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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 30, 2015 3:36 am

    Defense industry shall switch to open source.

    long overdue but good to hear.
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150529/1067179999.html


    Rostec and China's Huawei will jointly develop it security technologies
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2004608




    sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point really. If they produce mips now, they can accomplish what arm does with mips. Would also save them money.

    not all egs into one basket?

    kvs
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sat May 30, 2015 5:26 am

    sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point really. If they produce mips now, they can accomplish what arm does with mips. Would also save them money.

    It may be a code base issue. There is a lot of software written for ARM. Even though MIPS dates back to the 1990s, it never had the sort of
    large scale adoption. If all one cares about is compiling programs from source code then any decent CPU is enough. But as I am sure you know,
    that is not how this industry works.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 5:38 am

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point really. If they produce mips now, they can accomplish what arm does with mips. Would also save them money.

    It may be a code base issue.   There is a lot of software written for ARM.   Even though MIPS dates back to the 1990s, it never had the sort of
    large scale adoption.   If all one cares about is compiling programs from source code then any decent CPU is enough.   But as I am sure you know,
    that is not how this industry works.

    Of course not. But it has to start somewhere to be honest. In what I am getting at is that clearly the MIPS works great. Software coding base is another and Russia has been turning away from the western software, not just hardware. And that would mean great opportunities for various programmers not only from Russia but India and China as well (Since China has also moved to the MIPS field with their Loongsong processor). I understand the purpose, but I don't think it is worth it really.

    mutantsushi
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  mutantsushi on Sat May 30, 2015 7:06 am

    Well if you want to make CPUs to go in commercial products like smartphones that are supposed to use
    generally available Android apps from Google Play App Store, yes it's important.
    Sure, China also has MIPS projects, but also pursues commercial ARM projects.
    (Android in fact HAS a MIPS branch maintained by Google, and it may become commercially relevant. Not yet though)
    There is really no difference in software jobs in general, since the issue is recompilation,
    a "hassle factor" to promote local ISA infrastructure is just not going to accomplish much.

    Remember, America's "Silicion Valley" is all about commercial synergies after all.
    Ultimately, swapping MIPS execution units for ARM designs does not impede Russia's larger Semi design/fab projects,
    and if an ARM licence produces profitable commerical product, that helps things in the larger picture.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 7:13 am

    mutantsushi wrote:Well if you want to make CPUs to go in commercial products like smartphones that are supposed to use
    generally available Android apps from Google Play App Store, yes it's important.
    Sure, China also has MIPS projects, but also pursues commercial ARM projects.
    (Android in fact HAS a MIPS branch maintained by Google, and it may become commercially relevant.  Not yet though)
    There is really no difference in software jobs in general, since the issue is recompilation,
    a "hassle factor" to promote local ISA infrastructure is just not going to accomplish much.

    Remember, America's "Silicion Valley" is all about commercial synergies after all.
    Ultimately, swapping MIPS execution units for ARM designs does not impede Russia's larger Semi design/fab projects,
    and if an ARM licence produces profitable commerical product, that helps things in the larger picture.

    There are general costs and resources used when maintaining two different lines of architectures. Intel found that out the hard way. Seems MCST has not (since they keep the SPARC line and the VLIW line going). MIPS have been used for various commercial purposes from game consoles to even mobile devices plenty in recent past. If what you say is that google already has a MIPS sector for commercial purposes, then at that point, switching to ARM becomes even less relevant.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  mutantsushi on Sat May 30, 2015 7:45 am

    I'm saying it exists but you can't trivially download majority of Android apps, thus not commercially relevant at present moment.
    (for consumer-focused software platform markets, as opposed to niches which don't involve consumer software market)
    I actually think MIPS has interesting potential (aside from current niche), considering Android potential as well as other OS,
    but that is obviously not the same as short term commercial viability...
    I would say comparison to multiple competing Intel proprietary ISAs is not relevant, because this is not about pushing new ISA but about
    cashing in on existing ARM market with instantly viable commercial product, which MIPS apparently is not at current moment (outside existing niche).
    The fact they are choosing to go ahead with it while already having MIPS projects (and knowing all costs involved) suggests there is a good reason to do so.

    The new non-von-Neumann MultiClet project that basically obsoletes OOO Branch Predictors seems really interesting and potential long-term...
    Unclear exactly what niches it will ultimately be applicable to, but even starting small it can eventually expand if enabled by newer tech re: interconnects.


    Last edited by mutantsushi on Sat May 30, 2015 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 7:48 am

    mutantsushi wrote:I'm saying it exists but you can't trivially download majority of Android apps, thus not commercially relevant at present moment.
    (for consumer-focused software platform markets, as opposed to niches which don't involve consumer software market)
    I actually think MIPS has interesting potential (aside from current niche), considering Android potential as well as other OS,
    but that is obviously not the same as short term commercial viability...
    I would say comparison to multiple competing Intel proprietary ISAs is not relevant, because this is not about pushing new ISA but about
    cashing in on existing ARM market with instantly viable commercial product, which MIPS apparently is not at current moment (outside existing niche).
    The fact they are choosing to go ahead with it while already having MIPS projects (and knowing all costs involved) suggests there is a good reason to do so.

    The new non-Neumann ISA that basically obsoletes OOO Branch Predictors seems really interesting and potential long-term...

    Ah, you talking of Multiclet processor? Cause that non-Neumann processor is very interesting.

    Yes, I guess Baikal could cash in on the whole mobile phone and tablet market without huge investments. They will probably do basic development in it to cash in and invest further in their other processor products. Possibly.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:59 am

    Russian supercomputer based on 256 processors Elbrus
    According to the website of the Russian developer of processors and microelectronics MCST, submitted in the spring of 2015 first Soviet mass-production rack server based on a 4-core Elbrus-4C is an integral part of the new computing building Supercomputers with performance of 13.8 teraflops! New Russian computer system is a rack-mounted cluster based on domestic servers, in which a total combined 64 module 4 processors each. All 256 processors 4-core Elbrus-4C (800 MHz per core) on domestic motherboards, where the slots of RAM installed dies a total volume of 6 TB, and the total amount of disk space of the entire complex is 32 TB. The performance of such computing systems Supercomputers equal to 13.8 teraflops. At the end of 2015 is expected to create the next generation of Russian computing systems based on 8-core processor Elbrus-8C (1.3 GHz per core). The developers also acknowledge the ongoing processor Elbrus-16C and a series of decisions based on it.

    kvs
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:29 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

    The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling. It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
    The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

    I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
    operations. The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math. This should be
    urgently addressed. Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
    flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

    It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point. I think they were too
    conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden. The need
    to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

    Neutrality
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:08 am

    kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

    The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
    The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

    I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
    operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
    urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
    flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

    It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
    conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
    to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

    Baby steps. Also, consider for a moment the patents that Intel holds. AMD lincenses its x86 CPU architecture from Intel and Intel licenses the 64bit architecture from AMD.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:57 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

    The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
    The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

    I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
    operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
    urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
    flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

    It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
    conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
    to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

    Baby steps. Also, consider for a moment the patents that Intel holds. AMD lincenses its x86 CPU architecture from Intel and Intel licenses the 64bit architecture from AMD.

    You got that bavkwards, but essentially you are right. Reason why the Baikal MIPS processor gets SIMD64 simply because of licensing. MCST has to do workarounds atm. But clearly from what is being said, this processor proves the high efficiency of the ElbrusE2K architecture. Hopefully in future, next architecture will have many more features like KVS says.

    Not to mention Elbrus 16C is next.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:36 am

    In the Moscow region completed the construction of a plant of printed circuit boards
    Construction company PSJ from the Czech Republic completed the construction in the suburban town of Dubna. Now there would be a new plant CJSC Svyaz engineering" for the production of computer circuit boards. The official launch of the plant will take place in the near future. In the implementation of the project was invested 46,21 million euros. The construction of this industrial facility has become the largest export order for a turnkey company. Directly in addition to the construction company was engaged in the installation of production lines and equipment of the entire complex. wrote:

    Neutrality
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:52 am

    Excellent article about "Baikal Electronics": http://top.rbc.ru/technology_and_media/08/07/2015/559a74c69a79471609b5a688 (How "Baikal Eletronics" plans to compete with Intel)

    Here are some highlights:

    -2 billion roubles pumped into R&D of the first domestic chip (Baikal-T1). That money was also used for other purposes for the establishment of the company
    -25% is owned by T-Nano and 75% is owned by T-Platforms.
    -In May 2015 the company signed a contract for the delivery of supercomputers to the German Forschingszentrum Julich compute centre.
    -Article mentions other foreign customers like the State University of New York at Stony Brook, Riga Technical University, Finnish CSC-IT Center for Science (supercomputer cluster).
    -1,5 billion roubles in revenue of which 71 million roubles are pure profit.
    -The entire intellectual research and know-how is done in Russia and the chip is produced at TSMC (TSMC owns 45% of the global market).
    -The first Baikal CPU (Baikal-T1) is used in home appliance products (think washing machines, refrigerators and other important household products), modern CNC machines, routers and other various products.
    -Right now the company has almost 1,000 engineering smaples which will be sent to potential buyers for further testing at the end of this month (July 2015)
    -The company plans to release their next chip, the Baikal-M, before the end of 2016 for use in personal computers
    -Article mentions that right now Russian companies almost completely purchase their CPUs from both Intel and AMD. 79% of the orders go to Intel. The Russian CPU market is worth 3,89 billion dollars.
    -Plans to release the Baikal-MS, their upcoming CPU for mini servers, before the end of 2017.
    -"Baikal Electronics" is in talks with "Yota Devices", Russian smartphone producer. If the companies reach an agreement, "Baikal Eletronics" will start a line of smartphone CPUs.
    -The company couldn't comment on the price of the current chip. However, assured it would be according to "market prices". "Rikor" (a Russian server company) estimates the prices will start at approx. 50 dollars.
    -Plans to deliver up to 100,000 CPUs in 2016. Which equals to 5 million dollars.
    -In 3-5 years the company plans to have several percent of the global market.
    -Chips will be sold to Germany, Israel, China, Brazil, Argentina and the UAE.
    -According to an American research company, IC Insights, the semi-conductor market will be worth 87 billion dollars in 2018. "Baikal Electronics" is able to get at least 1 billion dollars of that market.
    -The most important selling point of their MIPS chips is the very high computational power, while using minimal energy, according to the company.
    -Interest and demand in their chip is higher than they anticipated. Approximately 100 Russian and foreign companies have shown interest.

    Hopefully I have the most important pieces covered. I'm very excited about this company cheers

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:29 am

    Why not aim to have these chips sold to more than listed countries? I bet they would be beneficial in countries like Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, etc.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:49 am

    The Elbrus processors for the mass market
    As is known, the Russian company MCST, part of the United Instrument Corporation (OPK), announced for 2016 serial production of the latest domestic OCTA-core processor Elbrus-8C technology 28 nm.
    According to the statement of the General Director of OPK Alexander Yakunin: now Elbrus 8C is tested and at the end of the year should go to the state tests.
    And here in July, Vladimir Putin expressed confidence that the domestic use of microprocessors Elbrus will not remain the lot of only the military, and soon spread to many civil industry.
    Mentioned presidential statement was made at the it forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma" during the meeting of Putin with young scientists. Here's what was said, almost verbatim:
    Y. Ivanik: Good afternoon, Mr Putin. My name is Yuri Ivanik. I came from Krasnodar, of Academy IMSIT, student.
    I have a question. Asked a question about import substitution. I know that MCST, if I'm not mistaken, has developed a processor architecture Elbrus-M, but at the moment it is only available to certain institutions and, in my opinion, some military. Such question: whether it is available to civil or it will remain as defense part?
    Vladimir Putin: You know, any discoveries, achievements, and developments in the military for the needs of defense and security sooner or later be consigned civil industries and civic life. The Internet, as of this began. Intelligence was developed 30 years ago, and then began to introduce. First, for correspondence in the States, and then wider and wider.
    Into space how people flew? What did you work on? Over the means of delivery of a nuclear warhead — that worked for. And Queens has worked on it, among other things, first and foremost, and then all civil program. We have.
    We are still our partners and competitors "will rejoice" our latest developments in the field of defence and security. But what we will show, we won't keep forever secret, one way or another will be used in civil industries. And this [development Elbrus] too, of course.
    Elbrus were supported by the state?
    In a press-service of the defence industry, which includes the company MCST, in an interview with CNews.ru stated that it was not initiated such a question to Putin, and the Corporation and the company MCST did not participate in the forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma".
    However, the process looks like and the last statement of the President suggests that in our electronics really began tectonic shifts.
    Try to understand yourself, what is actually happening and how MP Elbrus is planned to be used and applied in various spheres of Russian electronics and related areas. To do this, let's just look at a plan of import substitution in the electronic industry of Russia and look for the word Elbrus.
    In addition, the plan provides for the creation on the basis of domestic processor, the following components for the mass market:
    • Tablet for the mass market and the hardware platform of the Russian production to create a line of tablets
    • Tablet for organizations and institutions (with high requirements for data protection) on the basis of domestic hardware platform, including protected
    • Personal supercomputer is a high — performance workstation and equipment for a range of finished devices
    • Home-based routers local network
    • Telecommunication equipment
    • Medical equipment
    • Microwave electronics
    • Led technology
    • and much more
    Well, as they say, draw your own conclusions ...
    Sources:
    http://minpromtorg.gov.ru...upload/files/docs/662.PDF
    http://www.cnews.ru/top/2...danskoe_primenenie_597538
    http://mcst.ru/vosmiyader...or-s-arkhitekturoj-elbrus
    http://mcst.ru/arm-elbrus401
    http://mcst.ru/server_elbrus-4.4

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:50 am

    First deliveries debug complexes with Multiclet R1

    Looks like Microclet will start to get customers.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  victor1985 on Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:54 pm

    Anyone has a book or something about computer chips? Something with details about how they are work and how are they builded?

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:15 am

    victor1985 wrote:Anyone has a book or something about computer chips? Something with details about how they are work and how are they builded?

    Do a search on bookzz.org. It is a great resource for books although somewhat shady.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:19 am

    Russia boosts construction of data data processing centers (DPC)


    _________________
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:36 pm

    "Steepness" CMO will help create miniature systems for space and aviation

    Development allows 3-4 times to reduce the size and weight of devices



    The combined instrument-making company has developed multi-chip assembly technology VLSI based on 3D-integration techniques, enabling 3-4 times to reduce the weight and size of the devices. On the basis of its already established an experimental model of a miniature on-board unit for the spacecraft and aircraft.

    Development of technologies, code-named "steepness" engaged Concern "Constellation", the Research Institute of Electronic Technology in cooperation with NGOs Automatics. Academician NA Semikhatova.

    A new technology based on 3D-integration techniques allows to increase the functionality of devices per unit area and volume, improve their performance, lower power consumption products. With it has made on-board processing unit, storage, and exchange of information with external devices that are used, for example, microminiature control systems of spacecraft.

    Weight-board module based on the old planar technology of hybrid microcircuits of 38 grams, the new module - 10 grams, which is almost 4 times less. Dimensions reduced by 3 times - from 150 to 48 mm. In this functional characteristics remain unchanged.

    "This technology can be called basic and advanced. Today, it can be used in parallel planar, but is intended to replace it in the future - said the chief designer of developmental work "steepness" Andrei Stoyanov. - The stock performance of the module created by this technology, many times the overall performance of its constituent elements. This makes it possible to apply the technology in the future with the most modern and productive elements of electronic components - ultrafast signal processing microprocessors, microcontrollers, memory circuits and other large volume. ".

    Now on the basis of the concern "Constellation" is a further elaboration of technology to create a wide range of high-speed miniaturized multichip modules computing and control devices in the fields of space and aviation.

    http://rostec.ru/news/4517313

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:11 am

    Photofacts: Construction progress Angstrom-T


    my fav quote:
    And I thought about this plant the whole country knows. In comments to the news by any opponents continually reduce calls to their own lack of microelectronic production. That this plant is the solution.

    The truth is not all, but a large part of it. This is the first full-cycle plant (sputtering plates, lithography, korpusirovka chips). The installed equipment allows now producing chips with 90 nm toponormoy. After developing its own technology or licensing it from other plants (Micron, STM, IBM) will be producing chips with 45 nm toponormoy without serious modernization of equipment. If modify existing factory lithographers to use liquids as lenses, it will be possible to receive modern toponormy up to 22 nm.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:17 pm

    First look at Elbrus-8C motherboard with processor

    Photo taken from sdelanounas website

    So as a gift to all nerds such as myself for the new years, MCST has released the first look of Elbrus-8C microprocessor and its motherboard.

    Last year (2015) was a tough year, with sanctions and the need to fast track development for import substitution, especially in the microelectronics sector of the economy. But MCST is working hard and so far have apparently completed tests of three chips: Elbrus-8C (8 core Elbrus E2K cores), Elbrus-1C+ (Single Elbrus E2K core with integrated GPU) and KPI-2 Southbridge chipset.

    Other interesting news is that MCST is continuing work on their MCST-R line of processors (which use the V9 of SPARC architecture) and will be coming out with a 28nm variant of it, as well as tests completed on Elbrus Servers 4.4 using the Elbrus E2K Core 4 core processors (Elbrus-4C) and workstations Elbrus-401 which also utilizes the Elbrus-4C processor. Both systems are currently available for purchase but are not open to standard use but for government and industrial use as far as I am aware. So such systems will not be replacing your Intel or AMD systems anytime soon if you so wish to.

    I wish MCST the best in 2016 in their endeavors, as this is very important for import substitution and for government agencies/military as a whole. Hopefully, with enough orders, such systems will become much cheaper in the long run and will become available for personal computer consumer market.

    Sources:

    sdelanounas.ru

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kimppis on Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:21 am

    It seems that Russia isn't doing too well in supercomputers:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/moores-law-for-supercomputers/

    Any future plans? Are they only using domestic chips or why do they rank so low? Isn't that a major issue?

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:36 am

    Kimppis wrote:It seems that Russia isn't doing too well in supercomputers:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/moores-law-for-supercomputers/

    Any future plans? Are they only using domestic chips or why do they rank so low? Isn't that a major issue?

    The only thing that matters is if the research institutes and industrial design centers have access to the systems
    they need. These won't be listed in any Top 500 list unless they feel the need to join this NATO circle jerk.

    The largest supercomputers are useful for fluid dynamics simulations, which include nuclear bomb detonations
    and atmospheric chemistry and transport models at high resolution. It looks like Russia does not need to
    simulate its nuclear devices like the USA. One can laugh and dick stroke about how Russians are inferior, but
    they have always relied on mathematical approaches (e.g. asymptotic perturbation expansions) and pencil
    and paper instead of a big numerical box. They have clearly done quite well with their approach.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:40 am

    Major institutes like Rosatom or various schools amd defense companies have supercomputers.  The rest on the list is like what KVS said, wank session.  T-Platforms and another company deals with HPC's and making them, so they have them and the ability.  But to simply state that they need them to be part of a ranking is a waste of money.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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