.  The average person does not want to learn all the fandangled specials that may come with Elbrus CPU and its OS.  Instead, they want something easy to work with, and easy to obtain software for.  Microsoft also has the massive amounts of marketing as well as company support that gets their OS on the market, as well as their piss poor coded software to be used in almost every office (Microsoft Office, especially new ones, are total garbage and poorly coded.  But it is used in every major company.  Lotus Office and LibreOffice are both great pieces of open source office software that is barely used.  They are open source, meaning free as well (not having to pay $100 + for a office software) and other mail based software that acts like Outlook.  But in the end, these lack the marketing and many industries have already their mail servers and what not set up on something like MS exchange so changing it is pointless and costly for them.

    This is something I do not see happening unless MS bans Windows OS entirely in Russia.  Which to that effect would mean that people will just end up downloading it via torrent from other countries anyways.  As for obtaining the microprocessors like Intel and AMD, they would just end up purchasing from China through third party like private sales and what not.  That is how Iran and North Korea is still able to obtain Intel based processors for their computers/super computers, even though Iran develops their own SPARC processor as well.  Windows has just too much functionality (even if poorly designed and coded) and that takes advantage of the Intel and AMD CPU's.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:48 pm

    What I would like to see is some serious benchmarking of fluid dynamics code on the Elbrus. All of these gigaflop and SPECfp tests are rinky dink
    sideshow distractions. I could care less about the integer performance of a processor intended for science and engineering. I am more than
    sure it can compile my Fortran 90 code fast enough. A good Fortran 90, 95, 2003, etc. compiler from MCST for the Elbrus is vital for the
    adoption and utility of the Elbrus CPU brand.

    You can throw as many cores as you want at a problem, but if there is no way for binaries to be compiled which use the features of the processors
    then it is all one big time waste. The Itanium comes with its own special optimizing compiler. Without this compiler the Itanium is worthless.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:32 am

    It is some sort of Dynamic Binary translator. I too would like to see it.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:00 am

    sepheronx wrote:It is some sort of Dynamic Binary translator.  I too would like to see it.

    MCST makes a lot of its binary translator. I would like to see it benchmarked but this is not what is needed for HPC.
    MCST needs to put out native compilers as well. Intel bought out the Digital Equipment Corp.'s Fortran compiler
    back in the 1990s since DEC's compiler was perhaps the best out there. Making sure there is full support for your
    architecture is key to market success. AMD made sure that the Portland Group compilers had full support and this
    helped it penetrate into the HPC market.

    When I talk about Fortran compilers it is because they are the backbone of HPC development and squeeze hardware
    performance for all it is worth. Not C or C++ compilers. In the Linux realm you have the excellent GCC compiler,
    but gfortran just does not have the optimizing ability to deliver quick execution compared to PGI or Intel compilers.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:53 am

    All I am aware is that there is Fortron 90 compiler. But that is it for Elbrus. I don't know much else.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:04 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/53654/

    Russian telecom company T8 has developed technology to transmit signals at rate of 200 gigabit/second (two channel)
    over a distance of 500 km through a single standard optical fiber without repeaters. Previous efforts used non standard
    optical fibers or repeaters.

    Even using the best optical fiber on the market the attenuation of the signal is 80 dB (i.e. by a factor of 100 million)
    over a distance of 500 km.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:54 am

    hahaha, I just thought of something.

    Maybe Russia could use its mass amounts of networking as well as its power grids/server clusters to mine bitcoins or create their own cryptocurrency, like a digiruble, and use this to purchase goods from outside as well. Just a thought.

    indochina

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  indochina on Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:34 am

    according to what I know Russia have smartphones Yotaphone , famous Keybersky software, Yandex browser, processor Elbrus 8C, and Marussia supercar, civilian aircraft Superjet 100 and Vodka alcohol

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Asf on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:19 am

     famous Keybersky software,

    Kaspersky?


     and Vodka alcohol

    this, comrade! we even feed it to our domestic bears, but don't tell it to animal protectors
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:25 pm

    Asf wrote:
     famous Keybersky software,

    Kaspersky?
    I'm sure that is what he meant...

    Russia has a much larger industry than that... Just to let you know, Marussia went bankrupt last year (maybe a little before then).
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:42 pm

    Good. The company is prime example how shoving money at something and trying to make it look 'advanced' (as some people here say) will not work. While cheap vehicle makers like Avtovaz is actually becoming successful.

    That said, Marussias automotive manufacturer was in Finland....

    Russian tech industry is huge but still young/untapped at full potential.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:09 pm

    Russia has the Elbrus CPU. The only functional VLIW design on the planet. Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about. It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:12 pm

    No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:05 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires. Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:16 am

    kvs wrote:Russia has the Elbrus CPU.  The only functional VLIW design on the planet.   Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.  

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about.  It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.
    It thought that the i860 had a VLIW design... Didn't it? Obviously it is barely used today, but still....

    The consumer market is great to get into, but then again, so are the server, professional, and defense markets... I think that Russian companies should go for the latter(s) more than the ridiculous inconsistent consumer market. Companies like AMD are also getting out of it, wonder why? - Intel, and because the server market which they are aiming for will be more consistent $ wise. Plus, the consumer market is morphing into the mobile market, and is very tense thanks to competition of ARM, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and even VIA etc...
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:40 am

    Mike E wrote:
    kvs wrote:Russia has the Elbrus CPU.  The only functional VLIW design on the planet.   Now it is in the process of improving its fabrication capacity to be
    able to produce them without outsourcing to China or Taiwan.  

    That Russia does not have a big name in consumer junk is nothing to get excited about.  It has a big name in military hardware and that is
    what counts.
    It thought that the i860 had a VLIW design... Didn't it? Obviously it is barely used today, but still....

    The consumer market is great to get into, but then again, so are the server, professional, and defense markets... I think that Russian companies should go for the latter(s) more than the ridiculous inconsistent consumer market. Companies like AMD are also getting out of it, wonder why? - Intel, and because the server market which they are aiming for will be more consistent $ wise. Plus, the consumer market is morphing into the mobile market, and is very tense thanks to competition of ARM, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, and even VIA etc...

    And its VLIW was not successful.  Back then, they couldn't get the power out of it like MCST has with Elbrus.  If Intel decided that they wanted to concentrate on it, they could, but the CISC is what is making them the money, so why fix what isn't broken?  It would be pointless for Intel just like it would be pointless for MCST to go the CISC route.  They are more familiar with RISC (Thanks to SPARC of course) type processors with x86 emulation.  It is like Loongsong that decided to go the MIPS route instead as well.  So three companies (MCST, Intel, Loongsong) are making processors for a specific market.  While Intel will dominate the day to day use and many HPC systems thanks to its ownership of Fortran and the fact that many still use Windows (and windows server), where its architecture of the CISC design is taken advantage of, MCST and Loongsong rely on KNE/BSD in order to take advantage of their processors.  I guess the 1 up of this is the fact that most Linux and Unix (excluding OSX) distro's are free and open, thus development can be much cheaper.  Downside is that development for it has to be relied upon by companies willing to work with it, and individuals.  While Microsoft has significant amounts of money pouring into the market, where they can pretty much take control.  Hence why 90% of the world uses Microsoft and thus, have to use either Intel or AMD because both are CISC, both are the only chips that works under a Microsoft environment, well, besides Windows PE which ARM can work under...but that is a lousy OS (we use them at work for various gadgets.  Blah!).  Only way VLIW or MIPS or any other type, requires x86 emulation, and well, there is a major drop in performance in regards to this.  For Elbrus, I read it is somewhere around 60 - 80% of performance loss simply for emulation, Loongsongs latest processor has around 70%.  That is quite the massive drop and will effect its performance under Windows environment.

    The whole purpose for MCST move to Elbrus 8 was specifically for server grade and workstation processors, not your commonly used day to day desktop variants (although, it could.  As you can run pretty much any Distro in Linux with it).  Ministry of Industry and Trade has put forward the money for its investment for a specific reason.  Rostec and T-Platforms(dunno why them) have decided to go the ARM route due to being cheaper to produce (even if they themselves become a fabless design facility), and doing so to capitalize on the Russian consumer market demand for everything mobile gadgetry.  Or maybe T-Platforms is looking into ARM cluster systems like AMD is.  Who knows at the moment.

    I think AMD is going the smart route. They are still going with the consumer market, but in the lower profile and cheaper to run style (their APU's were aimed at the laptop market mostly, and I think are quite successful). While they are also keeping in line with their Opteron series processors to still have their nitch in the server sectors, while doing some interesting R&D like ARM based Opteron (much looking forward to this. Only problem with ARM is that they are not superscalar in hardware only software at the moment). MCST is a FABless plant like AMD, but MCST is going based upon government demand, not really consumer, but created the E2K architecture specifically for multitude of rolls and making it cheaper/easier to producer later on. For instance, Elbrus 2C+, is the Elbrus E2K core, but is a dual core, with 4 DSP cores. It was (rumored) to be the processor for the AESA radar for PAK FA, and possibly other systems. Elbrus 4C was designe, by demands of the Industry and Trade ministry, for a processor to be used in industrial equipment and environments. So for instance, automation, CNC systems, etc (heck, that is total overpowered, since we use $1M German printers at work, that still use Win 95 and Intel Pentium III processors). Elbrus 8 is being pushed by Ministry of Industry and Trade for workstations and Servers. Since MCST is government owned and their work is tied specifically to the governments demands, we may not see MCST move to the consumer market like many wish for. They may be hard to get and only used for specific groups like defense agencies, intelligence agencies, government employees, etc. T-Platforms and its subsidiary, Baikal, is a private enterprise. Add in Rusnano and Rostec, two Not for Profit agencies run by the government, have invested in Baikal processors, which are just their own iteration of ARM (with possible some differences). So for the general market, it is really up to T-Platforms of Russia. There is Multiclet, Elvees, Module and Mikran. But the problem with these are: Multiclet is a non Vonnewman processor, working under the concept of cell processing and only to be used in specific applications (already being used), Elvees and Module, and Mikran concentrates mostly on SIMD development. There is of course other ones, but they are university development.

    This breakdown is pretty hard. Cant believe I remember this stuff. But anyway, it is due to the lack of private enterprises really pushing for the development, that is why we may not see them in day to day use. The development really is coming out mostly from just government agencies or groups who are making specialized chips like Elvees, Mikran and Module. Only one is T-Platforms, since they are private, that will jump to the regular consumer use. They made it clear that there are about 700,000 devices (consumer grade) sold per year to the government alone (not to mention rest of the country) and T-Platforms is hoping to capitalize on that with the ARM development. So they may aim at the low profile market (small computers) and mobile devices.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:26 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires.   Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?


    Soft power is the only way to create your own civilization. Create your own civilization is your only way to remain sovereign and not been absorbed by others.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:58 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:No it is not. Soft power you gain by the consumer market.

    Maybe Russia has no intention of emulating certain wannabe empires.   Who is Russia going to exert this soft power over?


    Soft power is the only way to create your own civilization. Create your own civilization is your only way to remain sovereign and not been absorbed by others.

    We have a different interpretation of what soft power is. Here in Canada all the consumer goods are made in China, Korea or Japan.
    Soft power to me implies control of the media message and economic dependence. Clearly Canada is not a vassal of China.

    Russia's economy is too diversified and advanced to be considered some banana republic variant dependent on a single commodity
    for export and easily manipulated by foreign powers. The west had its chance during the 1990s, but that ship has sailed.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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