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    Russian Air-to-Air missiles

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    Austin
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Austin on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:44 am

    Well yes I did wishes that K-74M/RVV-MD had inflight retargetting and datalink features even though it still has some what older 2 colour seeker and not a FPA types

    indochina
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    How many types of R-27 ?

    Post  indochina on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:07 pm

    Why are there so many variations of R-27?:

    This is list !:

    R27
    R-27R
    R-27R1
    R-27T
    R-27P
    R-27T1
    R-27P1
    R-27EP1
    R-27T1
    R-27E1
    R-27ET1
    R-27ET
    R-27ER
    R-27RE
    R-27R1E
    R-27EP
    R-27PE1
    R-27PE
    R-27TE
    R-27ER1
    R-27EM
    R-27AE
    R-27EA

    The difference here is what?

    SOC
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  SOC on Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:27 pm

    R-27R: SARH
    R-27T: IR
    R-27AE: ARH
    R-27P: PRH

    R-27ER: the E means the longer burn rocket

    R-27TE: if after the guidance designator, the E means export model

    R-27T1: the 1 just means an incremental update. No different from saying AIM-120C-7, for example.

    Also, not all of these are actually in-service models, either.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  indochina on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:50 pm

    R-27P: PRH = passive radar homing ?

    TR1
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:00 pm

    indochina wrote:R-27P: PRH = passive radar homing ?

    Yep, this guy:

    http://i.flamber.ru/files/st2/1211922554/1251840467_o.jpg

    R-27EP. Always seemed like a beast to me. Any additional info on the weapon and its use are welcome.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:32 am

    If you want to be precise the PVO R-27s were not compatible with the Frontal Aviation R-27s and had different IFF codes and guidance algorythms for hitting larger heavier targets like bombers.

    Not sure about the codes given to them but there were also models of the R-27 specifically designed for the older generation fighters like the Mig-23-98 and Mig-21-98.

    They also had special variants of the R-27R and R-27ER for use over water by Mig-29K and Su-33 aircraft.


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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  indochina on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:51 am

    So the code R-27ER1, R-27EP1, R-27PE1, R-27R1E, R-27RE, R-27EA are models and do not exist in reality? Or is this just a mistake of the internet?

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:41 am

    R-27ER1 is a late model SARH long burn model of the Alamo and was in service for the 1990s and 00s of this century and is in service now... though the introduction of new and upgraded aircraft able to use R-77 will change this over time.

    R-27EP1 is the late model passive homing long burn model of Alamo and is also in service...

    R-27PE1 would be an exported passive model standard burn missile... unknown as to whether it was exported.

    R-27R1E exported Migs would use this standard burn export upgraded SARH missile.

    R-27RE would be missile sold with Warsaw Pact Mig-29s as standard BVR missile.

    R-27EA standard burn ARH model... reportedly developed but not in service AFAIK.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:48 am

    BTW I should point out that the Passive radar homing R-27s were intended for use against western aircraft launching Sparrows and similar SARH missiles.

    Say an F-15 detects a Mig-29 and immediately launches a Sparrow missile to intercept it... the Mig pilot can lock on an launch an R-27EP that tracks the radar signal from the F-15 painting the Mig and then launch their missile and turn... the large rocket motor of the EP gives it a higher flight speed than the Sparrow so unless there is a very long delay the R-27 should hit the F-15 before the Sparrow hits the Mig. If the F-15 spots the incoming missile and breaks their radar lock to manouver then both missiles will likely miss.
    They were in service in the 1990s yet kept secret all the 1990s.

    AFAIK they could not be used against ground targets...


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    mack8
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  mack8 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:52 pm

    I wonder if more knowledgeable folks can help me. I find it rather confusing to sort out the new generation R-73s. First, anyone knows what is the izdeliye number of the basic R-73?

    As of now there are 3 izdeliye numbers vehiculated. First the Izd. 740 apparently refers to the abortive upgrade in the nineties (K-74M/ME?). Next in line is the Izd. 750, which as shown above passed state tests October last year. My interpretation is that this missile is the domestic variant of RVV-MD (again K-74M like 740? the russians don't shy from using the same designation twice- is that the case here?), basically a re-modernization with current tech of the Izd. 740. Finally we have Izd.760, which should begin testing apparently in 2014-2015. THIS is supposedly the LOAL missile for PAK-FA and not 750 as alluded on some places the net, right?

    Now, am i anywhere close to the real story, or perhaps i've completely lost my mind? Thanks!

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    Russian air-to-air/ground missiles

    Post  Viktor on Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:13 pm

    Lots of new stuff will be coming out in the next few years as whole new generation of Russian air to air and air to ground missiles are being designed and revealed

    so from bastion-karpenko blog really interesting picture  Very Happy

    TR1 can you please translate the text


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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:48 pm

    Interesting, I'd love to see it translated.

    - I thought TR1 was gone...

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:42 pm

    Viktor wrote:Lots of new stuff will be coming out in the next few years as whole new generation of Russian air to air and air to ground missiles are being designed and revealed

    so from bastion-karpenko blog really interesting picture  Very Happy

    TR1 can you please translate the text



    Comperision criterias of the new guided Air-to-Air missiles RVV-BD with R-33E rockets.


    Missile can not only be used on hardpoints launching units AKU-401-1 beneath fuselage of MiG-31E but also under launching units AKU-620 for all kind of Sukhoi and MiG jets.


    Launching distance of missile RVV-BD compared with R-33E is about 2 times greater.

    The RVV-BD missile uses a new guiding system.

    The missile implements a modern digital active radar homing warhead which provides real time principe of "fire and forget" capability.

    High precision inertial guidance due use of laser gyroscope.

    Line of radiocorrection can be provided from launching plattform by providing coordinates of the target to enhance fire solution in advance of engagement for maximum engagement range.

    2 times higher gforce of the engaged target

    I think it is good enough to understand, but not perfect.

    TR1
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:18 pm

    Hi Viktor,

    Werewolf translated it all correctly.

    mack8
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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  mack8 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:44 pm

    Could that be taken as confirmation that Su-35 can carry 4 RVV-BD? 200km range, active radar seeker, 8g capability, quite a headache to any potential opponent. Smile

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:28 pm

    mack8 wrote:Could that be taken as confirmation that Su-35 can carry 4 RVV-BD? 200km range, active radar seeker, 8g capability, quite a headache to any potential opponent. Smile


    If China or another nation will do not place an order of Su-35 or any international buyer will order MiG-31E we will not see confirmed any aircraft equiped with RVV-BD (the same was obviosuly true for R-33E).

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:16 am

    mack8 wrote:Could that be taken as confirmation that Su-35 can carry 4 RVV-BD? 200km range, active radar seeker, 8g capability, quite a headache to any potential opponent. Smile

    This is an export model. Domestic one probably goes even further.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  medo on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:34 pm

    I know, they test in past a missile (R-37) with 300 km range. Is RVV-BD the same missile? I'm sure this missile will be as well in armament of PAK-FA and Su-30SM, not only for Su-35 and MiG-31BM.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Mike E on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:39 pm

    medo wrote:I know, they test in past a missile (R-37) with 300 km range. Is RVV-BD the same missile? I'm sure this missile will be as well in armament of PAK-FA and Su-30SM, not only for Su-35 and MiG-31BM.

    The RVV-BD does have a 200 km range, domestic models are said to be 300+ km.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  mack8 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:25 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    mack8 wrote:Could that be taken as confirmation that Su-35 can carry 4 RVV-BD? 200km range, active radar seeker, 8g capability, quite a headache to any potential opponent. Smile

    This is an export model. Domestic one probably goes even further.

    Indeed, the domestic model will probably be called R-37M and should equip MiG-31BM and maybe Su-35S no? How about Su-30SM, can't see any reason why it shouldn't carry it too, the radar certainly has the range?

    I know, they test in past a missile (R-37) with 300 km range. Is RVV-BD the same missile? I'm sure this missile will be as well in armament of PAK-FA and Su-30SM, not only for Su-35 and MiG-31BM.

    Pretty sure RVV-BD/K-37M/R-37M is a thoroughly up to date version of R-37 tested in early nineties.

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    X-25ML autonomous guidance?

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:18 pm

    The question is like above, is the X-25ML completley autonomous in its guidance and does not need any special software to be operated by aircrafts?

    The reason i ask is because the X-25 missile can be launched from APU-68UM3 racks which are available for all russian helicopters and the missile where ever i've watched for information it is claimed it has selfguidance autonomous seeker, which should give it all necessary capabilities to lockon targets without specific software on the launching plattform to do so.

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    Air-to-Air Missiles : How long are their shelf life?

    Post  RTN on Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:53 am

    What is the typical shelf life of an air to air missile, for example the R-77?

    After the expiry of their shelf life are they "recycled"? In other words simply replace the guidance kit coz I guess the warhead need not have to be changed.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Mike E on Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:07 am

    RTN wrote:What is the typical shelf life of an air to air missile, for example the R-77?

    After the expiry of their shelf life are they "recycled"? In other words simply replace the guidance kit coz I guess the warhead need not have to be changed.
    Good question.... Due to the vast majority of them using solid-fuel, the lifespan should primarily rely on the fuels' lifespan (probably over 30 years if not more).

    The electronics inside should last forever given they are protected properly. 

    Warheads never need changing AFAIK.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:21 am

    I would guess about the same or near same shelf life of modern IIR/CCD ATGM's which have a shelf life of around 15-20 years.

    The worst thing for electronics and seeker is if they would be constantly fed by the internal batterie because the life of it would decrease to less than few hours at least of some internals.

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    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Mike E on Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:24 am

    Werewolf wrote:I would guess about the same or near same shelf life of modern IIR/CCD ATGM's which have a shelf life of around 15-20 years.

    The worst thing for electronics and seeker is if they would be constantly fed by the internal batterie because the life of it would decrease to less than few hours at least of some internals.
    Hmm... What do you think would be the first to go?

    My guess would be the battery as you mentioned, but those are probably the easiest parts to replace.

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