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    Fate of Russia's old birds.

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    GarryB
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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:58 pm

    I would like to think that Russia still uses them, seems pretty crazy to get rid of them when u dont have a replacement

    Who said they don't have a replacement?

    Doesn't Russia have any secret programs anymore?

    the idea that they would withdraw the Mig-25 from service because maintaining its runway was too expensive... now at a time when it is upgrading everything... when Putin himself has said a Russian priority was the Russian North... sounds to me a bit fishy...


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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:49 am

    TR1 wrote:Ty ty.

    OT, but thinking about the forum- we should have a top banner competition. THe current one, while decent, looks a bit funky in certain places.

    I agree. I proposed something long ago before I went on a childish rant to Vlad (sorry Vlad) and left. Now that I am a bit older, calmer (works when you are a father) and a bit wiser, I would like to try this again. Although, my photoshop skills are nowhere what they were like before.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:27 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I would like to think that Russia still uses them, seems pretty crazy to get rid of them when u dont have a replacement

    Who said they don't have a replacement?

    Doesn't Russia have any secret programs anymore?

    the idea that they would withdraw the Mig-25 from service because maintaining its runway was too expensive... now at a time when it is upgrading everything... when Putin himself has said a Russian priority was the Russian North... sounds to me a bit fishy...


    yeah thats what i thought seems strange to get rid of something when you dont have a replacement, especially with the upgrading programmes going on.

    I know UCAV using some of the SKAT designs. but this wont be nowhere near the kind of speed the MIG 25 has.

    Would be good to some new aircraft but this is probably unlikely.

    shame as i like the MIG 25 and the legacy it has.

    nemrod
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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    But how does the the MIG 25 compare to a modern interceptor role??? can it still be usefull in this role???
    A comptetent pilot, inside an upgraded Mig-25, or Mig-23 could be redoutable. It seems to me a fair choice. After all, do not forget, that France has still 136 Mirage 2000, 19 Mirage F1, vs 87 Rafale. UK air force still has 112 Tornado vs 115 Typhoons. The only country in the world that could afford to get 4++ aircraft is US because of their economy. I said could afford, now, with the budget cuts, in the near future, the US air force, as the Navy must be downgrade.
    During the fight in Lebanon's Bekaa 1982-83, if we switch of the israeli propaganda -that claimed more than 80 syrian aircrafts vs 0 for Israel, it was a simple hoax, as Israel is an experts in this area-, as Vladimir Illyin, the behaviour of the Mig 23 seems to be excellent. I mean the Mig 23 ML of course.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    I think as far as drones go, they have there uses, but i think the MIG-25 has more advantages than the normal drones out there, faster speed being one. But are drones cheaper to operate/maintain and of course u still have to buy them.

    I think the drone promess was an illusion. The drone could be an excellent complement of the satelite, gathering observations, informations, and sometimes why not, attacking target against poor defended and low skills insurgents. The drone could be an excellent help for Ground infantery.
    However the RQ 170 Sentinell incident -when it was captured by the iranians in december 2001- set a definitive end of the drone' false dream. It prove that the human factor is still vital, and it could not be replaced by any robotics nowadays. If US sent an SR71 instead of the RQ 170, it would be a more success than this humiliation.
    Back to our subject a Mig-23, or Mig 25 could be more effective in order to do strategic reconnaissance, than any drones.




    Giulio
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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  Giulio on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:14 pm

    Nemrod, the Mig-25 has nothing in common with the planes you mentioned (Mirage, etc ...).
    The Mig-25 is a stratospheric interceptor that flies normally at altitudes unreachable for the other aircrafts except only SR-71 and U-2. This requires a totally different design.

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    MiG-25RB

    Post  Nagumo on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:01 am

    Hello, i have some questions about MiG-25RB series.

    1. What is under conical dielectric nosecone and what are under two tandem ventral dielectric panels of MiG-25RB? (under lateral dielectric panels is SRS-4 Romb-4)
    2. exist any photos of MiG-25RBN (night FOTINT), MiG-25RR (RINT) and MiR-25MR (meteorological recon)?
    3. It was build 27 MiGs-25R and 196 MiGs-25RB. How much from 196 is MiG-25RB, MiG-25RBS, MiG-25RBK, MiG-25RBV and MiG-25RBT?

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    MiG-25 Business Jet?

    Post  carrack on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:38 pm

    I don't know how practical it would have been, but it sounds like an awesome way to travel. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/26ad41ba71

    GarryB
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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:07 am

    the version of the Mig-25 I would have loved to have seen that never flew was a late proposal to fit the 15 ton thrust engines for the Mig-31 to the Mig-25 which had 11 ton thrust engines as standard.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  mutantsushi on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:46 am

    hostile take-over?

    d_taddei2
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    Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:10 am

    Hi all, wonder if anyone can share any information on what Russia has done or will do with its older fixed wing and rotary aircraft.
    for example the likes of:

    SU-17
    SU-24 (280, 70% to be replaced by SU-34)
    SU-25 (195, 80 to be upgraded)
    SU-27 (being upgraded)
    MIG-21
    MIG-23 (500 in reserve)
    MIG-25
    MIG-29

    TU-22 (107, 30 being upgraded)
    TU-95
    TU-160 (16, 10 being upgraded)

    L-39 (200, being replaced by YAK-130)

    MI-2
    MI-24 (298, includes some MI-35M approx 28)



    I know some of these are either way too old to be useful and some are still in service but are old and aging aswell as some being upgraded like SU-24, SU-25, SU-27 but only half of the fleet or less. I thought that maybe it would be for Russia to sell some of these aircraft cheap to poorer nations especially the likes of the L-39 would be ideal air forces on a shoe string budget. But no doubt Russia will either scrap them or store them intil they become rusting heaps of metal, seems to me to be a waste. I think Russia must have the largest stock pile of weapons, vehicles and aircraft in the world it just seems to horde them.

    So any information on any fate of any of these or anything else you can think of would be.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:34 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi all, wonder if anyone can share any information on what Russia has done or will do with its older fixed wing and rotary aircraft.
    for example the likes of:

    SU-17
    SU-24 (280, 70% to be replaced by SU-34)
    SU-25 (195, 80 to be upgraded)
    SU-27 (being upgraded)
    MIG-21
    MIG-23 (500 in reserve)
    MIG-25
    MIG-29

    TU-22 (107, 30 being upgraded)
    TU-95
    TU-160 (16, 10 being upgraded)

    L-39 (200, being replaced by YAK-130)

    MI-2
    MI-24 (298, includes some MI-35M approx 28)



    I know some of these are either way too old to be useful and some are still in service but are old and aging aswell as some being upgraded like SU-24, SU-25, SU-27 but only half of the fleet or less. I thought that maybe it would be for Russia to sell some of these aircraft cheap to poorer nations especially the likes of the L-39 would be ideal air forces on a shoe string budget. But no doubt Russia will either scrap them or store them intil they become rusting heaps of metal, seems to me to be a waste. I think Russia must have the largest stock pile of weapons, vehicles and aircraft in the world it just seems to horde them.

    So any information on any fate of any of these or anything else you can think of would be.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2900-general-questions-thread

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:00 am

    George1 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi all, wonder if anyone can share any information on what Russia has done or will do with its older fixed wing and rotary aircraft.
    for example the likes of:

    SU-17
    SU-24 (280, 70% to be replaced by SU-34)
    SU-25 (195, 80 to be upgraded)
    SU-27 (being upgraded)
    MIG-21
    MIG-23 (500 in reserve)
    MIG-25
    MIG-29

    TU-22 (107, 30 being upgraded)
    TU-95
    TU-160 (16, 10 being upgraded)

    L-39 (200, being replaced by YAK-130)

    MI-2
    MI-24 (298, includes some MI-35M approx 28)



    I know some of these are either way too old to be useful and some are still in service but are old and aging aswell as some being upgraded like SU-24, SU-25, SU-27 but only half of the fleet or less. I thought that maybe it would be for Russia to sell some of these aircraft cheap to poorer nations especially the likes of the L-39 would be ideal air forces on a shoe string budget. But no doubt Russia will either scrap them or store them intil they become rusting heaps of metal, seems to me to be a waste. I think Russia must have the largest stock pile of weapons, vehicles and aircraft in the world it just seems to horde them.

    So any information on any fate of any of these or anything else you can think of would be.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2900-general-questions-thread

    Hi George sorry I don't think that thread has any information of the question I have asked, but if you are referring to that maybe I should have posted it there, then the reason I didn't is I don't think people would have even looked at the general question thread.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:12 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi all, wonder if anyone can share any information on what Russia has done or will do with its older fixed wing and rotary aircraft.
    for example the likes of:

    SU-17
    SU-24 (280, 70% to be replaced by SU-34)
    SU-25 (195, 80 to be upgraded)
    SU-27 (being upgraded)
    MIG-21
    MIG-23 (500 in reserve)
    MIG-25
    MIG-29

    TU-22 (107, 30 being upgraded)
    TU-95
    TU-160 (16, 10 being upgraded)

    L-39 (200, being replaced by YAK-130)

    MI-2
    MI-24 (298, includes some MI-35M approx 28)



    I know some of these are either way too old to be useful and some are still in service but are old and aging aswell as some being upgraded like SU-24, SU-25, SU-27 but only half of the fleet or less. I thought that maybe it would be for Russia to sell some of these aircraft cheap to poorer nations especially the likes of the L-39 would be ideal air forces on a shoe string budget. But no doubt Russia will either scrap them or store them intil they become rusting heaps of metal, seems to me to be a waste. I think Russia must have the largest stock pile of weapons, vehicles and aircraft in the world it just seems to horde them.

    So any information on any fate of any of these or anything else you can think of would be.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2900-general-questions-thread

    Hi George sorry I don't think that thread has any information of the question I have asked, but if you are referring to that maybe I should have posted it there, then the reason I didn't is I don't think people would have even looked at the general question thread.

    My understanding has always been that it is very hard to buy the old stuff from the Russians. The reason, in my opinion, is different from what is sometimes mentioned in certain circles which attribute it to economical "considerations".

    My view is that the nonexportable Russian systems almost always have nonexportable technologies that simply are too advanced and/or too secret for release to the rest of the world. That even applies to very very old systems. As an example, an export model Su-27 can be exported, but a retired nonexportable MiG-21S still can't.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:29 pm

    In the recent top gun like training competition at least 10 L-39s were used as targets.

    I also know that they have converted a few other types as flying drones including the MiG-23M.

    The interesting thing is that because they are not expected to last very long the restrictions on flight and speed performance can be loosened so they can fly faster and higher than the original specs allowed.

    Remember sales of older aircraft would have limited appeal if the parts and support is not available to keep them operational.

    An existing user of equipment might find it useful, but a new user would struggle I suspect to get up to speed and use even older equipment to its potential any time soon.


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    MiG-23 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Nagumo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:59 pm

    Hallo. I have any question. Is two-seater MiGs-23UB still in service in Russia? Fighter-bomber variants was retiered in 1997, pure fighter variants in 1999 and two-seaters ?

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:04 pm

    As I know, they are all retired and placed in reserve.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:26 am

    Only version of the MiG-23 still in service/use would likely be the M-23, which is a remotely operated drone conversion of the MiG-23 fighter for use in training air defence forces, navy and army forces.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  Nagumo on Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:34 pm

    M-23, these version of Mig-23 i don't Know. Any photo?

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  Mike E on Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:29 pm

    I can't find any pics, but it should look exactly like a MiG-23.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:45 am

    They basically use any model plane they have in storage, fit it with remote control equipment so it can be flown remotely.

    The specs I have for the M-23 say the near ground top speed can be raised from 1,350km/h for the manned version to 1,440km/h in the remote controlled model.

    High altitude speed goes from Mach 2.35 of the manned version to Mach 2.5 in the unmanned model.

    G load is increased from 8 for the standard manned model to 12 on the unmanned model.

    Externally they look like the plane they were based on.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:57 am

    GarryB wrote:They basically use any model plane they have in storage, fit it with remote control equipment so it can be flown remotely.

    The specs I have for the M-23 say the near ground top speed can be raised from 1,350km/h for the manned version to 1,440km/h in the remote controlled model.

    High altitude speed goes from Mach 2.35 of the manned version to Mach 2.5 in the unmanned model.

    G load is increased from 8 for the standard manned model to 12 on the unmanned model.

    Externally they look like the plane they were based on.
    So basically they are the MiG equivalent of the unmanned F-4's...

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:19 am

    Pretty much...

    Though looking at some of the photos from VOSTOK2014 of some of the ground targets there are plenty of shots of L-39s and MiG-25s being blown to bits... I wonder how many MiG-23s will be there now or next?


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    MIG-25 is it still in service??????

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:10 pm

    hi all, i read an article about the MIG-25 and that Russia has retired the aircraft, is this true? i cant find the article again and havent seen anything else on the net saying so.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:01 am

    The MiG-25 has long been replaced by the currently in service MiG-31, and its respective variants.

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    Re: Fate of Russia's old birds.

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:26 am

    The interceptor models are long gone, but there were a few recon models in reserve for a while after the interceptors were retired.


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