Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Share

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 986
    Points : 1139
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:11 pm

    Will the hermes have similar power to the maverick or will it be a just a 2 stage vikhr with the same puny warhead?

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:54 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Will the hermes have similar power to the maverick or will it be a just a 2 stage vikhr with the same puny warhead?

    Ok, I'll bite.

    How is Vihr puny?
    It can pen a tank can it not?

    Hermes has nothing to do with Vihr anyways.

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 986
    Points : 1139
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Will the hermes have similar power to the maverick or will it be a just a 2 stage vikhr with the same puny warhead?

    Ok, I'll bite.

    How is Vihr puny?
    It can pen a tank can it not?

    Hermes has nothing to do with Vihr anyways.
    I think it cant penetrate the leopard 2A6 or leclerc from the front... Of course this is just my speculation

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:10 pm

    What is the chance it will hit the tank right in the front, where the strongest armor is?

    Almost none. Even if the engagement happens to be head on, not @ an angle, the missile descend at an angle, not head on into the front array.

    EDIT: I stated that like a retard.

    What I meant was if the helicopter does NOT engage the tank from say behind, or a side angle, and it does happen to engage it from the frontal arc, the missile still descends on an angle, not parallel to the front armor array.


    Last edited by TR1 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:52 am

    The Vikhr is not going to enter wide service anyway.

    Suffice to say Vikhr-M has a flight range of 10km, but is a single stage missile with a 12kg dual purpose warhead for use against armour and aerial targets, and is reported to be capable of penetrating up to 1.2m of RHAe under ERA which sounds like plenty to me... more importantly it flys at 610m/s which makes it very fast and its beam riding guidance is difficult to defeat.

    The Hermes has a multirole warhead weighing 30kgs which should be plenty for most ground targets.

    The range for the air launched models is given as 20km and for ground launched 40km later expanded to 100km.

    Flight speed of the two stage missile is a maximum of 1.3km/s.

    It is important to remember that a tank that has on paper frontal armour that will stop something that can penetrate 1.2m of RHAe is not a smooth continuous surface offering the same protection from all directions and all angles.

    Most such armour gets its effectiveness from being angled which increases the amount of armour that needs to be penetrated... in the same way that when walking straight across a road you walk the width of the road, yet if you walk both across the road and down the road at the same time... ie Jaywalk, you actually ending up walking further than the width of the road to get across.

    The HERMES will follow a fairly ballistic path especially to long range targets so most of the time it will likely adopt a diving top attack flight profile from the ground launcher anyway, so the ability to penetrate more than 1.2m under ERA should kill anything it can reach.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  medo on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:44 pm

    The Hermes has a multirole warhead weighing 30kgs which should be plenty for most ground targets.

    With cca 30 kg HEAT warhead, Hermes could penetrate far more than 1,2 m after ERA. Even Kornet-M or Khrizantema could penetrate more than 1,2 m after ERA with less than 10 kg HEAT warhead.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:29 am

    It is not a pure HEAT warhead, it is a multi purpose HEAT/HE FRAG warhead.

    If it was a pure anti armour weapon it would probably have three warheads... a small calibre warhead near the nose the set off ERA, and then two full calibre HEAT charges behind it... the rear one firing first starting the penetration and then the front warhead firing and continuing the penetration the way the Hellfire does (though without the small precursor charge).

    The problem is that the warhead is for a range of targets so it has a forward facing HEAT charge and most likely fragmentation material around the sides and rear of the charge plus two fuses. The fuse at the back will make it a HEAT charge that burns through armour but with fragments to the sides and rear. The front fuse results in just fragmentation in all directions.

    With a diving trajectory 1.2m + is plenty with the advantage that it can be used against a wide range of softer targets including aircraft.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  medo on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:13 am

    Even if HEAT warhead is only 15 kg and the rest in HE-frag, it could still penetrate more than 1,5 m or near 2 m. It could also be 1 big HEAT warhead, but with two different fuses, one to activate it as HEAT and one to activate it as HE, which one will be used, could be decided before missile launch.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 am

    You could be right... they might just be being conservative with their figures.

    I rather expect they were given a set of parameters to meet... ie penetrate 1.2m of RHAe under ERA and also be able to destroy xyz.

    It is rather likely the warhead is not set in stone and that in 5 years time they learn new tanks have armour rated to 2m or more that a revision of the warhead design could be applied to compensate.

    The thing is that with terminal guidance and flight trajectory shaping the likelyhood that these missiles will come in at a steep angle is probably quite high. Coming in from a steep angle has several advantages, including avoiding bushes and tree branches and cables and power lines on the way to the target. Another advantage of attacking from a fairly steep angle is that even if you miss you will still land near the target and with a 30kg warhead you can still inflict damage. A horizontal shot that is 5cm too high might land hundreds of thousands of metres away, while a shot from a steep angle will hit the ground close to the target... that is why Hinds climb and then dive on their targets when firing rockets so even without direct hits the rockets will explode near the targets and still do damage. Against area targets like a group of trucks or infantry in the open this is very effective.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:09 am

    Seems Ataka still has some life in her yet:



    During his visit to the design bureau's testing ground, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev was shown samples of weapons developed by the company.

    In particular, the prime minister was shown a modernised self-propelled anti-tank missile system Shturm-SM that can locate targets at night. The system is equipped with an Ataka missile with radar and laser-beam control channels, CEO and Senior Designer Valery Kashin told Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, adding that Shturm SM systems are installed on Ka-52 and Mi-28N combat helicopters and on exported Mirage boats. Official testing of this complex begins on Tuesday, Mr Kashin said, adding that the Russian army has several hundred such self-propelled anti-tank systems. "We can upgrade them during turnaround maintenance," he told the prime minister.

    Dmitry Medvedev was also shown an export version of the first all-weather multi-channel self-propelled anti-tank missile system Khrizantema-SE. This system has for the first time been equipped with a radar operating in the millimetre frequency range. "What is this range for?" the prime minister asked. "It helps the azimuth station form a narrow beam to improve targeting," Valery Kashin said.

    Then Prime Minister Medvedev toured the Luchnik self-propelled system. Mr Kashin said that it was designed for export and is equipped with missiles that are used in portable air defence systems (MANPADS) Igla-S, adding that Igla-S complexes are superior to their foreign counterparts due to the more advanced warheads and contact fuse. Mr Kashin said MANPADS Igla-S form the bulk of the company's revenue. "Of the total 12 billion (of revenue), eight billion come from MANPADS," he said.

    Mr Kashin also reported that the Igla-S was used to develop weapon systems for Ka-52 and Mi-28N helicopters and a ship-based version of the system that is already being installed on the first batch of ships for the Caspian Flotilla.

    The prime minister asked Mr Kashin and Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov about the organisation of MANPADS export control. "We have a provision in every contract that we have the right to conduct an inspection," Mr Kashin said. "Right, so as to make sure that everything is in place," Mr Medvedev said.

    http://government.ru/eng/docs/19758/

    So it seems that a new "system" called Shturm-SM has been developed using Ataka missiles that have radar and laser beam riding guidance... a bit like Krisantema really.

    As a cheap, short range precision weapon option goes the ATAKA would be very good value for money as it is supersonic (420m/s) and does not trail wires so it can be fired from a moving platform. Accuracy is pretty good and it is not that heavy or bulky and with HE Frag warheads it could be a very useful weapon for a light UCAV or helo.

    Adding radar guidance for all weather use suggests to me they have ported over the Krisantemas radio command guidance equipment to allow radar equipped helos to find targets and engage them in all weathers day or night with a cheap simple missile that is already in widespread Russian service with Army Aviation.

    Against aerial targets or non armoured targets the older Ataka would be every bit as capable as the newer Krisantema... except likely cheaper. The new Krisantema adds a larger calibre HEAT warhead for better penetration performance, yet against many targets this wont be that critical a difference.

    The change in the system should allow Shturm, Ataka, and Kristantema missiles to be used together by the same platform.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:18 am

    "This is the main difference between it and the previous Shturm-S modification," he added.

    It has also been altered to allow it to be installed on air, land and sea platforms, he said.

    "For this, the highly effective multi-role Ataka guided missile has been fitted with a second, laser guidance system," he said.

    In other words it retains its original command guidance system and gets an additional laser guidance system... which I suspect is the same laser beam riding system used with the Krisantema. The Ataka and Shturm use a command guidance system based on a 35GHz transmitter seen on Hind gunships and the thimble nose of the Mi-28 and ships that use the system.

    I suspect the ATAKA used on the BMPT prototype uses laser beam riding guidance as there is no obvious thimble guidance system.0

    Such a configuration should give the system night and all weather capability assuming sensors added to the platform allow the detection and tracking of target and missile at night and all weathers. On the Mi-28 and Ka-52 that would include thermal imaging cameras and MMW radars for ground and air targets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    "For this, the highly effective multi-role Ataka guided missile has been fitted with a second, laser guidance system," he said.

    In other words it retains its original command guidance system and gets an additional laser guidance system... which I suspect is the same laser beam riding system used with the Krisantema. The Ataka and Shturm use a command guidance system based on a 35GHz transmitter seen on Hind gunships and the thimble nose of the Mi-28 and ships that use the system.

    I suspect the ATAKA used on the BMPT prototype uses laser beam riding guidance as there is no obvious thimble guidance system.0

    Such a configuration should give the system night and all weather capability assuming sensors added to the platform allow the detection and tracking of target and missile at night and all weathers. On the Mi-28 and Ka-52 that would include thermal imaging cameras and MMW radars for ground and air targets.

    So how do you think the second laser guidance system works?

    I dont have seen the ATAKAs on BMPT only the containers.

    Maybe they have the same concept like they used on Hinds/havocs, an initial start via radio command and a following laser beam riding guidance, but now they maybe have an IR-homing seeker for initial start and the laser beam riding guidance as the main guidance for higher noise resistance?
    Maybe im completley on the wrong way?

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 986
    Points : 1139
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:08 am

    Have there been any live fire tests with this missile or are there still only 3D images yet?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:08 am

    So how do you think the second laser guidance system works?

    Sorry, but I would interpret "a" second laser guidance system as being a single laser beam riding guidance system in addition to the existing radio command guidance system. I would not interpret it as having two laser guidance systems.

    I dont have seen the ATAKAs on BMPT only the containers.

    I think I have seen them fire missiles at the shooting ranges so I suspect they are not just models.

    Maybe they have the same concept like they used on Hinds/havocs, an initial start via radio command and a following laser beam riding guidance, but now they maybe have an IR-homing seeker for initial start and the laser beam riding guidance as the main guidance for higher noise resistance?

    AFAIK the Shturm and Ataka both use radio command guidance where they are launched forwards towards the target. The gunner places a crosshair onto the target and the computer tracks the position of the missile in its field of view using a gionometer which tracks a coded signal coming from the tail of the missile. The computer compares the location of the missile with the location of the centre of the crosshair and generates flight commands for the missile to fly it into line with the crosshairs. Those command signals are sent via the black round thimble on the Hind and the Havoc to the missile to command it to fly along the line to the target.

    This guidance is used all the way to impact so as long as the crosshairs are kept on the target and the missile doesn't run out of range eventually the missile will hit the target.

    This new improvement likely adds laser beam riding guidance, which simply means the launch platform directs a very very low powered laser at the target. The missile is launched and a sensor opens looking back at the launch platform. The laser is coded so the missile can detect its position within the beam and work out what sort of manouver it needs to perform to centre itself and hit the target.

    Vikhr and Kornet already use this sort of guidance. Because the laser sensor is looking directly back at the laser emitter itself the laser can be much less powerful than one that is reflected off the target and back at the missile seeker.
    The missile seeker is not looking at the target so DIRCMs wont work on it, and even if the target pops smoke this wont effect the guidance till the missile has entered enough smoke to make the laser difficult to see... by which time the missile might just be metres from the target so there is a good chance it might hit anyway.

    Laser beam riding guidance is cheap and simple too and can be used to direct the missile at any target including hidden ones that wont show up on radar or IR.

    Have there been any live fire tests with this missile or are there still only 3D images yet?

    I am guessing you mean Hermes.

    AFAIK it hasn't but I rather suspect they might have.

    The missile is related to the SA-19 and SA-22 two stage missiles, so they are not designed from scratch.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    r111
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 31
    Points : 39
    Join date : 2014-11-24

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  r111 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:45 pm

    It is suspected that Hermes saw some use in certain former USSR republic, with most spectacular results. Of course we'd have to wait few decades before such alleged use, if any, is declassified Smile

    There's a great deal of appeal of this kind of weapons for spec ops, remote outposts, defensive positions etc. You don't have to scramble CAS (which u may not even have) or wake up the howitzer company 20km away and hope they have enough shells (good for anti-personnel and light-armor, no use against tanks).

    All you need is a lasing device and/or, for stationary targets, geo-locator/range meter.

    Quick signal, they launch one from 80 km away. A minute later target goes kaboom. And they never see/hear anything coming. Big believer into these.

    I think Swedes have something similar - but that one is bigger, much more expensive and is steered the whole way. Upside - it can be vertical-launched from a simple tube container. Say u're doing a spec-op insertion/convoy intercept. U helo-deliver a 20-tube container somewhere 10-15 km away from point of engagement and then spec-op unit takes over direct control of firing (encrypted etc). Build in some form of self-destruction capability if you're unable to retrieve it. (Still Chinese & Iranians will build a replica of it just a year later Smile

    Hermes is ballistic most of its way, needs to be aimed to arrive into proximity of the target and then it starts to steer at the target. Super fast, but does require physical aiming of the launch tube

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:33 pm

    If you are implying the rumors that Hermes was used in Ukraine, I am sorry to disappoint.

    There is nothing credible whatsoever to indicate it has been used. Damn thing has not even been made yet.

    r111
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 31
    Points : 39
    Join date : 2014-11-24

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  r111 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:47 pm

    Yes, like I said, these were just rumors Twisted Evil . Many ppl kind of wish them to turn out to be true, me included.

    Platform itself certainly has many merits. A small forward observation team can unleash a hail of very capable rockets with pinpoint accuracy - all at expense of carrying fairly small laser designator thumbsup .

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3225
    Points : 3349
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:54 am



    This missile if work as advertised will definitively become a game changer. It will be like Airforce precision bombing without planes. All done from the ground. But possibly could be moved to planes or boats. Imagine that missile destroying a tank 100km away with a top attack missile. that will be epic. Can't wait to see it in action.. Smile

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:46 pm

    Wow thumbsup

    ATRA "Hermes" can destroy a target at a distance of 100 kilometers

    This was announced by Head of TASS complexes Tula JSC "Instrument Design Bureau" (KBP) Vladislav Sel'kin.

    "The latest ATGM" Hermes "is being developed in two versions - informed Sel'kin. - The missile, developed to hit a target in sight, will allow destroy the target at a distance of 20 km, and modification - out of sight, at a distance of 100 km. "

    According to him, allowed the use of ATRA "Hermes-A" on unmanned aerial vehicles with the necessary load-carrying capacity.

    At the moment, anti-tank complex "Hermes" is equipped with semi-active homing (GOS), thereby pointing at the target horizon missile modification action is carried out by means of target illumination laser beam. "In the development of new types are independent of the GOS, for example, radar or infrared type with heat-seeking" - added Sel'kin.

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Zivo on Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:28 pm

    They're using the same terminal stage, and added a larger booster stage.

    What I don't understand, is that there's going to be an overlap in capability with other MLRS systems. What's the point in having multiple systems that do the same thing? HERMES-A is one hell of an ATGM, but compared to other MLRS, it's nothing special. Perhaps it would make a good export.

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3225
    Points : 3349
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:33 am

    Zivo wrote:They're using the same terminal stage, and added a larger booster stage.

    What I don't understand, is that there's going to be an overlap in capability with other MLRS systems. What's the point in having multiple systems that do the same thing? HERMES-A is one hell of an ATGM, but compared to other MLRS, it's nothing special. Perhaps it would make a good export.


    Russia don't have lazer guided precision Artillery at 100km range.. the closest thing is
    Krasnopol with 30km range ,fired from artillery.  Their smerch rocket artillery have a 90km
    range ,but not sure about how its precision missiles works.. using drones or heat seeking..
    fire and forget ? i think those are.. things that you have not complete full control of where you want it to hit exactly in the end ,the target is chosen in the end by the onboard sensors ,so less control .  Perhaps Hermes is more ideal against heavy armored tanks ,while smerch is more ideal against enemy soldiers ,enemy artillery or light armored targets without active defenses. That is precision area attacks. while Hermes is more ideal for highly armored targets..
    Price is also a reason both exist.. definitively you cannot use Hermes missiles as artillery ,fire
    thousands of them or your army will go bankrupt in a day ,since the missile have expensive warheads ,inertial guidance ,and semi-active lazer guidance sensors. so should be more expensive than any other artillery munition or anti tank weapon in Russia inventory.


    Update..
    After some gogle.. says hermes can target Low flying aircraft.. like hellicopers  Artillery can't do that. So Hermes is like a multipurpose anti armor missile with 100km range. It doesn't produce a massive area blast like rocket or regular artillery.. so is aimed and destroying single armored targets in ground or low-slow flying aircraft. it also could be adapted to boats. to target other boats.etc.

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:51 am

    Zivo wrote:They're using the same terminal stage, and added a larger booster stage.

    What I don't understand, is that there's going to be an overlap in capability with other MLRS systems. What's the point in having multiple systems that do the same thing? HERMES-A is one hell of an ATGM, but compared to other MLRS, it's nothing special. Perhaps it would make a good export.

    The Hermes non-line of sight variant is a long-range guided missile - it has nothing in common with an MLRS. It's more like a cruise-missile - only more flexible and dynamic as well as lower-cost - it can receive new instructions in flight, change course, target and can no doubt be directed manually by an operator with TV-guidance or some variant. It can fly in through the window of a house where terrorists are hiding out with little collatoral damage, or fly low hugging the terrain and strike a command vehicle dozens of kilometres behind the front-line - that's on the move.

    The closest analogue is the Israeli Spike-NLOS; with capabilties similar to the ones I laid out. Only the Hermes has far longer range, and no doubt better armour penetration.

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Zivo on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:00 pm




    • Designed to equip ground-based vehicles

    • Can destroy ground and floating target at ranges up to 100km

    • Capable of salvo fire

    • Provides effective counterbattery fire


    It doesn't produce a massive area blast like rocket or regular artillery

    Hermes has a 30kg warhead, Krasnopol-m2's warhead is ~25kg . You wouldn't want to be anywhere near one when it hits.

    It's more like a cruise-missile - only more flexible and dynamic as well as lower-cost - it can receive new instructions in flight, change course, target and can no doubt be directed manually by an operator with TV-guidance or some variant.

    Valid point. It's a precision strike, without the costly delivery method. Hermes-A's terminal stage uses SALH for guidance. We don't know what the 100km version will use. It could be TV guided, image seeking, MMW seeking, SALH, GPS, all or any of the above.

    or fly low hugging the terrain

    Since it's based on the 57E6 missile, it'll probably boost as high and far as it can, than glide towards the target.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:38 am

    The direct fire 20km range models could fly fairly low like a cruise missile... but likely at a fairly high speed.

    Remember this missile is related to the missile of Pantsir-S1 so very high initial acceleration and then glide to the target, though this missile might have some form of extra propulsion to maintain speed.

    I suspect the 100km version will likely use a more powerful solid rocket booster and a ballistic path to the target area with lock on after launch capabilities.

    the 20km range version will likely be much like the SA-22 missile of Pantsir-S1 and might lock onto the target after launch or before launch.

    the KBP website describes initial guidance as being inertial with command guidance to allow a change in target, with terminal homing.

    In the past the terminal homing options have been listed as laser beam riding, semi active laser homing (ie target spot homing), satellite guidance, radar guidance, or IIR guidance.

    In this day and age with the miniaturisation and reduced costs of the various technologies combinations of these guidance methods become possible... with GLONASS guidance getting the missile within visual range where IIR/LLLTV or MMW radar sensors can be used for terminal guidance.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:47 pm

    The terminal guidance will probably adopt MMW/IIR seeker maybe with TV guidance, because at such distances usually there is no plattform close enough to give any Laser Beam Riding terminal guidance, for that the launching plattform would need to fly above 2km altitude which is not wanted for attack helicopters, not only do they consume a lot of fuel when combat loaded at higher altitudes than 1000m, they also give a wider area from where enemy could engage it with MANPADs or SHORADs. The terminal guidance could become quite cost intensive with adoption of IIR/MMW guidance.

    Sponsored content

    Re: "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:26 am


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:26 am