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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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    Neutrality

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:08 pm

    kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

    The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
    The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

    I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
    operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
    urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
    flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

    It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
    conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
    to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

    Baby steps. Also, consider for a moment the patents that Intel holds. AMD lincenses its x86 CPU architecture from Intel and Intel licenses the 64bit architecture from AMD.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:57 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

    The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
    The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

    I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
    operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
    urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
    flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

    It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
    conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
    to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

    Baby steps. Also, consider for a moment the patents that Intel holds. AMD lincenses its x86 CPU architecture from Intel and Intel licenses the 64bit architecture from AMD.

    You got that bavkwards, but essentially you are right. Reason why the Baikal MIPS processor gets SIMD64 simply because of licensing. MCST has to do workarounds atm. But clearly from what is being said, this processor proves the high efficiency of the ElbrusE2K architecture. Hopefully in future, next architecture will have many more features like KVS says.

    Not to mention Elbrus 16C is next.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:36 am

    In the Moscow region completed the construction of a plant of printed circuit boards
    Construction company PSJ from the Czech Republic completed the construction in the suburban town of Dubna. Now there would be a new plant CJSC Svyaz engineering" for the production of computer circuit boards. The official launch of the plant will take place in the near future. In the implementation of the project was invested 46,21 million euros. The construction of this industrial facility has become the largest export order for a turnkey company. Directly in addition to the construction company was engaged in the installation of production lines and equipment of the entire complex. wrote:
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    Neutrality

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:52 pm

    Excellent article about "Baikal Electronics": http://top.rbc.ru/technology_and_media/08/07/2015/559a74c69a79471609b5a688 (How "Baikal Eletronics" plans to compete with Intel)

    Here are some highlights:

    -2 billion roubles pumped into R&D of the first domestic chip (Baikal-T1). That money was also used for other purposes for the establishment of the company
    -25% is owned by T-Nano and 75% is owned by T-Platforms.
    -In May 2015 the company signed a contract for the delivery of supercomputers to the German Forschingszentrum Julich compute centre.
    -Article mentions other foreign customers like the State University of New York at Stony Brook, Riga Technical University, Finnish CSC-IT Center for Science (supercomputer cluster).
    -1,5 billion roubles in revenue of which 71 million roubles are pure profit.
    -The entire intellectual research and know-how is done in Russia and the chip is produced at TSMC (TSMC owns 45% of the global market).
    -The first Baikal CPU (Baikal-T1) is used in home appliance products (think washing machines, refrigerators and other important household products), modern CNC machines, routers and other various products.
    -Right now the company has almost 1,000 engineering smaples which will be sent to potential buyers for further testing at the end of this month (July 2015)
    -The company plans to release their next chip, the Baikal-M, before the end of 2016 for use in personal computers
    -Article mentions that right now Russian companies almost completely purchase their CPUs from both Intel and AMD. 79% of the orders go to Intel. The Russian CPU market is worth 3,89 billion dollars.
    -Plans to release the Baikal-MS, their upcoming CPU for mini servers, before the end of 2017.
    -"Baikal Electronics" is in talks with "Yota Devices", Russian smartphone producer. If the companies reach an agreement, "Baikal Eletronics" will start a line of smartphone CPUs.
    -The company couldn't comment on the price of the current chip. However, assured it would be according to "market prices". "Rikor" (a Russian server company) estimates the prices will start at approx. 50 dollars.
    -Plans to deliver up to 100,000 CPUs in 2016. Which equals to 5 million dollars.
    -In 3-5 years the company plans to have several percent of the global market.
    -Chips will be sold to Germany, Israel, China, Brazil, Argentina and the UAE.
    -According to an American research company, IC Insights, the semi-conductor market will be worth 87 billion dollars in 2018. "Baikal Electronics" is able to get at least 1 billion dollars of that market.
    -The most important selling point of their MIPS chips is the very high computational power, while using minimal energy, according to the company.
    -Interest and demand in their chip is higher than they anticipated. Approximately 100 Russian and foreign companies have shown interest.

    Hopefully I have the most important pieces covered. I'm very excited about this company cheers
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:29 am

    Why not aim to have these chips sold to more than listed countries? I bet they would be beneficial in countries like Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, etc.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:49 pm

    The Elbrus processors for the mass market
    As is known, the Russian company MCST, part of the United Instrument Corporation (OPK), announced for 2016 serial production of the latest domestic OCTA-core processor Elbrus-8C technology 28 nm.
    According to the statement of the General Director of OPK Alexander Yakunin: now Elbrus 8C is tested and at the end of the year should go to the state tests.
    And here in July, Vladimir Putin expressed confidence that the domestic use of microprocessors Elbrus will not remain the lot of only the military, and soon spread to many civil industry.
    Mentioned presidential statement was made at the it forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma" during the meeting of Putin with young scientists. Here's what was said, almost verbatim:
    Y. Ivanik: Good afternoon, Mr Putin. My name is Yuri Ivanik. I came from Krasnodar, of Academy IMSIT, student.
    I have a question. Asked a question about import substitution. I know that MCST, if I'm not mistaken, has developed a processor architecture Elbrus-M, but at the moment it is only available to certain institutions and, in my opinion, some military. Such question: whether it is available to civil or it will remain as defense part?
    Vladimir Putin: You know, any discoveries, achievements, and developments in the military for the needs of defense and security sooner or later be consigned civil industries and civic life. The Internet, as of this began. Intelligence was developed 30 years ago, and then began to introduce. First, for correspondence in the States, and then wider and wider.
    Into space how people flew? What did you work on? Over the means of delivery of a nuclear warhead — that worked for. And Queens has worked on it, among other things, first and foremost, and then all civil program. We have.
    We are still our partners and competitors "will rejoice" our latest developments in the field of defence and security. But what we will show, we won't keep forever secret, one way or another will be used in civil industries. And this [development Elbrus] too, of course.
    Elbrus were supported by the state?
    In a press-service of the defence industry, which includes the company MCST, in an interview with CNews.ru stated that it was not initiated such a question to Putin, and the Corporation and the company MCST did not participate in the forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma".
    However, the process looks like and the last statement of the President suggests that in our electronics really began tectonic shifts.
    Try to understand yourself, what is actually happening and how MP Elbrus is planned to be used and applied in various spheres of Russian electronics and related areas. To do this, let's just look at a plan of import substitution in the electronic industry of Russia and look for the word Elbrus.
    In addition, the plan provides for the creation on the basis of domestic processor, the following components for the mass market:
    • Tablet for the mass market and the hardware platform of the Russian production to create a line of tablets
    • Tablet for organizations and institutions (with high requirements for data protection) on the basis of domestic hardware platform, including protected
    • Personal supercomputer is a high — performance workstation and equipment for a range of finished devices
    • Home-based routers local network
    • Telecommunication equipment
    • Medical equipment
    • Microwave electronics
    • Led technology
    • and much more
    Well, as they say, draw your own conclusions ...
    Sources:
    http://minpromtorg.gov.ru...upload/files/docs/662.PDF
    http://www.cnews.ru/top/2...danskoe_primenenie_597538
    http://mcst.ru/vosmiyader...or-s-arkhitekturoj-elbrus
    http://mcst.ru/arm-elbrus401
    http://mcst.ru/server_elbrus-4.4
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 pm

    First deliveries debug complexes with Multiclet R1

    Looks like Microclet will start to get customers.

    victor1985

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  victor1985 on Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:54 am

    Anyone has a book or something about computer chips? Something with details about how they are work and how are they builded?
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:15 am

    victor1985 wrote:Anyone has a book or something about computer chips? Something with details about how they are work and how are they builded?

    Do a search on bookzz.org. It is a great resource for books although somewhat shady.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:38 pm

    Omsk company "Promobit" presented Russia's Elbrus 4416 2U server
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/68089/

    Very neet. If prices can be lower, then it could be very ideal system for Russian enterprises. Once Ebrlus 8C shows up, that would be ideal for desktop market. Well, it will end up competing against Baikal processors, and judging so far, more are showing interest in Baikal (Lenovo as example).
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:44 am

    sepheronx wrote:Omsk company "Promobit" presented Russia's Elbrus 4416 2U server
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/68089/

    Very neet. If prices can be lower, then it could be very ideal system for Russian enterprises. Once Ebrlus 8C shows up, that would be ideal for desktop market.  Well, it will end up competing against Baikal processors, and judging so far, more are showing interest in Baikal (Lenovo as example).

    The nice thing is that it uses a Russian made motherboard. This is exactly the sort of high tech capacity that Russia needs.
    It is a quad socket board so it will support 32 cores with the Elbrus 8C. The Elbrus 8C and higher will be eventually manufactured
    in Russia as well instead of being outsourced to Taiwan.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:35 am

    Right now they are lobbying for a plant to produce 28nm and lower. There are various companies in Russia who produce PCB's, especially motherboards (kraftway is one of them).

    Exciting news. I await in anticipation for this tech to reach consumer market.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:50 am

    Who uses these machines in the end , They dont seem to be available on Commercial Shelf to compete with IBM., HP or Dell.

    How much of this is commerically viable or is it just restricted to Government use ?
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:29 pm

    Austin wrote:Who uses these machines in the end , They dont seem to be available on Commercial Shelf to compete with IBM., HP or Dell.

    How much of this is commerically viable or is it just restricted to Government use ?

    Previous products are commercial, so this one more likely as well. The most likely candidates for such servers are more likely nuclear plants, mic, and government agencies. Once it actually takes off (which Kraftway is pushing for developing Russian workstations), the prices will eventually drop. Push from ministry of industry and trade has big plans for this. Just curious why they went with both Elbrus cpu and Baikal, since both will eventually be competing.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:57 pm

    Micron entered the SEZ projects 65-45-28 nm chip production and its own territory

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/68130/

    Very important read. So Micron got rights to be part of a special economic zone thus they save millions in vat taxes and what not. As well, it talks about their plan for 28nm production and how industry and trade is looking at 28nm and lower production in Russia between 2017 and 2020.

    So far, Micron is pushing to get this and stated cost will be $1.5B to produce 10M chips a month. Not a very high cost for Russia.
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:54 am

    Rostech is ready to provide Russian Army/state agencies with new series of  - Zarya Operating Systems.


    http://opkrt.ru/index.php/news/321-opk-gotova-nachat-serijnye-postavki-zashchishchennoj-ot-shpionov-os-zarya-dlya-silovikov




    Zarya (Dawn) was developed in some variants by this institute (Central R&D institute for  Economics, Computer Science and Control Engineering Smile )  -some variations of Zarya and I presume distributed db management system

    [url=http://www.cniieisu.ru/index.php/produsti-i-uslugi/17-produkciya/bazovye-informatsionnye-tekhnologii]http://www.cniieisu.ru/index.php/produsti-i-uslugi/17-produkciya/bazovye-informatsionnye-tekhnologii[/url]
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:58 am

    MoD: Putin may participate in a meeting on radio-electronics

    KAZAN, September 24 — RIA Novosti. The meeting on the development of domestic electronics will be held on September 29 in Zelenograd, it is possible that it will be attended by top leaders of the country, said Thursday the Deputy Russian defense Minister Yuri Borisov.


    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150924/1279316563.html


    sepheronx wrote:Micron entered the SEZ projects 65-45-28 nm chip production and its own territory

    So far, Micron is pushing to get this and stated cost will be $1.5B to produce 10M chips a month. Not a very high cost for Russia.

    Tell it it Anton and Elvira and you´ll hear that this is a catastrophe if you do nto use this money buying US T-bonds Surprised)

    BTW T-Platforms remark about need for preparation to 8nm chips fab is very true. Once 28nm is in Russia up and running West iwll be on level of 8 or so. But without govt legal regulations forcing domestic producers using Russian electronic base nothing happens. Export´ support by govt is also welcome.
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    Omsk company "Promobit" presented Russia's Elbrus 4416 2U server

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:40 am

    sepheronx wrote:Just curious why they went with both Elbrus cpu and Baikal, since both will eventually be competing.

    Maybe that is the plan. The alternatives are accepting that foreign producers are an option or that one domestic producer achieves a monopoly.
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    Militarov

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    Russia's military microelectronics

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:34 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Russia's AESA development seems to be going quite well, but the whole setup in terms of media information and open information is so clouded that I have absolutely no idea what is what and who makes what.  I am aware Istok makes some.  Then I am aware that there is another company making them.  Then we get tidbit information of radar systems to be used on ships that are using Russian made GaN modules of roughly 30W each, but we get little no details afterwards.  Apparently there is evidence that the T/R modules for the N036 are roughly 10 - 15W each, but there is some conflicting info if the Zhuk-A uses 5W or 10W modules.  There was apparent issues with cooling the modules which caused issues in terms of performance, but I don't know if they fixed it or not, cause I have only heard rumors that the intended tests for N036 works, so that would mean that they operated in their intended purposes.  Two different companies, so possibly two different solutions to the same problem.

    Now development on making GaAS/GaN modules much cheaper currently in works and using Photons rather than electrons for the semiconductors for future (by 2020).  So I have no real idea.  Not a lot of people do.  That guy Jo over at keypub obtains a ridiculous amounts of info on such things and I know Berkut also made mention as well.  So he is another good one that would possibly know more.

    Yeah i was reading keyp abit on that matter however i see some "holes" in stories and data there, some stuff simply do not..go along. When its about cooling Russians should try working on two-phase cooling with liquid thats what they are doing on West now since they are also having increased issues with cooling and atm existing liquid cooling very soon wont be able to match heat generated by more powerful electronics especially radars and jammers.

    When its about modules producers i belive second one you are mentioning should be Micran.

    Their brochure: http://www.micran.com/sites/micran_eng/tmpl/default/p/files/Micran%20Company.pdf
    Site: http://www.micran.com[/quote]
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:54 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    Russia's AESA development seems to be going quite well, but the whole setup in terms of media information and open information is so clouded that I have absolutely no idea what is what and who makes what.  I am aware Istok makes some.  Then I am aware that there is another company making them.  Then we get tidbit information of radar systems to be used on ships that are using Russian made GaN modules of roughly 30W each, but we get little no details afterwards.  Apparently there is evidence that the T/R modules for the N036 are roughly 10 - 15W each, but there is some conflicting info if the Zhuk-A uses 5W or 10W modules.  There was apparent issues with cooling the modules which caused issues in terms of performance, but I don't know if they fixed it or not, cause I have only heard rumors that the intended tests for N036 works, so that would mean that they operated in their intended purposes.  Two different companies, so possibly two different solutions to the same problem.

    Now development on making GaAS/GaN modules much cheaper currently in works and using Photons rather than electrons for the semiconductors for future (by 2020).  So I have no real idea.  Not a lot of people do.  That guy Jo over at keypub obtains a ridiculous amounts of info on such things and I know Berkut also made mention as well.  So he is another good one that would possibly know more.

    Yeah i was reading keyp abit on that matter however i see some "holes" in stories and data there, some stuff simply do not..go along. When its about cooling Russians should try working on two-phase cooling with liquid thats what they are doing on West now since they are also having increased issues with cooling and atm existing liquid cooling very soon wont be able to match heat generated by more powerful electronics especially radars and jammers.

    When its about modules producers i belive second one you are mentioning should be Micran.

    Their brochure: http://www.micran.com/sites/micran_eng/tmpl/default/p/files/Micran%20Company.pdf
    Site: http://www.micran.com

    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:13 pm

    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:29 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with. Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf. Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:35 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

    Well i assume, indirectly tho, this two stage liquid cooling uses vaporisation as cooling mechanism too, somewhat like our fridges do i guess. Oh, ty, glad to be of help.
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    sepheronx

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    Micran semiconductor company

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

    Well i assume, indirectly tho, this two stage liquid cooling uses vaporisation as cooling mechanism too, somewhat like our fridges do i guess. Oh, ty, glad to be of help.

    That is a possibility as I have gone over with the local engineer and refrigeration mechanic at my office of the different types. My father explained in the past it was simply gas cooling they used when setting up the radar systems for air defense up in northern Canada.

    According to this:
    http://www.micran.com/news/326346/

    Talks about Micran's GaN modules. But the website is not listing it. I can only assume it is because they are keeping it really...secretive of the development of GaN modules as it is still under development stage.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:36 pm

    "Steepness" CMO will help create miniature systems for space and aviation

    Development allows 3-4 times to reduce the size and weight of devices



    The combined instrument-making company has developed multi-chip assembly technology VLSI based on 3D-integration techniques, enabling 3-4 times to reduce the weight and size of the devices. On the basis of its already established an experimental model of a miniature on-board unit for the spacecraft and aircraft.

    Development of technologies, code-named "steepness" engaged Concern "Constellation", the Research Institute of Electronic Technology in cooperation with NGOs Automatics. Academician NA Semikhatova.

    A new technology based on 3D-integration techniques allows to increase the functionality of devices per unit area and volume, improve their performance, lower power consumption products. With it has made on-board processing unit, storage, and exchange of information with external devices that are used, for example, microminiature control systems of spacecraft.

    Weight-board module based on the old planar technology of hybrid microcircuits of 38 grams, the new module - 10 grams, which is almost 4 times less. Dimensions reduced by 3 times - from 150 to 48 mm. In this functional characteristics remain unchanged.

    "This technology can be called basic and advanced. Today, it can be used in parallel planar, but is intended to replace it in the future - said the chief designer of developmental work "steepness" Andrei Stoyanov. - The stock performance of the module created by this technology, many times the overall performance of its constituent elements. This makes it possible to apply the technology in the future with the most modern and productive elements of electronic components - ultrafast signal processing microprocessors, microcontrollers, memory circuits and other large volume. ".

    Now on the basis of the concern "Constellation" is a further elaboration of technology to create a wide range of high-speed miniaturized multichip modules computing and control devices in the fields of space and aviation.

    http://rostec.ru/news/4517313

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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