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    Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:57 pm

    What doe this mean Militarov? I am not knowledgeable around the Libyan affairs.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:00 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:What doe this mean Militarov? I am not knowledgeable around the Libyan affairs.

    Doesnt mean much actually, but check number of stamps on the document. Each one is different "militia" and its only in region of Misrata.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:56 am

    Regrets of a Revolution? Libya After Qaddafi

    In Muammar Qaddafi’s Libya, people used to say, “We had one enemy.” Today, “people don’t know who their enemy is.”

    That is how Magda Mughrabi, a Libya researcher for Amnesty International, described the current situation in Libya. “There are potentially tens or hundreds of enemies, because of the myriad of armed groups,” Mughrabi said.

    Four years after Arab Spring protests turned into an armed uprising that led to the overthrow and death of the former strongman, Libya is torn between two governments and dozens of militias and armed groups. Like many of their Middle Eastern neighbors in 2011, Libyans protested against a dictator hoping for more political freedom and an end to the Qaddafi regime’s repressive four-decade-long reign. However, life for the average Libyan today, in some ways, has become more dangerous and unstable than it was under Qaddafi, according to experts.

    “Libya today — in spite of the expectations we had at the time of the revolution — it’s much, much worse,” said Karim Mezran, resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Rafik Hariri Center for the Middle East. “Criminality is skyrocketing. Insecurity is pervasive. There are no jobs. It’s hard to get food and electricity. There’s fighting, there’s fear… I see very few bright spots.”

    While Libya was able to hold elections in 2012, the government that emerged was never able to control the numerous militias and armed groups that gained power during the uprising, and skirmishes continued.

    Fighting intensified in May 2014, when a renegade general, Khalifa Haftar, launched an assault on the Islamist militias operating in the city of Benghazi. One month later, Libyans frustrated with the Islamist-dominated General National Congress (GNC) and its inability to bring stability elected a new legislative body — the internationally-recognized House of Representatives. Now, each of Libya’s rival parliaments is roughly aligned with armed actors, with Haftar and his “Operation Dignity” fighters supporting the House of Representatives based in the northeastern city of Tobruk, while “Libya Dawn,” an umbrella term that includes Islamist militias and revolutionaries who battled Qaddafi, supports the GNC, based in Tripoli in the northwest.

    The fight has only grown more complicated in recent months, as many of these groups have fragmented over time, and several other local militias and tribal fighters fight for control within the country. Added to this mix are groups like Ansar al Sharia, suspected of being behind the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi in 2012, and a Libyan affiliate of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, which now controls Qaddafi’s home town of Sirte.

    In all, an estimated 1,700 armed groups and militias are active in Libya, according to a recent report from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

    “People don’t feel safe, because the law doesn’t protect them anymore,” Mughrabi said, describing a situation in which police stations are either not operational or are too frightened to intervene. Meanwhile, people can use militias that they have a personal connection with to settle scores.

    Mughrabi said courts have also come under attack by armed groups, as have many attorneys, especially when they represented clients thought to be Qaddafi supporters.

    “It’s really the rule of militias and armed groups, as opposed to the rule of law,” she said.

    More than 4,600 people have died in the fighting since the beginning of 2014, according the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project, a group that monitors violence using media reports.

    Some of the worst damage from the fighting is in Benghazi, where many buildings in the city’s center have been reduced to rubble. “The level of destruction, apart from Benghazi, is maybe not one that captures the world’s imagination,” Mughrabi said, but “the fear that it creates is massive.”

    That fear has driven at least 435,000 Libyans from their homes to elsewhere in the country, according to the United Nations, although officials say the true total is likely higher. Libyans reported that a third of those displaced within the country were living in “precarious” accommodations, including unfinished buildings, garages, collective shelters or public spaces, according to an assessment carried out by the U.N. in August.

    The U.N. estimates 2.44 million people — about a third of Libya’s population — have been affected by the fighting, which has led to shortages of food, water, electricity and medical supplies and reduced access to health care and public services. As of June, an estimated 2.5 million Libyans needed access to health services, according to the U.N., and around 400,000 required food aid.

    Quality of life and access to basic services also depends on where you live in Libya. While the security situation in Libya’s capital, Tripoli, is worse off than it was five years ago, it is still more stable than cities like Benghazi, experts say.

    For example, while a majority of Libyans interviewed by the U.N. in August said school-age children were able to access formal education in their communities, Benghazi’s enrollment rate had dropped 50 percent since fighting intensified in 2014.

    “Libyans are incredibly disenchanted with life,” said Frederic Wehrey, a senior associate of the Carnegie Endowment’s Middle East program.

    Wehrey, who has made multiple trips to Libya since the revolution, said that many there have become so frustrated by insecurity and instability that they have expressed regret about taking part in the revolution. Some have even wished for a return to the relative stability of Qaddafi’s rule.

    Such sentiments should be “taken with a grain of salt” he said, adding, “You could walk down the streets at night under Qaddafi, but it was the peace of the graveyard.”

    The revival of political life in some pockets of Libya is one improvement from the Qaddafi years, according to observers. With the central government practically non-existent, Wehrey said the towns and cities that have managed to function are those where Libyans have come up with local solutions.

    “In the realm of politics, there is more freedom,” Mezran added, “more people who can talk, more who can demonstrate, more who are participating in politics. That’s the only bright spot, probably.”

    Libyans must now pin their hopes for stability, slim as they are, on a U.N.-brokered peace agreement that calls for a unity government made up of officials from both parliaments. The deal calls for a cease-fire and disarming the various militias and armed groups, but yet to be determined is how it would be enforced.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/my-brothers-bomber/regrets-of-a-revolution-libya-after-qaddafi/


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:47 pm

    Egyptian President Urges NATO to Take Part in Libya Reconciliation

    Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Sisi has called NATO member countries to take part in Libyan reconciliation.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Sisi has called Britain and other NATO member countries to take part in reconciliation of the political situation in Libya, the Telegraph newspaper reported Tuesday.

    “We must support all efforts to help the Libyan people and the Libyan economy. We need to stop the flow of funds and weapons and foreign fighters to the extremists. All the members of Nato – including Britain – who took part in the mission to overthrow Gaddafi need to give their help," Sisi said in an interview with the Telegraph.

    According to Sisi, NATO's mission in Libya was not completed, therefore, Libya was left without necessary leadership.

    Libya has been in a state of turmoil since early 2011 after the Arab Spring protests led to a civil war and the overthrow of long-time leader Muammar Gaddafi following a US-led military mission.

    The country has been ruled by the two rival governments: the internationally recognized Council of Deputies based in Tobruk and the Tripoli-based General National Congress.

    In early July, political parties and the internationally recognized parliament of Libya signed a framework agreement in the Moroccan city of Skhirat, distributing powers in the country.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151104/1029563065/fattah-sisi-urges-nato-libya-reconciliation.html#ixzz3qWgZTVav


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Dima on Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:07 pm

    Its a good and must read, most of us probably would have understood it early itself that Western MSM was just demonizing Gaddafi and who ever they disliked for not being their vassals, but such info/articles always come very very late on the scene.

    Libya: From Africa’s Wealthiest Democracy Under Gaddafi to Terrorist Haven After US Intervention
    October 20, 2015
    Tuesday marks the four-year anniversary of the US-backed assassination of Libya’s former leader, Muammar Gaddafi, and the decline into chaos of one of Africa’s greatest nations.

    In 1967 Colonel Gaddafi inherited one of the poorest nations in Africa; by the time he was assassinated, he had transformed Libya into Africa’s richest nation. Prior to the US-led bombing campaign in 2011, Libya had the highest Human Development Index, the lowest infant mortality and the highest life expectancy in all of Africa.

    Today, Libya is a failed state. Western military intervention has caused all of the worst-scenarios: Western embassies have all left, the South of the country has become a haven for ISIS terrorists, and the Northern coast a center of migrant trafficking. Egypt, Algeria and Tunisia have all closed their borders with Libya. This all occurs amidst a backdrop of widespread rape, assassinations and torture that complete the picture of a state that is failed to the bone.

    Libya currently has two competing governments, two parliaments, two sets of rivaling claims to control over the central bank and the national oil company, no functioning national police or army, and the United States now believes that ISIS is running training camps across large swathes of the country.

    On one side, in the West of the nation, Islamist-allied militias took over control of the capital Tripoli and other key cities and set up their own government, chasing away a parliament that was previously elected.

    On the other side, in the East of the nation, the “legitimate” government dominated by anti-Islamist politicians, exiled 1,200 kilometers away in Tobruk, no longer governs anything. Laughing  The democracy which Libyans were promised by Western governments after the fall of Colonel Gaddafi has all but vanished.

    Contrary to popular belief, Libya, which western media routinely described as “Gaddafi’s military dictatorship” was in actual fact one of the world’s most democratic States.

    Under Gaddafi’s unique system of direct democracy, traditional institutions of government were disbanded and abolished, and power belonged to the people directly through various committees and congresses.

    Far from control being in the hands of one man, Libya was highly decentralized and divided into several small communities that were essentially “mini-autonomous States” within a State. These autonomous States had control over their districts and could make a range of decisions including how to allocate oil revenue and budgetary funds. Within these mini autonomous States, the three main bodies of Libya’s democracy were Local Committees, Basic People’s Congresses and Executive Revolutionary Councils.

    The Basic People’s Congress (BPC), or Mu’tamar shaʿbi asāsi was essentially Libya’s functional equivalent of the House of Commons in the United Kingdom or the House of Representatives in the United States. However, Libya’s People’s Congress was not comprised merely of elected representatives who discussed and proposed legislation on behalf of the people; rather, the Congress allowed all Libyans to directly participate in this process. Eight hundred People’s Congresses were set up across the country and all Libyans were free to attend and shape national policy and make decisions over all major issues including budgets, education, industry, and the economy.

    In 2009, Mr. Gaddafi invited the New York Times to Libya to spend two weeks observing the nation’s direct democracy. The New York Times, that has traditionally been highly critical of Colonel Gaddafi’s democratic experiment, conceded that in Libya, the intention was that “everyone is involved in every decision…Tens of thousands of people take part in local committee meetings to discuss issues and vote on everything from foreign treaties to building schools.”

    The fundamental difference between western democratic systems and the Libyan Jamahiriya’s direct democracy is that in Libya all citizens were allowed to voice their views directly – not in one parliament of only a few hundred wealthy politicians – but in hundreds of committees attended by tens of thousands of ordinary citizens. Far from being a military dictatorship, Libya under Mr. Gaddafi was Africa’s most prosperous democracy.

    On numerous occasions Mr. Gaddafi’s proposals were rejected by popular vote during Congresses and the opposite was approved and enacted as legislation.

    For instance, on many occasions Mr. Gaddafi proposed the abolition of capital punishment and he pushed for home schooling over traditional schools. However, the People’s Congresses wanted to maintain the death penalty and classic schools, and the will of the People’s Congresses prevailed. Similarly, in 2009, Colonel Gaddafi put forward a proposal to essentially abolish the central government altogether and give all the oil proceeds directly to each family. The People’s Congresses rejected this idea too.

    For over four decades, Gaddafi promoted economic democracy and used the nationalized oil wealth to sustain progressive social welfare programs for all Libyans. Under Gaddafi’s rule, Libyans enjoyed not only free health-care and free education, but also free electricity and interest-free loans. Now thanks to NATO’s intervention the health-care sector is on the verge of collapse as thousands of Filipino health workers flee the country, institutions of higher education across the East of the country are shut down, and black outs are a common occurrence in once thriving Tripoli.

    Unlike in the West, Libyans did not vote once every four years for a President and an invariably wealthy local parliamentarian who would then make all decisions for them. Ordinary Libyans made decisions regarding foreign, domestic and economic policy themselves.

    America’s bombing campaign of 2011 has not only destroyed the infrastructure of Libya’s democracy, America has also actively promoted ISIS terror group leader Abdelhakim Belhadj whose organization is making the establishment of Libyan democracy impossible.

    The fact that the United States has a long and torrid history of backing terrorist groups in North Africa and the Middle East will surprise only those who watch the news and ignore history.

    The CIA first aligned itself with extremist Islam during the Cold War era. Back then, America saw the world in rather simple terms: on one side the Soviet Union and Third World nationalism, which America regarded as a Soviet tool; on the other side Western nations and extremist political Islam, which America considered an ally in the struggle against the Soviet Union.

    Since then America has used the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt against Soviet expansion, the Sarekat Islam against Sukarno in Indonesia and the Jamaat-e-Islami terror group against Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in Pakistan. Last but certainly not least there is Al-Qaeda.

    Lest we forget, the CIA gave birth to Osama Bin Laden and breastfed his organization throughout the 1980’s. Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that Al Qaeda was unquestionably a product of western intelligence agencies. Mr. Cook explained that Al Qaeda, which literally means “the base” in Arabic, was originally the computer database of the thousands of Islamist extremists who were trained by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan. The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq.

    ISIS is metastasizing at an alarming rate in Libya, under the leadership of one Abdelhakim Belhadj. Fox News recently admitted that Mr. Belhadj “was once courted by the Obama administration and members of Congress” and he was a staunch ally of the United States in the quest to topple Gaddafi. In 2011, the United States and Senator McCain hailed Belhadj as a “heroic freedom fighter” and Washington gave his organization arms and logistical support. Now Senator McCain has called Belhadj’s organization ISIS, “probably the biggest threat to America and everything we stand for.”

    Under Gaddafi, Islamic terrorism was virtually non existent and in 2009 the US State Department called Libya “an important ally in the war on terrorism”.

    Today, after US intervention, Libya is home to the world’s largest loose arms cache, and its porous borders are routinely transited by a host of heavily armed non-state actors including Tuareg separatists, jihadists who forced Mali’s national military from Timbuktu and increasingly ISIS militiamen led by former US ally Abdelhakim Belhadj.

    Clearly, Gaddafi’s system of economic and direct democracy was one of the 21st century’s most profound democratic experiments and NATO’s bombardment of Libya may indeed go down in history as one of the greatest military failures of the 21st century.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:00 pm



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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:18 pm

    Folks/tribes of toppled regimes using IS to get revenge. How's this news?



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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:47 pm

    Did you notice how easily "secular" guys from fallen regimes turn into Islamists?

    You can see that in Iraq too, where Saddam's guys turned into emirs of ISIS.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:02 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Did you notice how easily "secular" guys from fallen regimes turn into Islamists?

    You can see that in Iraq too, where Saddam's guys turned into emirs of ISIS.

    Nope, the Guys from Saddam had their own thing going since the 90's. But they were never ISIS vs the US. They have and will be having their own little outfit in Iraq.
    Same for Libya, Mali or CAR. ISIS/AQ in the auxiliary force that gets the rep, but in Sirte, the dudes are as much in smuggling and drinking as they ever where.


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:36 am

    i wonder why western countries dont do sth in Libya against ISIS. Especially France and Italy that are being affected by the outcomes of the crisis in Libya. After all we talk for only 5.000 fighters


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:46 am

    George1 wrote:i wonder why western countries dont do sth in Libya against ISIS. Especially France and Italy that are being affected by the outcomes of the crisis in Libya. After all we talk for only 5.000 fighters
    It would be an admission of failure, of 2011 being nothing more than a crude use of force to cause totaly unecessary regime change. This is why in another thread I have suggested that Egypt wake up and if necessary invade Libya to restore order as Vietnam had to in Cambodia.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:39 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder why western countries dont do sth in Libya against ISIS. Especially France and Italy that are being affected by the outcomes of the crisis in Libya. After all we talk for only 5.000 fighters
    It would be an admission of failure, of 2011 being nothing more than a crude use of force to cause totaly unecessary regime change. This is why in another thread I have suggested that Egypt wake up and if necessary invade Libya to restore order as Vietnam had to in Cambodia.

    How is that failure? The goal for the people who started Libya was't only the rule of unintended consequences, nope it was worse. It was to create more beggar states that would allow them a double goal.

    1. Create the need for intervention in the future, just like George1 stated.
    2. Create the premises for a tightening of state control because...blowback effect.

    Don't forget, the people who gain from this, will never be hurt by ISIS or other terrorists. They can scamper off whenever they need to.

    Actually, i used to buy the whole idea that it was a miscalculation. But given how fast the French caught up with "the ugly american way" and got their own Patriot act in the making, that January attacks sped up, something was already on the brewster.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:14 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder why western countries dont do sth in Libya against ISIS. Especially France and Italy that are being affected by the outcomes of the crisis in Libya. After all we talk for only 5.000 fighters
    It would be an admission of failure, of 2011 being nothing more than a crude use of force to cause totaly unecessary regime change. This is why in another thread I have suggested that Egypt wake up and if necessary invade Libya to restore order as Vietnam had to in Cambodia.

    How is that failure? The goal for the people who started Libya was't only the rule of unintended consequences, nope it was worse. It was to create more beggar states that would allow them a double goal.

    1. Create the need for intervention in the future, just like George1 stated.
    2. Create the premises for a tightening of state control because...blowback effect.

    Don't forget, the people who gain from this, will never be hurt by ISIS or other terrorists. They can scamper off whenever they need to.

    Actually, i used to buy the whole idea that it was  a miscalculation. But given how fast the French caught up with "the ugly american way" and got their own Patriot act in the making, that January attacks sped up, something was already on the brewster.
    Western intervention in Libya now would be an admission of failure in the terms they portrayed their 2011 intervention to their public, as removing a "tyrant" and bring "peace and democracy". Of course it was in fact a partial success in what Washington wanted to achieve in that they removed Gaddafi, but do not control Libya as they only created chaos.

    If the West bombed Libya again, how could it not be seen by their populations as an admission that 2011 was a failure?

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:32 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder why western countries dont do sth in Libya against ISIS. Especially France and Italy that are being affected by the outcomes of the crisis in Libya. After all we talk for only 5.000 fighters
    It would be an admission of failure, of 2011 being nothing more than a crude use of force to cause totaly unecessary regime change. This is why in another thread I have suggested that Egypt wake up and if necessary invade Libya to restore order as Vietnam had to in Cambodia.

    How is that failure? The goal for the people who started Libya was't only the rule of unintended consequences, nope it was worse. It was to create more beggar states that would allow them a double goal.

    1. Create the need for intervention in the future, just like George1 stated.
    2. Create the premises for a tightening of state control because...blowback effect.

    Don't forget, the people who gain from this, will never be hurt by ISIS or other terrorists. They can scamper off whenever they need to.

    Actually, i used to buy the whole idea that it was  a miscalculation. But given how fast the French caught up with "the ugly american way" and got their own Patriot act in the making, that January attacks sped up, something was already on the brewster.
    Western intervention in Libya now would be an admission of failure in the terms they portrayed their 2011 intervention to their public, as removing a "tyrant" and bring "peace and democracy". Of course it was in fact a partial success in what Washington wanted to achieve in that they removed Gaddafi, but do not control Libya as they only created chaos.

    If the West bombed Libya again, how could it not be seen by their populations as an admission that 2011 was a failure?

    Because their goal wasn't at all to bring peace and democracy or stability. Just like the goal of Operation Pelican wasn't to stabilize Albania, just conduct arms smuggling in Kosovo. The hell you think you're talking about here? Africa is just a plaything, it has always been, will always be. They're pulling the same kind of shit like in the early 19th century, with the same kind of shitty arguments. Even down to freaking pirates.

    The first and foremost goal was to remove a player that would hinder the efforts in MENA area, one of those efforts was to spread reasons to involve Africom.
    Guess what...Khaddaffi goes dead, people with his looted weapons turn places like CAR and Mali into hell holes and then In come both the US and France. Same stash of weapons then goes to whoever wants them, FSA/AQ in Sham, Nigeria and Yemen.

    For the long game, Libya was such a success. Resounding success. Who cares about civil war there. It's come to a point that the US military can't hide their 'frustration' with the political leadership. To the point that when Political USA says something their military is like WTF man that's false.

    And it will go like this until they step into a big pile of crap either in South China Sea or Central Asia (now that the Ukraine BS, got derailed).

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:06 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Because their goal wasn't at all to bring peace and democracy or stability. Just like the goal of Operation Pelican wasn't to stabilize Albania, just conduct arms smuggling in Kosovo. The hell you think you're talking about here? Africa is just a plaything, it has always been, will always be. They're pulling the same kind of shit like in the early 19th century, with the same kind of shitty arguments. Even down to freaking pirates.

    The first and foremost goal was to remove a player that would hinder the efforts in MENA area, one of those efforts was to spread reasons to involve Africom.
    Guess what...Khaddaffi goes dead, people with his looted weapons turn places like CAR and Mali into hell holes and then In come both the US and France. Same stash of weapons then goes to whoever wants them, FSA/AQ in Sham, Nigeria and Yemen.

    For the long game, Libya was such a success. Resounding success. Who cares about civil war there. It's come to a point that the US military can't hide their 'frustration' with the political leadership. To the point that when Political USA says something their military is like WTF man that's false.

    And it will go like this until they step into a big pile of crap either in South China Sea or Central Asia (now that the Ukraine BS, got derailed).
    Yes that is all correct, but the question was why the West does not bomb Libya now, or even seem to ever mention Libya these days. For them to bomb Libya again would be questioned by their own populations, most of whom do not care for geopolitics, only that "their guys" risk their lives on bombing missions, missions that could not be explained to them in a manner that would convince anybody with at least average IQ that 2011 has not "saved" them from a nightmare, only made it worse, in other words, in the terms of reference used by the West for their own populations against Gaddafi, a failure.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:12 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Because their goal wasn't at all to bring peace and democracy or stability. Just like the goal of Operation Pelican wasn't to stabilize Albania, just conduct arms smuggling in Kosovo. The hell you think you're talking about here? Africa is just a plaything, it has always been, will always be. They're pulling the same kind of shit like in the early 19th century, with the same kind of shitty arguments. Even down to freaking pirates.

    The first and foremost goal was to remove a player that would hinder the efforts in MENA area, one of those efforts was to spread reasons to involve Africom.
    Guess what...Khaddaffi goes dead, people with his looted weapons turn places like CAR and Mali into hell holes and then In come both the US and France. Same stash of weapons then goes to whoever wants them, FSA/AQ in Sham, Nigeria and Yemen.

    For the long game, Libya was such a success. Resounding success. Who cares about civil war there. It's come to a point that the US military can't hide their 'frustration' with the political leadership. To the point that when Political USA says something their military is like WTF man that's false.

    And it will go like this until they step into a big pile of crap either in South China Sea or Central Asia (now that the Ukraine BS, got derailed).
    Yes that is all correct, but the question was why the West does not bomb Libya now, or even seem to ever mention Libya these days. For them to bomb Libya again would be questioned by their own populations, most of whom do not care for geopolitics, only that "their guys" risk their lives on bombing missions, missions that could not be explained to them in a manner that would convince anybody with at least average IQ that 2011 has not "saved" them from a nightmare, only made it worse, in other words, in the terms of reference used by the West for their own populations against Gaddafi, a failure.

    Yes, if you believed their rationale, off course, but as I know you, you're way past that mumbo-jumbo. I'm sure that like me you can't believe that statistical anomaly "gumanitarian intervention" explanation can be used like 8 times in half a decade. At least France with Timbuktu, used UNESCO heritage in danger card...

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:39 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Yes, if you believed their rationale, off course, but as I know you, you're way past that mumbo-jumbo. I'm sure that like me you can't believe that statistical anomaly "gumanitarian intervention" explanation can be used like 8 times in half a decade. At least France with Timbuktu, used UNESCO heritage in danger card...
    I think we both at times "overthink" some of these issues and mix the real reality with the politicians "reality" and so the original question does in fact have two totaly contradictory answers, but both correct depending on the terms of reference. Shrodinger's cat at work here Smile

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:47 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Yes, if you believed their rationale, off course, but as I know you, you're way past that mumbo-jumbo. I'm sure that like me you can't believe that statistical anomaly "gumanitarian intervention" explanation can be used like 8 times in half a decade. At least France with Timbuktu, used UNESCO heritage in danger card...
    I think we both at times "overthink" some of these issues and mix the real reality with the politicians "reality" and so the original question does in fact have two totaly contradictory answers, but both correct depending on the terms of reference. Shrodinger's cat at work here Smile

    Well, the "like" button is gone...

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:00 pm

    France Conducts Intelligence Flight Over Daesh-Controlled Parts of Libya

    France has carried out reconnaissance and intelligence flights over Libya in the areas controlled by Daesh, also known as ISIL or Islamic State terrorist group.

    The French military plans to continue to conduct similar missions over the North African country, a presidential press document released on Friday said.

    Two missions were carried out on Nov. 20 and 21 around the towns of Sirte and Tobruk. "Other intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance flights are also planned," the document showed.

    The missions would be the first time Paris has publicly admitted to conducting operations over Daesh zones in Libya. Sirte is controlled by Daesh.

    France is part of a coalition of 65 countries that participate in the bombing of Daesh targets in Iraq and Syria. The coalition is acting without the permission of local Syrian authorities.

    Paris started a more intensive bombing campaign in Syria and sent an aircraft carrier to the region after a series of terrorist attacks in Paris left 130 people killed and more than 350 injured on November 13.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151204/1031262220/france-military-flights-libya-isil.html#ixzz3tO7LiuP0


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:57 pm

    Dispute Over Libya’s Form of Gov't Delays Adopting New Constitution

    Disagreements over the form of government in Libya are slowing down the process of finishing drafting a new constitution, Ali Tarhouni, President of the Constituent Assembly of Libya, a body to draft a new constitution for the country, told Sputnik on Tuesday.

    AL BAYDA (Libya) (Sputnik) — According to the committee president, its members also cannot agree on matters relating to women's rights, acquiring Libyan citizenship and the country’s Arab identity, as well as issues regarding resources and local governments.

    "[Among divisive issues] is the form of government in Libya, as some believe that Libya should be a federal state structure, others are calling for a return to the monarchy. Some require a return to the constitution of 1951, other groups reject these positions," Tarhouni said.

    The Constituent Assembly of Libya has decided to study the laws of neighboring states for the experience in formulating its own constitution:

    "[We have studied] the experience of Egypt and Tunisia, which have developed their constitutions under different circumstances, which are stable states without division, with power, security, army and a stable life".

    The two rival parliaments in Libya signed a power-sharing deal in Tunisia on Sunday after two days of secret talks, bypassing a deal proposed by the United Nations.

    The document obtained by foreign news services requires a future prime minister to have two deputies, one from each of the two warring factions.

    Tarhouni stressed the difference between Libya and neighboring North African countries does not preclude foreign experience from contributing to Libya’s own founding document.

    "We held numerous workshops in Egypt, Tunisia and Lebanon. We were able to meet with many experts in this area, hold discussions with them and examine their experience," Tarhouni added.

    Libya has been in a state of turmoil since early 2011, when Arab Spring protests led to a civil war and the overthrow of long-time leader Muammar Gaddafi.

    The country is currently divided between two conflicting governments — the internationally recognized Council of Deputies, based in Tobruk, and the self-proclaimed General National Congress, based in the Libyan capital, Tripoli.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151208/1031401959/libya-new-constitution-draft.html#ixzz3tjXmk3qI


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:25 am

    Terrorism Antidote: Libya Mulls Requesting Russia for Anti-Daesh Airstrikes

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/africa/20151221/1032106968/libya-russia-daesh-airstrikes.html#ixzz3v2XkhBmX


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  Solncepek on Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:58 pm

    Daesh Strength in Libya Grows to Nearly 5,000 Fighters

    09:37 27.12.2015(updated 09:49 27.12.2015)

    Libya, which is undergoing its second civil war in less than half a decade, has become the next country after Iraq and Syria to be targeted by Daesh terrorists for expansion.

    Around 5,000 Daesh (also known as ISIL/ISIS) militants are now thought to be fighting in Libya, the country's interior minister said on Saturday, as cited by the Iranian news agency FARS.

    After a civil war in which NATO-backed rebels ousted long-time leader Muammar Gadhafi in 2011, Libya failed to transition to another stable government, which led to another civil war in 2014, although negotiations are underway which may bring an end to the conflict. Daesh has taken advantage of the situation, capturing territory around the coastal town of Sirte, between the territories held by the conflict's two main warring sides.

    'Most of the ISIL militants are foreigners and from Northern African countries,' Tunisian interior Ministry spokesman Walid al-Vaqini said, as quoted by FARS.

    In early 2015, the terrorist group infamously beheaded 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians on a Mediterranean beach.

    Although Tunisia has been one of the few countries where mass uprisings in 2011 led to a stable government, it has been one of the biggest sources of foreign jihadist fighters for the Syrian and Libyan conflicts. Two terrorist attacks struck Tunisian tourist sites in the summer of 2015, killing a total of 59 tourists in a country that relies on tourism for much of its revenue.

    The ministry's security chief added that the ministry recently prevented another major terrorist attack, arresting 17 Daesh fighters, some of whom had experience in Syria and Libya.

    'We have foiled a major attack this month that the terrorist cell was preparing against vital installations, hotels, security centers and against politicians to bring chaos to the country,' Interior Ministry Security Chief Rafik Chelli said.

    Al-Vaqini claimed that only 1,600 Tunisians are fighting for Daesh in Syria; 600 have returned to Tunisia and another 800 were killed in the conflict. He did not give an estimate of the number of Tunisians fighting in Libya.

    © Sputnik

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:09 pm

    Libyan Forces in Benghazi Besiege Group Which Killed US Ambassador

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/africa/20160104/1032676115/libya-benghazi-siege.html#ixzz3wJAo0q00


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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  HUNTER VZLA on Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:29 am

    In Libya you can fill up your T-55 in a gas station











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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:28 pm

    libya is the real battleground now. ISIS is focusing heavily here and this is their "breakout" region to grow their empire in.

    whilst all eyes are on their decrepit, poor, landlocked regions in syria and shrinking base in iraq... isis are building up Libya, yemen somalia and other maritime connected regions with oil and other wealth as well as a more ammeable populace to build their empire in.

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    Re: Libyan Civil War (2014–present)

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