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    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor

    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:58 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Wasn't there talk about a long range, high speed interceptor to replace the MiG-31 in the long run Berkut?

    Yes, there were. I hope MiG could use its MiG-1-44 concept to develop it.
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    Post  Guest Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:27 pm

    medo wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Wasn't there talk about a long range, high speed interceptor to replace the MiG-31 in the long run Berkut?

    Yes, there were. I hope MiG could use its MiG-1-44 concept to develop it.
    At that point, why not just take back the design for the J-20 from China and make some improvements from there?
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    Post  medo Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:50 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Wasn't there talk about a long range, high speed interceptor to replace the MiG-31 in the long run Berkut?

    Yes, there were. I hope MiG could use its MiG-1-44 concept to develop it.
    At that point, why not just take back the design for the J-20 from China and make some improvements from there?

    MiG-31 replacement will not be a stealth plane, but fast plane with long range. Of course it will have lower RCS than MiG-31 and maybe better maneuverability, what MiG-1-44 could provide together with long range as it is quite big plane with large wings for a lot of fuel. We will see, if MiG will develop replacement from the start or they will shorten its development using MiG-1-44, which have flying prototype.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:37 am

    Wasn't there talk about a long range, high speed interceptor to replace the MiG-31 in the long run Berkut?

    The MiG-41...

    So far just talk.

    Supposed to be a mach 4.2 speed interceptor.

    As Medo mentions this new aircraft is an interceptor... its main features are long range and high flight speed.

    Stealth is a waste of money... a huge powerful radar, a huge internal fuel tank, a large internal weapon bay for lots of large long range AAMs would be ideal... internal weapons because of low drag rather than low RCS.
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:51 am

    In order to maximize the stealth, active radar aka emitter should be turn off, only receiver is functional, and that is not a good thing for air fighter. And stealthy shape means some reduce in aerodynamic shape, maneuverabilty, speed and that means reduce air fight capability.

    So far I believe, stealth is more useful for scouter/ground attacker than fighter.

    But I believe, at least for the next 2 decades, nothing can outcompete MiG-31 in air to air fighting.
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    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 2 Empty PAK DP - In Russia began to create a radio-electronic complex for PAK DP

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:42 am

    Dear Lads, looks like famous MiG-41 is PAK DP. I did not know what thread shall I report this news - pls advise.

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150812/1179112588.html

    MOSCOW, Aug 12 — RIA Novosti, Yekaterina Spirovska, Alexander Nevar. Work on defining the shape of the radio-electronic complex of a promising aviation complex distant intercept (PAK DP), which will replace the MiG-31 began in "NIIP Tikhomirov", reported to journalists the General Director of the enterprise Yury Belyi.

    Last year the Russian air force commander Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev said that Russia in 2017 will begin research work on the development of PAK DP. Readiness to participate in the development of the aircraft in February this year, said the RAC "MiG".
    "Development system "Zaslon" of the fighter-interceptor MiG-31 has been a milestone for our Institute and became his "calling card". So, of course, we couldn't stay out of participation in the creation of new radio-electronic complex for PAK DP. Started research work on determination of appearance-based systems not only modernized "Zaslon", but for all of the latest developments, including "bars", "IRBIS", radio-electronic system for the PAK FA and others," said Belyi.

    He noted that for the new interceptor should be developed on a modern basis and all other systems.

    "If NIIP will be chosen by the developer of electronic industry, we will need to ensure communication with all onboard systems. We are also ready, have the necessary experience," added the CEO of the developer.

    NIIP is a developer of systems management service (OMS) fighter aircraft, as well as the developer of anti-aircraft missile systems of medium-range air defense Ground forces, whose task is to protect against air attack. Currently the shareholders of "NIIP Tikhomirov" are "Concern PVO "Almaz-Antey" (56%) and "Concern radio-Electronic Technology" (44%), part of state Corporation Rostech.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:46 am

    Well well next PAK DP news as of today...

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150812/1179366786.html

    Commander videoconferencing: Interceptor future will not create before 2019


    MOSCOW, August 12 - RIA Novosti. Development work on the development of perspective aviation complex long-range interception (PAK DP), which in the future will replace the MiG-31, will begin no earlier than 2019, told journalists on Wednesday VKS Commander Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev.

    "Start of development work on the creation PAK DP planned no earlier than 2019. At the moment, the Russian Defense Ministry has successfully carried out the modernization of existing facilities interception - the MiG-31," - said Bondarev.

    He noted that the timing of the ROC to build PAK DP does not affect the status of the park interceptors videoconferencing.

    Last year, Bondarev reported that Russia in 2017 will begin research work on PAK DP. And earlier on Wednesday CEO NIIP VV Tikhomirov Yury White announced that the company has already begun work on the definition of the complex shape of electronic interceptor future.

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    Post  Viktor Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:42 pm

    What matters the most is that MiG-41 is in the pipeline  thumbsup

    Commander videoconferencing: Interceptor future will not create before 2019

    KRET as always busy thumbsup

    In Russia, we started to create electronic systems for the PAK DP
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:28 am

    Viktor wrote:What matters the most is that MiG-41 is in the pipeline  thumbsup

    Commander videoconferencing: Interceptor future will not create before 2019

    In English

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/813929

    MOSCOW, August 12. /TASS/. Research and development for the creation of a new generation long-range interceptor-fighter to replace Russia's MiG-31 will begin no earlier than 2019, the commander in chief of Russia’s Air and Space Forces, Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev said.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:07 am

    Viktor wrote:What matters the most is that MiG-41 is in the pipeline  thumbsup

    Commander videoconferencing: Interceptor future will not create before 2019

    KRET as always busy thumbsup

    In Russia, we started to create electronic systems for the PAK DP

    ekhm this news already was in previous 2 posts Razz
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:09 am

    [quote="higurashihougi"]
    Viktor wrote:What matters the most is that MiG-41 is in the pipeline  thumbsup

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/813929

    MOSCOW, August 12. /TASS/. Research and development for the creation of a new generation long-range interceptor-fighter to replace Russia's MiG-31 will begin no earlier than 2019, the commander in chief of Russia’s Air and Space Forces, Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev said.


    Interesting here is also this sentence here:
    According to earlier reports, the MiG-31 upgrade program will provide the Russian armed forces more than 130 MiG-31BM fighter planes.

    Not bad at all
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    Post  victor1985 Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:41 pm

    GarryB wrote:As far as I know the forward swept wing is ideal for subsonic aircraft but in theory it should also be rather more efficient for high speed flight too.

    For those not familiar a very simple explaination is that a straight wing generates more life but also generates more drag. The faster you fly the more drag is created so as you get faster a sweep back of the wing can reduce drag while still generating lift.

    the main problem is that sometimes the air does not just flow straight over the wing and with very sharply swept wings the air can flow down the sweep. When it gets to the end of the wing the high pressure air and the low pressure air mix and form a huge vortex that generates parasitic drag.

    One solution is the wing in ground effect where short broad wings are used on aircraft that fly very close to the ground so the vortex does not form properly and drag is greatly reduced.

    another solution is winglets which reduces but does not eliminate the vortex.

    Another solution is wing fences but again these do not eliminate the vortex.

    the forward swept wing results in the span wise flow heading towards the wing root instead of the wing tip so the wing tip vortex is practically eliminated as a significant force on the aircraft.

    careful design allows the spanwise flow to add to lift by flowing over the lifting body fuselage instead of creating a vortex at the wingtip.

    The direct result is an enormous reduction in drag, which means the wing can be made smaller and lighter... which further reduces drag etc etc.

    The main problem is that in a turn the forces on the wing tend to make it bend upwards which increases the lift and drag and would increase the turn rate which rapidly turns a slow turn into a broken wing.

    Modern laminates that are rigid in one direction and relatively flexible in the other promised a forward swept wing strong enough not to break in a turn but flexible enough to promise an active reshapable wing so you can have it flat and low drag for high speed flight and curved and high lift for takeoff and landing. A really active wing could mean no leading edge slats and flaps which would greatly reduce RCS as well.

    Personally I would think if they can solve the problems of high speed a forward swept wing offers lower drag and higher lift.
    a triangle like wing would help?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:55 pm

    victor1985 wrote: a triangle like wing would help?

    Actually in USSR there was a project Mig-301/321 interesting info there but I understand that drawings are just a fan art
    http://www.paralay.com/301.html


    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 2 321

    or

    here is not high supersonic but also interesting shape

    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 2 701_MIG_02

    http://bastion-opk.ru/mig-41/


    And here is a TSAGI model of MFP (многофункциональный перехватчик - multipurpose/universal interceptor)

    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 2 Mfp-cagi

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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:32 am

    I believe it is better to make 2 vertical stabs and put it at the edge of the aircraft hull, similar to MiG-25/31 and F-15.

    That means the vertical stabs won't be blocked by wing and hull at high AoA.
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    Post  George1 Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:16 am

    Russian aircraft corporation MiG working on outlook of new-generation interceptor — CEO

    "After the work is over, we’ll consider the issue of concluding a contract [with the Defense Ministry of Russia] on its [long-range interceptor system] development," the MiG chief said

    MOSCOW, August 21. /TASS/. The aircraft corporation MiG is working on the outlook of a new-generation interceptor for Russian aviation, MiG CEO Sergei Korotkov said on Friday.

    "We’re conducting R&D, which helps determine the outlook of a long-range interceptor system. After the work is over, we’ll consider the issue of concluding a contract [with the Defense Ministry of Russia] on its development," the MiG chief said.

    Meanwhile, Commander of the Russian Air and Space Defense Force Viktor Bondarev said the R&D work on creating a new interceptor to replace the Mikoyan MiG-31 (NATO reporting name: Foxhound) aircraft would begin no early than 2019.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:58 am

    That means the vertical stabs won't be blocked by wing and hull at high AoA.

    Keep in mind this is an interceptor... so long range, high flight speed, ability to fly very high or very low if needed are all useful features along with very big radar/sensors, and significant payload of air to air weapons...

    High manouver capability, along with stealth are secondary and would actually likely reduce performance in more important areas.

    Twin fins is good for stability, but two fins is twice as heavy and increases drag compared to one.

    On the other hand if you have two they don't generally need to be as big as they need to be when you only have one...

    If the new aircraft has leading edge root extensions like the MiG-29/35 and Flankers then twin fins improve performance as they generally are in line with the energised vortexes generated by the LERXs, which improves control and stability...
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    Post  jhelb Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:59 pm

    PAK-DP will feature aerospace defense capability

    Сегодня становится очевидным, что через какое-то время изменится характер угроз, исходящих от средств воздушного и воздушно-космического нападения. Произойдет их частичная интеграция, что потребует создания новых средств защиты. Руководство государства это понимает. Подтверждением служит создание нового вида Вооруженных сил - Воздушно-космических сил России


    http://m.rg.ru/2015/08/23/mig.html

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    Post  victor1985 Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:33 pm

    no here is what i mean to say
    https://i.servimg.com/u/f18/19/23/23/63/wing13.jpg
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    Post  Flanky Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:54 pm

    jhelb wrote:PAK-DP will feature aerospace defense capability

    Сегодня становится очевидным, что через какое-то время изменится характер угроз, исходящих от средств воздушного и воздушно-космического нападения. Произойдет их частичная интеграция, что потребует создания новых средств защиты. Руководство государства это понимает. Подтверждением служит создание нового вида Вооруженных сил - Воздушно-космических сил России


    http://m.rg.ru/2015/08/23/mig.html

    It was about time they start to think of that....
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    That means the vertical stabs won't be blocked by wing and hull at high AoA.

    Keep in mind this is an interceptor... so long range, high flight speed, ability to fly very high or very low if needed are all useful features along with very big radar/sensors, and significant payload of air to air weapons...

    High manouver capability, along with stealth are secondary and would actually likely reduce performance in more important areas.

    Twin fins is good for stability, but two fins is twice as heavy and increases drag compared to one.
    .

    maybe something close to MiG-1.44? max speed was to be over 3000 km/h? (Google shows 3185 km/h)

    https://www.google.ru/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=mig+1.44+%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C


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    BTW NGBs will have helluva party with hell part emphasized Smile
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    Post  Backinblack Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:54 am

    Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG is developing a new interceptor to replace MiG-31.

    http://mil.today/2015/Weapons11/
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    Post  Guest Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:52 am

    Backinblack wrote:Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG is developing a new interceptor to replace MiG-31.

    http://mil.today/2015/Weapons11/

    Yeah, similar news appared almost 2 years ago, we shall see what happens. My gut says it will be either MiG31 or MiG 1.44 based + borrowed technology from SU35/PAK-FA, nothing too exotic, coz they dont have alot of money to throw in that project imo.
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    Post  George1 Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:40 pm

    Interview with the head of the RAC "MiG" Sergei Korotkov.

    He says that a new aerial system is needed to solve the problems of air defence assigned to MiG-31, which actually increased - based on new principles, new materials. It will be an airplane. Work is already underway to determine the shape of the aircraft, and it is not an initiative

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1642309.html
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    Post  George1 Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:59 pm

    Adapt and Overcome: New Russian Interceptor to Replace MiG-31

    The Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG is currently working on a new military aircraft to replace the MiG-31, according to media reports.

    Despite being one of the fastest combat aircraft in the world, the Mikoyan MiG-31 (NATO reporting name: Foxhound) supersonic interceptor went out of production in 1994. However, as Russia still requires this type of aircraft to protect its sizeable airspace, the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG is already working on a new combat aircraft which will eventually replace the old reliable Foxhound.

    "The MiG-31 is in great demand to meet our country’s air defense needs. But it went out of production some time ago, although the functions assigned to the MiG-31 will still be required," the corporation’s CEO Sergei Korotkov told Russian Vedomosti newspaper. "We need a new aircraft to deal with these problems—which have, in fact, grown—based on new principles and new materials. And we understand what kind of airplane it will be: work is already underway to determine the aircraft’s design."

    Korotkov didn’t share any other details regarding the new interceptor. However, when asked whether the sixth generation fighter will be a manned or unmanned plane, he replied that UAVs are unlikely to completely replace manned aircraft in the foreseeable future.

    "I think manned and unmanned combat aircraft will coexist for a long time. Today, even though the intelligence of combat systems is growing rapidly, they still need a human to make a final decision," Korotkov remarked, according to Vedomosti.

    "For simple tasks, unmanned aircraft will be enough, but for complex ones, a human presence—either as an onboard pilot or a drone operator—is still needed."

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160101/1032572760/combat-aircraft-interceptor-development.html#ixzz3vzst9ZZ5
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    Post  Austin Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:31 pm

    On the basis of the MiG-31, proposed to create a new high-altitude interceptor MiG-41

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2016/01/20/377210.html

    High-altitude fighter-interceptor MiG-31, which according to experts still do not have analogues in the world, can become the basis for the creation of modern high-altitude combat aircraft MiG-41, said, "Interfax-AVN" on Wednesday, a member of the Duma Committee on Defense Alexander Tarnaev.

    "This view is not only deputies, but also the development and production of this unique aircraft, which they expressed in the visiting session of our committee in Lukhovitsy near Moscow (branch corporations" MIG "-" Interfax-AVN ") and Nizhny Novgorod plant" Sokol "where serially produced MiG-31, and is now undergoing modernization, "- said A.Tarnaev.

    He said that in response to the appeal of the State Duma deputies to the country's leadership, decided to include the project of creating long-term high-altitude interceptor, the new armament program with the terms of the realization in 2020. "This car will be the further development of the fighter-interceptor MiG-31, which is a decade ahead of its time. We do not exclude that its development can begin before 2020, since such a plane is very necessary to our armed forces," - said A.Tarnaev.

    According to him, some time ago there was a special meeting of the Defense Committee of the MiG-31 interceptor. The participating experts noted the unique characteristics of the aircraft. Managing Director - General Designer of "" OAO Alexander Inozemtsev, for example, said that the design features of the fuselage such that when you install new engines on a plane, he might even go hypersound.

    "As far as I know, all were built more than 500 high-altitude interceptor MiG-31. In the ranks is currently in the order of 100 machines. Until such time as the MiG-41 begins to enter the army, the last modernization of high-altitude interceptors will remain in the Air- Russian Space Forces, "- said A.Tarnaev.

    He said that thanks largely to the support of the State Duma deputies managed to preserve this unique aircraft in service and start its modernization. Today the modernized MiG-31BM has come into force. "Last September, during a working visit of members of the Duma Defense Committee in the Nizhny Novgorod region and visiting the plant" Sokol "we had the opportunity to personally make sure that there is a large-scale modernization of the MiG-31. The plant successfully fulfilling the state defense order for the modernization of MiG-31. It is pleased that the legendary plane again, "stands on the wing," - said A.Tarnaev.

    The supersonic fighter-interceptor MiG-31, developed by the Russian Aircraft Corporation "MiG". It is designed for long patrols and combat high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, strategic bombers and low-flying targets. Aircraft was produced at the Nizhny Novgorod aircraft building plant "Sokol" In total, between 1976 and 1994 were issued 533 aircraft of various modifications.

    Earlier, Deputy Assistant Director General of RAC "MiG" Mikoyan Hovhannes (son Artem Mikoyan aircraft designer) told reporters that the fighter-interceptor MiG-31 has a high potential, he will be able to successfully operate a century.

    "This - is my favorite airplane. Even a hundred years, he can defend our sky, because it is - a unique machine that has no direct analogues abroad. It is made of steel and titanium, has a maximum speed of 3 thousand kilometers per hour. Four fighter-interceptor MiG-31, operating in a single information field, may block the front of 900 km, tracking and destroying dozens of foreign cars. " - O.Mikoyan said.


    The contract for the modernization of the 2019 order of 60 MiG-31 was concluded with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in 2011.

    The upgraded MiG-31BM has a modern management system, target detection range up to 320 km, the defeat - 280 km. The aircraft is capable of simultaneously hitting 6 and track up to 10 air targets. Due to the avionics and weapons of the new generation of the effectiveness of the MiG-31BM compared with the MiG-31 has increased by 2.6 times

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