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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

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    kvs
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Sun May 17, 2015 1:39 pm

    I am not seeing any trolling from Book.

    But elsewhere I am seeing trolling in the form of repeating bald faced lies and expecting them to be treated as facts.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 20, 2015 6:46 pm

    I have a question for sepheronx and kvs. What do you make of this article?

    DIC is developing next-generation technologies for electronics manufacturing

    Using three-dimensional circuits allow to reduce the dimensions and weight of the article several times



    The combined instrument-making corporation intends to master the production of electronic equipment using new technologies. Their use will create a lighter and more compact next-generation electronics - communications equipment, telecommunications equipment, electronic warfare systems, automated control systems and robotic systems, including UAVs.

    As explained by CEO of DIC, Alexander Yakunin, the production of electronic equipment using the multilayer hybrid integrated circuits of high density (3D-GIS, 3-DMS), three-dimensional circuits on plastics (3D-MID) can significantly improve the reliability of the equipment, improve its characteristics for performance and power consumption reduce the size and weight of products in four or eight times.

    The head of the holding company said that these characteristics will be relevant for the equipment supplied in the framework of the state defense order for the space, aviation, navy, for all the equipment that is used in extreme conditions.

    Unlike conventional printed circuit boards, the use of three-dimensional circuits on plastics, where mechanical and electronic components are integrated into an article of plastic, provides a very high design flexibility, simplifies valve construction, reduce its size and weight. This technology is particularly relevant in the production of portable radios, throat microphones, telecommunication equipment.

    Flexible and flex-rigid printed circuit boards with embedded components - the most complex structure connecting modern electronic equipment. Due to its flexibility they allow installation in tight spaces. They can also be used as flexible connectors between the parts of electronic devices, replacing wires, harnesses and connectors. Components thus embedded in the surface of the board, in its base, which allows to reduce the weight and dimensions, to improve its reliability and performance.

    Create electronics based on new generation technologies require DIC modernization of production sites and the introduction of new types of production. However, the company will not hold a total re-equipment, instead plans to form industrial clusters, where each organization will focus on the development of certain core technologies. Clusters will be set up for regional and product principles.

    The Board of Directors approved the Concept of the defense industry production and technology development, under which plans to increase labor productivity by almost 3 times - to the level of the world's manufacturers and 4 times increase the profitability of assets that by 2025 reach a level of 240 billion rubles in revenue and occupy 30 th place in the ranking of the top 100 global manufacturers of electronic products.

    DIC is developing next-generation technologies for electronics manufacturing



    From what I got from the article:

    - It sounds like they're talking about 3-D printing the next-generation of circuit boards out of plastics.

    - They're saying they'll be capable of increasing the efficiency and reliability of electronics while simultaneously reducing the size and weight of electronic components to 1/4th and up to 1/8th size of current electronic components.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 20, 2015 6:54 pm

    It isnt talking about 3D printing of circuits but 3D circuits themselves, which is something I pointed oit earlier in this thread (or another) that is where Russia is aiming for. They are talking of using plastics as well, so my understanding is moving away from ceramics(?) (Maybe KVS can correct me on this).

    Rostec is simply confirming my prediction. This and their move to Photon AESA technology will make Russia leaders in such tech as no one else has done it (photons) or completed it (3D circuitry).

    Sorry for my spelling. Im on phone and without autocorrect, my spelling is horrible.

    kvs
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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Wed May 20, 2015 10:47 pm

    http://www.3d-mid.de/cms/front_content/php?changelang=2&changelang=2&idcat=5&idart=5

    From the description of this effort, it looks like a high density 3D circuit board approach. The article
    from Rostec throws in a reference about 3D ICs but then says zero more about them. So I am not sure
    this has anything to do with 3D ICs.

    But the idea of flexible, 3D printed ICs on plastic would fit this theme perfectly. The target for this high integration
    is not microprocessors but radio electronics and similar. I can see such "low level" electronics being amenable
    to printing on metalized thermoplastics and part of a 3D structure.

    http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150103-recent-developments-in-3d-printed-plastic-electronics-showing-promise.html

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Thu May 21, 2015 12:25 pm

    Groundwork for quantum computers has been laid: http://ria.ru/science/20150520/1065620066.html

    Very exciting news this one.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kyo on Thu May 21, 2015 11:45 pm

    This is great news!

    Russian T-Platforms supercomputer sold to Germany

    The companies paid no attention to the political situation and the fact that a year ago T-Platforms was under sanctions

    The company "T-Platforms", a leading developer of computer equipment, announces the signing of a contract with the German Jülich Supercomputer Center for the supply of supercomputer JURECA. The level of peak performance to date, the system enters the top ten supercomputers in Europe. JURECA is the first precedent in the history of the construction of one of the most powerful computing systems of foreign-based Russian equipment .

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/62663/

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri May 22, 2015 12:32 am

    Neutrality wrote:Groundwork for quantum computers has been laid: http://ria.ru/science/20150520/1065620066.html

    Very exciting news this one.


    Kyo wrote:
    The company "T-Platforms", a leading developer of computer equipment, announces the signing of a contract with the German Jülich Supercomputer Center for the supply of supercomputer JURECA. The level of peak performance to date, the system enters the top ten supercomputers in Europe. JURECA is the first precedent in the history of the construction of one of the most powerful computing systems of foreign-based Russian equipment .

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/62663/


    Important developments.

    The T-Platforms deal with the Germans is unexpected....I wonder whether the politicians will try to block it...not sure if IT products fall under sanctions

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri May 22, 2015 2:06 am

    Computer software priority bill approved by State Duma committee



    MOSCOW, May 19 (RAPSI) – The State Duma's Information Policy and Communications Committee recommended on Tuesday that lawmakers vote to approve in the first reading a bill which requires Russian state-owned entities to buy domestic computer software, RIA Novosti reported.

    http://www.rapsinews.com/legislation_news/20150519/273749188.html

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 23, 2015 1:36 am

    Russian companies have created their own computing platform
    A number of Russian companies have developed Russian converged platform that will allow you to create data centers for various purposes. Development of a system within the country avoids "bookmarks" in the system.
    Software and hardware solution ROCK-R was developed by IBS, Depo Computers, Parallels and Naumen. It can be used both in military information systems and solutions for commercial and government structures. For example, the elements of the solution already used in the services of the electronic government of Kazakhstan and the Russian energy companies.

    Unlike Western systems manufacturers it is designed for the most typical for Russia scenarios. This is taken into account in the design of motherboards, server configurations and software.
    According to the calculations of the participants of the project, this will allow you to offer products, a third of the cost which is the cost of the work of Russian specialists to offer customers the product is 40 percent cheaper than Western equivalents, but also get certified to use the application server system in the industry and for government agencies, because they can not afraid of bookmarks.

    ROCK-R includes server modules (nodes), the number of which can be changed depending on the required loads from the four computational and two for data storage of up to 44 knots. The maximum supported data to 17 petabytes (a petabyte is a thousand terabytes or a million gigabytes) are supported failover configurations and virtual machines. During the development were the main focus of energy efficiency, as the main costs after entering such systems are electricity.

    The direct costs of the project amounted to 60 million rubles, "even under the old course", according to Sergey Eskin, President Depo Computers, however, all participants noted that it is incorrect to estimate the cost of the project only in cash, since spent hundreds of man-hours of work and used the previously developed technology.

    Sergey Mecocci, Chairman of the Board of IBS, which took on the role of the proponent and architect solutions, announced that import of finished solutions are used only imported processors. When you're ready chips Russian Baikal project, the partners are ready to move on to their application. Other components are manufactured in South East Asia, but they are designed in Russia and to make changes to their schemes unlikely. While IBS is not technically Russian, unlike the other participants of the project, but within a few months plans to complete the transition in the Russian jurisdiction

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kyo on Mon May 25, 2015 3:20 pm

    Russian Domestic Development Multicore Processor Issued

    Russian "Baikal Electronics" has released an engineering sample of the new multi-core processor "Baikal-T1" at 1.2 GHz on 28 nm process technology. This is stated in a statement. Hopes that the processor will be used in telecom devices, industrial automation



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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Mon May 25, 2015 4:10 pm

    Awesome news. Baikal is getting its forms Smile

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 25, 2015 5:29 pm

    Fantastic news Kyo, thank you for the find.

    Now it is up to Russian companies and developers to buy into this. For instance, Russian cellphone developers and tablet developers like Yota devices and others (I know there are a few Russian brands).

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Mon May 25, 2015 10:56 pm

    Kyo wrote:Russian Domestic Development Multicore Processor Issued

    Russian "Baikal Electronics" has released an engineering sample of the new multi-core processor "Baikal-T1" at 1.2 GHz on 28 nm process technology. This is stated in a statement. Hopes that the processor will be used in telecom devices, industrial automation




    So this thing uses the P5600 MIPS core:

    http://www.imgtec.com/mips/warrior/pclass.asp



    It has 128 bit SIMD integer and FP units. So it can process 4 x 32 bit FP instructions per clock which is nice.

    I though it was an ARM based chip, but it is actually based on MIPS.


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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 25, 2015 11:07 pm

    Interesting indeed. But maybe due to sanctions they couldnt get license? Anyway, fantastic news!

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Tue May 26, 2015 9:55 am

    Yeah that was my understanding as well. Thought it would use the ARM-Cortex A57 architecture.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 26, 2015 1:41 pm

    The thing that gets me is that it really isnt what they initially stated it was. My best guess, looking at what they are aiming this chip for, is either going with MIPS for certain applications then ARM, or they are possibly just going to stick to MIPS? I wouldnt see the point of going between both and just sticking to one.

    Hopefully after this, they will aim at their own RISC architecture like MCST with their own VLIW. But this is the right first step. Hopefully they will release civil devices powered with these cores.

    It is mentioned ministry of industry and trade sanctioned the development, which is strange since they also did same for MCST and reading further in, both chips are for similar applications. So why the overlap?

    I am excited to see what is in store in the future.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 26, 2015 7:12 pm

    Serial manufacture of Russian 8-core processor Elbrus to start in 2016 — developer

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kyo on Tue May 26, 2015 8:43 pm

    What are the pros and cons of using MIPS vs. ARM processor architecture for baseband or application processors for smartphones and tablets?

    Honestly, there's little "real-world difference" between the two architectures; product design is largely driven by other factors. However, I'd say that availability and existing code base are often the deciding factors in choosing one architecture over another; it can be challenging to buy a sub-10k quantity of high-performance MIPS SoCs, whereas you can easily get an i.MX/OMAP/Sitara/Tegra2/etc. solution; if the necessary OS/software/drivers are only available for one architecture, that will be your architecture.

    Architecture-wise, ARM has fewer registers but more addressing modes. MIPS has more registers, but fewer addressing modes. --> I suppose that MIPS would have a slight performance advantage when the memory bus is slow and you're in a position to take advantage of having more registers.

    Can you identify what is the single biggest constraint anyone has when working on smartphones or tablets? Give yourself a minute to think before reading further..Assuming you got it right...its battery aka power...Since vendors are making the phone "smart" by adding many functions to it, consumers also want to do lot more , but still they don't want to drain the battery out...So any architecture should be power efficient ..As it turns out, ARM processors has the best power efficient processors or in another words they have advantage of in power performance ratio...Now add another dimension to this. You need an OS and android primarily is based on RISC based architectures and so OS portability is important..And next is marketing..ARM did an amazing job in marketing and selling its solutions..It targeted the right segment...MIPS used to have larger share in Settop box markets etc...

    But now MIPS and Intel with ATOM ver2 processor are closing the gap with ARM ...so its matter of time when there will not be much technical advantage going ARM processors...There are also other business factors like pricing, availability and application support which also largely influence a vendors decision to go with a specific architecture...

    sepheronx, kvs, can you translate, pls?

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 26, 2015 8:52 pm

    Pretty much it is a RISC processor vs RISC processor. What made SPARC popular in the past was its efficiencies in access to its instructions that were available, the software designed around it, and its general use in mainframes. No different than others. ARM is like other forms of processors of RISC nature but is apparently better power management in comparrison to its overall performance. add that there is a huge popular base for them due to mobile market and the android os (as well as ios) are built around them. But in the end, a MIPS processor can easily do what arm one does, and vice versa with little differences.

    KVS can probably explain it better than I can.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kyo on Tue May 26, 2015 10:21 pm

    sepheronx wrote: But in the end, a MIPS processor can easily do what arm one does, and vice versa with little differences.

    Thx! That's all what I wanted to know.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  kvs on Tue May 26, 2015 11:42 pm

    I think the chose MIPS because it derived from the original processors used by SGI back in the day. So it is a serious
    CPU architecture. In particular it looks to me like it has better performance in floating point operations than the ARM
    architecture.

    The Elbrus CPU needs SIMD FP units. Then it will truly kick ass.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu May 28, 2015 12:02 pm

    http://www.rostec.ru/news/4516582

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 28, 2015 1:15 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:http://www.rostec.ru/news/4516582

    So that was more or less leak right there of Elbrus 16C. My bet is it will be an Elbrus 8C but with 16 cores instead. Which is fine. But they need to remember that majority (and I mean majority of software is very poorly coded to do beyond 2 cores these days in proper execution amongst all cores in efficiency. There will need to be a breakthrough in it.

    I also agree with KVS, as it was a very important step that Baikal T had SIMD 128 something that Elbrus needs. Since it appears that Rostec has their hands in both, I have no idea why they didnt opt for it in Elbrus yet. As well, one instruction that actuall gave a big boost to performance for PowerPC and its Nintendo CPU "Espresso" was OOO execution (out of order) which effectively allows the CPU to continue doing operations on other cores when one operation is taking too long and thus can dedicate work done on other cpus to the tasks that are not as complex. It really is a smart system. Something that Rostec should look into.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Neutrality on Thu May 28, 2015 2:30 pm

    So after reading that article it sounds like the next Baikal (Baikal-M) CPU will be based on ARM architecture.

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    Re: Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 28, 2015 5:21 pm

    I dont see the point really. If they produce mips now, they can accomplish what arm does with mips. Would also save them money.

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