Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Share
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:19 pm

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I noticed from this: http://mcst.ru/pozdravlenie-direktora-mcst-s-nastupayushhimi-prazdnikami

    That Elbrus 1C is mentioned, and 1C would be a single core processor.  I am hoping that it will have a decent frequency of something similar to 1GHZ and I really hope they introduce this as a processor solderd to a pico board and sold as a competitor to Raspberry Pi!  I would seriously purchase dozens if not more of them to build my own routers, small form factor NAS (similar to those dlink USB powered ones) and home theater setups.  I seriously hope they do something like this, as this will create the domestic computer boom in Russia, as well as home built projects.  Actually, such systems are also used in creating other products like automated CNC style machines (Smaller ones), 3D printers, etc.

    The Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C could be the products that will bring MCST into a new generation.

    I just hope they decide to eventually drop the SPARC line of processors.  They are not needed anymore as VLIW processors are RISC processors much like SPARC's are.  Would be redundant.

    The SPARC CPUs are for their military production lines.   They are quite useful for the products they are deployed in.

    MCST is like a university department and not a corporation such as Intel or AMD.   Russia needs an actual corporation to
    develop and sell microprocessor designs.  

    I don't understand why an Intel clone design is not attempted.  I don't believe that the instruction set is patentable in
    principle.  As long as the microprocessor does not copy the IC design of Intel parts, then it should be free from any
    patent violation claims.  

    The Elbrus design is really for scientific and engineering applications.  Since Russia will not have the weight to overcome
    Intel and Microsoft in the consumer sector, they should have a domestic CPU that runs Intel instructions natively.  

    MCST proved that their processors are capable of running for domestic use, besides supercomputing, workstations and servers. Hence why a Single core processor meant to compete against Raspberry Pi would be beneficial in the long run as it would create a major demand. Since they produced Angstrom, up to 65nm tech (I am pretty sure they can get even lower if they invest in Rusnano Lithography technology), they can produce the products in Russia itself. But I agree, a company designed specifically for the domestic consumer market is the right move. Issue is, AMD and Intel do have patents on their Instruction sets, thus if the company created does want to make a CISC processor, they would either have to come up with similar instruction sets or make their own entirely. Since Intel and AMD copied from each other back in the 90's, outright breaking copyright laws, I am pretty certain the next company can do it.

    SPARC processors are fine for certain applications, but I imagine that the VLIW of the Elbrus processor would be able to handle the same tasks even better. Reducing to 1 design rather than two separate ones may be financially beneficial in the long run. As well, creating a chip for the use of domestic market (Elbrus 2GM, Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C) is very much needed. As I pointed out already, a company will be making NAS systems with it. Elbrus 1C can effectively be used for creating routers, small NAS', raspberry pi alternatives, etc. This alone can generate ridiculous amounts of revenue. Since most of the software used for such technology are in Linux, it wont need to operate under x86 environment.

    MCST can also act as a place to design new processors for companies who want to become like Intel or AMD.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3651
    Points : 3762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:30 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I noticed from this: http://mcst.ru/pozdravlenie-direktora-mcst-s-nastupayushhimi-prazdnikami

    That Elbrus 1C is mentioned, and 1C would be a single core processor.  I am hoping that it will have a decent frequency of something similar to 1GHZ and I really hope they introduce this as a processor solderd to a pico board and sold as a competitor to Raspberry Pi!  I would seriously purchase dozens if not more of them to build my own routers, small form factor NAS (similar to those dlink USB powered ones) and home theater setups.  I seriously hope they do something like this, as this will create the domestic computer boom in Russia, as well as home built projects.  Actually, such systems are also used in creating other products like automated CNC style machines (Smaller ones), 3D printers, etc.

    The Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C could be the products that will bring MCST into a new generation.

    I just hope they decide to eventually drop the SPARC line of processors.  They are not needed anymore as VLIW processors are RISC processors much like SPARC's are.  Would be redundant.

    The SPARC CPUs are for their military production lines.   They are quite useful for the products they are deployed in.

    MCST is like a university department and not a corporation such as Intel or AMD.   Russia needs an actual corporation to
    develop and sell microprocessor designs.  

    I don't understand why an Intel clone design is not attempted.  I don't believe that the instruction set is patentable in
    principle.  As long as the microprocessor does not copy the IC design of Intel parts, then it should be free from any
    patent violation claims.  

    The Elbrus design is really for scientific and engineering applications.  Since Russia will not have the weight to overcome
    Intel and Microsoft in the consumer sector, they should have a domestic CPU that runs Intel instructions natively.  

    MCST proved that their processors are capable of running for domestic use, besides supercomputing, workstations and servers.  Hence why a Single core processor meant to compete against Raspberry Pi would be beneficial in the long run as it would create a major demand.  Since they produced Angstrom, up to 65nm tech (I am pretty sure they can get even lower if they invest in Rusnano Lithography technology), they can produce the products in Russia itself.  But I agree, a company designed specifically for the domestic consumer market is the right move.  Issue is, AMD and Intel do have patents on their Instruction sets, thus if the company created does want to make a CISC processor, they would either have to come up with similar instruction sets or make their own entirely.  Since Intel and AMD copied from each other back in the 90's, outright breaking copyright laws, I am pretty certain the next company can do it.

    SPARC processors are fine for certain applications, but I imagine that the VLIW of the Elbrus processor would be able to handle the same tasks even better.  Reducing to 1 design rather than two separate ones may be financially beneficial in the long run.  As well, creating a chip for the use of domestic market (Elbrus 2GM, Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C) is very much needed.  As I pointed out already, a company will be making NAS systems with it.  Elbrus 1C can effectively be used for creating routers, small NAS', raspberry pi alternatives, etc.  This alone can generate ridiculous amounts of revenue.  Since most of the software used for such technology are in Linux, it wont need to operate under x86 environment.

    MCST can also act as a place to design new processors for companies who want to become like Intel or AMD.

    I think this BS patent can be circumvented. The Intel instruction stream should be trivially remapped by the Russian RISC CPU in a translator
    implemented in silicon. The trick is to have the Russian CPU be a RISC species like the Intel and AMD chips. The Elbrus is just too drastically
    different from the Intel/AMD RISC designs so binary translation has to be extensive and at the end of the day you have to get the code and
    optimize it and compile it for the Elbrus to get good performance.

    A clone Russian RISC CPU would be basically what AMD does. AMD produces its own IC designs to execute the Intel instruction set to which
    obtained rights a long time ago. Mapping from the Intel instruction set to a native instruction set that is almost identical in silicon is definitely a
    way to beat the US Patent Office racket.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:34 pm

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I noticed from this: http://mcst.ru/pozdravlenie-direktora-mcst-s-nastupayushhimi-prazdnikami

    That Elbrus 1C is mentioned, and 1C would be a single core processor.  I am hoping that it will have a decent frequency of something similar to 1GHZ and I really hope they introduce this as a processor solderd to a pico board and sold as a competitor to Raspberry Pi!  I would seriously purchase dozens if not more of them to build my own routers, small form factor NAS (similar to those dlink USB powered ones) and home theater setups.  I seriously hope they do something like this, as this will create the domestic computer boom in Russia, as well as home built projects.  Actually, such systems are also used in creating other products like automated CNC style machines (Smaller ones), 3D printers, etc.

    The Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C could be the products that will bring MCST into a new generation.

    I just hope they decide to eventually drop the SPARC line of processors.  They are not needed anymore as VLIW processors are RISC processors much like SPARC's are.  Would be redundant.

    The SPARC CPUs are for their military production lines.   They are quite useful for the products they are deployed in.

    MCST is like a university department and not a corporation such as Intel or AMD.   Russia needs an actual corporation to
    develop and sell microprocessor designs.  

    I don't understand why an Intel clone design is not attempted.  I don't believe that the instruction set is patentable in
    principle.  As long as the microprocessor does not copy the IC design of Intel parts, then it should be free from any
    patent violation claims.  

    The Elbrus design is really for scientific and engineering applications.  Since Russia will not have the weight to overcome
    Intel and Microsoft in the consumer sector, they should have a domestic CPU that runs Intel instructions natively.  

    MCST proved that their processors are capable of running for domestic use, besides supercomputing, workstations and servers.  Hence why a Single core processor meant to compete against Raspberry Pi would be beneficial in the long run as it would create a major demand.  Since they produced Angstrom, up to 65nm tech (I am pretty sure they can get even lower if they invest in Rusnano Lithography technology), they can produce the products in Russia itself.  But I agree, a company designed specifically for the domestic consumer market is the right move.  Issue is, AMD and Intel do have patents on their Instruction sets, thus if the company created does want to make a CISC processor, they would either have to come up with similar instruction sets or make their own entirely.  Since Intel and AMD copied from each other back in the 90's, outright breaking copyright laws, I am pretty certain the next company can do it.

    SPARC processors are fine for certain applications, but I imagine that the VLIW of the Elbrus processor would be able to handle the same tasks even better.  Reducing to 1 design rather than two separate ones may be financially beneficial in the long run.  As well, creating a chip for the use of domestic market (Elbrus 2GM, Elbrus 1C and Elbrus 8C) is very much needed.  As I pointed out already, a company will be making NAS systems with it.  Elbrus 1C can effectively be used for creating routers, small NAS', raspberry pi alternatives, etc.  This alone can generate ridiculous amounts of revenue.  Since most of the software used for such technology are in Linux, it wont need to operate under x86 environment.

    MCST can also act as a place to design new processors for companies who want to become like Intel or AMD.

    I think this BS patent can be circumvented.   The Intel instruction stream should be trivially remapped by the Russian RISC CPU in a translator
    implemented in silicon.   The trick is to have the Russian CPU be a RISC species like the Intel and AMD chips.   The Elbrus is just too drastically
    different from the Intel/AMD RISC designs so binary translation has to be extensive and at the end of the day you have to get the code and
    optimize it and compile it for the Elbrus to get good performance.  

    A clone Russian RISC CPU would be basically what AMD does.   AMD produces its own IC designs to execute the Intel instruction set to which
    obtained rights a long time ago.  Mapping from the Intel instruction set to a native instruction set that is almost identical in silicon is definitely a
    way to beat the US Patent Office racket.    

    True, but that would mean MCST would have to open a new R&D for it. I still think the SPARC design is too old and not needed, so they can scrap that. MIPS would work I would imagine.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17957
    Points : 18531
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:41 am

    Since Intel and AMD copied from each other back in the 90's, outright breaking copyright laws, I am pretty certain the next company can do it.

    You should know the American judicial system better than that... American companies can copy American companies but a Russian company... that is treason.


    AFAIK the PC is IBM based and the vast majority are therefore clones that meet the same standards.

    As long as they meet the same input and output specifications they should be compatible no matter how they are designed internally.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Mike E

    Posts : 2737
    Points : 2779
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Since Intel and AMD copied from each other back in the 90's, outright breaking copyright laws, I am pretty certain the next company can do it.
    You should know the American judicial system better than that... American companies can copy American companies but a Russian company... that is treason.
    Maybe then but not any more... They're all patent trolls nowadays.

    indochina

    Posts : 43
    Points : 65
    Join date : 2013-02-07

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  indochina on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:32 am

    don't forget Transas company
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:56 am

    indochina wrote:don't forget Transas company

    Ok. Can you please clarify?
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1543
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:18 am

    sepheronx, got a question for you, is there a Russian equivalent to the Raspberry Pi on the market or in the works, it would be a great way to get Elbrus processor on the market? dunno
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:51 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:sepheronx, got a question for you, is there a Russian equivalent to the Raspberry Pi on the market or in the works, it would be a great way to get Elbrus processor on the market? dunno

    Currently, the only one is from NTC Module: http://www.module.ru/catalog/micro/micro_pc/

    This is why I am hoping that once the Elbrus 1C is released, and the Elbrus with the built on GPGPU (much like APU from AMD), I am hoping they get into the competitive market of integrated IC boards for multipurpose systems. A board using a Elbrus 1C or 2C with 2GB of built in RAM would definately be a powerhouse for multipurpose systems like: Making your own router/switch box, DVR, MiniNAS, micro servers, controllers for nearly everything.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1543
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:25 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:sepheronx, got a question for you, is there a Russian equivalent to the Raspberry Pi on the market or in the works, it would be a great way to get Elbrus processor on the market? dunno

    Currently, the only one is from NTC Module: http://www.module.ru/catalog/micro/micro_pc/

    This is why I am hoping that once the Elbrus 1C is released, and the Elbrus with the built on GPGPU (much like APU from AMD), I am hoping they get into the competitive market of integrated IC boards for multipurpose systems.  A board using a Elbrus 1C or 2C with 2GB of built in RAM would definately be a powerhouse for multipurpose systems like: Making your own router/switch box, DVR, MiniNAS, micro servers, controllers for nearly everything.
    Good to hear that there's at least someone trying make them, though a quick search shows that it might as well not exist (not even an ad vid on youtube), other then there main website there is pretty much no mention of it anywhere els, this is Russia's problem it's feel like either there to scared to compete or there unable to enter the market for some reason, so my next question is, where is Russia's Amazon?? angel

    Vann7

    Posts : 3785
    Points : 3891
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:sepheronx, got a question for you, is there a Russian equivalent to the Raspberry Pi on the market or in the works, it would be a great way to get Elbrus processor on the market? dunno

    Currently, the only one is from NTC Module: http://www.module.ru/catalog/micro/micro_pc/

    This is why I am hoping that once the Elbrus 1C is released, and the Elbrus with the built on GPGPU (much like APU from AMD), I am hoping they get into the competitive market of integrated IC boards for multipurpose systems.  A board using a Elbrus 1C or 2C with 2GB of built in RAM would definately be a powerhouse for multipurpose systems like: Making your own router/switch box, DVR, MiniNAS, micro servers, controllers for nearly everything.

    Have you heard if Russia had a project to design something completely new , not using western technology?
    Whenever i mention people about Elbrus they tell me  oh ..thats based on american technology SPARC/RISC arquitecture from SUn Microsystems/Oracle..

    You have any info of any semiconductor processor research project not based on american/European technology ,something completely different ?

    For me it will be cooler to just shut up the minions that Russia develop something completely from zero.. and completely radical.. something like a 128bit processor with an arquitecture never seen before in the world of computers. Russia definitively lost such precious time , not fully jumping in the semiconductor industry ..with the same intensity they did in Space.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:11 am

    Started production of Russia's first blade server in the Russian processor
    Put into production the first series servers "Elbrus 4.4", working on the basis of processors "Elbrus-4C", developed by the MCST. Its creators claim that "Elbrus 4.4" - this is the first server that is fully developed in Russia on the basis of domestic same processor.
    Russian developer of computer systems PJSC "INEUM them. Bruk "for the first time publicly announced the start of production servers proprietary" Elbrus 4.4 ". The work was conducted in close cooperation with ZAO "MCST" developers processors "Elbrus".
    "Elbrus 4.4" is built around four (or optionally two) quad-core "Elbrus-4C", performed in the topology of 65 nm. This is the latest model of the processor, developed by MCST. Start of serial production of his future successor, eight-«Elbrus-8C" with the topology of 28 nm is expected early next year.
    Server "Elbrus 4.4" is made in the 19-inch height 1Unit body with the ability to supply buildings and 2Unit 3Unit. It has a capacity of up to 200 Gflops peak and supports up to 384 GB of RAM.
    "Elbrus 4.4" is suitable for the assembly of the blade clusters. To join the server to the cluster in PJSC "INEUM" developed network Interconnect 10G class 2D torus topology with a capacity of up to 64 servers.
    According to CNews, assembling motherboards servers "Elbrus" engaged FSUE "October". By now the time put into production a series of "Elbrus 4.4" in the amount of several dozen pieces.
    MCST traditionally tries to avoid references to the names of its government customers. As a representative told CNews MTsSTKonstantin Trushkin, interest in purchasing these servers showed "major oil and gas companies" and the security forces.
    Server "Elbrus 4.4" - not the first computing device, designed and built based on processors MCST. Thus, for example, are known PC "Monokub" and specialized computer systems "Sivuch" that are based on the previous generation "Elbrus-2C +".
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:18 pm

    Rumors I heard on sdelanounas are that MCST is not going to release Elbrus 8C but an Elbrus 8SC or something along those lines where its onboard memory controller is DDR4 memory that was recently released. This will greatly increase performance as well as make it far more competitive.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:07 pm

    Tomsk University once again creates something:
    Siberians want to rid transistors of precious metals
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:38 pm

    Source: Baikal Electronics named “Russia’s first” chip R&D center

    Kinda an insult to MCST and Microclet but still good to hear they are working on it.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3651
    Points : 3762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:24 pm

    http://mcst.ru/novye-produkty-na-baze-mikroprocessora-elbrus4s-dostupny-dlya-zakaza

    Elbrus CPU products hitting the market.


    Vann7

    Posts : 3785
    Points : 3891
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:26 pm

    Russian Companies to Challenge Apple, Samsung and Others in Domestic Electronics Market


    Russia is currently moving, slowly but steadily, towards import substitution, and the government’s enthusiasm is increasingly impacting the economy across economic sectors. In IT, for example, plans to create this country’s own operating system (apparently to oust Microsoft’s Windows from its present throne) and software have been recently aired. However, this is but a palliative without a dramatic reshuffle in the entire radio electronic hardware segment, government officials think. The Russian Ministry of Industry and Commerce has come up with a new plan that outlines steps for Russia to have its own tablets, smartphones, laptops and desktop PCs by 2020 already.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-moves-unseat-apple-samsung-and-others-domestic-radio-electronic-market/6038

    As i mentioned before.. Russia is on the tipping point of its Nation future.. whether it will be a
    successful nation or a failed one.. It can not longer depend on their "western partners" for anything. And the ability to remain independent will not depends on how many nukes they make or submarines or their military power.which is good enough already since soviet times to
    avoid any invasion..  But their ability to Influence the world..  So Russia either have only
    TWO options ,either they become another European Vassal state of the americans and give up
    its Independence and sovereignty or they become a real Alternative to USA ..either with its own
    capabilities or in alliance with India and China or perhaps also Latin countries..

    This means Russia needs to become a super power which means a super influential nation in the world.. and building many warships and more nukes is not the way to become influential. But by becoming a SUper economic Power with Super technology industry. Russia needs to be stronger
    that USA in the things they can that is Military and Space...and need to be at least very decent and competitive in the things they are behind like Semiconductor Industry ,Software industry ,
    and any technology that is always the one that people goes and rush to the stores in Christmast to buy. Russia cannot continue allowing companies like Microsoft ,Apple ,Intel ,Nvidia ,and its holywood industry to continue winning the hearts of Russians ..when you do internet piracy is nothing else than downloading an american produced software. either for business or for entertainment like games this is retarded why Russia do not have a strong alternative to microsoft this is just a freaking Programing system not rocket science . Just lot of work. ,even North Korea developed an Operating system that looks like Apple Leopard. Neither Russia can continue to lag behind in the variety of smart phones home entertainment and technology industry. From Movies to video games to music.  Is not that Russia will now have to develop gaming consoles.. But developing a highly competitive PC and having their own new Internet ,free of NSA spying with all ASIA and BRICS nations and LATIN america too and having their own Ebay like trading in the new internet, will be a Huge blow to the west ,to totally destroying US ambition plans of world domination and the isolating of Russia.

    If Russia Reduce their Navy ,removing all expensive to maintain soviet destroyers and old soviet frigates and just remain with a small but modern Surface fleet.. like france.. just stay with Gorskov type frigates , (they building 12) and just ~30 corvettes ..cut their icebreakers in half while keeping their submarines ,they will have a ton of more money to invest in the Modernization of Russia Industry and even triple their budget in space project which is very prestigious for the promotion not only of Russia in the world as an indispensable player , but also promotes the modernization of Russia. Simply Russia is missing opportunities and really have the weird idea that building more warships and submarines or investing heavily in sports , will save them from world isolation.. or from an Euromaidan revolution.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:31 pm



    video with Zelenograd.

    Vann7

    Posts : 3785
    Points : 3891
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:15 pm

    Nice video.. thx for sharing seph . Smile

    English substitles will be even nicer still is nice to see the tech.

    Austin

    Posts : 6700
    Points : 7097
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Austin on Sat May 02, 2015 8:41 pm

    I am just wondering how wide spread is the use MCST Chips in Russia ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Center_of_SPARC_Technologies
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 02, 2015 8:47 pm

    Austin wrote:I am just wondering how wide spread is the use MCST Chips in Russia ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Center_of_SPARC_Technologies

    Very hard to say since majority of them are simply for use for specific industries.  With 4C and 8C not fully developed yet in terms of industrial use, we will hear about it later.  Already companies are building Elbrus based systems like T-Platforms with an Elbrus 2C+ 2U servers and workstations based upon 4C and more.  Since it was pushed by ministry of industry and trade, their products will get more demand, especially now days.  But only time you hear of its use is by passing.  Hopefully that will change.

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/61364/

    Although, it is mentioned all orders have to be approved and it has to be legal entities. So that alone gives me the indication only specific groups can purchase the equipment and not just anyone, which sucks cause I would have made an order to try it out.

    I am hoping that there will be a demand or finances (after all of this development and purchases from government) to produce a civil product.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3651
    Points : 3762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2015 9:30 pm

    The persistence and development of the Elbrus architecture shows that there is a long term commitment to it.
    To me it is also clear that it is being coordinated with the development of high resolution IC manufacturing capacity,
    which is now at 65 nm. Really, it is the fabrication infrastructure that is the important element here. Russia is
    not merely waiting for second hand equipment from the west. The 65 nm capacity was developed in house from
    90 nm equipment. But Rosnano is also financing the development of laser lithography, which will put Russia at
    the leading edge of the field.

    The older Elbrus CPUs were manufactured in China. The 8C and higher core versions I expect to be produced in Russia.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7176
    Points : 7456
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 02, 2015 11:26 pm

    kvs wrote:The persistence and development of the Elbrus architecture shows that there is a long term commitment to it.
    To me it is also clear that it is being coordinated with the development of high resolution IC manufacturing capacity,
    which is now at 65 nm.  Really, it is the fabrication infrastructure that is the important element here.  Russia is
    not merely waiting for second hand equipment from the west.   The 65 nm capacity was developed in house from
    90 nm equipment.   But Rosnano is also financing the development of laser lithography, which will put Russia at
    the leading edge of the field.  

    The older Elbrus CPUs were manufactured in China.   The 8C and higher core versions I expect to be produced in Russia.

    Not for quite some time. Not till the Rusnano Lithography tech is out. It will still be made in TMSC in Taiwan.

    That said, they are putting effort into this processors line of development.
    avatar
    Neutrality

    Posts : 853
    Points : 871
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Sat May 02, 2015 11:37 pm

    kvs wrote:The persistence and development of the Elbrus architecture shows that there is a long term commitment to it.
    To me it is also clear that it is being coordinated with the development of high resolution IC manufacturing capacity,
    which is now at 65 nm.  Really, it is the fabrication infrastructure that is the important element here.  Russia is
    not merely waiting for second hand equipment from the west.   The 65 nm capacity was developed in house from
    90 nm equipment.   But Rosnano is also financing the development of laser lithography, which will put Russia at
    the leading edge of the field.  

    The older Elbrus CPUs were manufactured in China.   The 8C and higher core versions I expect to be produced in Russia.

    AMD, Apple, nVidia and Qualcomm all use TSMC's and GlobalFoundries' fabs. There's no shame in it and it's actually an advantage because building your own fabs is extremely expensive and you need very specific personel for that. Elbrus-8C will be produced in TSMC's fabs on the 28nm scale. Designing a CPU which can achieve 250 Gflops on a 28nm process alone is a giant leap forward for the Russian IT industry. There's also the announced Baikal CPU based on the 64-bit ARM (RISC) architecture. That is another giant step in the right direction for the country's IT industry.

    AFAIK only Intel and Samsung have their own facilities to produce their own CPUs. But these companies are multi billion conglomerates that can afford it. Hell, AMD's entire company budget is as big as Intel's R&D budget alone. That should give you an idea.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3651
    Points : 3762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2015 1:31 am

    From what I understand, chip production is an art.  TSMC would produce the Elbrus using library component layouts.
    Intel spends a great deal of effort to hand optimize these transistor layouts before etching the silicon.   The performance
    gain is substantial.   One of the reasons the Elbrus as been stuck at a small clock frequency at each process resolution
    is because TSMC does not conduct such hand optimization.   And MCST has had little chance to develop such optimization
    capacity.  So we see clock speed gain essentially from process shrinkage and likely some attempt at MCST to make better
    use of the library layouts.   I guess TSMC is also increasing its own capacity to work with customers to squeeze extra
    performance out.   But that is not their focus.   Russia needs an Intel type development and production.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun May 27, 2018 11:47 pm