Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Share

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:46 pm

    The problem with this tactic of scanning for targets while hovering behind trees is two fold.

    Not only can any modern PESA ground based SAM radar track such targets, since to hover in 10-30m altitude means that you are not further than 4km away from the SAM/SHORAD, which means you are as clear as a dying star at a night sky, despite trees being some source of clutter reflection, but the background is still the Sky a very poor environment of clutter and reflections of radar waves, aswell rotor blades have a very high amount of radar wave reflection aswell they are easily distinguishable from most sources, since they turn and have constantly a changing angle and surface they reflect the radars back, which every SAM radar can track and recognize as a source of artificial object and not a clutter.

    That was the first problem, very short range, highl RCS since radar and rotor blades are still lifted above trees/obstacles.

    The second problem is that was found with Longbow radar based on the MMW which has a high resolution but from a very flat illuminating angle like in the case of hovering behind obstacles, the system has very hard problems distinguishing a source and where exactly it is. The radar waves come flat in and come flat back and the radar can not distinguish accuratley how long the tank is or might even be filtered out like the tests have shown problems with the high amount of stationary targets being seen as clutter and filtered out. While the helicopter tries to scan for the target tank a close by Shorad will immidiatley notice the radar scanning and will not have huge problems to find its prey and work against it.

    Those problems are years old and have been only addressed since the Block 3 came out and to what level they have been solved is a different question, but such problems are normal to such radars especially for their purpose. The amount of clutter a sky gives is almost non existent compared what all the sources for clutter on the ground can produce and those were the results from Iraqi flat desert with low amount of objects. Europe would be a nightmare for using Radars with lot of success in this kind of setting or purpose.

    Radars should always be seen as sumpliment for awarness never as a garantee or a major technology that should have highest priority for pilots and what sources of information they should trust. Military intelligence of observers and UAV's are much more useful for that role than radars, but they are just as subject to camoflauge tactics of military to hide entire weapon plattforms.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:27 am

    Actually the unification of missile design of the Pantsir-S and Hermes would be rather interesting as the Pantsir-S missiles are very cheap command guided missiles but the option of having a Hermes truck stationed with the Pantsir battery with 100km range IIR or MMW radar guided missiles able to be fired and forgotten would be very interesting... especially against an enemy wanting to overwhelm a defence with lots of drones.... certanly a Hermes truck with 40 tubes ready to launch would be cheap to fill with command guided missiles...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 737
    Points : 920
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:27 am


    «Гермес» missile (personal note : «Гермес-A») will be employed in Syria aboard Ka-52K.

    The selection of this very challenging and still in testing launching platform for the baptism of fire of the brand new weapon (a true hazard under most points of view.....) is very likely an attempt to capitalize at maiximum the enormous export potential for «Гермес-A» that the acquisition of an high number of Ka-52K by Egypt could generate in the international market.

    In particular the missile -surpassing ,even in the export version, several times the key characteristics of the best competitor's missiles in the same category worldwide - will offer not only to foreign Armies but also to foreign Navies the capability to destroy time fixed and time-sensible targets with pin point precision and from well outside range of any foreign SHORAD systems.


    http://vpk.name/news/166612_rossiiskaya_armiya_ispyitaet_v_sirii_sverhdalnoboinyie_raketyi.html

    xeno
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 143
    Points : 148
    Join date : 2013-02-04

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  xeno on Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:03 pm

    The original source is infamous Izvestia's report on 26th, October(http://izvestia.ru/news/640452)
    VPK simply and uncarefully quote the Izvestia's report on 27th, October.
    Russia won't test Hermes(a totally new system) on Ka-52K(a new platform) in Syria where Mi-35 and Mi-17 were shot down, at least in the near future.
    Please don't believe this report, Mindstorm.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3685
    Points : 3797
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:01 pm


    Didn't they mention Naval version of Hermes? It was supposed to be vertical launch version if I remember correctly.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:16 am

    If it is vertically launched it would be interesting as it uses a big powerful solid rocket booster motor to give it rapid acceleration to rather high speed... 1,000-1,300m/s with the new booster motors and burn out in 2-3 seconds.

    That would mean that for vertical launch it would need to do the circus trick the TOR does where it is cold launched into the air and rockets at the nose and tail orient the missile in the required direction and then the main rocket is fired to accelerate the missile towards the direction of the target.

    Its high range of 30km suggests a near ballistic flight path so a high angle launch trajectory would also be a good thing in that direction... though being aimed at the target at launch would also allow much closer targets to be engaged too.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 737
    Points : 920
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:46 am


    Concept of employment for the new ПТРК "Гермес".

    Obviously the central technical features around which the product was conceived were : engagement range, missile speed and integration in the unified battlespace management system for target positional update from third party multi-platforms.


    http://vpk.name/news/168634_adskaya_hrizantema_dlya_protivnika_v_chem_sekret_mogushestva_rossiiskih_ptrk.html

    Sponsored content

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:12 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:12 am