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    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:01 am

    Shame they didn't have a vertical launch version of TOR to replace OSA.

    Such an arrangement would be mechanically much simpler as the OSA has a twin arm launcher that retracts and is reloaded from internal magazines of extra missiles. All that space and complication could be used for vertical launch bins for the new model TORs so they could have a lot more missiles that are all ready to launch... It would probably be much lighter and take up rather less space... perhaps freeing up the area below deck as it would not need to be as large as the old OSA system...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:27 am

    GarryB wrote:Shame they didn't have a vertical launch version of TOR to replace OSA.

    Such an arrangement would be mechanically much simpler as the OSA has a twin arm launcher that retracts and is reloaded from internal magazines of extra missiles. All that space and complication could be used for vertical launch bins for the new model TORs so they could have a lot more missiles that are all ready to launch... It would probably be much lighter and take up rather less space... perhaps freeing up the area below deck as it would not need to be as large as the old OSA system...

    Isn't the Kinzhal (SA-N-9) a nalised Tor? It is fitted to rotary VLS bins, 8x ready to fire.  Currently fitted to Kirovs & Kuznetsov & Udaloys IIRC.

    I suspect that its not an option for small vessels due to the radar requirments?
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    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:59 am

    It is but they need a modernised one with a compact VLS & smaller firecontrol radar so it can fit as an Osa replacement. (which would be handy on a bunch of other legacy ships)

    They're supposed to be working on this one for a while
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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:28 pm

    Isn't the Kinzhal (SA-N-9) a nalised Tor? It is fitted to rotary VLS bins, 8x ready to fire. Currently fitted to Kirovs & Kuznetsov & Udaloys IIRC.

    Yes, they are but the rotary launcher would be as cumbersome and take up too much space like the twin arm OSA launcher... which is ironic because the land based TOR is a fixed vertical launch system along the lines of what they need... though in the newer model with smaller missiles that are longer ranged and more accurate and packed more efficiently so they can have double the number of ready to fire missiles.

    A recent post mentioned they are in the process of upgrading the naval TOR, which I hope means upgrading it the way I am suggesting with no moving parts and smaller faster longer ranged more accurate newer missiles in some sort of fixed launcher.


    I suspect that its not an option for small vessels due to the radar requirments?

    Radar requirements are met by the TOR vehicles so I really don't see why they couldn't mount one of these systems on a ship... the search radar of the ship should be better than the search radar of the TOR vehicles, while the tracking radar could be the same...

    They're supposed to be working on this one for a while

    Yes, seems to be based on the land based system presumably with 16 missiles on the front turret with the tracking radar (I would expect search functions would be carried out by the main ship radar installations as they would have better 360 degree coverage), so the two other launchers behind the front system are I guess two more 16 missile launchers for a total of 3 x 16 missiles, for 48 ready to fire missiles... which is quite reasonable for a ship that size...

    Though I do wonder why they don't just have a bigger block of four of these 16 tube launchers all sitting together in one block so that there were 5 lots of 16 missiles for a total of 80 ready to fire missiles would be very good.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:36 pm

    Stocks of Moskits, Granits and other Soviet era missiles are slowly being depleted and no new ones are being made

    Time to move on

    Indeed, the Moskit and Granit and Vulkan were formidible missiles but ultimately what they achieved was supersonic flight at about mach 2 out to 120km for Moskit, and about 400km for Granit and Vulkan... but to do that the Moskit is a 4.5 ton missile and Granit is over 7 tons and Vulkan is no lightweight either.

    The Onyx which basically replaced all three, has a flight speed of up to mach 2.5 and a flight range of between 500 and 600km, but it is much smaller and lighter so it can be carried in much greater numbers on a range of much smaller vessels and aircraft.

    The Zircon is even better with more than double the range and an increase of speed of 4 times and it probably is a similar weight of 2-3 tons... the improved performance comes from much more efficient propulsion.

    There is no advantage to hanging on to the older missile designs as good as they were the new ones are better and are in production and are standardised across the fleet.
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    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:08 am

    I do wonder why they don't just have a bigger block of four of these 16 tube launchers all sitting together in one bloc
    Yes & split the firecontrol radar off onto a separate radar-only mount.
    48 missiles & a fairly compact firecontrol mount would be pretty solid.

    I suspect that its not an option for small vessels due to the radar requirments?
    I believe means the Kinzhal firecontrol radar which is pretty chonky.
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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:38 am

    Actually they had so many problems getting it working right, the first vessels to carry it including the Udaloy destroyer class were operational for years before the radar to use the system was even fitted.

    TOR is a very capable system however and was worth the wait...
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    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:07 pm

    Some minor naval ships in Russian Navy day parade



    Project 21980 "Grachonok-class" anti-saboteur ship
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    Project 11770 "Serna class" landing craft
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    Project 03160 "Raptor"
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    Project 1241 Tarantul class missile ship
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    Project 1234 Nanuchka class missile ship
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    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:06 am

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    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:53 pm

    Yes its quite weird that they took it out at least a couple of times post-refit with the old gun before switching it to the new model scratch
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    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:56 pm

    It´s weird that it got a new gun. Very Happy
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    Post  calripson on Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:15 pm

    Does it carry 20 Gecko SAMS? If so, why wouldn't they retrofit it with something more modern??
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    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:26 pm

    calripson wrote:Does it carry 20 Gecko SAMS? If so, why wouldn't they retrofit it with something more modern??

    Yes. To keep price low. Its anti air capabilities suck. No surveillance radar, twin launcher and an old soviet system that is outdated against modern low flying missiles.


    What they could have done was to put Positiv radar with 150km range that they offer for export on molniya class and tigr class and VLS for tor (32 missiles). That would make the ship able to fight even US cruiser and destroyers 1 vs 1 as they mostly carry 8 anti ship missiles and 2 helicopters.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-electronic-systems/pozitiv-me/


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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:34 pm

    calripson wrote:Does it carry 20 Gecko SAMS? If so, why wouldn't they retrofit it with something more modern??

    No reason to

    This ship will not be operating outside air cover

    This upgrade was done because it was quick, cheap and simple

    Old missiles were discontinued so they decided to get some extra mileage from these ships by installing cheap modern alternative

    Replacing AA suite would not be quick, cheap or simple
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:34 am

    Keeping old obsolete weapons in service wont end up being very cheap either... I guess in 5 years time they could replace the old avionics suite and replace it with a modern light electronics setup that can be standardised across their new and upgraded ships... as I keep mentioning the mechanical OSA launcher takes up space and is cumbersome... think of it in terms of the difference between an auto loader for a tank gun that needs to get rounds from an automated ammo storage system and select rounds one at a time and pass it out to the launcher where it can place two missiles at a time but then they need to be deployed first loaded and then reloaded from an automated system below deck.

    In comparison the new models of naval TOR could simply be an array of fixed vertical launch tubes with each missile ready to fire, connected to the system so all rounds can be tested and checked to make sure their batteries and systems are normal... with OSA you would need some space around the ammo storage area so crew could get in and plug in to the missiles manually for a check half way through the voyage or patrol...

    The vertical launch TOR system wont need moving or handling of the missiles, so no chance of jamming or other problems. A hatch might get stuck which means one missile might not be able to be launched until the problem is sorted, with OSA a jam means the whole system wont work.

    In terms of performance the TOR missiles have much better range and speed and accuracy and are just as cheap as they are command guided missiles with no expensive radar or IR seeker.

    Having the same missiles as other new vessels would also be useful too in terms of ammo storage at bases.
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    Post  Makarov420 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:46 pm

    https://tass.com/defense/1073340

    here is a photo of the smerch with 16 Uran already installed
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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:47 am

    Postponement of construction of rescue ships of project 21300

    According to the web resource Mil.Press FLOT, in Dmitry Zhavoronkov’s article “Rescuers of the Northern Fleet will not build submarines, and 25 years after the Kursk’s death, the serial construction of project-rescue ships of Project 21300 submarines (code“ Dolphin ”) is delayed for several years - despite the fact that it is included in the state armaments program, this is due to open research and development work to create the “most domestic” deep-water diving complex GVK-300 for “Dolphins.” Three sources told Mil.Press FLOT about this: two branches x and Navy. Given the timing of construction and development of HVA lifeguard, North and other fleets will wait serial "Dolphins" no earlier than 2025.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3736613.html
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    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:46 am

    Akademik Aleksandrov started state tests
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    I had assumed they were already doing those but I guess that was just builder trials dunno
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    Post  ult on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:03 pm

    Smerch.

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    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:23 am

    Small marine tanker Mikhail Barskov, project 03182 launched


    According to the press service of the Administration of the Primorsky Territory, on August 27, 2019 at Vostochnaya Verf JSC in Vladivostok, the launch ceremony of the head of the small sea tanker Mikhail Barskov (serial number 9001) of project 03182 (code number), which is being built at the enterprise for the Russian Navy, was held "Platform-Arctic"). This is the largest ship built in history at the Eastern Shipyard.

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    Launching at Vostochnaya Verf JSC, the head of the small marine tanker Mikhail Barskov (serial number 9001) of project 03182, which is being built at the facility for the Russian Navy for the Russian Navy; Vladivostok, 08.28.2019 (c) Igor Novikov / Administration of Primorsky Krai

    The ship is being built under the contract for the construction of two small marine tankers of project 03182 for the Pacific Fleet, signed by the Eastern Shipyard with the Russian Ministry of Defense on September 1, 2014. The lead ship under this contract and in the series of this project as a whole, the small marine tanker Mikhail Barskov (serial number 9001) was officially laid down at the Vostochny Shipyard on October 27, 2015, although the actual construction of the Mikhail Barskov tanker was started by the company at the beginning 2015 year. The contract deadline for the lead ship was November 2017, and its construction is being carried out with a significant delay.

    The tanker was named in honor of Vice Admiral M.K. Barskov (1945 - 2013), who from 1994 to 1998 was the head of the General Directorate of Shipbuilding, and from 1998 to 2003, the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy for armament, shipbuilding and operation.

    The second tanker of project 03182 Boris Averkin (serial number 9002) under this contract was officially laid down at the Eastern Shipyard on February 6, 2018. The contractual deadline for its completion is the end of 2019, although it is obvious that this deadline will not be met.

    The Russian Ministry of Defense also entered into contracts with other shipbuilding enterprises for the construction of four more tankers of project 03182. It was reported that in 2015 two tankers were ordered by A. Gorky Zelenodolsk Plant JSC (part of the group of companies Ak Holding Company Bars “) in Zelenodolsk, however, there is no data on their construction.

    The contract for the construction of two more small marine tankers of project 03182 for the Black Sea Fleet (port of registry - Sevastopol), with delivery in 2019 and 2020, was received in 2016 by Volga Shipbuilding Plant JSC in Nizhny Novgorod, where the first tanker was Vice Admiral Paromov "(serial number 850) was laid down on September 1, 2016 and launched on December 20, 2018. The second Nizhny Novgorod tanker Vasily Nikitin (serial number 851) was laid down on March 10, 2017.

    The small marine tanker of project 03182 was developed by Zelenodolsk Design and Design Bureau JSC as a “multipurpose platform of a reinforced ice class vessel to provide the concept of Arctic vessels for transporting liquid and dry cargo, discharge cargo and people with the possibility of receiving helicopter equipment (including unmanned aircraft) and rescue operations. " In addition to receiving, storing, transporting and transferring liquid cargoes, the tanker of project 03182 is also intended for supplying ships and vessels with cargo in barrel containers, crates, pallets, containers, etc .; collection of bilge, sewage, dry garbage and food waste; patrols, emergency rescue duty in the areas of navigation, fishing, offshore oil and gas fields; Search and relief for ships in distress; technical support in areas hazardous to navigation; services for transport operations in ports; removal from shallows and reefs of damaged vessels; pumping water from flooded compartments and towing emergency vessels and objects to a place of refuge, including in ice; perform the functions of a fire vessel.

    The tanker of project 03182 of the Arc4 ice class should have a total displacement of 3,500 tons, a deadweight of 1,560 dwt, a length of 75 m, a width of 15.4 m, a draft in full load of 5 m and be equipped with an electric power plant with propeller columns. The crew of 24 people with the possibility of accommodating another eight people. The ship will be equipped with a runway for a Ka-27 class helicopter.

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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3752746.html
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:25 pm

    https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BA23/

    August 30, 2019

    The construction of a series of new auxiliary vessels for the Russian Navy, developed at the Vympel Design Bureau as part of the Platform-DTO development work, will begin to be built starting from universal transport. About this Mil.Press FlotProm told two knowledgeable industry sources.



    The project assigned number 23482, added one of the interlocutors of the publication. 



    Consultations are already underway on the choice of a shipyard builder, another source noted. "Ships of such a displacement - up to 18 thousand tons - can build not many factories," he added. 

    According toreportthe design bureau for 2018, the development of "a significant part of the working design documentation (RCD) for the construction of transport for the Russian Navy" has already been completed. Also, Vympel Design Bureau reported on the development of a unified platform for four technical projects of the auxiliary fleet: universal transport, killer vessel, universal tanker and a multi-purpose logistics support vessel with deployment on board a full-time shipboard hospital (code "Platform-DTO"). 

    According to the publication, the RKD for transport is planned to be prepared at the turn of 2019–2020. Bookmarking can be carried out in a year, when they decide on the construction plant.

    As the interlocutor at the Krylov State Scientific Center told Mil.Press FlotProm, the fleet needs the auxiliary vessels of large displacement of the far sea zone. "In the coming years, the Russian Navy will receive several new frigates and modernized BODs of Project 1155 (reclassified as frigates - ed.). To ensure their operations in different parts of the World Ocean, appropriate support vessels will need to be built in large series," he said.

    In June 2015, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov said in response to a question from the publication that the development of Vympel was presented and handed over to the military, shipbuilders were waiting for the customer’s decision. 

    Mil.Press FlotProm Help


    As the head of the auxiliary fleet service of the Ministry of Defense’s transport support department, captain of rank Sergey Epifanov, told the newspaper’s journalist in December 2018, the construction of a series of auxiliary vessels for the Russian Navy designed on the platform-DTO topic will begin after the competition for the selection of order-executing shipyards. 

    On a single modular platform, Vympel designers are developing at least four projects for auxiliary fleet vessels. Projects were assigned numbers from 23480 onwards. 

    Dmitry Zhavoronkov 
    They are talking about large auxiliary ships up to 18000tons... maybe they could build them in Zaliv (Kerch)?
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    Post  Hole on Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:38 pm

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 13 000423
    I guess they mean these fellows.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:50 pm

    Hole wrote:Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 13 000423
    I guess they mean these fellows.
    exactly those.
    In addition to Zaliv, that for sure would benefit orders for large vessels,
    other shipyards large enough for it would be the Admiralty and the Baltic shipyards in sankt Petersburg, possibly the Vyborg shipyard, and for sure Zvezda. (Sevmash has of course the size and capabilities to build them, but it is the only shipyard currently building nuclear subs)
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    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:47 pm

    Ship "Akademik Ageev" transferred for completion at the Kanonersky shipyard


    Reportedly, on August 31 and September 1, 2019, the first-class oceanographic research vessel (special purpose), Academician Ageev (serial number 451), project 16450 (code "Garage-Guys"), being built for the Main Directorate for Deep-Water Research (GUGI) The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, was transferred along the Neva from the Pella Leningrad Shipyard OJSC (Otradnoye, Leningrad Region) for completion at the Kanonersky Shipbuilding Plant CJSC (Kanonersky Island, St. Petersburg).

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:55 am

    What an odd looking vessel...

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