GarryB wrote:My fav US fighter didn't make it to service... YF-23.
It was actually different in shape instead of the F-22 which is basically an F-15/MiG-25 layout aircraft.
My favourite western aircraft is the Buccaneer...
Same here... The -23 was a beautiful aircraft to say the very least... Lockheed made sure it didn't win, LOBBYISTS!!!
Apparently the YF-23 was better in every major factor (smaller RCS, more powerful engines) except for cost, and keep in mind the YF-22 was one of the most expensive planes ever built (F-35, B-2 Spirit takes the cake).
Viktor wrote:Just as in case with JSF they should have gone with McDonald Douglas solution and all would be good.
From a technological, effeciency and caring for military hardware point i would aggree, but i am totally happy with the US and their lobbyists and the MIC crippling the USAF capabilities with F-22 and F-35.
Viktor wrote:Just as in case with JSF they should have gone with McDonald Douglas solution and all would be good.
From a technological, effeciency and caring for military hardware point i would aggree, but i am totally happy with the US and their lobbyists and the MIC crippling the USAF capabilities with F-22 and F-35.
I don't think i could have put it any better... Lobbyists and the all-mighty $ are destroying this countries military from the inside out!
this is the problem with the U.S millitary and Mentality...right here. its not a show, its not a game. there are no-do overs. and arrogant cocky assholes get themselves or others killed with their stupid testosterone fueled retarded remarks and thinking. and how its portrayed there in that show like some Call of Duty episode of Modern Warfare is how they feed U.S troops that they send there to Afghanistan. because all of "us" coalition partners had the bullshit of the U.S troops to deal with out there. that and they considered the rest of us EU and Aussie troops like second-rate or that we all should be in awe of the U.S millitary machine.
sorry, but i call blowing up an afghan Quala into low orbit of earth by three 2000-pounder bombs not "american power" i call it first of all "over-kill" and secondly it reminds me of the dark ages. where people with low intellect made up with brute force to swing a big sword or hammer at someone to get the job done because they could not do any better.
anyway these are...sadly to say... reasons why americans got shot up a lot more than the rest of the coalition partners. Arrogance and Ignorance.
they even get killed or injured for the most trivial of tactical errors like this for example: american "hero" storms Taliban, what i see as an infantryman myself. is a fucking dumbass leaving cover with no other cover around and get shot hill-down in the process so someone else has to risk his life for his error to save him eventually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g
"I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety". genuine John Rambo here, im sure he will get a nice medal home for incompetent tactical decision-making.
and its just one of the reasons why during major operations in Afghanistan a fully loaded C-17's with dead and injured american troops departed KAF for Rammstein AFB 3 times a week.and most of those cases where unnecesary in my opinion.
this is the problem with the U.S millitary and Mentality...right here. its not a show, its not a game. there are no-do overs. and arrogant cocky assholes get themselves or others killed with their stupid testosterone fueled retarded remarks and thinking. and how its portrayed there in that show like some Call of Duty episode of Modern Warfare is how they feed U.S troops that they send there to Afghanistan. because all of "us" coalition partners had the bullshit of the U.S troops to deal with out there. that and they considered the rest of us EU and Aussie troops like second-rate or that we all should be in awe of the U.S millitary machine.
sorry, but i call blowing up an afghan Quala into low orbit of earth by three 2000-pounder bombs not "american power" i call it first of all "over-kill" and secondly it reminds me of the dark ages. where people with low intellect made up with brute force to swing a big sword or hammer at someone to get the job done because they could not do any better.
anyway these are...sadly to say... reasons why americans got shot up a lot more than the rest of the coalition partners. Arrogance and Ignorance.
they even get killed or injured for the most trivial of tactical errors like this for example: american "hero" storms Taliban, what i see as an infantryman myself. is a fucking dumbass leaving cover with no other cover around and get shot hill-down in the process so someone else has to risk his life for his error to save him eventually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g
"I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety". genuine John Rambo here, im sure he will get a nice medal home for incompetent tactical decision-making.
and its just one of the reasons why during major operations in Afghanistan a fully loaded C-17's with dead and injured american troops departed KAF for Rammstein AFB 3 times a week.and most of those cases where unnecesary in my opinion.
+1
And it is always the US who pushes for the "Soviets were sending soldiers into thousands into meatgrinder so they just could gain a single meter on the battlefield."
this is the problem with the U.S millitary and Mentality...right here. its not a show, its not a game. there are no-do overs. and arrogant cocky assholes get themselves or others killed with their stupid testosterone fueled retarded remarks and thinking. and how its portrayed there in that show like some Call of Duty episode of Modern Warfare is how they feed U.S troops that they send there to Afghanistan. because all of "us" coalition partners had the bullshit of the U.S troops to deal with out there. that and they considered the rest of us EU and Aussie troops like second-rate or that we all should be in awe of the U.S millitary machine.
sorry, but i call blowing up an afghan Quala into low orbit of earth by three 2000-pounder bombs not "american power" i call it first of all "over-kill" and secondly it reminds me of the dark ages. where people with low intellect made up with brute force to swing a big sword or hammer at someone to get the job done because they could not do any better.
anyway these are...sadly to say... reasons why americans got shot up a lot more than the rest of the coalition partners. Arrogance and Ignorance.
they even get killed or injured for the most trivial of tactical errors like this for example: american "hero" storms Taliban, what i see as an infantryman myself. is a fucking dumbass leaving cover with no other cover around and get shot hill-down in the process so someone else has to risk his life for his error to save him eventually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g
"I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety". genuine John Rambo here, im sure he will get a nice medal home for incompetent tactical decision-making.
and its just one of the reasons why during major operations in Afghanistan a fully loaded C-17's with dead and injured american troops departed KAF for Rammstein AFB 3 times a week.and most of those cases where unnecesary in my opinion.
+1
And it is always the US who pushes for the "Soviets were sending soldiers into thousands into meatgrinder so they just could gain a single meter on the battlefield."
true, its a bit weird to experience it for real tough. some are so utterly convinced that they "avenge 9/11" or "wage war on Terrorism". and mostly the argument stops there, like there are no facts and external motivations going on in the conflict outside of that. they just stick their heads in the sand for facts like the Taliban rose to power because the support they recieved from the U.S against the soviet-afghan war for one. and how they where called "freedom fighters" at the time. just for one example.
During Airsoft Games and afterwards in the bar i had talks about this "propaganda" tool that the U.S mass-media uses to get people that think like this to go fight their wars.
for one example, someone started about Russia as an agressor for an arguement. as he heard me and my group where Veterans from Afghanistan and former Millitary and mostly they think we would agree with their statement. i did not, and said he listened to too much Propaganda Bullshit. and what follows is a combination of Denial and Disbelief. trying to find an arguement that it cant be so, that their picture of something as they see it should be legitimised.
in the Airsoft world everyone knows Call of Duty of course. and i think most my age of 29 knows it here too. i asked if he played the "airport" level in Single player. he did, he loved the game. me too, but for whole different reasons that will come clear as you read on here. it gives me arguement with matter everyone is aware of and is easily shown as proof in an arguement.
i asked him if he played the entire level out, taking out Civvies and the FSB out on the Aircraft Parking. he did. and if he saw any issues with it, he really did not see any.
and then i asked to his favourite level, witch he was not sure at first. he ultimatly decided over Whiskey Hotel over that Oil-rig level to save the "hostages". he asked what it had to do with the arguement.
i replied more or less word for word as i say now: "so, as an CIA agent that shoots down dozens of Russian civilians together with FSB Counter-terrorist agents at an Russian Airport you see no problem. you have no moral opposition to the question. Secondly, you choose Whiskey Hotel as favourite Mission. you do know that mission in real life has no strategic or tactical advantage whatsoever right?. it only has russian troops occupying it. you know?. those people that are pretty pissed after some CIA agent and his Cronies liquidated half an Russian airport on Russian soil with Russian civilians and Federation comrades in Arms?. its unconsious interpretation by multi-media to paint the Russians as bad guys while its in fact the other -way around when you look at the facts that happen in the game".
the guy just stares at me more or less for a bit after witch i get slightly irritated and say if he understands the picture im lining out for him. he admitted it was not morally right when thinking about it, saying the terrorist act in the airport was still terrorism and understood if it was an KGB agent in the U.S they propably would respond the same to Russia. and after that returned to his team drinking on a table outside.
this "propaganda" crap is fed as soon kids play wargames nowadays, and they just grow up with that. and thats just one example in the multi-media aspect. like Mike E said on another thread the U.S Mainstream media is of course also busy to try to throw as many mud on anyone the White House wants to get rid off.
This is the prize of having the continent occupied by United States. I was hoping this to change with EU but happened exactly the opposite. Either a sovereign revolution or a major economic disaster can save us from this. Speaking about economic disasters...
And it is always the US who pushes for the "Soviets were sending soldiers into thousands into meatgrinder so they just could gain a single meter on the battlefield."
But they are somehow proud of Normandy landings were they literally did the same thing and their soldiers threw themselves on machineguns. Thats heroic, but same thing is eastern front, nah it's just stupid human wave tactics. Or fighting in unimportant island clusters. In the jungle and against entrenched Jap soldiers... who rarely gave up. How hard is to understand that Wehrmacht was very effective fighting force up until it's last days. I simply see no other way how You could defeat such combat hardened enemy without massive losses. Wehrmacht was restricted strategically thanks to their idiot Hitler, but tactically they had no equals. Quality of their officers, their training, new concepts born on battlefield, equipment tailored exactly for specific warfare, high mobility. I dare to say it was first modern army. Soviets were caught with their pants down with half cooked army and insignificant officer corps and they had no chance. Even if Soviet tanks and planes were on par or better than German. They had to fight how they could and by the end of the war Red Army was strongest army in the world.
well, its what i always said as well about the eastern front. here in Europe they act like the Allies pretty much crushed all the crack-toops of the Nazi's single-handed.
but any idiot going trough an actual history book notices that germany deployed their combat-ready forces to the eastern front as "they" or hitler actually, because some officers like Rommel expected some kind of attack from the north sea. anyway, what was left in Europe where a bunch of old men and kids or injured.
and about Normandy, its a bit of a grey zone and i still end up in plenty discussions about it. it was a freaking tactical nightmare. the Tanks got stuck in their Barges during Landing on the banks just outside the beach. the troops where sitting ducks on the beaches.
where the guys that died that day heroes?. i think we have to look in a mirror at ourselves and say yes, its not like they had a choice but to charge into suicide. was their Command incompetent to send the second waves?. yes they certainly where, one beach was not going to make much difference as soon the Shermans rolled on the beaches elsewhere.
i know about the "human waves" the Red Army send against the Nazi's at the time with the motto "the guy with the rifle dies, then you pick up his rifle and its your lucky day!". its hardly effective use of manpower and tactical strategy. but those kids mostly still died, they deserve that title too in my opinion.
however as i stated what is my objection today in "modern times" to this "needless sarcifice" of troops is that they are intentionally bred, selected for stupidity and indoctrination it seems. while there is no reason for it other than to satisfy the Pentagon Needs.
im not sure if Mike E or F-15E reads this, but this all is not meanth as a personal attack. but im willing to state openly here the U.S millitary has some serious problems with troop mentality and in extention Command and Control. and it just costs american lives that could have been avoided if common sense would prevail.
personally, ive stood at enough "ramp ceremony's". its how we call this "honour gaurd" saluting the dead that are loaded in the Plane. but take my word for it that when you see a coffin getting loaded up you do think about how he died, why he died, and who fucked up or if it was just "just combat". but more than once the leadership and training of troops where the guilty ones. and what propably irritates me still a lot is that back in the U.S it just get shoved under the carpet of "dying in the war against Terror" and no one asking second questions.
Airbornewolf wrote:im not sure if Mike E or F-15E reads this, but this all is not meanth as a personal attack. but im willing to state openly here the U.S millitary has some serious problems with troop mentality and in extention Command and Control. and it just costs american lives that could have been avoided if common sense would prevail.
Uhh, I'm not exactly pro-US or anything even close to that... There is no reason for me (would be) to be offended...
Hannibal Barca wrote:So one on one who you think is the best NATO army? Where would you rank USA etc?
US is the obvious answer, they are by far the largest force and could destroy NATO software from the inside out (they develop most of what NATO uses).
Airbornewolf wrote:im not sure if Mike E or F-15E reads this, but this all is not meanth as a personal attack. but im willing to state openly here the U.S millitary has some serious problems with troop mentality and in extention Command and Control. and it just costs american lives that could have been avoided if common sense would prevail.
Uhh, I'm not exactly pro-US or anything even close to that... There is no reason for me (would be) to be offended...
Hannibal Barca wrote:So one on one who you think is the best NATO army? Where would you rank USA etc?
US is the obvious answer, they are by far the largest force and could destroy NATO software from the inside out (they develop most of what NATO uses).
By quality of their equipment, I'd say Germany...
Sorry I meant with equal size and similar equipment. I used the mathematical definition of one-on-one not the conventional one
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