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    NATO: Discussion and News

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    max steel
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  max steel on Fri May 27, 2016 5:59 am

    Nordic Tank Challenge





    Danes won.

    Werewolf
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Fri May 27, 2016 11:06 am

    So Leo's won all chalanges even in hands of less trained countries. What a "suprise"..... not!

    max steel
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  max steel on Fri May 27, 2016 12:08 pm

    To be fair Nordic Tank Challenge is more biased towards the Danish Army. In Strong Europe Tank Challenge, every country used their own equipment for which the crews were trained. In Nordic Tank Challenge this is not always the case: for example firing the service weapons of the crew is only done with the Danish rifle, which gives the Danish soldiers some benefit (they are trained with this rifle.)



    The M1A2 SEP v2, which is currently the most advanced version in US service didn't beat Italians only the Slovenian team in museum piece M84s (clone T72) ,with manual firecontrol, -+1 mil weapon stabilisation and 80's optics. Effectively US teams placed dead last Slovenian team in M84 beat them in most tasks but firing where M1A2SEP tech comes to light. The US team barely edged out T-72 monkeys(M84).


    One detail most overlooked ,wining german team was the only one of all participating teams not lead by an officer but by NCO and reservists

    Crews suck , they had issues with basic tank skills like camouflaging a vehicle in terrain.
    From Strong Europe Tank Challenge






    Detailed Score : http://www.mihalko-family.com/Canadian-Army-Trophy-Competition.htm#SETC

    max steel
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  max steel on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:54 pm

    NATO Struggles to Recover after Years of Budget Cuts

    A recent study set off widespread concern about NATO's readiness to confront Russian aggression. Now, alliance member states are ratcheting up defense spending -- but the numbers still don't add up.

    RAND Corporation simulations aren't for the faint of heart. The think tank in Santa Monica, California is a progeny of the Cold War and the 1960 study conducted by legendary systems theorist Herman Kahn -- which examined the consequences of nuclear war -- has not been forgotten.

    He believed the aftermath could be managed. Following a nuclear conflict, Kahn proposed, contaminated food should be reserved for the elderly since they would likely die before contracting cancer as a result of radiation. The researcher thus became one of the inspirations for Stanley Kubrick's film satire "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

    Several weeks ago, the California-based game theorists released another study that received a fair amount of attention. Financed by the Pentagon, they created a series of simulations for a hypothetical Russian invasion of the two Baltic states of Estonia and Latvia.

    "The outcome was, bluntly, a disaster for NATO," the RAND researchers wrote in their report. In each simulation, the Russians were able to either circumvent the outnumbered NATO units, or even worse, destroy them. Between 36 and 60 hours after the beginning of hostilities, Russian troops stood before the gates of Riga or Tallinn -- or both.

    The RAND simulation triggered heated debate. In an article headlined "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love NATO's Crushing Defeat by Russia," American military expert Michael Kofman questioned strategic parameters used in the simulations. "No one can intelligently articulate the benefits of such potential actions for the Russians," he wrote.

    But the game theorists from Santa Monica aren't the only ones simulating grim scenarios these days. The Russians are conducting giant military exercises to practice for a war with the West. At the same time, they are reinforcing military units stationed in the exclave of Kaliningrad, located between Poland and Lithuania.

    NATO in turn intends to station rotating battalions to the Baltic States as a signal to Moscow that the alliance takes its commitment to mutual assistance seriously. Security experts and generals, though, are complaining that such moves are not enough and are pushing for the stationing of larger and -- especially -- more permanent units on the alliance's eastern flank.

    It has been several months in coming, but the Ukraine crisis has now led to a renaissance of Cold War-era military thinking. In the 1980s, Western military leaders spoke about the strategic vulnerability of the Fulda Gap. Today, it is Poland's Suwalki Gap that is giving them sleepless nights.


    Trust Gives Way to Deterrence


    At the NATO summit in Warsaw in early July, leaders of NATO member states will discard their policy of "trust" and recommit to a policy of "deterrence." Just like before.

    The change will have wide-ranging consequences. Because no matter how many units are ultimately stationed in the east, one thing is clear: It will be expensive. The peace dividend has been exhausted. For a quarter of a century, NATO states were able to shrink their military forces: It made sense and saved money. The German military, the Bundeswehr, alone shrank from half-a-million soldiers to 177,000 over the course of 25 years.

    Now it has become clear that force reduction went too far. Lots of European armed forces are operating at the limits of their operational capacity, with too few soldiers and old, worn-out equipment. Over the years, a strong need for investment has accrued. Some Bundeswehr units today are so ill equipped that they need to trade scarce equipment among each -- a process referred to as "dynamic availability management."

    The Americans in particular are putting pressure on the Europeans to once again invest more significantly in their own defense. In March, US President Barack Obama complained about the European "free riders" who are profiting from American protection while refusing to take on their "fair share."

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:00 am

    The New Cold War - NATO Plans 40k Force, Bases on Russia's Border Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160615/1041407693/nato-cold-war-russian-border.html#ixzz4BgiD6rQi

    Curious, with 40K troops to be stationed near Russia, I wonder what will Russia's response be? If it is to station more troops in west, then the US will just respond with even more stationed troops. IT will just be continuous till Russia has no more troops to be able to station in the west.

    So something else will have to be done. I figure Russia will have to start moving troops and equipment to Crimea (even more), more to Kaliningrad and start sending troops to friendly nations.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:33 am

    sepheronx wrote:The New Cold War - NATO Plans 40k Force, Bases on Russia's Border  Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160615/1041407693/nato-cold-war-russian-border.html#ixzz4BgiD6rQi

    Curious, with 40K troops to be stationed near Russia, I wonder what will Russia's response be? If it is to station more troops in west, then the US will just respond with even more stationed troops.  IT will just be continuous till Russia has no more troops to be able to station in the west.

    So something else will have to be done.  I figure Russia will have to start moving troops and equipment to Crimea (even more), more to Kaliningrad and start sending troops to friendly nations.

    Russia outght to have deployed land forces in Belarus, last year.
    At least 25,000 like in Crimea.

    Not sure how serious these NATO numbers are though. I've only heard about those 4-5,000 so far.

    sepheronx
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:17 am

    it is quite questionable of course the whole mention of it because it states 4,000 perminant troops but mentions 4 batallions quick reaction forces. So my guess is 40,000 NATO troops trained and ready. So each nation part of NATO will train 40,000 troops to be ready at short notice and flown into the nations. So probably not 40,000 troops of NATO stationed between Romania, Poland Latvia and Lithuania, but trained in various countries ready to be flown in.

    Still. Glad to know that there are 25,000 in Crimea. How many in Kaliningrad though? They should increase it to at least 40,000 troops.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:21 am

    sepheronx wrote:it is quite questionable of course the whole mention of it because it states 4,000 perminant troops but mentions 4 batallions quick reaction forces.  So my guess is 40,000 NATO troops trained and ready.  So each nation part of NATO will train 40,000 troops to be ready at short notice and flown into the nations.  So probably not 40,000 troops of NATO stationed between Romania, Poland Latvia and Lithuania, but trained in various countries ready to be flown in.

    Still.  Glad to know that there are 25,000 in Crimea.  How many in Kaliningrad though? They should increase it to at least 40,000 troops.

    I mentioned 25,000 as the number quoted as maximum for Crimea deployment, before annexation.
    That number was treaty-assigned iirc. I assume post-annexation the number may be higher.

    max steel
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:53 pm

    Landmark NATO Summit to Begin In Warsaw


    On Friday and Saturday (8-9 July 2016), the leaders of the 28 NATO Allies and many partner nations will meet for a landmark Warsaw Summit. Together, they will take decisions to enhance the Alliance’s security by strengthening its deterrence and defence, and projecting stability beyond its borders.

    Allies will agree to deploy four robust and multinational battalions to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, on a rotational basis. A multinational framework brigade in Romania will provide a tailored presence in south-eastern Europe. NATO will also take further steps to improve cyber defences, civil preparedness and to defend against ballistic missile attack from outside the Euro-Atlantic area.

    To project stability beyond our borders, leaders will agree to extend NATO’s training mission in Iraq and to broaden the Alliance’s role in the central Mediterranean. They will also approve the deployment of NATO’s AWACS surveillance aircraft to support the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will continue its military and financial support for Afghanistan and will strengthen political and practical cooperation with Ukraine, Georgia and the Republic of Moldova.

    Since NATO’s last summit in Wales in 2014, Allies have implemented the biggest increase in collective defence since the Cold War. Last year, Allies also increased defence spending for the first time in many years. Today, NATO is faster, stronger and more ready for any challenge. The decisions taken at the Warsaw Summit will help to ensure the safety of our citizens for years to come.

    There have been 27 previous summits. The first one was in December 1957. The last one was in Wales in September 2014. This Summit is the first to be hosted in Poland and the first to be chaired by Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. Fifty-eight official delegations will participate in the Summit. This includes all 28 NATO Allies, Montenegro which has been invited to join the Alliance, 26 partner countries and representatives from the United Nations, the European Union, the World Bank and the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. About 2,500 official delegates and 2,000 media representatives will attend.

    max steel
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:15 pm

    'Suwalki Gap' key to NATO's eastern flank security

    Lakes, forest and villages dot the rolling hills along Poland's 65-kilometre (40-mile) stretch of border with Lithuania, but for NATO's top brass, this bucolic landscape gives cause for sleepless nights.

    Sandwiched between Russia's highly militarised Kaliningrad exclave and Belarus, strategists dub the idyllic stretch of countryside the Suwalki Gap.

    They warn it is the Achilles' heel of NATO's eastern flank: its capture would amputate the alliance's three Baltic members and so shatter its credibility.

    Fears that Russia could attempt an attack surged after Moscow's 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine, a move which sent East-West relations to their lowest point since the Cold War.

    NATO's biggest ever war games in Eastern Europe -- June's Anaconda manoeuvres in Poland -- focused partly on defending the Gap, amid what one analyst dubbed "sophisticated" and "intimidating" exercises in Kaliningrad and Belarus.

    "Russia could take over the Baltic states faster than we would be able to defend them," the commander of US ground forces in Europe, General Ben Hodges, admitted to Germany's Die Zeit weekly.

    A Rand Corporation war games report issues the same stark warning: "The longest it has taken Russian forces to reach the outskirts of the Estonian and/or Latvian capitals of Tallinn and Riga, respectively, is 60 hours."

    John Deni, a research professor at the US Army War College Strategic Studies Institute, says the West's main concern "is that Russia would close" the Gap using a combination of ground forces from Kaliningrad and Belarus, or "air, tactical missile, or artillery assets based in Kaliningrad".

    Such moves "would likely lead to a broader war between Russia and the West," he warns.

    New arms race?

    Leaders at NATO's landmark summit in Warsaw on Thursday and Friday want to prevent that.

    As part of the largest alliance revamp since the Cold War, they are set to deploy four multinational battalions to the Baltic nations and Poland on a rotational basis.

    Dubbed NATO's "enhanced forward presence" and billed by the US-led alliance as part of a purely defensive "deter and dialogue" strategy, each battalion will have 600-1,000 troops.

    "Polish forces are well prepared to effectively defend it (Suwalki Gap), but of course there aren't enough of them, given Russia's full mobilisation. This is why (NATO) battle groups are necessary," Polish Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz told foreign press in Warsaw days ahead of the summit.

    Macierewicz also said he was beefing up Polish forces in the area.Unconfirmed local media reports say Britain will lead a battalion in Estonia, Canada in Latvia, and Germany in Lithuania, while the US is expected to do so in Poland.

    "We have made a very clear link between the presence of the battle groups in Poland and in the Baltic states," Tomasz Szatkowski, Polish defence ministry undersecretary of state, also told foreign media in Warsaw.

    "Most likely, it (battle group in Poland) will be in the proximity of the Suwalki Gap, in a location that allows them to very quickly secure it."

    Separately, the Pentagon said in March it would deploy an additional armoured brigade of about 4,200 troops in eastern Europe from early 2017 on a rotational basis.

    Moscow fiercely opposes Western expansion in what it sees as its Soviet-era backyard and in 1997, NATO formally agreed not to install permanent bases in former Warsaw Pact states.

    The Kremlin has stepped up its presence in the Baltic Sea area and its jets frequently test the airspace of NATO allies such as Estonia.

    It plans to create three new divisions in its southwest region and deploy new arms to meet what it described as a dangerous military build-up along its western borders.

    'Cold War is history'


    Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin accused NATO of tearing up the military balance in Europe and triggering a new arms race, although alliance chief Jens Stoltenberg has long insisted "the Cold War is history and we want it to stay that way".

    Poland's Szatkowski cast doubt on Putin's posturing, explaining that "the enhanced forward presence will not be something that by its own combat potential will be able to defend the whole theatre".

    "The bottom line is that it will significantly increase our security and reduce the probability of some unwanted incidents," he added.

    Minister Macierewicz also said non-members Finland and Sweden would attend the Warsaw summit to "deepen relations", something analysts note reinforces Baltic regional security.

    Macierewicz also signalled a "deepening of cooperation" between NATO and the EU with the inking of a "joint declaration and mutual support especially regarding hybrid threats."

    Poland plans to enrol volunteers in a 35,000-member paramilitary force intended to counter a perceived hybrid warfare threat from Russia.

    Russia's tactic is based on deception rather than a formal declaration of war, NATO strategists say.

    They suggest Russia used it to annex Crimea by covertly deploying unidentified troops and to engineer the pro-Moscow revolt in eastern Ukraine that followed.

    Warsaw will use these new "territorial defence forces" to expand its armed forces next year to 150,000 men from the current 100,000.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:09 pm

    This is a photo out of the Warsaw NATO conference. The interesting face is that of Erdogan, perhaps wondering what on earth he was doing with this bunch of children looking at toys in the sky.


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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  airstrike on Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:59 pm

    NATO-member Slovenia selling tanks and IFVs

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/05/slovenia-selling-tanks-and-ifvs/

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:48 am

    Top US Navy Admiral Says Russia, China Defenseless Against US Aircraft Carriers

    Recent naval advances by China and Russia have been heralded by defense experts who contest that America’s reign of dominance over the high seas may be coming to an end, but America’s Chief of Naval Operations thinks the US Navy remains unstoppable.

    In an interview with National Interest, Admiral John Richardson claimed that US aircraft carriers could operate unscathed within China and Russia’s anti-access area denial (A2/AD) zones boasting about the long standing naval superiority of America’s Pacific Fleet.

    "This A2/AD, well, it’s certainly a goal for some of our competitor, but achieving that goal is much different and much more complicated," said Admiral Richardson. "I think there is this long-range precision-strike capability, but A2/AD is sort of an aspiration. In actual execution it’s much more difficult."

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160906/1045001218/russia-china-pacific-fleet-navy.html

    This guy is suppose to be there top admiral, his words not only put his competence into question, but also his sanity.
    The Russian and Chinese navies have nothing to worry about with U.S officers of such "incredible" caliber. Laughing

    P.S: I wasn't able to find the original NI article, mostly because there website is completely disorganized.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:01 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Top US Navy Admiral Says Russia, China Defenseless Against US Aircraft Carriers

    Recent naval advances by China and Russia have been heralded by defense experts who contest that America’s reign of dominance over the high seas may be coming to an end, but America’s Chief of Naval Operations thinks the US Navy remains unstoppable.

    In an interview with National Interest, Admiral John Richardson claimed that US aircraft carriers could operate unscathed within China and Russia’s anti-access area denial (A2/AD) zones boasting about the long standing naval superiority of America’s Pacific Fleet.

    "This A2/AD, well, it’s certainly a goal for some of our competitor, but achieving that goal is much different and much more complicated," said Admiral Richardson. "I think there is this long-range precision-strike capability, but A2/AD is sort of an aspiration. In actual execution it’s much more difficult."

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160906/1045001218/russia-china-pacific-fleet-navy.html

    This guy is suppose to be there top admiral, his words not only put his competence into question, but also his sanity.
    The Russian and Chinese navies have nothing to worry about with U.S officers of such "incredible" caliber. Laughing

    P.S: I wasn't able to find the original NI article, mostly because there website is completely disorganized.

    But the U.S. officers have to worry about the "incredible" Kalibr.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  kvs on Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:35 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Top US Navy Admiral Says Russia, China Defenseless Against US Aircraft Carriers

    Recent naval advances by China and Russia have been heralded by defense experts who contest that America’s reign of dominance over the high seas may be coming to an end, but America’s Chief of Naval Operations thinks the US Navy remains unstoppable.

    In an interview with National Interest, Admiral John Richardson claimed that US aircraft carriers could operate unscathed within China and Russia’s anti-access area denial (A2/AD) zones boasting about the long standing naval superiority of America’s Pacific Fleet.

    "This A2/AD, well, it’s certainly a goal for some of our competitor, but achieving that goal is much different and much more complicated," said Admiral Richardson. "I think there is this long-range precision-strike capability, but A2/AD is sort of an aspiration. In actual execution it’s much more difficult."

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160906/1045001218/russia-china-pacific-fleet-navy.html

    This guy is suppose to be there top admiral, his words not only put his competence into question, but also his sanity.
    The Russian and Chinese navies have nothing to worry about with U.S officers of such "incredible" caliber. Laughing

    You are right, this is yet another hubris filled windbag propaganda koolaid drinker. Note the "long-range precision strike capability"
    drivel. Sure thing there, sunshine, Russia is too primitive to have such "high tech" capability. When you read wiki-crappia and its
    claims about Russian ICBM CEP numbers remember this clown and his drivel. NATO idiots really believe that Russian laser gyroscopes
    are less accurate than NATO laser gyroscopes. These NATO idiots never took a physics course in their lives; they are a bunch of
    high school dropouts who worked their way up as interns for various politicians. Their uneducated gut feelings tell them that all Russian
    missiles miss their targets by miles.


    Militarov
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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:36 pm

    max steel wrote:To be fair Nordic Tank Challenge is more biased towards the Danish Army. In Strong Europe Tank Challenge, every country used their own equipment for which the crews were trained. In Nordic Tank Challenge this is not always the case: for example firing the service weapons of the crew is only done with the Danish rifle, which gives the Danish soldiers some benefit (they are trained with this rifle.)



    The M1A2 SEP v2, which is currently the most advanced version in US service didn't beat Italians only the Slovenian team in museum piece M84s (clone T72) ,with manual firecontrol, -+1 mil weapon stabilisation and 80's optics. Effectively US teams placed dead last Slovenian team in M84 beat them in most tasks but firing where M1A2SEP tech comes to light. The US team barely edged out T-72 monkeys(M84).


    One detail most overlooked ,wining german team was the only one of all participating teams not lead by an officer but by NCO and reservists

    Crews suck , they had issues with basic tank skills like camouflaging a vehicle in terrain.
    From Strong Europe Tank Challenge






    Detailed Score : http://www.mihalko-family.com/Canadian-Army-Trophy-Competition.htm#SETC

    "only the Slovenian team in museum piece M84s (clone T72) ,with manual firecontrol, -+1 mil weapon stabilisation and 80's optics. Effectively US teams placed dead last Slovenian team in M84 beat them in most tasks but firing where M1A2SEP tech comes to light. The US team barely edged out T-72 monkeys(M84)."

    Actually M84/A does not have manual FCS like T72M, there are almost 1000 improvements over original imported T72s, so they have fully stabilised and integrated FCS produced by Rudi Cajavec with some components provided by Zrak, Ei, Teleoptik, Iskra and Prva Petoletka, only type of ammunition and temperature of the propellant can be entered manually. Slovenians replaced theirs tho with domestic Slovenian Fotona built FCS when original spares became a problem post war.

    Original FCS consists of: Control unit DNNS-2, command unit KBN, main computer with command unit KBN with 2 Motorola MC6802 CPUs, meteorological sensor on the turret, gyroscope, laser rangefinder, traversing speed finder etc etc...

    At the time of introduction M84A had one of the best fire control systems in the world, its worth mentioning tho that Yugoslavia cooperated on this project with Bofors in late 70s.

    Not all but majority of information about its FCS you can find here http://www.srpskioklop.paluba.info/m84/opis.htm



    Here you can see almost complete M84 FCS in parts taken out from the tank for repair, video is from Kuwait, mid 90s.

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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:21 pm


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    Re: NATO: Discussion and News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:09 am

    "56 cases of cigarettes and 1,000 liters of alcohol were found onboard the Estonian minehunter Sakala, which is taking part in NATO operations in the Baltic Sea. The ship’s commander has taken full responsibility and handed in his resignation."

    Source: https://www.rt.com/news/367985-estonian-nato-smuggling-resign/

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