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    MiG-41 New Interceptor:

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:38 am

    It would take forever with no funding.

    With the MiG-41 programme there is a clear purpose and need for such an engine, so funding will take it from drawing and working prototype to hardware much faster.

    As an example of the opposite look at the MiG-29M and Mi-28N from the late 1980s that are really only now appearing as actual usable hardware in the form of the MiG-35 and Mi-28NM. Obviously technology has moved on so they are very different aircraft from what they were to begin with but with no funding there was no progress... just mockups for air shows...

    They already have a working prototype of a turbojet/ramjet engine... modifying the design to allow scramjet operation perhaps with pulse detonation technology... or not wont take 13 years.


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    eehnie

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  eehnie on Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:16 pm

    I expect the MiG-41 included too in the State Armament Program 2018-2025.

    A video with some interesting images of the aircraft.

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    George1

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:50 am

    Russia to Build 5th Generation Fighter-Interceptor in Addition to PAK FA, PAK DA

    Russia will soon begin development of its fifth-generation fighter-interceptor, the PAK DP, according to the head of the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG Ilya Tarasenko.

    Speaking to journalists on Friday, Ilya Tarasenko, director general of the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK MiG), said that the development of the PAK DP, Russia's fifth-generation fighter- interceptor, will begin in the immediate future, in line with its scheduled start.

    "We are currently developing the concept of a long-range interceptor aircraft to bring a proposal to our main customer [the Russian Defense Ministry]," Tarasenko said.

    "I hope that in the near future we will start research and development work [pertaining to the new plane]," he added.

    According to Tarasenko, the life cycle of the PAC DP's predecessor, the MiG-31 aircraft, will wrap up in 10 years which is why it should be replaced with a more sophisticated warplane.

    Earlier, Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev, commander-in-chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces, said that research and development work on the PAK DP will begin in 2019 at the earliest.

    The MiG-31 is a long-range supersonic fighter-interceptor, designed for use against both high and low-altitude airborne targets. The plane was first introduced into the Soviet military in 1980, and its mass production continued until 1994.

    MiG Corporation is currently fulfilling a contract to modernize the Russian Aerospace Defense Forces' existing fleet of MiG-31s.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201707141055552730-russia-fifth-generation-figher-interceptor/


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    eehnie

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  eehnie on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:11 am

    Another key project going forward, as expected. Like in the case of the Tu-PAK-DA, I would expect the first unit delivered by the end of 2025, under the new State Armament Program 2018-2025. And serial production some years later. It is an ambitious goal, but doable, taking into account the obvious priorities of the Russian Armed Forces today, more interested in to reach the hability of producing modern warfare of all the types by 2025, and the finalisation of an entire generation of new warfare, than in to a bounce in the procurement.

    In recent years the oldest Russian warfare proved to be still effective in todays conflicts, and it makes valid the Russian reserves of material, which means lower hurry in inmediate procurement, after to reach the first unit of every type of new warfare, which is of technical interest.

    Also Russia is doing well the separation between key projects to develop in order to be closer to the state of the art for every role, and other distractions.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:38 am

    Many people cannot see it but these programs are actually quite cheap even if they look expensive in short term.

    Reason why I say this is because:

    1) Costs eventually drop as more are produced.

    2) commonality among parts, making it cheap and easy to maintain.

    3) Using more composite materials drops overall prices.

    4) New platforms meaning more opportunities to grow in their development. As well, with newer technology, they can make them weigh less while packing more.

    5) Older planes, even if newly built, will have a hard time keeping up against newer threats. Add to that, they would be replacing multiple type of older aircrafts, reducing costs in maintenance.

    There are obvious other points. But PAK DA is to replace Tu-95/98/160. That is three different platforms that would be replaced. Next interceptor will replace MiG-31's. PAK FA will obviously replace both various Sukhois like Su-27,30,35. Next Mikoyan will end up replacing MiG-29's and 35's.

    Doing so, they can have larger airforce while not spending nearly as much in long run.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:35 am

    Interesting points, though the correction that the PAK DA will actually be replacing the Tu-95 in the strategic role and the Tu-22M3 in the theatre role and will likely operate together with the Tu-160M2 for some time as they compliment each other rather well as both being capable yet offering different performance features... ironically the PAK DA will be the expensive to buy but cheap to operate subsonic bomber, while the Blackjack will be the unique supersonic capable bomber that is more expensive to operate but offering features a subsonic bomber cannot offer.

    In the same sense I suspect the PAK FA will continue to operate with Su-35 and MiG-35 and upgraded aircraft for quite some time as they offer different levels of performance for different price brackets.

    They wont need PAK FAs on all their borders... sometimes MiG-35s will be better... their shorter range meaning more bases but shorter interception times.

    A mix of stealth and non stealth aircraft creates the opportunity to carry more missiles and set up ambush type operations against some opponents while still having the advantages of AESA radars and long range missiles in an IADS.

    Back to topic new technologies making a plane go Mach 4-5 means potential for very high speed aircraft for very long range flights cruising at very high speed and eventually from runway to orbit and back...


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    Austin

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:25 pm

    PAC DP in the future may become unmanned

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4498414

    KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, August 22. / TASS /. The Russian perspective interceptor PAK DP in the future may become unmanned. This was announced on Tuesday by the General Director of the RAC "MiG" Ilya Tarasenko at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" in the Moscow Patriot Park.

    "This will be a completely new aircraft, where completely new technologies for working in the Arctic sphere will be applied, this aircraft will guard the entire border of our homeland, then it will be transferred to the unmanned project," he said.

    Tarasenko noted that RAC "MiG" creates medium and heavy drones.


    The general director of the company also said that the deliveries of the interceptor PAK DP to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are scheduled to begin in the mid-2020s. "Under the condition of the appearance of an order from the Defense Ministry, we already, as I said earlier, will begin a full-fledged development and supply in the mid-2020s of this aircraft," he said.

    Tarasenko added that the PAK DP project is a development of the interceptor MiG-31.

    Earlier, the commander-in-chief of the Air and Space Forces of Russia, Victor Bondarev, reported that the experimental design work to create a new interceptor to replace the existing MiG-31 will not begin until 2019.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4498414
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:51 am

    Orbital fighter: what will be the replacement interceptor MiG-31

    MOSCOW, August 22 - RIA Novosti. A promising long-range intercept aircraft complex (PAK DP) MiG-41, being developed to replace the high-altitude MiG-31 interceptor, will be able to carry out missions in space, the General Director of the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG Ilya Tarasenko said on the Zvezda television on Tuesday. .

    "We are already doing this, for us this is the natural development of the MiG-31, which will be a completely new technological aircraft, new technologies, invisibility, work in space, new speeds, a new radius," Tarasenko said.
    He noted that all the available developments are being implemented in the PAC DP project.
    Earlier on Tuesday, during the work of the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" in the suburban Kubinka, Tarasenko said that the PAK DP is a natural development of Russian MiG-31 aircraft; Its supplies of the Russian Defense Ministry may begin in the mid-2020s.
    According to him, the MiG-41 will be a "completely new aircraft," and not a deep upgrade of the MiG-31, which it will replace.
    He also said that the Russian long-range interceptor PAK DP will use completely new technologies to work in the Arctic. "Then it will be transferred to the unmanned project," said the general director of the RAC "MiG".
    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/arms/20170822/1500876303.html




    So MiG-41 goes orbital and among other kills US satellites respekt  Razz



    The main qualities for a high-altitude interceptor are speed and range of action, and not maneuverability, said the Honored Test Pilot of the USSR, Hero of Russia Anatoly Kvochur. According to him, promising "high-altitude" can be used for peaceful purposes, such as, for example, combating space debris in low orbits.

    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170825/1501120951.html




    And here CNN "Breaking News": Putin tests new MiG-41 to meddle into US elections"

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    eehnie

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:04 am


    Very interesting approach in the last articles. I see the project very well oriented at this point.

    T-47

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:22 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:And here CNN "Breaking News": Putin tests new MiG-41 to meddle into US elections"


    NO thats Darth Vann, flying on his mesosphere hypersonic bomber Laughing
    CNN fake news made it as MiG-41 xD
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:35 am

    T-47 wrote:

    NO thats Darth Vann, flying on his mesosphere hypersonic bomber Laughing
    CNN fake news made it as MiG-41 xD

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    BTW look at its capabilities flying high (30+ km) means not only better access to satellites but also to hypersonic Prompt Global Strike missiles (to be flying something like 50-70 km altitude). And less air friction so higher speeds.

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:17 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    BTW look at its capabilities flying high (30+ km)  means not only better access to satellites but also to hypersonic Prompt Global Strike missiles (to be flying something like 50-70 km altitude).  And less air friction so higher speeds.

    Lets see how much of it comes to into reality. Speed indicates it'll definitely use scramjet. So far only Tsirkon missile is slated to use a scramjet. They need to make one for an aircraft first. I think this engine will be the main headache. Designing a mach 4+ airframe with its equipment can be done rather easily.
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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:38 am

    T-47 wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    BTW look at its capabilities flying high (30+ km)  means not only better access to satellites but also to hypersonic Prompt Global Strike missiles (to be flying something like 50-70 km altitude).  And less air friction so higher speeds.

    Lets see how much of it comes to into reality. Speed indicates it'll definitely use scramjet. So far only Tsirkon missile is slated to use a scramjet. They need to make one for an aircraft first. I think this engine will be the main headache. Designing a mach 4+ airframe with its equipment can be done rather easily.

    Hmm not so sure about how easy is with airframe. According to this if I understand it correctly , on 25km with 5Ma you still have like temp of 1,300 Celsius to cope with.

    http://paralay.com/301.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:13 pm


    So what would be the odds of new interceptor using jet/ramjet combo similar to SR-71?

    Simple enough solution in this day and age. Quick one too. Aircraft needs to be big by default (large ordinance) so it could be an option.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:55 am

    The jet layout and use on the SR-71 was very clever, but the engine was a subsonic engine...

    In other words the engines were turbojets with bypass air ducts where fuel could be injected directly into the bypass air effectively making them ramjets, but the top speed is still seriously limited to about Mach 3.5 or so because the air going into the engines had to be slowed to subsonic speed before the fuel could burn and generate thrust.

    A supersonic combustion ramjet means the air going in does not need to be slowed down at all... fuel is added and burned and accelerates out the back at even higher speed to produce thrust... the higher the speed of air flow the more the thrust meaning a scramjet would be much more powerful than a ramjet at such high flight speeds.

    In comparison the jet engine in the MiG-25 and MiG-31 had turbine blades spinning at full speed at top speed making it the fastest operating turbojet engine... in comparison the jet engines in the SR-71 are just idling at top speed and generating almost no thrust.

    Having jet engines with a scramjet mode would greatly increase potential flight speed... it would make speeds beyond mach 5 possible where previous speeds were only possible with rocket propulsion.


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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:03 pm


    Correct. I just checked and SR-71 top speed is 3,540 km/h while MiG-31 is 3,000 km/h. Not that big of a difference actually.

    I always thought that SR-71 is much faster...

    Looks like that if VKS does go for new interceptor it will really be out of this world.


    EDIT: Speaking of those two, I just stumbled on this from 2013:

    How the Mig-31 repelled the SR-71 Blackbird from Soviet skies

    https://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Correct. I just checked and SR-71 top speed is 3,540 km/h while MiG-31 is 3,000 km/h. Not that big of a difference actually.

    I always thought that SR-71 is much faster...

    Looks like that if VKS does go for new interceptor it will really be out of this world.


    EDIT:  Speaking of those two, I just stumbled on this from 2013:

    How the Mig-31 repelled the SR-71 Blackbird from Soviet skies

    https://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/
    Curious how the article implies the SR-71 flew within Soviet airspace, considering it did no such thing...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:20 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:...........
    https://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/
    Curious how the article implies the SR-71 flew within Soviet airspace, considering it did no such thing...

    Oh that's nothing, you want full retard just check the comment section... lol1
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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:32 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:...........
    https://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/
    Curious how the article implies the SR-71 flew within Soviet airspace, considering it did no such thing...

    Oh that's nothing, you want full retard just check the comment section... lol1
    Oh geez, what cancer. The article was bad enough...
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:38 pm

    The SR-71 has side looking sensors and flew along the border of the Soviet Union most of the time.

    Sometimes due to the shape of the border it will have clipped into Soviet territory for very short periods... not long enough to allow interception and certainly not when Soviet interceptors were around...



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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:The SR-71 has side looking sensors and flew along the border of the Soviet Union most of the time.

    Sometimes due to the shape of the border it will have clipped into Soviet territory for very short periods... not long enough to allow interception and certainly not when Soviet interceptors were around...


    I'm thinking of the annoying neighbourhood kid who pokes his tongue out and steps on your manicured lawn with one foot while you're watching... then when you open the front door the little f*cker runs away giggling... and brags to his idiot buddies that no-one can catch him...
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    kvs

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:30 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The SR-71 has side looking sensors and flew along the border of the Soviet Union most of the time.

    Sometimes due to the shape of the border it will have clipped into Soviet territory for very short periods... not long enough to allow interception and certainly not when Soviet interceptors were around...


    I'm thinking of the annoying neighbourhood kid who pokes his tongue out and steps on your manicured lawn with one foot while you're watching... then when you open the front door the little f*cker runs away giggling... and brags to his idiot buddies that no-one can catch him...

    Those USSR untermenschen must have had some nice late 1960s and early 1970s SAM systems to keep America's best
    spy plane dancing just outside its borders. Even after the 1990s collapse, Russian development of advanced missiles of
    all types did not stall and nothing was unlearned. American clowns who think that they own humanity's IQ are going to be
    in for a terminal shock when they face Russia's ABM shield.
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    BM-21

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  BM-21 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:56 pm

    New info on the Mig 41:

    MiG-41

    Perspective long-range intercept aircraft complex (PAC DP), or MiG-41, is being developed to replace the supersonic all-weather interceptor MiG-31 long-range interceptor. As reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the general director of the Russian aircraft-building corporation MiG Ilya Tarasenko, the MiG-41 will be an entirely new aircraft, constructed from a clean slate, rather than a deep modernization of the MiG-31.

    PAK DP will receive the whole arsenal of the latest technologies of combat aviation - it will become even faster, less noticeable, will receive an increased range of flight and, as Tarasenko said at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" in Moscow region Kubinka, work in space. Special attention will be paid to the MiG-41's work in the Arctic, but the most interesting is that later the aircraft will become unmanned.

    The development of a long-range fighter-interceptor is being conducted within the framework of the PAK DP program at the Mikoyan Design Bureau together with the Nizhny Novgorod Design Bureau of the Sokol aircraft plant. The development was started in 2013. A prospective aircraft is planned to be prepared before 2020 and replace it with the MiG-31, the life-span of which expires in 2028, although equal in speed fighter aircraft still does not exist in the world.





    - crappy google translation. Apparently from Ria Novosti. Can't post the link.
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    eehnie

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  eehnie on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:35 pm

    BM-21 wrote:New info on the Mig 41:

    MiG-41

    Perspective long-range intercept aircraft complex (PAC DP), or MiG-41, is being developed to replace the supersonic all-weather interceptor MiG-31 long-range interceptor. As reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the general director of the Russian aircraft-building corporation MiG Ilya Tarasenko, the MiG-41 will be an entirely new aircraft, constructed from a clean slate, rather than a deep modernization of the MiG-31.

    PAK DP will receive the whole arsenal of the latest technologies of combat aviation - it will become even faster, less noticeable, will receive an increased range of flight and, as Tarasenko said at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" in Moscow region Kubinka, work in space. Special attention will be paid to the MiG-41's work in the Arctic, but the most interesting is that later the aircraft will become unmanned.

    The development of a long-range fighter-interceptor is being conducted within the framework of the PAK DP program at the Mikoyan Design Bureau together with the Nizhny Novgorod Design Bureau of the Sokol aircraft plant. The development was started in 2013. A prospective aircraft is planned to be prepared before 2020 and replace it with the MiG-31, the life-span of which expires in 2028, although equal in speed fighter aircraft still does not exist in the world.





    - crappy google translation. Apparently from Ria Novosti. Can't post the link.

    This is the project where MiG need to focus strongly to work its prestige as aircraft designer and constructor. MiG, need to show its hability for innovation and to produce a technologically advanced aircraft.

    After decades the MiG-25/31 continues being the biggest technological flag of MiG.
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    BM-21

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    Re: MiG-41 New Interceptor:

    Post  BM-21 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:30 am

    eehnie wrote:
    BM-21 wrote:New info on the Mig 41:

    MiG-41

    Perspective long-range intercept aircraft complex (PAC DP), or MiG-41, is being developed to replace the supersonic all-weather interceptor MiG-31 long-range interceptor. As reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the general director of the Russian aircraft-building corporation MiG Ilya Tarasenko, the MiG-41 will be an entirely new aircraft, constructed from a clean slate, rather than a deep modernization of the MiG-31.

    PAK DP will receive the whole arsenal of the latest technologies of combat aviation - it will become even faster, less noticeable, will receive an increased range of flight and, as Tarasenko said at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" in Moscow region Kubinka, work in space. Special attention will be paid to the MiG-41's work in the Arctic, but the most interesting is that later the aircraft will become unmanned.

    The development of a long-range fighter-interceptor is being conducted within the framework of the PAK DP program at the Mikoyan Design Bureau together with the Nizhny Novgorod Design Bureau of the Sokol aircraft plant. The development was started in 2013. A prospective aircraft is planned to be prepared before 2020 and replace it with the MiG-31, the life-span of which expires in 2028, although equal in speed fighter aircraft still does not exist in the world.





    - crappy google translation. Apparently from Ria Novosti. Can't post the link.

    This is the project where MiG need to focus strongly to work its prestige as aircraft designer and constructor. MiG, need to show its hability for innovation and to produce a technologically advanced aircraft.

    After decades the MiG-25/31 continues being the biggest technological flag of MiG.


    Agree. This fighter would solve all of Russia's problems like the upcoming SR-72 and other high altitude, high speed drones. Just like the Mig-31 drove off the SR-71 the Mig-41 should be capable of protecting Russia's airspace from the SR-72. If a prototype comes out before 2020 then this will be huge.

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