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    Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

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    higurashihougi
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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:53 am

    May be it's not a very strange or up-tod-dated news, but this is a testament to the quality of Russian designs:

    http://soha.vn/quan-su/ak-47-bat-ngo-chay-hang-tai-my-nho-obama-20140902202942677.htm (in Vietnamese)

    English translation:


    AK-47 became best-selling in the United States thanks to... Obama

    2nd September 2014

    AK-47 supply in the US Market is nearly exhausted, according to The Washington Post.

    President Barrack Obama has enforced the embargo against the import of AK-47. Within 3 days after the embargo, most of the Russian rifles was sold out.

    According to "Russia 24" channel the U.S. customers prefer to buy the weapon created by Kalashnikov factory. In the U.S., AK is considered the best. The article claimed that there are people who buy 8-10 AK rifles although the price of each rifle is over 1000 USD.

    People joked that Barack Obama is the best weapon seller in this century.

    The embargo against AK-47 in fact testify the high demands of this weapon in the U.S.

    Robert Keller, director of the weapon seller K-Var Corp, told the CNN that there is no more AK-47 in the company's inventory. "We sell some products of the Kalashikov factory and these products are consumed very fast", he said. According to Mr. Keller, the sales increased right after the goverment's embargo.

    Mike E
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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:09 pm

    Haha, how ironic! 

    The reasons Americans buy a "Russian made AK" is because the foreign made models are all junk. Nevermind the reliability etc.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  im42 on Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:55 pm

    Nonsense Mike or weak attempt to troll around. There is whole world of quality ak's which is the testimony to it's design. The thing with ak's made in Federation is genuinity, plain and simple. Just as swiss watches out of Switzerland.
    Forgive me my english and have a nice day ! ;-)

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Regular on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:17 pm

    Like that guy said, when buying Swiss watch You want it to be made in Switzerland. Altho Bulgarian Arsenal makes quite decent AK's.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:37 pm

    Well, yes and no.

    The quality of AK's is really different when looking at some countries.

    For example there is common procedure during Soviet Union and till this date of selling AK's. Quite often for lot of costumers russian AK's that were gonna be sold to ME for example were not new produced but they just shot 100 AK's of Soviet Arsenal and packed the worst 10 and sold them.

    AK's build in US are also quite different, they buy russian made recievers which often use lower quality steel and the quality is further lowered by US tactiscrap nonsense.
    We had a romanian AK clone in bundeswehr for showing and teaching people of the most common weapon they would most probably face when going Afghanistan or Kosovo or whereever. It was a wierd thing it was actually russian (Soviet) but the soviet stamp was over graved with romanian marks, which was just ridiculous.

    Type-56 AKs of chinese norinco have a thicker reciever but not really same quality of barrel like what i've seen on some other AKs.

    The best type of AK-47 were and still are milled AK-47, sturdy and higher accuracy then the AKM's.

    But yes it is with weapons really common, you entrust the origin country far more then any other country. Same for sword replicas i would not buy a Katana made somewhere in europe, like i don't want a Japanese swords smith to make an european Zweihänder. But most of those AK's around are made either by China or Poland/Romania and Yugoslavian, far lower numbers are made by actualy Russia.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Mike E on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:04 pm

    im42 wrote:Nonsense Mike or weak attempt to troll around. There is whole world of quality ak's which is the testimony to it's design. The thing with ak's made in Federation is genuinity, plain and simple. Just as swiss watches out of Switzerland.
    Forgive me my english and have a nice day ! ;-)
    Huh? I basically just said what you said... People want it to be made where it was designed, in Russia. Not only that, but the popular Chinese models tend to be sub-par.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  im42 on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:31 pm

    Exusme me then Mike for wrong assumption, too much of mpnet I guess ;-).
    But as for milked vs stamped case. The thing isn't as simple as one might think. Stamped method came as logical step ie. stamped and properly bolted receiver might as well generate equal accuracy while giving costs saving method. In my humble opinion more important aspects are barrel trunion, barrel itself, gas block and the muzzle crown. AR-15 with DI system has a serious advantage here but that is worth own whole topic. What are your opinion guys ?.
    Cheers

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Mike E on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:34 pm

    That's OK! MP.net can really mess with the brain...

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Zivo on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:35 pm

    I live in the US, and I've handled a lot of AK's.

    AK's build in US are also quite different, they buy russian made recievers which often use lower quality steel and the quality is further lowered by US tactiscrap nonsense.

    I wont deny that, US built AK's are crap. Some smiths have excellent modifications, but you pay a premium for them.

    Regarding Russian AK's: they have the best finish. The factories must have better quality control compared to their rivals. The rifles are always strait and tight, nothing rattles. The Bulgarian ones are decent, but they're not as "nice" or "pretty" as the Russian rifles, and sometimes you get them with crooked sights. AK's with a milled receivers or the thicker RPK receivers are excellent.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:11 am

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that the best AK-47s are made in Czechoslovakia ?

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  im42 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:18 am

    Maybe apart some prototype phase Czechs made few test runs but as far production runs ... not a single one was made from what i know. You must confuse ak's with vz. 58.

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    AK-47 became best-selling in the United States thanks to... Obama

    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:27 am

    Nah, as someone who goes shooting (Mind you I'm in CA, so barely any AKs here.) most people say the Federation-built models are the best.  russia russia

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    Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  cracker on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:27 pm

    Hi

    I want to compare the russian army weapons and rest of the world. In my opinion, russia has the best weapons, simply. USA is close second, and 1st in specific domains (sniper rifles). German army probably has great weapons too, chinese army is not bad.

    I only want to talk about current military/police weapons in service.

    In all honesty, is there any better group of weapons for infantry than those used by russia? I can't think of better alternatives

    AK-74M: this basic rifleman's rifle is simply foolproof, modulable enough, and perfectly accurate and powerful. Unmatched reliability and durability. AK-74M can be made into sexy FS rifles with more and more aftermarket parts, more and more are made in russia. Basically all spetsnaz of MVD or FSB currently use modded AK-74M rifles, and light mods are used more and more in army "elite" corps, like recon troops of army, or VDV. Probably the best service rifle in use worldwide, and fits perfectly russian army.

    PKM/PKP: this light GPMG is always compared to the M240 FN MAG and more rarely the MG3. Everyone has his opinion, but all recognize it's at a place between 1st and 3rd... To me, it's 1st, lightweight, foolproof and more reliable than others (others are reliable like rocks too, but...), the cartridge is kick ass, and simply you can't make any better MG than what kalashnikov did on this one, only you can modernize and improve it. PKP might be the best LMG worldwide, more even than current SF weapons like MK48.

    SVD/SVDS: this multipurpose rifle is basically the most common and used sniper rifle of russian army. in the last 20 years, many specialised elite units aquired different systems for their needs, sometimes western rifles, mostly bolt actions. Still, the SVD remains a top squad support weapon, and a fine specialised sniper rifle. PSO-1 scope is reputed to be excellent, but the x4 power limits somehow the potential of the SVD.

    RPG-7: Often laughed in western medias recently due to guerilla wars and problems with effectiveness, the RPG-7 in russian army are not dirty clones you can find in middle east, and more especially the russian dotation rockets are top notch. Remains the best pocket artillery available to a group of infantry to me, good weight, large variety of ammo, and quite accurate. The anti tank capability is still correct with modern rockets : 550mm for standard dotation PG-7VL and 750mm for specialised tandem PG-7VR.


    Add to this weapons in russian army that have no equivalent worldwide:

    9x39 compact weapons series, from AS val to VSK-94, supressed or not, these weapons are widely in service in all branches of russian army, and fill a niche that no other weapon worldwide could fill so well.

    KORD heavy machinegun, seems like russia developped the best HMG ever, and is puting it in service in great numbers. Hell, even the older NSV is a great weapon, but much less accurate and durable than KORD. Rest of the world with M2HB and DSHKM look retarded of 1 century. I could even mention the 14.5mm KPV, but it's almost always a vehicle weapon, so.. not really interesting for this topic

    AN-94 and AEK-971, these weapons, both of which are in limited service (more the AN) are unique assault rifles with extreme potential and improvement over classic rifles, the latter will certainly replace the AK-74M in massive quantity in 10-15 years.

    Russian SMGs are great weapons too, russian pistols are great, PYA and GSH-18 are fantastic service pistols, APS is unique, makarov is still good, PSS silent pistol is a great weapon unique in its genre. Not to mention SPS Sr-1 high power 9mm pistol.

    The russian underbarel grenade lauchers: GP-25/30/30M/34, caseless 40mm devices, compact... Just uncredible. This GL is simply the best, and the grenades for it (old VOG 25 or modern current issue (can't remember the names)) packs always more explosive than western 40x43mm grenades. in russian army, you can have up to 1 GP-25 for every 2 men... Simply unrivalled.



    What has the world better to offter? M4 carbines? FAMAS? lol... What would you take for undercover mission, SR-3M special rifle in 9x39mm or M4 with supressor and paltry 5.56 subsonic rounds?

    What pistols could rival PYA or GSH-18? Glocks? Already proven to be inferior.

    What semi auto rifle could rival the SVD? There might be more chances here, M14 scopped/ M21, M110 are nice rifles

    What SMG can rival the AEK-918, SR-2, PP-2000, PP-9 Kedr, PP-19 vytyaz/bizon in their respective niche?

    Would you take any other service rifle over AK-74M?


    In my opinion, the russian infantry platoon offers the best firepower you can find, maybe rivaled only by US army.

    For special purpose weapons, russia n°1.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  runaway on Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:15 pm

    I have used both AKM and H&K36, and the G36 is a very very nice weapon, forced to chose i would go for a new G36 then a 40 year old AK-74.
    As for RPG, am a gunner on Carl Gustav, 84mm recoiles. Its in service in 40 countries and a truckload of different ammo is availeble. Still, i would go for a new RPG if a could, a RPG-29.
    Heavy MG, often on vehicles, i dont think the M2HB is much inferior to the Kord.
    Ordinary MG´s the PKM is as good as KSP-58.
    Pistols, little differens.
    Special weapons, iam not to good to judge on them.

    Overall i think russian weapons have an edge the western dont have, but its time the AK-12 come out with better optics, aimpoint style, better ergonomics and better accuracy on 200-400m.

    Western weapons are often made for the firing range, the russian ones are made for war.


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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

    M2HB is rather old and if you want to reset the head space and timing every time you replace a barrel you are welcome to do so.

    I have seen video of both being fired and Kord appears to be much more accurate... even from a bipod!

    Don't forget automatic grenade launchers... the AGS-30 is half the weight of the AGS-17... the AGS-17 is 18kgs plus 12 kgs for the tripod. The AGS-30 is 16kgs including tripod.

    With the new more aerodynamic ammo it can reach 2.2km in range and as the US has finally worked out such grenades rely on the sides for fragmentation so even a smaller calibre grenade like the 30mm Soviet grenade can have a better fragmentation pattern than a western grenade of larger calibre (40mm).

    Just as interesting, the under barrel 40mm grenades of the Russian Army, have since the late 1970s had an air burst grenade. the US has spent a small fortune on a 25mm grenade launcher and grenade where the launcher has a ballistic computer and laser range finder and each grenade has a very precise and very expensive timing mechanism so the main weapon finds the target lases the range, calculates the time to target and deducts a fraction of a second so the round will explode above the target... it may never get into service and the precision of the timers in the grenades makes them very expensive, but the air burst capability makes them 5-10 times more effective than impact grenades that waste most of their fragments straight into the ground.

    the 40mm VOG-25P has a small charge in its nose that blasts the grenade back up into the air when it hits the ground and starts a very short fuse that detonates the main charge in the grenade a fraction of a second later. The main charge generally goes off at 1.5-2 metres above the ground.

    No precision timing, very cheap grenades, widely in service now...

    BTW some of the new Russian Sniper Rifles are every bit as accurate as western rifles.


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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:M2HB is rather old and if you want to reset the head space and timing every time you replace a barrel you are welcome to do so.

    I have seen video of both being fired and Kord appears to be much more accurate... even from a bipod!

    Don't forget automatic grenade launchers... the AGS-30 is half the weight of the AGS-17... the AGS-17 is 18kgs plus 12 kgs for the tripod. The AGS-30 is 16kgs including tripod.

    With the new more aerodynamic ammo it can reach 2.2km in range and as the US has finally worked out such grenades rely on the sides for fragmentation so even a smaller calibre grenade like the 30mm Soviet grenade can have a better fragmentation pattern than a western grenade of larger calibre (40mm).

    Just as interesting, the under barrel 40mm grenades of the Russian Army, have since the late 1970s had an air burst grenade. the US has spent a small fortune on a 25mm grenade launcher and grenade where the launcher has a ballistic computer and laser range finder and each grenade has a very precise and very expensive timing mechanism so the main weapon finds the target lases the range, calculates the time to target and deducts a fraction of a second so the round will explode above the target... it may never get into service and the precision of the timers in the grenades makes them very expensive, but the air burst capability makes them 5-10 times more effective than impact grenades that waste most of their fragments straight into the ground.

    the 40mm VOG-25P has a small charge in its nose that blasts the grenade back up into the air when it hits the ground and starts a very short fuse that detonates the main charge in the grenade a fraction of a second later. The main charge generally goes off at 1.5-2 metres above the ground.

    No precision timing, very cheap grenades, widely in service now..
    .

    BTW some of the new Russian Sniper Rifles are every bit as accurate as western rifles.

    ...But, but according to Hollywood, Russians are just stupid, incompetent barbarians! It's interesting that the Russians developed bouncing betty/air-burst grenades and they had them for nearly 40 years while US failed to develop a white-elephant air-burst grenade launcher (but to be fair the South Koreans, and Chinese failed to put their similar systems in to active service), it's just like how the Russian tanks had gun launched missiles, and autoloaders for roughly 50 years and US tanks still don't have neither of them, or that Apache helicopter CAS aircraft still to this day do not have bullet proof glass designed to defeat small arms fire (let alone autocannon fire).

    BTW GarryB, is their any news or evidence of the next generation of Russian rifle grenade launchers, and or new ammunition?

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Asf on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:26 pm

    it's just like how the Russian tanks had gun launched missiles

    as well as air-burst HE-FRAG rounds

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  NationalRus on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:37 pm

    best in the world is a naive childish term, all depends on diffrent sectors and characteristics you are looking for. just shortly to say if i would need to arm a field army i would probably or better to say most likely go for modern AK versions or arms based on AK operating system. if i would need to equip a urban force, like Police, SWAT, special units for urban combat i would most likely go with some western or israeli models

    btw. the reliability issue is over used, modern even M16/M4 veriants and all arms based on ther operating system hold up very well in harsh enviroment, the famous saying that a littel of dirt and ther are out of order is total BS, only vietnam era M16's and the infamous british L85A1 can service this myth

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Asf on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:43 pm

    i dont think the M2HB is much inferior to the Kord

    Kord is much lighter and more accurate plus it is able to fire even from bipod (accuracy of fire with a bipod is similar to M2HB/NSV)


    forced to chose i would go for a new G36 then a 40 year old AK-74.

    Why not a new one? Smile


     Still, i would go for a new RPG if a could, a RPG-29.

    Heavier and less available granade types (no HE-Frag), overkill in many situations


     the PKM is as good as KSP-58

    Lighter

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:38 pm

    NationalRus wrote:best in the world is a naive childish term, all depends on diffrent sectors and characteristics you are looking for. just shortly to say if i would need to arm a field army i would probably or better to say most likely go for modern AK versions or arms based on AK operating system. if i would need to equip a urban force, like Police, SWAT, special units for urban combat i would most likely go with some western or israeli models

    btw. the reliability issue is over used, modern even M16/M4 veriants and all arms based on ther operating system hold up very well in harsh enviroment, the famous saying that a littel of dirt and ther are out of order is total BS, only vietnam era M16's and the infamous british L85A1 can service this myth
    Sort of... Their is no "best of the world", but there is a best of "this or that". IMHO, Russian firearms tend to be more reliable than their Western counterparts, that is their "this or that".

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:58 am

    BTW GarryB, is their any news or evidence of the next generation of Russian rifle grenade launchers, and or new ammunition?

    The AK12 is able to fire NATO standard rifle grenades from its muzzle, and there are a few that have a shoot through design so special blank rounds are not needed that look rather interesting.

    Of course there are a few new rifle grenade launchers designed for new rifles like the ADS, but they appear to use standard 40mm grenades.

    their 40mm grenades don't have shell cases and are like small mortar bombs... muzzle loaded and leave no shell case to be removed in the weapon after firing.

    There is a new automatic grenade launcher... well actually two I have seen... one is called Balkan and seems to be a very compact weapon (would be good coaxial weapon IMHO). It is 40mm calibre and uses rather large grenades modelled on the type of the underbarrel rounds... ie no shell case.

    There is also a 57mm grenade launcher I know less about that also looks interesting.



    as well as air-burst HE-FRAG rounds

    Good old ANIET fusing system. Much larger shells means more room for digital timing systems that are rather cheaper than a unit small enough to fit in a 25mm grenade...


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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  Asf on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:26 pm

     Much larger shells means more room for digital timing systems that are rather cheaper than a unit small enough to fit in a 25mm grenade...

    And one shell can do the job of a whole 25 mm granade burst  Smile

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:23 am

    Indeed the ANIET system is an electronic fusing system, so if you fit the ANIET fuses to standard 125mm HE rounds the time is set as the round is loaded based on the ballistics computers calculation of time of flight.

    The timers are not super accurate, but are generally good enough for most jobs.

    There is a specialised HE frag round that is designed to blow fragments forward and sideways... the standard HE shell as a nose mounted fuse and long smooth sides so when ANIET sets off the charge most of the fragments go sideways and straight up and straight down as the shell is horizontal in flight and most of the fragments are in the side walls of the round.

    The new ANIET HE FRAG shell is designed with lots of fragments in the nose designed to be blown forward like a super shotgun blast, so you can set the fuse to set off the round 50m before impacting a target like a group of soldiers in the open and it will blast them with several kilos of fragments like a flying claymore mine.... would also be good for use against helos.


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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  cracker on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:41 am

    runaway wrote:I have used both AKM and H&K36, and the G36 is a very very nice weapon, forced to chose i would go for a new G36 then a 40 year old AK-74.
    As for RPG, am a gunner on Carl Gustav, 84mm recoiles. Its in service in 40 countries and a truckload of different ammo is availeble. Still, i would go for a new RPG if a could, a RPG-29.
    Heavy MG, often on vehicles, i dont think the M2HB is much inferior to the Kord.
    Ordinary MG´s the PKM is as good as KSP-58.
    Pistols, little differens.
    Special weapons, iam not to good to judge on them.

    Overall i think russian weapons have an edge the western dont have, but its time the AK-12 come out with better optics, aimpoint style, better ergonomics and better accuracy on 200-400m.

    Western weapons are often made for the firing range, the russian ones are made for war.


    So you haven't used an AK-74M, which is the weapon I specified, not the AKM, a rifle in 7.62x39 introduced in 1959, decomissioned for general use in the mid 1980s, when USA used M16A1 and germany G3. AK-74M is extremely controlable (much more than any 5.56 rifle), not so heavy, and modulable enough. G36 offers strictly nothing over it, whereas M4 does, it's lighter, and easily modded. In the second place I definitely put US M4 or better, Hk416, certainly not any other assault rifle, G36 would still be behind AK5 (FNC) in my book. AK-74M offers a level of ruggedness unachieved in any other assault rifle. Do you see many soldiers worldwide doing push ups on the magazine of their rifle on a regular basis? Do you see them use the rifle as a ladder or platform with 80+ kg boys in gear walking on it on daily training, any rifle can survive a 4 story building fall on concrete even on the magazine? Hell no, but AK-74M does this, plus the regular job of a rifle. Have you ever seen the environement the AK-74M meets in harsh training courses of internal spetsnaz troops, and still shooting at the end?

    Sure, the G36 with built in sight will be a better marksman rifle for the soldier vs a bare AK-74M, but RUS troops in operation use a wide range of optics of the AK-74M, from 1P29 to passive night sights, a wide variety of red dots and reflex sights. AK-74M takes 45rds magazines, G36 is issued only with 30 rounds ones. G36<AK-74M 99% of the time. What's best about it before all, is the emphasis on simplicity and durability, nothing beats an AK at this, nothing.


    About RPG, the RPG-29 makes no sense whatsoever, it's a heavy recoilless AT rifle made "light" enough for shoulder use. RPG-7 uses the exact same warhead, PG-7VR, of course with less effective range. RPG-7 is lighter and much more compact than carl gustav, and the variety of grenades is as good or better. Accuracy for non expert shooter is better with CG though, but it's hell loud, ear damaging, and heavy weapon. Russian army uses RPG-7 as the main system (RPG-7V2 and RPG-7D3 with PGO-7), but it's 1 per section or platoon, the small disposable launchers are issued to almost all men, more like 3/4 of men in a platoon. It's usually RPG-26 and RSHG-2, 72mm ~3kg tubes. Bigger weapons like 105mm RSHG-1 and RPG-27, or derivatives like MRO, and other stuff, can be issued in specific circumstances. RPG-29 and 28 are dedicated AT systems, very rare, probably could be seen a lot in a real war, seldom used in training.

    M2 is not even comparable to KORD. Already with NSV, russians achieved a fantastic HMG outclassing the M2 in "bare use", but while vehicule mounted, NSV / KORD / M2 makes no difference almost. M2 is a bitch to maintain and use compared to KORD, the latter is also much lighter, much more reliable and much more accurate, not even talking about rate of fire.

    PKM > MAG58 or M240, mostly because it's much lighter, quite less long and bulky, and even more reliable. PKP pushes the PKM in yet another level, emphasis on LMG role with increased fire time ability. PKP accepts wide variety of sights (so does PKMN), so the "picatiny rail" is not an argument anymore. RPK-74M are seldom used, but it's a fine weapon, with no real equivalent, except the UK LSW86. Russians don't feel the need for light caliber belt fed like the minimi, they choose to give as much PKP or PKM as possible instead, and they have many. Machine gun wise, we can safely say that russia is quite confortable and will remain so. France for example is not.

    Pistols, as I mentionned, russia has many of them, top notch. The good old PM (makarov) is not the only thing they have, far from that. new russian guns outperform existing leaders of the market by a small to large margin (small vs glock, large vs beretta for example), plus all new russian guns fire extremely powerful P+ ammo with AP core. PYA, GSH-18 and SR-1 are those pistols.

    AK-12 is mostly irrelevant and useless for basic duty, but it will be a first choice for all spetsnaz units who currently operate heavily modded AK-74M. I still prefer AEK-971 for this task. AN-94 is in service, and was deployed in crimea when the russian special forces spreaded politeness. (you can find a video and screenshots, just type in russian AN-94 in crimea)

    The special purpose calibers and weapons of russian army are superb, their sniper rifles are great.

    higurashihougi
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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:22 am

    Would like to present another writing of Huy Phúc in the blogs and forum.

    The main characteristic of this writing is that it is informative, but have a very negative opinion about U.S. weapons.

    Feel free to criticize if you think Huy Phúc was wrong. Any constructive comments are beneficial.

    Cheers.

    Honestly, I do not have a solid understanding about gun anatomy and I have a poor English... so prepare.

    huy phúc wrote:
    The U.S. used M16 just because it is the offspring of Colt, the main rifle manufacturer of that country. Not else.

    Colt buy the design of AR-15 when it was very immature, and put it in the king's throne when it was born prematurely. That's why in three decades, EU never touched the U.S. M16. They would rather use heavy rifle catridge for an assault rifle than use M16. Clearly, M16 is a premature born child, it can be the king in U.S. but cannot have any place in Europe.

    Close allies of U.S. such as Canada, Australia, UK, Japan all used FN FAL design as their main assault gun, in the time when Russia still used 7.62mm M43 bullet.

    (...)

    Amongst the assault rifles which have large production rate, no one has such a humiliating and disgraceful history like M16.

    EU and other U.S. allies such as Japan, Canada, Australia... despised the M16A1. They would rather had no modern assault rifle for 3 deacades than touching the M16A1. Except the small, dependent, weak countries, only UK and Japan used the U.S. barrel, but they took the feeding machine from AR-18. Later EU used the SS109, but they never used feeding machine of M16. Countries with advanced technology like Germany designed their own weapon, like G11. The UK attempted several times to create its own catridge, for example cooperation with FN to format the 7x40mm for SM2, or 4.ab xmm like G11, but uncessful due to the dependence on U.S. supply.

    (...)

    Maximum effective range is stupid. Effective rane is the average results of the statistics taken from lots lots of soldiers. Average means no maximum.

    The so-called "maximum" effective range is achieved when the gun is tested when it is putted in a support system. At that condition, the maximum "effective" range is only 450 metres for rifles. The maximum range that soldier can aim using the iron sight is 300 metres. Therefore, people usually consider that effective range of rifle is 300 metres. Below that is the range of pistol.

    Effective range of M16 is damn low. Therefore the propaganda machine has to use the concept of "maximum effective range" to fool the buyers.

    (...)

    M16 is more accurate than AK-47... is just a myth.

    M16's bullet has a fixed rotation axis. This is the outdated technology of 19th century. Meanwhile AK's bullet is a spitzer, more aerodynamic, and more accurate. AK-74 perform a 3-round burst test all hit the target at 250m, in a snowy day.

    Can M16 perform the firing test of AK which have a 10cm diameter target at 100 metre ? F*ck no.

    (...)

    At the range of 100m, AK-107/08 and AN-94 can perform a full burst of 30 rounds effectively, all 30 bullets hit the target of 20x20cm. M16 cannot do that. For AK-47, a lot of bullet also hit the no.4 target in the test. Skewing angle is just 0.2 degree.

    (...)

    The relability of M16 is lower. The weakest point of M16 is its gas-operated reloader. The vessel for gas in M16 is damn small (1mm diameter) and can be easily choked by dust. Meanwhile, gas vessel in AK-47 has a big diameter (2/3 of M16 barrel diameter), it cannot be choked.

    AK also use the effect of "turning back of air's kinetic energy", the air flow has to turn back 300 degree when moving with 600m/s, therefore when the bullet escape the barrel, the air has just escape through air hole.(I don't really understand, can anybody explain this ?)

    (...)

    In the past, the USSR had a legendary gun named SVT. The idea was born in 1917, but received no support, finally in 192x people began to test it. It was accepted in 1938.

    SVT's gas-operated reloading was very preeminent. It was improved from the DP and it is lightweight. The characteristc of this gas-operated is that the "return shaft" (Vietnamese: cần đẩy về, I don't really know well what it is) has spring separated from the receiver, the cylinder is attached onto the return shaft (LWRC and AR-18 has a propaganda about "cup-shaped piston" which is bullshit).

    German's G43 copied the SVT gas-operated feeding, and that is the reason why G43 was accepted in the war. Countries like Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland also use similar breech to Russia. The basic design is the same, but the small details is different because Russia created it by milling and stamping machine, while Western Europe casted the breech. The distinctive characteristic of the breech is that the two pronged parts at the sides. And the FN FAL, standard assault rifle of EU in the old days of AK 7.62mm also used similar SVT gas-operated feeded, but it has different piston.

    (original Vietnamese used "khóa nòng", and I translated into "breech". Hope I used the right term.)

    Sweden, due to its neutral stance, decided to create its own gun and it copied the SVT to created  AG-42. But the AG-42 did not use SVT's gas-operated ones. AG's piston was positioned in the reverse order compared to FSA MAS, piston was positioned ontop of the below part of the receiver, and in M16 people called it "carrier key", a f*cking queer name.

    The gas feeder of AG-42 was used in AR-15. But the AR designer at that time were unexperienced. They did not know that the AG-42's feeder is no good. In fact, people had already discovered many shortcomings of AG's gas operated system: uneven heat cause the bending of the barrel, heavy amount of dust is generated inside the feeder... But it was in the time of war and for the sake of selling the propaganda machine went on to cover the AG's weakness. AR-15's design was poisoned by the propaganda, and since AR-15 fires in burst of very high rate, the problem of dust and choking quickly rose in the manner of geometric progression.

    And when Colt purchased AR-15 from Armalite, Colt passed the poisonous propaganda into American tax payers. The lobbyist bla bla bla about anything of AR-15 was all good, all perfect, etc. Colt also recruited Eugene Stoner from Armalite in order to bolster the propaganda effect. Stoner though that in Colt he would have a chance of promotion and have a chane of further improve the AR-15, but later Stone realized that he was fooled, for Colt's AR-15 he was merely a figurehead for advertisement. Frustated, Stone switched to Cadillac Gate and designed Stoner 63.

    When Stone designed the Stoner 63, the remaining team of Armalite designed the AR-18. Both AR-18 and Stoner 63 had a improved and much better feeding mechanism. Especially, the AR-18 re-introduced the feeding mechanism of SVT.

    Today, after the harsh truth about M16 in Iraq, Afganistan,... the gun designers massively revolt against the bullshit in M16. One of the design amongst this is the LWRC, actually this is a modernization of AR-18.

    Meanwhile, M16 is still a permature born child, a freaking fetus of Colt. It can only trembles with fear in front of SVT feeding mechanism.

    For reference, it is said that, when the U.S. officer tried to use Vietcong's AK-47, they said "this is the true weapon !". Today, when AK-47 and M16 are used in the same army against the Taliban and Iraqi terrorists, people have the chance to better compare them. The U.S. tried hard to replace AK-47 the Iraqi and Afghan allies by M16. But failed. Even the U.S. themshelves also prefer to use the AKs. The U.S. had to bought AKs from their allies in Eastern Europe and former USSR. But these countries started to use NATO bullet and reduced the production of AKs. And finally, what should come has finally come: it is said that Washington planned to purchase 70.000 AKs from Russia and a large number of AKs have been delivered.

    Look at the webpage of XM8, LWRC, FN... you can see many things about the freaking, premature born, degenerated feeding machine of M16.

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    Re: Russian firearms comparison with rest of the world

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