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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:05 am

    Gazputin wrote:personally I think just because the Saturn 5 was huge... doesn't mean it was right
    to me it was ridiculous
    what did they do with that fn great rocket after the Moon wanks ? …. nothing
    it had no secondary purpose at all …

    it makes eminently more sense to me to launch components and assemble them in Earth's orbit on "sane sized" rockets at a space station

    so my point is this ….
    who cares if the astronauts launch from Baikonur … ? on a Soyuz-5 ….

    and Vostochny which will have the space freighter the Angara A-5 (non-human rated) sending up the bulk of the components … before hand
    why do they need to drill a new bigger tunnel ? at all ?

    some of the upper stages currently used on Soyuz at Vostochny are flown in already …
    and lets face it most of the satellites will always be flown in too ….

    I'd be amazed if the Soyuz-5 based "Super rocket" pad  "planned" for Vostochny  is ever built ….
    and if they need for some reason to get astronauts into orbit from Vostochny they've always got the Soyuz-2 pad …

    if you have an orbiting "assembly" plant …. who needs a "super rocket" ? … for what  ?
    I don't buy it ...


    The Soyuz 5 is the same modular concept as the Angara. The era of Saturn V and Energia "all or nothing" designs is over.
    They are pointlessly expensive and as you note, have no other use. Modular rockets are composed of high volume modules
    that serve all sorts of delivery roles and thus are much cheaper based on economies of scale. The difference between the
    Soyuz 5 and Angara is that the modules of the former are larger and more powerful. But these Zenit-like modules will be
    used as Zenit replacements and so the economies of scale are in play. Russia can afford to modular rocket designs and more.
    Its poverty is mostly propaganda sponsored from NATO and its 5th column.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:50 pm

    Russia’s Soyuz-6 to become prototype of super heavy rocket’s second stage — Roscosmos

    https://tass.com/science/1077762
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    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:05 pm

    Russia’s Khrunichev center to make 11 Proton-M rockets before their production stops

    Four rockets have been in production, seven more will be complete in 2020-2021

    MOSCOW, September 17. /TASS/. Russia’s Khrunichev Center will manufacture 11 more Proton-M carrier rockets before their production is stopped and the project is closed, the center’s Director General Alexei Varochko told TASS on Tuesday.

    "According to the current plan, the Khrunichev Center is to manufacture 11 rockets, four of them are already in production, seven more will be ready in 2020-2021," he said.

    Roscosmos chief Dmitry Rogozin said on the sidelines of the forum Army-2018 that the manufacturing of Proton-M rockets will cease in 2020-2021. The rockets will be in use until 2025. All subsequent launches will be carried out by the Angara family of rockets, because it is more environmentally friendly.


    https://tass.com/science/1078462
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    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:12 am

    Super heavy space rocket complex draft design approved

    November 1, 2019 at PJSC Rocket and Space Corporation Energia named after S.P. Koroleva ”(part of Roscosmos State Corporation) an expanded Scientific and Technical Council (NTS) was held to consider a draft design of a superheavy class space rocket complex (SRK STK).

    The council was attended by representatives of RSC Energia and partner companies: RCC Progress, TsENKI, NIISK, KB Motor, KBTKhM, CSW, NPO Energomash, NPO avtomatiki, GKNPTs im. M.V. Khrunicheva, NPTSAP, as well as leading research organizations: TsNIImash, NPO Tekhnomash, SSC Center of Keldysh and the Agat Organization. From the State Corporation "Roskosmos" on the NTS were present the Executive Director for the removal and operation of NKI A.V. Mazurin, Chairman of the Scientific and Technical Council of Roscosmos Yu.N. Koptev and Director of the Department for the implementation of the program of the CRC STK I.K. Novikov. Also in the meeting of the NTS was attended by the General Designer for launch vehicles and ground-based space infrastructure A.A. Medvedev, general designer for manned systems and systems E.A. Mikrin, General Designer of Design Bureau “Salyut” S.V. Kuznetsov, General Designer, TsENKI A.A. Bogomolov and others.

    The report on the results of the development of the draft design of the airspace control complex STK was made by the General Director - General Designer of RSC Energia N.N. Sevastyanov. The results of the development of the components of the EP RST STK were reported: A.A. Progress RCC Chief Designer Cherevan; General Director of RCC "Progress" D.A. Rams; Deputy General Designer of Design Bureau Salyut, GKNPTs im. M.V. Khrunicheva Yu.I. Zavor; the chief designer of the branch of TsENKI - CB "Motor" R.V. Chaika and chief designer of the branch of TsENKI - NIISK N.A. Abrosimov. Also, reports were made by representatives of the leading research organizations: the head of the Center for launch vehicles and ground-based space infrastructure TsNIImash I.I. Kuznetsov; and about. A.I. First Deputy General Director for Research and Development of NPO Tekhnomash Cousin; General Director of SSC “Keldysh Center” V.V. Koshlakov and the head of the direction of the Agat Organization D.P. Smirnov.

    In his speech, the Director of the Department for the implementation of the program for the creation of the CRC STK of the State Corporation "Roscosmos" I.K. Novikov emphasized that the cooperative enterprises and RSC Energia, as the lead contractor for the development of the preliminary design of the KRK STK, did a great fundamental work, which must be adopted before the end of 2019.

    As a result of the meeting, the Scientific and Technical Council decided to approve the results of the draft designs of the air-space complex and its components and submit them to the Roscosmos State Corporation.

    It was noted that the presented results of the preliminary design of the air defense system STK confirm compliance with the requirements of the statement of work, as well as the general schedule approved in December last year by the Director General of Roscosmos State Corporation D.O. Rogozin.

    The Scientific and Technical Council recommended that the technical design of the CRC STK be carried out in 2020.


    For reference

    Roscosmos State Corporation concluded a state contract for the implementation of an integral part of development work with RSC Energia named after S.P. Koroleva as the lead contractor for the development of the conceptual design of the superheavy space rocket complex

    The main task of the superheavy class space missile complex is to provide manned missions to near-moon orbit, as well as to launch new-generation automatic spacecraft and space station modules into near-earth orbits, to the Moon, Mars, Jupiter and other celestial bodies of the Solar System. According to the terms of reference, the missile system should bring at least 80 tons of payload to low Earth orbit and at least 20 tons to near moon.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3827988.html
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:36 pm



    It is political commentary in Russian but relevant. The liberast 5th column in Russia has been trumpeting Space-X as some
    example of Russian failure. Even though Space-X has been around since 2002, longer than between WWII and Gagarin's
    first orbit, it is failing to deliver a man-rated rocket with a crew capsule. It is also taking much longer than the Apollo program
    to deliver much less. So the excuse that Space-X is a startup is not valid.

    The yanquis aggression against Russia is finally getting Russia to push back. It has not allocated seats on the Soyuz for
    America astronauts for the late 2020 and early 2021. This has forced NASA to beg for those seats.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:30 pm

    SpaceX is a sign of failure for the political system in murica. Instead of giving NASA a billion more for some projects (even if this entitiy is highly corrupt), they spend billions of taxpayer money on some moron and his toys.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:34 pm

    Hole wrote:SpaceX is a sign of failure for the political system in murica. Instead of giving NASA a billion more for some projects (even if this entitiy is highly corrupt), they spend billions of taxpayer money on some moron and his toys.

    Well it's not like SpaceX was a black project that only few people kniw about. Taxpayers know about this asshole and see him like a god. Why do you care about them if they don't cares about themselves ?
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    Post  Hole on Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:54 pm

    I don´t give a shit about him or the assholes that give him money. But some people think that this is a great example for Russia and that the russian government should act like the morons in Washington.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:13 pm

    Hole wrote:I don´t give a shit about him or the assholes that give him money. But some people think that this is a great example for Russia and that the russian government should act like the morons in Washington.

    Well less and less innovative stuff come from USA. They still have huge investment and tools but there are much more development in other countries and organizations that can take the lead even if they have less money. European space agency and all the companies working around the field of space make huge steps whike NASA doesn't do much.

    Even in the military stuff they are now clients of countries like israel or need investment of others like in f35 program.

    The USA are loosing their leadership and smaller countries are more careful because they can't afford to lose investment like them which makes them find better solution.

    Elon Musk is a model only for the dickheads that sped their days sharing their opinion on fb, twitter and instagram. For the smart poeple with some analyzing skills he is just a weired guy (on drugs ?) that managed to get rich in one field and think he knows everything about everything.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:03 am

    Majority of the tech that Elon Musk gets is from NASA anyway. Billions of US Taxpayers dollars went into funding SpaceX and then there is billions in subsidies, and then tech transfer. Because he more or less promised return (which is partially correct) because of marketing.

    Same with Telsa. A lot of the tech isn't from him either. His battery tech is mostly older Panasonic technology anyway.

    He is very good at marketing and looking great for PR. But that is all he is - a sales man.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 am

    He is very good at marketing and looking great for PR. But that is all he is - a sales man.

    Good description for the US...
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    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:53 am

    GarryB wrote:
    He is very good at marketing and looking great for PR. But that is all he is - a sales man.

    Good description for the US...

    Yes, indeed. Carpetbaggers and snake oil peddlers.

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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:39 am

    And his "spaceships" work as good as his unbreakable glass. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:07 pm

    LOL!!!!!



    SpaceX statement:

    “The purpose of today’s test was to pressurize systems to the max, so the outcome was not completely unexpected,” SpaceX said in a statement. “There were no injuries, nor is this a serious setback.”

    Not a serious setback?  What a joke.  This "StarShip" is a just a PR con-job aimed at idiot Muricans with a taste for kool-aid.  Ask these idiots why it took the US and the USSR a decade+ and 10B+ budgets to build SST/Buran systems and they think its cuz all those brilliant aerospace engineers are "stupid" or "incompetent"...

    Seriously, this friggin Musk clown says that he will land a "StarShip" on the moon in 2022, implying that its SHLV 1st stage (many time larger than a Saturn-5) will be up and flying by then.  Or that the "Starship" won't need thermal protection to re-enter the atmosphere cuz stainless steel won't lose structural strength at high temperatures...

    How the censored can anyone take this dumb censored  seriously?  Jeeez they breed 'em stupid in Uh'Murika...
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    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:26 pm

    That contraption looks like a flimsy industrial vat and not a rocket. I know that they are both cylinders, but this POS is fugly,

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:49 am

    Yes, indeed. Carpetbaggers and snake oil peddlers.

    And that is the problem... they have been selling the product for a century... they thought it was a good product... but it is not working... the product is seriously over rated and not what they actually think it is at all, but they don't understand why it does not sell so well these days... their problem is that they don't realise that Russia and China are not the same any more... and while Russia and China have more in common with the west than Saudi Arabia or even Israel they just don't get it... so when it comes to opening new markets in Africa and Asia, they use their strong arm tactics and bullying because they have the best product so they can make a better deal from their perspective... the problem is that they really don't have the best deal and when countries say no to expensive and limited capability Patriot missiles and choose instead to go for S-400 they have to get nasty and personal with sanctions and trade wars... even against allies...

    They are not questioning the product... they are getting upset and upsetting their customers... that is not how you do business... it is certainly not how you succeed in business.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:44 am

    The robot pilot of the ship "Eagle" will make it look like a person

    At the Android Technology NGO, they said that the android will be made smaller, lighter and "visually nicer" than the Fedor robot

    MOSCOW, January 15. / TASS /. The android robot of the Tester project, which will control the promising Russian spacecraft Orel, will be made smaller, lighter and visually nicer than the Fedora robot flying to the International Space Station. This was reported by TASS in the press service of the NGO Android Technology.

    “Outwardly, it will look like a person. It will definitely be smaller and lighter than FEDOR. Visually it will be more pleasant: a more streamlined design and more plastic elements (which can bend during movements - approx. TASS),” the company noted, responding to the corresponding question. The press service did not exclude that the Test robot could be covered with fabric protection.

    In the "Android technology" specified that another feature of the new android will be a more functional capture. The robot "Fedor" captures are made in the form of five-fingered hands, repeating human.

    According to the developers, the final appearance of the robot will be determined after signing the contract with Roscosmos. "If this happens before the end of the quarter, then the appearance will be determined by the end of 2020, and ground tests will begin in 2022," the press service of Android Technology explained.

    Earlier, Evgeny Dudorov, executive director of the Android Technology NGO, told TASS that during the first two flights, the Orel ship would be controlled by the Test Project robot. In turn, the executive director of Roscosmos for promising programs and science, Alexander Bloshenko, in an interview with TASS, noted that the android "will click on the buttons," that is, mechanically interact with the ship's controls.

    The first launch of Orla without astronauts on board is planned for 2023 from Vostochny Cosmodrome; the docking of the ship during this flight with the International Space Station is not provided. In 2024, also without astronauts, the Eagle will perform a second flight, followed by docking with the ISS. Manned spacecraft flights will begin in 2025.




    https://tass.ru/kosmos/7521065
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    Post  owais.usmani on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:12 pm

    https://twitter.com/FEDOR37516789/status/1213554851138953216

    The Soyuz-5 rocket will be ready for the start of flight tests in 2022. It will be issued in three versions: "Soyuz-5" in the light heavy class (17 tons at the IEO) for Baikonur; "Soyuz-6" in the middle class (9 tons per IEO) for Baikonur; "Soyuz-7" in the middle class (13 tons per DOE) for "Sea launch"
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    Post  owais.usmani on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:13 pm

    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34112.msg2035091#msg2035091

    Currently traveling at 10 knots near Catalina island the Sea Launch Commander is performing sea trials. We have been working to prepare the ship and platform for return to Russia, this test is expected to take two days. Normal practice, we have conducted sea trials before departure after any extended downtime. This has been the longest period of inactivity, 5.5 years, since new 23 years ago.
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    Post  owais.usmani on Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:48 pm

    http://www.kxan36news.com/floating-cosmodrome-sea-launch-began-to-relocate-from-the-usa-to-russia

    Floating cosmodrome “Sea launch” began to relocate from the USA to Russia

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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:51 pm

    Good
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:07 pm

    Even better is that S7 appears to have no plans to launch Zenits, and orders to the Banderite filth have been cancelled Laughing Ukropi launch equipment has now been removed from the platform for its transfer to Russia, so bye bye Yuzmash/Yuznoye, I guess its a long slow descent into bankruptcy for them (or else being purchased by the ChiComs if Kiev can muster the courage to defy the Commisars in Washington). Too bad they were taken over by Nazi Russophobe trash and run into the ground, but thats how the chips fall. Laughing

    It's not 100% clear what S7 will launch from the platform, but its shaping up to be a variant of Soyuz 5.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:16 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Even better is that S7 appears to have no plans to launch Zenits, and orders to the Banderite filth have been cancelled  Laughing Ukropi launch equipment has now been removed from the platform for its transfer to Russia, so bye bye Yuzmash/Yuznoye, I guess its a long slow descent into bankruptcy for them (or else being purchased by the ChiComs if Kiev can muster the courage to defy the Commisars in Washington). Too bad they were taken over by Nazi Russophobe trash and run into the ground, but thats how the chips fall.   Laughing

    It's not 100% clear what S7 will launch from the platform, but its shaping up to be a variant of Soyuz 5.

    The platform was designed around the Zenit which used the RD-171. So the Soyuz-5 is the logical replacement since it going to have basically
    the same characteristics.

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:14 am

    kvs wrote:The platform was designed around the Zenit which used the RD-171.   So the Soyuz-5 is the logical replacement since it going to have basically
    the same characteristics.

    Soyuz-5/Irtysh will be a significantly superior launcher to the Zenit.  Improvements in materials, manufacturing technologies and more efficient engines result in a greatly improved payload weight (18T to LEO compared to <14T for Zenit).

    Plus the basic Irtsyh core can be clustered to build modular SHLVs.  Whats not to love?  Very Happy

    For all the (often justified) flack that Roscosmos has taken over the somewhat aimless directions they have taken within their budget-constrained operating space,  I think the evolving architecture of modular Angara and Irtysh builds is just about ideal.

    Once they are flying on a routine basis, the Russians can address reuseability by introducing fly-back versions of the strap-on boosters like the Baikal concept.  For medium-to-heavy lift launchers (*), I'm unconvinced that recovery of the core is really desirable as it is best to keep the core firing up to 2nd stage separation and get the 2nd stage as high and fast as possible.  The current fly-back method of SpaceX requires the core to retain sufficient fuel to descend under its own power, and this is a waste of energy at exactly the point in the flight where that energy can be used most efficiently.  Its better to burn the core to completion and dispose of it to achieve max performance, and to introduce recoverable technology to the strap-ons which burn fast and are released at lower altitudes.  Recoverable technologies (like swing-out wing and air-breathing engines for cross-range capability) will add weight to the strap-on, but this is compensated for by extra engine power & fuel, in a similar way that solids are used. All they need to do is to get the core to altitude and speed, and their mass inefficiencies mean squat.

    (*) IMHO light class launchers are an exception to this rule.  Inefficiencies in the fly-back booster are secondary to the low cost of the expendable portion (2nd stage and payload stage).
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    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:36 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    kvs wrote:The platform was designed around the Zenit which used the RD-171.   So the Soyuz-5 is the logical replacement since it going to have basically
    the same characteristics.

    Soyuz-5/Irtysh will be a significantly superior launcher to the Zenit.  Improvements in materials, manufacturing technologies and more efficient engines result in a greatly improved payload weight (18T to LEO compared to <14T for Zenit).

    Plus the basic Irtsyh core can be clustered to build modular SHLVs.  Whats not to love?  Very Happy

    For all the (often justified) flack that Roscosmos has taken over the somewhat aimless directions they have taken within their budget-constrained operating space,  I think the evolving architecture of modular Angara and Irtysh builds is just about ideal.

    Once they are flying on a routine basis, the Russians can address reuseability by introducing fly-back versions of the strap-on boosters like the Baikal concept.  For medium-to-heavy lift launchers (*), I'm unconvinced that recovery of the core is really desirable as it is best to keep the core firing up to 2nd stage separation and get the 2nd stage as high and fast as possible.  The current fly-back method of SpaceX requires the core to retain sufficient fuel to descend under its own power, and this is a waste of energy at exactly the point in the flight where that energy can be used most efficiently.  Its better to burn the core to completion and dispose of it to achieve max performance, and to introduce recoverable technology to the strap-ons which burn fast and are released at lower altitudes.  Recoverable technologies (like swing-out wing and air-breathing engines for cross-range capability) will add weight to the strap-on, but this is compensated for by extra engine power & fuel, in a similar way that solids are used. All they need to do is to get the core to altitude and speed, and their mass inefficiencies mean squat.

    (*) IMHO light class launchers are an exception to this rule.  Inefficiencies in the fly-back booster are secondary to the low cost of the expendable portion (2nd stage and payload stage).

    For sure the Soyuz-5 modules are an improvement over the Zenit. But the for the Sea Launch platform the diameter and engine heat output
    are constraints. A different rocket would require expensive rebuilding of the platform. I think the Soyuz-5 design choice was not simply
    motivate by the need for a heavier modular rocket to allow heavier payloads than Angara. It was also designed to replace the Zenit in a
    practical sense. What you list are perks on top of these aspects.


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