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    Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:09 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

    They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.


    Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject  Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

    Russians started bying foreign liners when domestic factories went to hell, even today they wouldnt be bying domestic if there wasnt pressure from the gov. Its big difference if you operate 3 types of foreign liners or 2 foreign and 1 domestic or 3 domestic. Also SSJ100 is being produced for quite a few years now, if they wanted it they could have ordered it even before 2010. And spares for SSJ would come via Russia when its about Western equipment not directly from suppliers if that was the point if sanction dependent part.

    Russians needed money, if someone came to Tupolev in 2005. and said he wants 100 liners, they would sure as hell start production. Iran was simply waiting for sanctions to be halted to get Airbus or Boeing. At least that is what i get from whole this story. They tho had 6-7 major accidents featuring USSR/Russian liners and transport aircrafts which probably killed near 1000 people, that did not help much either.

    I dont think any major EU/US based company operates anything Russian or Chinese. Some Fokkers, Bombardiers, Saabs occasionally but majority is Airbus/Boeing.
    Nope.  Russia got foreign airliners because of boeing and airbus lobbying and auditing organizations.  Essentially, competition was snuffed out due to this.  It was noted quite a while ago and recent video vann posted where they talked about this.

    @Kote

    And in a strategic partnership, countries need to help each other out.  Russia has all that is needed. You think Russia doesnt have a strong metallurgy industry? Theirs is one of the biggest and even India is purchasing from them. Same with US.  Airliners? Sukhoi Superjet is one of them available.   We were promised Russia would get billions in contracts.  So far? Those billions are not to Russia.

    You people cannot see beyond a gun sight.  Economics is what will make Russia strong.  But these consulting firms is the factor as to why Sukhoi civil aircrafts are failing to get decent sales.  Total fucking failure on Russias authorities and business.  And Iran isnt helping at all.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:21 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

    They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.


    Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject  Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

    Russians started bying foreign liners when domestic factories went to hell, even today they wouldnt be bying domestic if there wasnt pressure from the gov. Its big difference if you operate 3 types of foreign liners or 2 foreign and 1 domestic or 3 domestic. Also SSJ100 is being produced for quite a few years now, if they wanted it they could have ordered it even before 2010. And spares for SSJ would come via Russia when its about Western equipment not directly from suppliers if that was the point if sanction dependent part.

    Russians needed money, if someone came to Tupolev in 2005. and said he wants 100 liners, they would sure as hell start production. Iran was simply waiting for sanctions to be halted to get Airbus or Boeing. At least that is what i get from whole this story. They tho had 6-7 major accidents featuring USSR/Russian liners and transport aircrafts which probably killed near 1000 people, that did not help much either.

    I dont think any major EU/US based company operates anything Russian or Chinese. Some Fokkers, Bombardiers, Saabs occasionally but majority is Airbus/Boeing.
    Nope.  Russia got foreign airliners because of boeing and airbus lobbying and auditing organizations.  Essentially, competition was snuffed out due to this.  It was noted quite a while ago and recent video vann posted where they talked about this.

    @Kote

    And in a strategic partnership, countries need to help each other out.  Russia has all that is needed. You think Russia doesnt have a strong metallurgy industry? Theirs is one of the biggest and even India is purchasing from them. Same with US.  Airliners? Sukhoi Superjet is one of them available.

    You people cannot see beyond a gun sight.  Economics is what will make Russia strong.  But these consulting firms is the factor as to why Sukhoi civil aircrafts are failing to get decent sales.  Total fucking failure on Russias authorities and business.  And Iran isnt helping at all.

    Yeah the problem is that Tehran needs carrots for its own purpose. You have to understand that by picking Russia and China alone, Iran doesn't get some other aspects of the dual trade.

    For instance the Amafond deal with Italy is directly related to the Khodro plants that have been in disarray for almost a decade now. They're still assembling Peugeot 405's FFS. That's 1980's technology.

    Also so we can get some context on this. The first actual MOU that Italians had with Iran was done in Moscow in 2013...at Litmash 2013. The same Russians were trying to get some of the same deals with Finmeccanica/Amafond. If that's NOT a recognition of a certain interest that Italian machinery has for Rasha, I don't know what that is.

    Iran isn't helping? Yeah sure, Iran is helping with its blood and strategic interests (they're outsourcing most of their Nuclear Program to Russia FFS). Now chill, you're getting overworked. That's the kind of client State mentality Russia doesn't need to instill to its partners (FFS it didn't even do that to U crying).




    sepheronx
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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:29 pm

    Ok, so where are these billions that were potential for Russia?  I dont see it anywhere.  Few nuclear plants is nothing, and the amount further in loss of oil trade will not make things dandy.

    I see Russias civil airlines are doing well, with all this trade to Iran.  Heck, Iran was sanctioned for 30 years because US didnt like them, then EU sanctioned them.  So what makes them think they wont get sanctioned again? Good luck buying spares.  Iranians died by a lot of plane crashes due to poor maintenance.  Lack of spare parts.  Not just from Russian jets either.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Ok, so where are these billions that were potential for Russia?  I dont see it anywhere.  Few nuclear plants is nothing, and the amount further in loss of oil trade will not make things dandy.

    I see Russias civil airlines are doing well, with all this trade to Iran.  Heck, Iran was sanctioned for 30 years because US didnt like them, then EU sanctioned them.  So what makes them think they wont get sanctioned again? Good luck buying spares.  Iranians died by a lot of plane crashes due to poor maintenance.  Lack of spare parts.  Not just from Russian jets either.

    That's why it's called carrots. Iran bets on putting a carrot between the US and EU. That's as needed as buying from Rasha.

    The other issue is also that the real problem for Iran is the banking sector. While Russia can fight back to a point Iran can't.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:38 pm

    with the lifting of sanctions Iran doesn't want to isolate itself by only giving deals to Russia who currently has a raft of sanctions against it, Iran is on the path to try and win hearts and minds, if you think about it if it srikes up deals with many countries and gains a lot of investment as well, how many countries in the future are likely want to agree to sanctions when they have invested money into Iran and sign deals for Billions of $, but if they didnt have any deals etc then they would be more likely to agree to sanctions in the future. Iran wants to show the world it isn't a bad country that the USA, Israel and the media has been portraying, the more infulence Iran can exude the better. But Iran will want to re-arm its armed forces and quickly Russia, China and Belarus are the only countries that would be willing to do so. So i wouldnt be surprised if deals start to roll soon, but Iran can't be seen to hammer out massive arms deal as soon as the sanctions have been lifted as this would show it in a bad light proving to the world the USA, Israel and the media to be right that Iran wants to be an aggressive country. I just hope that Iran sticks to buying Russian made equipment after what Russia has done for them, and i certainly hope that it won't waste anymore money on its crappy home grown sub-standard aircraft, and instead buy Mig-29/35, Su-30/35, and Su-34 instead.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E on Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:38 pm

    The current contracts contain little or no technology transfer but only consumption of products. These agreements also hurt the Iranian economy. See the contracts for the purchase of railway cars. This presented Iran in good quality here itself. The purchase is not necessary here and happened anyway.

    A production line for TU204 / 214 in Iran would be the better way. 24 aircraft will be purchased and produced in Iran itself, further 24 from Russia. For this purpose, 2x24 as an option. This creates the look young well-educated people in Iran jobs and the country increases its quality in aircraft and the whole production line in this area.

    The same could do together in the field of SoC ARM Iran with Russia. Or in the field of shipbuilding.

    The government Rohani's pro West and that means also to loads as a market currying the Iranian development and jobs. What Achmadinischad wanted strictly and manufacturing declined in their own country itself makes Rohani broken now.

    Also I see a serious suspicion that 32 billion US Dollar which has now been released must be spent in the West first. That is probably a clandestine Bedigung and a further test.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:16 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: Its not like Iran wants 100 liners in 2 years. They will obtain them though probably though 10 years deal or something of a sort. Russia could do the same with no particular issues.

    Russia does not manufacture wide-body liners, if Iran buys MS-21 so this takes 2x longer then airbus.
    Tu-204? how many per year now 1-2? can be max 8? so 100 in 15 years including developing prod capabilities?

    They are just pragmatic. and nobody says they will not buy from Russia more nuclear PPs or even MS-21 one will be available.

    I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

    They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.


    Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:21 am

    Don't get your hopes too high with IRAN "partnership" with Russia.
    They are openly pushing for a Gas pipeline to Europe to replace Russia Gazprom business
    there. The president said recently *is ready* to replace Europe dependence on Russia Gas
    Energy business with its own pipeline and is calling for Investors.. This is like the the 10th time
    he calls for European investors to jump in the project and help them destroy Russia energy business with Europe..  The IRANIAN rats will stab anyone including Russia
    if they could get a profit from it.  

    and buying technology from Europe like there is no tomorrow, that also Russia could provide ,but choose with them. Like the dozens of Airbus planes . Simply Russia cannot look at Iran at any
    other way than sales and nothing more.

    Imagine that you have a restaurant for a decade in a key zone..and then a
    so called "allied nation" goes and mount another restaurant right in front of yours to take away clients from you? What kind of "partners" and "friends" are that? it is really disgusting the
    kind of ethics of the Iranian snakes , Russia helped them to get out of the sanctions and the first thing they do is stab Russia in the back.  THis is the only reason Kerry and Obama are talking
    to IRAN , and lifted the sanctions to use IRAN to steal Russia business with Europe.

    So don't get your hopes with the iranian rats in any alliance with Russia.
    They betrayed Syria for 5 years ,even though they had a defense pact to help each other
    and IRAN did nothing to help Syria fight the terrorist that Israel and Turkey send across borders. It is only when Russia jump to help that iran select a dozen hundred of volunteer
    mercenaries that are not even Iranians but Iraquis.  So much for the Iranian "partnership".
    Russia should not lower its guard with IRAN , is a living snake that will betray Russia at the first
    opportunity or deal they receive from the west.  My view about IRAN is similar to North korea ,
    is a regime that needs to fall and its dictator fanatical leadership both kim jon um and the Ayatola needs to be remove and a real secular free modern nation put in place. And down with the "Religious" fanatical states that impose by force or violence their ideas on all the population.
    And neither i believe they should be allowed to have Nuclear weapons ,neither Israel. or Pakistan or North Korea.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:47 am; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7
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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:45 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:

    Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

    Iran is buying planes and giving money to (France) the same nations responsible for the war
    against their allies Syria. Imagine if Syria began to close relations with Israel ,and start
    giving spending money in Israel ,money they can use to buy more bombs against Palestinians,
    would that be a betray to IRAN? of course it will.. And IRAN are seeking to get a pipeline with Turkey to Europe to help not only Erdogan economy to shutdown more Russian planes ,but to also damage Russia Gas business with Europe.

    Iranian are RATS plain and simple , they marry with no one and their loyalty is with words
    not actions. 5 years after Syria in the middle of a war , and not a single Iranian soldier sent
    to Syria to fight , only volunteers iraquis and permega kurds. It was Putin who told Assad how
    he have been left Alone without any neighbors help. So the message for Russia and so Syria
    should be to have zero commitment with the Iranians . Syria got in trouble with Israel for following Iran interest and it blowback at them.. Assad was asked by Americans to end its relations with IRAN and make peace with Israel in 2011 ,before the foreign CIA revolution began. And he refused to not damage relations with IRAN.. and see how IRAN now behaves
    that was given a chance to boost its economy. This is why Russia should never move a finger
    for IRAN ,not even if the whole country is nuked by Israel.. Traitors that put in second place
    the relations with their allies ,when an economic offer show up ,show not be defended.

    If it was not by Russia airforce in Syria ,the Iranians will have never sent a single fighter to Syria. and IRAN have an obligation to defend Syria in case of war since they both have a defense pact for years..

    and no im not suggesting any friendship with Israel , but Syria could have played better its cards and even avoided a war ,if just ditched IRAN and Hezbolah friendship and remain neutral nation in change for be left alone and in peace. Israel is attacking Syria ,helped organize the
    CIA revolution , simply because of Syria relation with IRAN and Hezbolah. Moral of the Story ,
    no nation in middle east ,neither Russia , should make any pact with the Iranian rats.
    They will only operate only if anything is good profits for them.. and leave any relations for second or third place.





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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  par far on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:54 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:

    Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

    Iran is buying planes and giving money to (France) the same nations responsible for the war
    against their allies Syria.  Imagine if Syria began to close relations with Israel ,and start
    giving spending money in Israel ,money they can use to buy more bombs against Palestinians,
    would that be a betray to IRAN?  of course it will..  And IRAN are seeking to get a pipeline with Turkey to Europe to help not only Erdogan economy to shutdown more Russian planes ,but to also damage Russia Gas business with Europe.

    Iranian are RATS plain and simple , they marry with no one and their loyalty is with words
    not actions. 5 years after Syria in the middle of a war , and not a single Iranian soldier sent
    to Syria to fight , only volunteers iraquis and permega kurds.  It was Putin who told Assad how
    he have been left Alone without any neighbors help. So the message for Russia and so Syria
    should be to have zero commitment with the Iranians .  Syria got in trouble with Israel for following Iran interest and it blowback at them.. Assad was asked by Americans to end its relations with IRAN and make peace with Israel in 2011 ,before the foreign CIA revolution began. And he refused to not damage relations with IRAN.. and see how IRAN now behaves
    that was given a chance to boost its economy. This is why Russia should never move a finger
    for IRAN ,not even if the whole country is nuked by Israel.. Traitors that put in second place
    the relations with their allies ,when an economic offer show up ,show not be defended.

    If it was not by Russia airforce in Syria ,the Iranians will have never sent a single fighter to Syria. and IRAN have an obligation to defend Syria in case of war since they both have a defense pact for years..

    and no im not suggesting any friendship with Israel , but Syria could have played better its cards and even avoided a war ,if just ditched IRAN and Hezbolah friendship and remain neutral nation in change for be left alone and in peace.  Israel is attacking Syria ,helped organize the
    CIA revolution , simply because of Syria relation with IRAN and Hezbolah. Moral of the Story ,
    no nation in middle east ,neither Russia , should make any pact with the Iranian rats.
    They will only operate only if anything is good profits for them.. and leave any relations for second or third place.





    Let's not forget that Russia was also in on sanctions on Iran, remember when Medevev was having picnics in the US, the rest of your logic is just stupid.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:22 am

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160127/1033760242/canada-iran-sanctions.html

    Canada wants to get in on the Iran aircraft market. Don't forget, our crappy C-400's finally lost out in the end and Sukhoi Super Jet and MS-21 is a far better deal. I guarantee you though Iran will go for it because of being simply vassals now.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:12 am

    As mentioned... Iran has been in prison rightly or wrongly and has to garner favour with friends and enemies to make sure they don't get put back again rightly or wrongly.

    Iran was never going to be a new best buddy ally for Russia in the region... they have their own interests, just as Russia does.

    The thing is that russia no longer has an ideology to push... just like China is not spreading communism wherever it goes, Russia no longer has that lodestone around its neck.

    This means that Iran will have less problems in future with trade with Russia, but most trade deals of military and non military natures have strings attached. Iran buying airbuses is more than just buying civilian aircraft... it is an economic link with France that may be useful in the future if the US gets shitty and wants to put the sanctions back in place...

    Either way, Iran is getting back open for business, which means another country that has some money to spend, a military force to upgrade with either military purchases or joint venture upgrades of existing systems and weapons. Previously Russia was not that successful, but in he near future I think they will be more so simply because they offer much better products now and are still reasonably priced. They are also in the process of rebuilding and upgrading their military forces so they can share a lot of information and offer partnerships rather than client customer type relationships.


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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:46 am

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:The current contracts contain little or no technology transfer but only consumption of products. These agreements also hurt the Iranian economy. See the contracts for the purchase of railway cars. This presented Iran in good quality here itself. The purchase is not necessary here and happened anyway.

    A production line for TU204 / 214 in Iran would be the better way. 24 aircraft will be purchased and produced in Iran itself, further 24 from Russia. For this purpose, 2x24 as an option. This creates the look young well-educated people in Iran jobs and the country increases its quality in aircraft and the whole production line in this area.

    This would require active push form Russian leadership, let´s agree invisible hand of free market is as real as Superman.




    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    Also I see a serious suspicion that 32 billion US Dollar which has now been released must be spent in the West first. That is probably a clandestine Bedigung and a further test.

    Me thinks too. Most probably this is a reason for gradual release of tranches.



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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:55 am

    Iran buys up to 127 Airbus aircraft

    http://www.interfax.ru/business/491328

    Moscow. On 25 January. INTERFAX.RU – Iran intends to modernize the civil air fleet and plans to buy up to 127 aircraft by the European aircraft company Airbus, reports Deutsche Welle.

    The contract for the supply of machines may be signed in January. The Iranian side expects to receive the aircraft between 2016 and 2022, said Deputy Minister of transport and urban development of the country Fahriye Asghar Kashan.

    Tehran is interested in buying 16 aircraft, the A350, designed for long distance flights, as well as other models - the A320, A330, A340. According to him, Iran is also ready to order the 8's biggest aircraft A380.

    The country's leadership also is considering the acquisition of 100 aircraft of the American company Boeing.

    Previously imposed U.S. trade sanctions against Iran remain in force, however, the Boeing Corporation can apply for a special exception to the rule. At the same time the representative of the American aviation concern stated that until a decision on the sale of aircraft to Iran will have to overcome many stages, reports the BBC.

    Transport Minister of Iran Abbas Akhundi stated that the Airbus deal will be signed Monday during the visit of President Hassan Rouhani in Paris, write to Iranian media.

    According to representatives of Western countries and Tehran, in the coming decade, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft to update the fleet of the country. The average age of Iran's civil aircraft is approximately 27 years.

    European authorities have banned all Iranian aircraft in addition to 12 aircraft to use the airspace of EU countries due to the harmonization of international safety standards in civil aviation.

    On the Iran Air website contains the information that its fleet consists of 43 aircraft. Iran Air has the compartment for cargo and low-cost subsidiary airline.

    Fundi previously said that out of a total of 250 aircraft only 150 able to rise into the air. According to him, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft medium and long range, and 100 aircraft to service shorter routes. The Minister expressed the hope that the new European aircraft brand Airbus will start to arrive in the country at the end of March.


    So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure


    GarryB wrote:As mentioned... Iran has been in prison rightly or wrongly and has to garner favour with friends and enemies to make sure they don't get put back again rightly or wrongly.

    Iran was never going to be a new best buddy ally for Russia in the region... they have their own interests, just as Russia does.

    The thing is that russia no longer has an ideology to push... just like China is not spreading communism wherever it goes, Russia no longer has that lodestone around its neck.

    This means that Iran will have less problems in future with trade with Russia, but most trade deals of military and non military natures have strings attached.  Iran buying airbuses is more than just buying civilian aircraft... it is an economic link with France that may be useful in the future if the US gets shitty and wants to put the sanctions back in place...

    Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

    BTW China is spreading communism:face: ?

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Bidoul on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:15 pm

    France has long lobbied for lifting the sanctions on Iran.

    As far as under Chirac, which publicly said it wasn't even a problem if Iran got nukes... France was actually (out of the west) the one hurt the most by the sanctions in bilateral trade.

    So that's not surprising, long and deep links too.



    (Iconic photo of Khomeini coming back from is exile... Plane is an Airbus, crew is Air France, pilot helping him is french. Spend his last exile years in France).

    Russia wins from the strategic point of view (having a better Iranian economy and having them in the SCO means a stronger ally in the middle east), France wins commercially... (I warn you so that you won't go " Putin is a traitor" France will likely get the nuclear deal too... because of a prior engagement. French enrichment industry was initially a joint Iranian/French project and funded mostly by Iranian oil money. France literally OWES Iran tons of enriched Uranium...)

    It's likely going to be a mix of Russian and French that gets most contracts, possibly one big for the US if there was something they really were interested in.

    That's how diplomacy works.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:25 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160127/1033760242/canada-iran-sanctions.html

    Canada wants to get in on the Iran aircraft market.  Don't forget, our crappy C-400's finally lost out in the end and Sukhoi Super Jet and MS-21 is a far better deal.  I guarantee you though Iran will go for it because of being simply vassals now.

    I like alot Bombardier Global series, they can be modified to suit multiple military roles too http://businessaircraft.bombardier.com/en/aircraft/global/global6000.html

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:04 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Iran buys up to 127 Airbus aircraft

    http://www.interfax.ru/business/491328

    Moscow. On 25 January. INTERFAX.RU – Iran intends to modernize the civil air fleet and plans to buy up to 127 aircraft by the European aircraft company Airbus, reports Deutsche Welle.

    The contract for the supply of machines may be signed in January. The Iranian side expects to receive the aircraft between 2016 and 2022, said Deputy Minister of transport and urban development of the country Fahriye Asghar Kashan.

    Tehran is interested in buying 16 aircraft, the A350, designed for long distance flights, as well as other models - the A320, A330, A340. According to him, Iran is also ready to order the 8's biggest aircraft A380.

    The country's leadership also is considering the acquisition of 100 aircraft of the American company Boeing.

    Previously imposed U.S. trade sanctions against Iran remain in force, however, the Boeing Corporation can apply for a special exception to the rule. At the same time the representative of the American aviation concern stated that until a decision on the sale of aircraft to Iran will have to overcome many stages, reports the BBC.

    Transport Minister of Iran Abbas Akhundi stated that the Airbus deal will be signed Monday during the visit of President Hassan Rouhani in Paris, write to Iranian media.

    According to representatives of Western countries and Tehran, in the coming decade, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft to update the fleet of the country. The average age of Iran's civil aircraft is approximately 27 years.

    European authorities have banned all Iranian aircraft in addition to 12 aircraft to use the airspace of EU countries due to the harmonization of international safety standards in civil aviation.

    On the Iran Air website contains the information that its fleet consists of 43 aircraft. Iran Air has the compartment for cargo and low-cost subsidiary airline.

    Fundi previously said that out of a total of 250 aircraft only 150 able to rise into the air. According to him, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft medium and long range, and 100 aircraft to service shorter routes. The Minister expressed the hope that the new European aircraft brand Airbus will start to arrive in the country at the end of March.


    So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

    You know, i am gonna laugh when the U.S decides to forbid France from exporting such "sensitive" aircraft to Iran. Wink

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:56 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote: You know, i am gonna laugh when the U.S decides to forbid France from exporting such "sensitive" aircraft to Iran. Wink

    Depending on how close US bankruptcy is might be only "compensation for CO2" emissions or similar kinda BS Smile

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:53 am

    So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

    The advantage Russia will have is that they can offer domestic production for Iran so it can boost its own local industries as well as expand its transport fleet.

    Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

    It will never guarantee to make Iran sanction proof but it creates supporters within countries that have vested interests to block sanctions motivated by politics. For the Mistral case, the ship builders in France are clearly not as powerful as the agriculture section in France. It would be interesting to see what Russia got for not delivering S-300s to Iran...

    BTW China is spreading communism:face: ?

    Please re read what I wrote. Chinas commercial export success is in part because it is not trying to impose its ideology along with selling and buying products. Russia does not have an ideology to sell now either, so it should be in the same situation.

    (I warn you so that you won't go " Putin is a traitor" France will likely get the nuclear deal too... because of a prior engagement. French enrichment industry was initially a joint Iranian/French project and funded mostly by Iranian oil money. France literally OWES Iran tons of enriched Uranium...)

    Funny you mention that because it was Iranian money that designed and built the UK Challenger tank with its Chobham armour... the british would have been stuck with crap tanks if it wasn't for Iran.


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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:20 am

    GarryB wrote:
    So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

    The advantage Russia will have is that they can offer domestic production for Iran so it can boost its own local industries as well as expand its transport fleet.

    I agree that offsetting parts of aircraft production would help similarly as in india. With mutual benefit. In current state Russian actor need some time to reach peak. It is not only matter of machines but processes, skilled engineers/workers and capital...




    GarryB wrote:
    Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

    It will never guarantee to make Iran sanction proof but it creates supporters within countries that have vested interests to block sanctions motivated by politics. For the Mistral case, the ship builders in France are clearly not as powerful as the agriculture section in France. It would be interesting to see what Russia got for not delivering S-300s to Iran...

    Taking account on length of sanctions agricultural lobby is not powerful enough either.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:27 am

    i don't quite follow vann's vitriol against iran. the lifting of sanctions means that iran will now trade freely with ALL countries including Russia... as middle eastern nations they are acutely aware that they need to "spread" orders around even in unfavourable deals for the sake of buying economic/political legitimacy around the world. There's nothing wrong with that really. There'll definitely be business collaboration with Russia going forward AS WELL AS with other nations... as is the norm.

    With regards to the question of airliners, I would say that Sukhoi have to slowly and surely build up brand awareness to build up its base in this very competitive and increasingly crowded market... with airbus, boeing, bombardier, embraer and now china and japan also muscling in to the short haul jet sector picking up business will depend a lot on financing deals, service facilities, uptime guarantees .... all producers are scrambling to do the exact same thing, and really there's not that much marginal difference in cost per passenger mile between all the offerings.... financing / leasing / insurance costs are probably a bigger factor than the planes themselves. Russian manufacturers need to come up with better finance / lease / insurance packages to make their products viable... when competing with the very financialised european / american offerings.


    Last edited by sheytanelkebir on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:28 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:i don't quite follow vann's vitriol against iran. the lifting of sanctions means that iran will now trade freely with ALL countries including Russia... as middle eastern nations they are acutely aware that they need to "spread" orders around even in unfavourable deals for the sake of buying economic/political legitimacy around the world. There's nothing wrong with that really. There'll definitely be business collaboration with Russia going forward AS WELL AS with other nations... as is the norm.

    With regards to the question of airliners, I would say that Sukhoi have to slowly and surely build up brand awareness to build up its base in this very competitive and increasingly crowded market... with airbus, boeing, bombardier, embraer and now china and japan also muscling in to the short haul jet sector picking up business will depend a lot on financing deals, service facilities, uptime guarantees .... all producers are scrambling to do the exact same thing, and really there's not that much marginal difference in cost per passenger mile between all the offerings.... financing / leasing / insurance costs are probably a bigger factor than the planes themselves.

    Same here wtf?

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:19 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

    The advantage Russia will have is that they can offer domestic production for Iran so it can boost its own local industries as well as expand its transport fleet.

    I agree that offsetting parts of aircraft production would help similarly as in india. With mutual benefit. In current state Russian actor need some time to reach peak. It is not only matter of machines but processes, skilled engineers/workers and capital...

    But sourcing parts to India isnt actually helping Russia.  Instead, India wants to purchase more western systems even if it means no localized production which we are seeing, and then at same time demanding 50/50 share in a project they didnt fund or even develop anything for it.

    And even the fact Russia offered Iran co production of SSJ-100, they are still buying other countries aircrafts.

    As for the claim that bombardier has a setup already - thats a joke. i live in Canada so I may have a better clue here but Bombardier is a fricking mess of a company and nearly went bankrupt more than one time.  Now for the failure the C400 was, it needs bailing out again.

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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:31 am

    He was possibly assuming that because the primary force behind the sanctions in the first place were western that perhaps that would be the last place they would spend their money once the sanctions were stopped.

    Forgetting of course that Russia and Iran were never best buddies anyway and that Russia supported the sanctions too.


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    Re: Iran–Russia strategic partnership:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:59 am

    sepheronx wrote: But sourcing parts to India isnt actually helping Russia.  Instead, India wants to purchase more western systems even if it means no localized production which we are seeing, and then at same time demanding 50/50 share in a project they didnt fund or even develop anything for it.

    And even the fact Russia offered Iran co production of SSJ-100, they are still buying other countries aircrafts.

    As for the claim that bombardier has a setup already - thats a joke. i live in Canada so I may have a better clue here but Bombardier is a fricking mess of a company and nearly went bankrupt more than one time.  Now for the failure the C400 was, it needs bailing out again.


    I am not saying Iran want spend billions in Russia and only there!  My point is let´s wait,  csome aces still can be in sleeve.  Please not ethat:

    1) Why offset in production is bad? first Russia factories have no needed thru-put yet. Second production of parts for Russian planes requires assuming Russian standards, materials processes.  Besides you get automatically a partner inside country who wants to cooperate with you.

    2) Sukhoi Civil part was according to press on verge of bankruptcy...

    3) True Russia offered production according to press  but how many business delegations or incentives were given to Iran we do not know. My guess is that for some reason there is no visible push from Russia govt to help negotiate with Iran non military deals?





    GarryB wrote:He was possibly assuming that because the primary force behind the sanctions in the first place were western that perhaps that would be the last place they would spend their money once the sanctions were stopped.

    Forgetting of course that Russia and Iran were never best buddies anyway and that Russia supported the sanctions too.

    Probably you´re right but I would rather say there is no love in intl relations only interest. Iran in foreseable future might be close to Russia but helping with deals (finacing?) also helps.

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