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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

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    George1
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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:45 pm

    Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:20 am

    George1 wrote:Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018
    Good decision. Abandon ANY use of Ukropistani-origin hardware, and sever any and all sources of revenue from Soviet-era related legacy hardware.

    Its a bit of a pity as there is little more spectacular than watching a Dnepr launcher pop out of his (her?) silo and ignite the engines while hanging in the sky... a blast and a roar and away it goes with megatons of thermonuclear death all gift-wrapped for the US Elite parasites... errr, wait... make that a satellite payload.... /snark off

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:09 pm

    Russia is completing a new secret plant for producing hydrazine, a fuel for spacecraft. Foreign supplies of hydrazine, which Russia previously relied upon, are banned under western sanctions due to the fact that this fuel can be used in military programs.

    http://rbth.com/science_and_tech/2016/03/03/sanctions-convince-russia-to-produce-its-own-rocket-fuel_572783


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:29 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Russia is completing a new secret plant for producing hydrazine, a fuel for spacecraft. Foreign supplies of hydrazine, which Russia previously relied upon, are banned under western sanctions due to the fact that this fuel can be used in military programs.

    http://rbth.com/science_and_tech/2016/03/03/sanctions-convince-russia-to-produce-its-own-rocket-fuel_572783

    I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, especially given its military uses in hypergolic engines used in much of their strategic missile force?  What about N2O4 oxidiser?

    Also, the article states the new plant will produce 15T a year, which is absurdly inadequate - 15,000T a year I could believe.  I despair of shoddy techno-illiterate journalists...

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:09 am

    Russia to develop new Fenix carrier rocket by 2025

    Fenix will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket

    MOSCOW, March 30. /TASS/. Russia’s Space Corporation Roscosmos plans to expedite the development of a new medium-class carrier rocket Fenix to make it ready by 2025, Roscosmos Head Igor Komarov said on Wednesday.

    "The timeframe is until 2025. During this year [2016], we’ll again analyze, on which basis the rocket will be made. We have the intentions to make it until 2025. We see that the market and life require expediting this project," Komarov said.

    The Roscosmos CEO said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix "will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket."
    Russia’s super-heavy rocket project not to pay back

    According to Komarov, Russia’s super-heavy carrier rocket project will not pay back, as the real consumers for it will appear in about a decade.

    "[The project] will definitely not pay back," he said.

    According to Komarov, "There will be no real consumers over the next 10 years" for this rocket. "There will be no commercial use (of the carrier rocket) much longer - for 15-20 [years], I think," said the Roscosmos chief.

    He also said that the country’s Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 envisages no payloads requiring a super-heavy class rocket.

    Komarov added that Russia has the technology to implement this project. The development of the medium-class rocket Fenix (Phoenix) is the beginning of "the thorny path towards the creation of a super-heavy class launch vehicle," the Roscosmos head said. He said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix will be used as the super-heavy rocket’s first stage.

    Roscosmos is expected to spend about 30 billion rubles ($440 million) on the Fenix development. According to preliminary data, the carrier rocket should be a single-block space vehicle capable of delivering at least 9 tons of payloads into the low near-Earth orbit. The Feniks carrier rocket will fire liquefied natural gas. It was reported earlier that the R&D work on the new carrier rocket could start in 2017 or 2018.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/866046


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:48 pm

    All future Russian launch vehicle (beginning with Angara) will be named after Siberia & Far East rivers

    https://twitter.com/KURYERSAT/status/715229951822311425


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:07 am

    phoenix seems like duplication to angara.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:54 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, ...

    I agree with your point here; however, it is the UDMH that is used in large volumes in Russia. Russia's use of hydrazine as a rocket propellant is probably very limited and is probably only for some niche upper stage/payload applications. They have also been probably using many replacements for hydrazine, both in rocketry and in its other applications.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:44 am

    George1 wrote:

    According to Komarov, Russia’s super-heavy carrier rocket project will not pay back, as the real consumers for it will appear in about a decade.

    "[The project] will definitely not pay back," he said.

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/866046


    What a fool.

    If Russia all it does is supplying cargo to the ISS ,then it will not find clients for any
    super heavy rockets . But if Russia goes ahead and move to the moon or mars and create and master traveling to the moon and mars and even create a small landing base ,then
    the demand for Super heavy rockets will show up.

    In Humanity , there is not a single country in the world or a single human that will not love
    once in a lifetime to have a chance to travel safely to space safely and even more to orbit around the moon in a rocket. How many billionaires exist that will love to give a billion dollars for a ticket to the moon orbit and return? With a super heavy rocket you could even lower the prices if get many people at same time. Create the first space agency in the world.
    But the Russian Government and Putin continue with their short vision about the possibilities
    of what can be done if they were much more aggressive in space .

    Russians soviet mentality for attractive business is terrible. You dont wait for clients to show up. You create the demand by making ,inventing or doing something new never done before and that everyone will like to try..

    By the logic of him the plane will have been never invented ,because there was no client for
    it ,when it first was created.  Rolling Eyes but now everyone travel normally by plane across continents in hours thanks to the ambitions of scientist.  Electricity when it was invented ,did not had any
    clients either but look today ,how people cannot live without it. and is normal for the entire world. It was the invention of the plane ,when there was no need for it ,what created the Huge Demand for plane traveling. and not the other way.


    This is the reason Russia space program is just stuck as a taxi driver to the ISS with Russians with so dated mentality .  Russia needs to push forward ,invest heavily
    on its space program and aim for travels to space to other planets or satellites. and the
    clients they dont see now will show up in the thousands.  When Russia master the traveling to beyond earth orbit. With the 50 Billions $$ Russia spend in Sochi olympics , they could have instead spend 10 billion$ and get the other 40billions for a very ambitious space program ,including a new Space Station made by Russia and that covers Russia territory and a small landing base in the moon for research.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:08 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, ...

    I agree with your point here; however, it is the UDMH that is used in large volumes in Russia. Russia's use of hydrazine as a rocket propellant is probably very limited and is probably only for some niche upper stage/payload applications. They have also been probably using many replacements for hydrazine, both in rocketry and in its other applications.

    Ah, yes of course Very Happy I should have realised the article was regarding "ordinary" hydrazine and not UDMH. Thanks for the clarification!

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:59 am

    they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:44 pm

    Rmf wrote:they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....

    What exactly is your issue with a man-rated Angara-5P?  In your opinion, why would man-rating an Angara stack be difficult?  Man-rating is a question of reliability, emergency recovery modes and vibration environment, and I see no reason why Angara architecture should be especially hard to man-rate?

    I also do not see this proposed "Fenix" launcher as being a duplication of Angara, especially since we have no firm details on its configuration. It sounds like Fenix will be the core component of a future SHLV, so would be a Heavy-class launcher in its most basic (and initial operating) condition. It would not be a duplication of Angara as unlike Angara it would be scalable to 100+ ton to LEO.

    If I had to predict, I'd expect Fenix might be a ~5.0m dia core with methalox engines, and up-rated by strap-on URM-1 blocks (or a methalox version) and large-diameter upper stages? I'd expect manufacture in new facilities located in the Far East to mitigate transport issues (eg to avoid limitations on core size due to rail tunnel constraints) or possible air transport from European Russia.

    In any case, as with all things pertaining to the Russian space program, only time will tell dunno

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:03 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rmf wrote:they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....

    What exactly is your issue with a man-rated Angara-5P?  In your opinion, why would man-rating an Angara stack be difficult?  Man-rating is a question of reliability, emergency recovery modes and vibration environment, and I see no reason why Angara architecture should be especially hard to man-rate?

    I also do not see this proposed "Fenix" launcher as being a duplication of Angara, especially since we have no firm details on its configuration.  It sounds like Fenix will be the core component of a future SHLV, so would be a Heavy-class launcher in its most basic (and initial operating) condition.  It would not be a duplication of Angara as unlike Angara it would be scalable to 100+ ton to LEO.

    If I had to predict, I'd expect Fenix might be a ~5.0m dia core with methalox engines, and up-rated by strap-on URM-1 blocks (or a methalox version) and large-diameter upper stages? I'd expect manufacture in new facilities located in the Far East to mitigate transport issues (eg to avoid limitations on core size due to rail tunnel constraints) or possible air transport from European Russia.

    In any case, as with all things pertaining to the Russian space program, only time will tell  dunno

    You are trying to engage in a rational discussion with a clown who claimed the last Angara test launch involved the rocket "swaying unstably" during initial liftoff.
    This retard could not process the fish-eye distortion of the camera filming the launch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAH-O-cTUrg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGKMO_twoc

    Case closed.



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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:10 pm

    there are, phoenix mentioned here on 2nd page and other pages look up dont be lazy   Rolling Eyes
    its pure duplication to create artificial jobs after soyuz retirement...
    manrating angara will be hard.... now its not manrated. why wouldnt it be from start if it was that easy? rus-m was to be man rated not angara. so manrating angara as an afterthought will cost and take time.
    the deviations at angara launch were within boundaries. so? digital camera have distorsion?? or maybe some retarded camera from the 80s yes you are correct.... too bad butthurt is too strong in you to be objective.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:33 am

    Rmf wrote:there are, phoenix mentioned here on 2nd page and other pages look up dont be lazy   Rolling Eyes
    its pure duplication to create artificial jobs after soyuz retirement...
    manrating angara will be hard.... now its not manrated. why wouldnt it be from start if it was that easy? rus-m was to be man rated not angara. so manrating angara as an afterthought will cost and take time.
    the deviations at angara launch were within boundaries. so? digital camera have distorsion?? or maybe some retarded camera from the 80s yes you are correct.... too bad butthurt is too strong in you to be objective.

    There is a lot of conjecture about Fenix/Pheonix, and right now its too soon to say what the config will be. There was talk about Fenix being a development of Progress' Soyuz-5 methalox proposal, but now also talk of re-engineered Zenit with new methalox engines. Talk about Fenix being a basis for a future SHLV simply confuses the mess...

    I'll revise my previous guess-timate and suggest that Fenix base config may likely appear as a single stack (eg delivering 9 Ton to 200km LEO like the Soyuz 5.1 concept), but able to be clustered in a modular SHLV 1st stage as per the Energia-5K or Khrunichev Kaskad concepts. Kind of like an Angara on steroids with larger building blocks than the URM-1, and while I'd like to see russia develop and field a 5.0m dia vehicle, I think the modular approach is superior and certainly more flexible.

    Again, time will tell.... russia

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:10 pm

    well i arrived at simmilar conclusions over time instead old mix of everything they are building new mix of everything ,
    they should go for universal rocket engine concept!!!!
    and then develop like in mig / sukhoi fighter competition - light URM with single engine and heavy URM with 4 engines, for boosters ... and everything is launched with this 2 types of rockets.
    then you have true mass production ,good control ,and educating new staff is easier.
    sounds radical in industial organisation , but its very conservative technicaly.
    also everything should run on single fuel type too kerosine + oxygen on all stages.
    best expertise there , ditch everything else.... and hydrogen but only for upper stages and in some cases -heaviest versions some intermediate versions.
    urm-2 too would use 1 or 2 same engines depending if its  light or heavy variant.
    currently block -d 3rd stage is already built in krasnoyarsk in central siberia and in omsk in western siberia is building angara modules.

    so how large should hevay urm be? urm-1 diamether is 2,9m ,so if you want to double volume with same height just multiply with sqrt of 2.
    2,9*1,41= 4,089m and if you look at it energia proposal had large boosters with 4,1m (diamether like proton) and then doubleing the height giving 4 times volume thus you have fuel and could put 4 engines there.

    each engine would have its own pump be some upgraded version of nk-33-1 or rd-193 , there could be direct competition there with reliability ,cost and technical characteristics being main criteria... the winner would build 140-200 engines per year and that is true mass production.
    after you have engine thrust set and picked, and urms scaled properly ! you can have large scope to send from 3+ tonns to leo to 100 tonns to leo.
    streaching limits of angara is hard beyond certain point and it cant do it it has to be divided into slightly lighter and heavy versions.
    why lighter well rd-193 has 192t of thrust which is high ,engine should be in 170-180t  range.  so it can be scaled properly.  also with lower chamber pressure it would be easier to manrate all versions....and urm -1 should be smaller to compensate, from 171t from angaras urm to 145t tonns (payload at same fraction like angara a-1 would be 3,3 t to leo) .

    zenit has 4 chamber 720t engine and that is 4* 180t. so it would fit right in. zenit has other problem- currently zenit has too much thrust at take off because it was meant to lift energia and its hydrogen core engines give low thrust but burn for a long time. so they immitate partialy shuttle solids.
    heavy urm should be larger then zenits 450t , about 550t. then you have thrust to weight in 1,3 which is ok because it then you can put large hydrogen upper stage with no problem. thus you have 5 heavy URM version pushing from 75t with kerosine upper stage, to 100t with hydrogen.

    problem in angara i point is in their booster modules have thrust to weight 192/171=1,12. so that means you cant put anything very heavy on top of it. thats why angara a5v wont work its a design limit and fundamental flaw of the concept. emptying whole stack with core stage wont work you want core stage to work as long as it can or your altituide you start hydrogen stage burn is lower and you have problems.
    i have on another forum work out things in most aspects....its exciting time because this is the moment you send everything old to museum and starting new but lobbies and corrruption and positioning and egos are destroying the chanse to fundamentaly modernise and start with realy good concepts.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:08 pm

    Russia’s Space Troops to get seven Soyuz family missiles in 2016 — official

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/888523


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:05 am

    Russia’s Phoenix carrier rocket not intended for manned flights

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/903299


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:02 am

    Russia’s 1st carrier rocket firing naphthyl may blast off from Vostochny spaceport in 2018

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/905439


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:20 pm

    MOSCOW, November 28. /TASS/. Russia is about to launch a project for building a new super-heavy space rocket that will make it possible to create a research station on the Moon someday, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin while addressing an audience at the space rocket corporation Energiya.
    More:
    http://tass.com/science/915040


    MOSCOW, November 28. /TASS/. Russia’s new generation cargo spacecraft, due to replace the current Progress MS family, is scheduled to begin flights to the International Space State ISS after 2020, the designer of all of Russia’s spacecraft, Energia Corporation, has told TASS.

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/915098


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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:40 pm

    Article by TASS where they appear to confirm our belief that Fenix/Phoenix will be the core module for a future Russian SHLV:

    Quoting Aleksandr Ivanov, the first deputy CEO of Roscosmos:

    "We are not going to make a super-heavy rocket right away, though, because nobody needs it for the time being. We’ve opted for a step-by-step solution. First we’ll make a medium class rocket - called Feniks (Phoenix).
    Feniks has been conceived as the first stage of a super-heavy rocket. The Angara rocket’s hydrogen-fueled stage will be used as the third stage. No decision regarding the second stage has been made yet, Ivanov said.


    They also state that the 3rd stage will be the KVTK (or a development of it), currently under development for later models of the A5.

    It's a long way off (first SHLV flight after 2030) but its a logical and efficient plan and makes good leverage of commonality.

    For full report http://tass.com/science/915241

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:58 am

    and here is the concept how it would work , with angara and phoenix URM


    23 billion for heavy launcher that is overblown crap , unbelivable expencive it seems something is very wrong with russian space manufacturers. this is impossible task for their budget.
    as it is, its a complete waste.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:10 pm

    Instead of being a pissy pansy, why don't we wait for actual figures when the device is being made? Your clearly not that slow, so it should be known to you by now that projected /= reality.

    So, lets wait. If you want to continue your childish hissy fit, then feel free. Will only make you look retarded.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:03 pm

    ""As a result of an abnormal situation, the loss of the Progress cargo ship took place at an altitude of 190 kilometers above the deserted mountainous area in Tuva, most of the fragments burned up in the atmosphere as a result of an abnormal situation," Roscosmos press service said."

    Source: https://sputniknews.com/science/201612011048070489-roscosmos-progress-burns/

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:50 pm



    At the pace Russia is moving in space , they will still be another 200 years as a taxi driver
    to the ISS. IS unbelievable that still today Russia is struggling with sending cargo to the
    ISS ,and no one is fired for this incompetence.

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