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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

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    Militarov

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:50 am



    Check this one, Azeris shot down their own Orbiter drone and they are celebrating it, ended even on TV...
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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:05 am

    Bre, already asked to AttilA about it. We should set up a common PID outlet, easy money.
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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  TheGeorgian on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:54 pm

    Militarov wrote:More shots of Aze equipment:




    Classic aggressive reconnaissance and probe operation with little territorial gain. I don't know how much it benefited the Azeri military in updating their intel on the NKR defences and response capabilities but at what cost anyway ? replenishing such spicy losses gonna take a while. If we go by official figures the Armenians may have lost a considerable amount of troops and material as well but those were "mere" frontline troops. Azeris on the other hand lost a significant number of commandos and it seems most if not all those infiltration units that were deployed, got annhiliated.
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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  franco on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:23 pm

    Two sides exchanged war dead today.

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AttilaA on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:07 pm

    @TheGeorgian

    First of all check the article I posted above. Azerbaijan captured heights around Talysh village and in Fuzuli-Jabrail. It was done witj the support of heavy equipment. Al-Jazeera made a report from Talysh heights.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o18zMbBcle8

    It's the same area which you can see in the link below, and you can clearly see the captured Armenian post.

    http://www.anspress.com/siyaset/07-04-2016/ans-in-cekilis-qrupu-kecmis-ermeni-movqeyinde

    Meanwhile, equipment left behind in a former Armenian post, including 3 Metis (which has never existed in Azerbaijan's inventory, while you can find photos of it in Armenian use).





    Last edited by AttilaA on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:23 am; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AttilaA on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:29 pm

    Regarding "material losses", Azerbaijan lost one helicopter, 1 tank (mine explosion), few UAVs. Despite the Armenian claims about "x number of destroyed Azerbaijani tanks", there has not been a single video/photo evidence of destroyed Azerbaijani tanks. That doesn't makes sense, don't you think? They claim to have destroyed Azerbaijani tanks with Fagot missiles, and what is its maximum range? Why is there not even one evidence out of 30-40 "destroyed" tanks?

    Armenia lost 14 tanks and 4 BMP according to their claims. A very high number for such a short period of time, especially with the size of forces involved.


    Last edited by AttilaA on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:48 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AttilaA on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:36 pm

    This is one of the tanks that was destroyed.



    The tank was destroyed in the second line of Armenian defence. That is, the first line was already overrun.

    It was trying to "hide" after firing its gun.



    Last edited by AttilaA on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:47 pm

    AttilaA wrote:Regarding "material losses", Azerbaijan lost one helicopter, 1 tank (mine explosion), few UAVs. Despite the Armenian claims about "x number of destroyed Azerbaijani tanks", there has not been a single video/photo evidence of destroyed Azerbaijani tanks. That doesn't makes sense, don't you think? They claim to have destroyed Azerbaijani tanks with Fagot, and what is its maximum range? Why is there not even one evidence out of 30-40 "destroyed" tanks?

    Armenia lost 14 tanks and 4 BMP according to their claims. A very high number for such a short period of time, especially with the size of forces involved.

    "They claim to have destroyed Azerbaijani tanks with Fagot, and what is its maximum range?" not sure how this is relevant as there are many ATGMs with far storter ranges around like Eryx, Bumbar, Type 64 MAT, Type 87 Chu-MAT, Type 01, M47 Dragon... But maximum range is between 2000 and 2500m depending on variant.

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AttilaA on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:50 pm

    I'm pointing out the fact that it has not a particularly extensive range. If such a number of Azerbaijani tanks were supposedly destroyed, then there should be at least one evidence that Armenians can provide in terms of footage.

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  max steel on Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:07 am

    Militarov wrote:

    Check this one, Azeris shot down their own Orbiter drone and they are celebrating it, ended even on TV...

    Atleast they are honing their anti-air skills. cheers

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  marat on Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:14 pm

    http://vestnikkavkaza.net/news/Azerbaijani-Defense-Ministry-denies-information-about-humiliation-of-Armenian-soldiers’-bodies.html

    Azerbaijan denie fact that bodies of Armenian soliders were humiliated, even if we all saw that. Even AttillaA saw that but he is still ignoring question to give us his stance on that issue.
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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:05 pm

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:25 pm

    It's been two days any updates on the situation??
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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:20 pm


    Or shorter version: Armenian Military was sitting on it's ass and did not fire a single bullet in Azeri direction. You can't expect others to fight your war without being willing to fight yourself.

    Nagorny Karabakh Conflict: 3:1 in Azerbaijan's Favor

    Baku managed to drive a wedge between Armenia and Russia


    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nagorny-karabakh-conflict-31-azerbaijan/ri13890

    Originally appeared at Vzglyad – Russian online magazine. Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie

    The author is a well-known political analyst and expert on the Caucasus


    Another flare-up of the conflict in the Nagorny Karabakh is over. But this one differed radically from the previous ones. During both non-military and military confrontations, the initiative generally belonged to Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, and they managed to maintain the status quo: this time it’s Azerbaijan that scores.

    First of all, it’s obvious that the main goal in restarting the conflict wasn’t to start a war as such but to update it and attract international attention, showing that the Karabakh conflict wasn’t over. And given the international resonance the flare-up received, Baku scored impressively.

    Secondly, the power demonstrated by the Azeri army in this short conflict that was not intended to become a full-scale war, was a surprise to everyone, and the results differ drastically from what we’ve seen before.

    Recently during what was probably the most active post-war phase of the conflict, in summer 2014, the Azeri army faced the first defense line of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, but now its troops quickly broke through the two defense lines after taking seven strong points and settlements that Armenians had held for twenty years.

    We can’t say the Azeris dominated on the battlefield, losing many tanks, but in general the action was a surprise. The Karabakh had seemed an unassailable fortress, a perfect engineering feat, but we now can’t be sure about that anymore.

    Finally, Baku succeeded in driving a wedge between Armenia on the one hand, and Russia and the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) on the other. Remember that despite the popular myth that Armenia can defend itself in Nagorny Karabakh, the status quo doctrine for Armenia was always based on the neutralization of Azerbaijan with the help of Moscow and the CSTO freely arming Armenia, while refusing to deliver arms to it and exerting diplomatic and other pressure on Baku, transferring the Karabakh conflict to Armenia’s territory to force both Russia and the CSTO to get involved.

    Today the situation shows that none of that worked: the blockade of arms deliveries to Baku failed completely, neither Russia, nor anyone else opted for Armenia, at best pursuing a policy of equidistance.

    This resulted in semi-panic and semi-hysterics in the Armenian media, cursing President Putin and claiming Russia had betrayed Armenia before, and it could join the US.

    The one considerable drawback for Baku is that much of the international community believes it started the conflict. However, under the current circumstances, that is not very important and for a series of reasons doesn’t imply any urgent threat.

    The fact that Armenia is losing confidence in Moscow and CSTO’s ability to help it solve the Karabakh conflict, straining relations with its allies, benefits Azerbaijan, and this is a serious achievement.

    The fact that the international community sees it as the aggressor is not crucial, making it a 3:1.

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  par far on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Or shorter version: Armenian Military was sitting on it's ass and did not fire a single bullet in Azeri direction. You can't expect others to fight your war without being willing to fight yourself.

    Nagorny Karabakh Conflict: 3:1 in Azerbaijan's Favor

    Baku managed to drive a wedge between Armenia and Russia


    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nagorny-karabakh-conflict-31-azerbaijan/ri13890

    Originally appeared at Vzglyad – Russian online magazine. Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie

    The author is a well-known political analyst and expert on the Caucasus


    Another flare-up of the conflict in the Nagorny Karabakh is over.  But this one differed radically from the previous ones. During both non-military and military confrontations, the initiative generally belonged to Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, and they managed to maintain the status quo: this time it’s Azerbaijan that scores.

    First of all, it’s obvious that the main goal in restarting the conflict wasn’t to start a war as such but to update it and attract international attention, showing that the Karabakh conflict wasn’t over. And given the international resonance the flare-up received, Baku scored impressively.

    Secondly, the power demonstrated by the Azeri army in this short conflict that was not intended to become a full-scale war, was a surprise to everyone, and the results differ drastically from what we’ve seen before.

    Recently during what was probably the most active post-war phase of the conflict, in summer 2014, the Azeri army faced the first defense line of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, but now its troops quickly broke through the two defense lines after taking seven strong points and settlements that Armenians had held for twenty years.

    We can’t say the Azeris dominated on the battlefield, losing many tanks, but in general the action was a surprise. The Karabakh had seemed an unassailable fortress, a perfect engineering feat, but we now can’t be sure about that anymore.

    Finally, Baku succeeded in driving a wedge between Armenia on the one hand, and Russia and the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) on the other. Remember that despite the popular myth that Armenia can defend itself in Nagorny Karabakh, the status quo doctrine for Armenia was always based on the neutralization of Azerbaijan with the help of Moscow and the CSTO freely arming Armenia, while refusing to deliver arms to it and exerting diplomatic and other pressure on Baku, transferring the Karabakh conflict to Armenia’s territory to force both Russia and the CSTO to get involved.

    Today the situation shows that none of that worked: the blockade of arms deliveries to Baku failed completely, neither Russia, nor anyone else opted for Armenia, at best pursuing a policy of equidistance.

    This resulted in semi-panic and semi-hysterics in the Armenian media, cursing President Putin and claiming Russia had betrayed Armenia before, and it could join the US.


    The one considerable drawback for Baku is that much of the international community believes it started the conflict. However, under the current circumstances, that is not very important and for a series of reasons doesn’t imply any urgent threat.

    The fact that Armenia is losing confidence in Moscow and CSTO’s ability to help it solve the Karabakh conflict, straining relations with its allies, benefits Azerbaijan, and this is a serious achievement.

    The fact that the international community sees it as the aggressor is not crucial, making it a  3:1.


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/


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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:20 pm

    par far wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.................


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/



    Takes two to tango, like I said, Armenia needs to start shooting back for starters.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:42 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    par far wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.................


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/



    Takes two to tango, like I said, Armenia needs to start shooting back for starters.


    Armenians started shooting with CIA support. Among other things, that helped to dismantle the Soviet Union.

    Now they are even getting a heavily discounted natural gas from Russia.

    It is precisely the opposite of Poland, since now it gets kicked in the ass by both Russia and the Western "allies", while Armenia gets to get support from both.

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:47 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    par far wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.................


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/



    Takes two to tango, like I said, Armenia needs to start shooting back for starters.


    Armenians started shooting with CIA support. Among other things, that helped to dismantle the Soviet Union.

    Now they are even getting a heavily discounted natural gas from Russia.

    It is precisely the opposite of Poland, since now it gets kicked in the ass by both Russia and the Western "allies", while Armenia gets to get support from both.


    Then go get your gas somewhere else, ask fucking Murica' and their fracking companies which promised so much. they are your friends they will give you a tiny price and will massage your balls at the same time because you are so equal partners and friends.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:50 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    par far wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.................


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/



    Takes two to tango, like I said, Armenia needs to start shooting back for starters.


    Armenians started shooting with CIA support. Among other things, that helped to dismantle the Soviet Union.

    Now they are even getting a heavily discounted natural gas from Russia.

    It is precisely the opposite of Poland, since now it gets kicked in the ass by both Russia and the Western "allies", while Armenia gets to get support from both.


    Then go get your gas somewhere else, ask fucking Murica' and their fracking companies which promised so much. they are your friends they will give you a tiny price and will massage your balls at the same time because you are so equal partners and friends.


    In case you do not know it, in Poland vast majority of people are opposed the the fracking and we do NOT want their fracking companies on our soil.

    And they are YOUR friends, since you are hosting their military bases much longer than Poland.

    And it was YOU who bombed Yugoslavia back in 1999 (and earlier), while Poland did not bomb it.

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:57 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    In case you do not know it, in Poland vast majority of people are opposed the the fracking and we do NOT want their fracking companies on our soil.

    And they are YOUR friends, since you are hosting their military bases much longer than Poland.

    And it was YOU who bombed Yugoslavia back in 1999 (and earlier), while Poland did not bomb it.


    As a vassal state you should know the difference of being a friend/ally and being a bitch which poland is openly, while germany at least tries to have a pseudo image of being a big player, but still funny to be called a slut by the bukkake whore poland.

    Pot-Kettle-black, but my own version of that is more suitable for the entire political situation of the countries mentioned above.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    In case you do not know it, in Poland vast majority of people are opposed the the fracking and we do NOT want their fracking companies on our soil.

    And they are YOUR friends, since you are hosting their military bases much longer than Poland.

    And it was YOU who bombed Yugoslavia back in 1999 (and earlier), while Poland did not bomb it.


    As a vassal state you should know the difference of being a friend/ally and being a bitch which poland is openly, while germany at least tries to have a pseudo image of being a big player, but still funny to be called a slut by the bukkake whore poland.

    Pot-Kettle-black, but my own version of that is more suitable for the entire political situation of the countries mentioned above.

    Facts:

    YOU bombed Yugoslavia in 1999 (and earlier) while Poland did not.

    Why Poland pays much more for the Russian natural gas is beyond me.

    Variag shit Putin will never explain this one away.

    Guess where is Schroder? At that time described in the Yugoslav press as a Nazi. Now he is a friend of Putin!
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:14 am

    par far wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Or shorter version: Armenian Military was sitting on it's ass and did not fire a single bullet in Azeri direction. You can't expect others to fight your war without being willing to fight yourself.

    Nagorny Karabakh Conflict: 3:1 in Azerbaijan's Favor

    Baku managed to drive a wedge between Armenia and Russia


    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nagorny-karabakh-conflict-31-azerbaijan/ri13890

    Originally appeared at Vzglyad – Russian online magazine. Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie

    The author is a well-known political analyst and expert on the Caucasus


    Another flare-up of the conflict in the Nagorny Karabakh is over.  But this one differed radically from the previous ones. During both non-military and military confrontations, the initiative generally belonged to Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, and they managed to maintain the status quo: this time it’s Azerbaijan that scores.

    First of all, it’s obvious that the main goal in restarting the conflict wasn’t to start a war as such but to update it and attract international attention, showing that the Karabakh conflict wasn’t over. And given the international resonance the flare-up received, Baku scored impressively.

    Secondly, the power demonstrated by the Azeri army in this short conflict that was not intended to become a full-scale war, was a surprise to everyone, and the results differ drastically from what we’ve seen before.

    Recently during what was probably the most active post-war phase of the conflict, in summer 2014, the Azeri army faced the first defense line of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, but now its troops quickly broke through the two defense lines after taking seven strong points and settlements that Armenians had held for twenty years.

    We can’t say the Azeris dominated on the battlefield, losing many tanks, but in general the action was a surprise. The Karabakh had seemed an unassailable fortress, a perfect engineering feat, but we now can’t be sure about that anymore.

    Finally, Baku succeeded in driving a wedge between Armenia on the one hand, and Russia and the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) on the other. Remember that despite the popular myth that Armenia can defend itself in Nagorny Karabakh, the status quo doctrine for Armenia was always based on the neutralization of Azerbaijan with the help of Moscow and the CSTO freely arming Armenia, while refusing to deliver arms to it and exerting diplomatic and other pressure on Baku, transferring the Karabakh conflict to Armenia’s territory to force both Russia and the CSTO to get involved.

    Today the situation shows that none of that worked: the blockade of arms deliveries to Baku failed completely, neither Russia, nor anyone else opted for Armenia, at best pursuing a policy of equidistance.

    This resulted in semi-panic and semi-hysterics in the Armenian media, cursing President Putin and claiming Russia had betrayed Armenia before, and it could join the US.


    The one considerable drawback for Baku is that much of the international community believes it started the conflict. However, under the current circumstances, that is not very important and for a series of reasons doesn’t imply any urgent threat.

    The fact that Armenia is losing confidence in Moscow and CSTO’s ability to help it solve the Karabakh conflict, straining relations with its allies, benefits Azerbaijan, and this is a serious achievement.

    The fact that the international community sees it as the aggressor is not crucial, making it a  3:1.


    This is not good, Russia needs to do something, the US is doing everything to escalate this situation.

    https://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-studying-escalation-in-nagorno-karabakh/



    There is a general issue with the articles though.

    Karabakh isn't recognized by Russia nor nearly anyone else besides Armenia and a few others. Russia is not obliged to help it, but it still brokered a peace deal between the two countries for now, so it did help. Second, Armenia may have sent people but these are, I am not entirely 100% sure on this, Armenian military but Karabakh army. Thirdly, Armenia wasn't attacked directly thus CSTO does not take into affect. Unless Armenia was stricken directly, then guarantee Russia would have intervened.

    As for Armenia and the media campaign by US, I don't think it will work. As evident from the so called RI articles youtube video, there was less then 30 people present at that "demonstration". And to boot, the demonstration was in english.... Hmmm, I wonder why? Now The two Armenian's we have on this site seem to be very intelligent people and know quite a bit (The Armenian and Armenian), so I can assume that majority of the population is like that.

    Anyway, head of CSTO and Armenia's president had a metting: https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/sputnikarmenia.ru/karabah/20160415/2989642.html

    So I assume that they are probably drafting out ideas on CSTO's actions and what not. But Armenia knows they cannot side with US (at least I hope they do) cause it will affect directly Armenia in regards to Russia's counter actions with gas prices and what not, which will heavily affect Armenia's economy. Add to that, Turkey is Armenia's enemy and US ally as it is part of NATO. Something that Armenians know very well would drive a wedge from them. As well, Russia would then probably turn to Azerbaijan (as Russia has more to offer Azerbaijan than Turkey does) and I don't think Armenia would like that. But who knows!
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:51 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Or shorter version: Armenian Military was sitting on it's ass and did not fire a single bullet in Azeri direction. You can't expect others to fight your war without being willing to fight yourself.

    Nagorny Karabakh Conflict: 3:1 in Azerbaijan's Favor

    Baku managed to drive a wedge between Armenia and Russia


    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nagorny-karabakh-conflict-31-azerbaijan/ri13890

    Originally appeared at Vzglyad – Russian online magazine. Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie

    The author is a well-known political analyst and expert on the Caucasus


    Another flare-up of the conflict in the Nagorny Karabakh is over.  But this one differed radically from the previous ones. During both non-military and military confrontations, the initiative generally belonged to Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, and they managed to maintain the status quo: this time it’s Azerbaijan that scores.

    First of all, it’s obvious that the main goal in restarting the conflict wasn’t to start a war as such but to update it and attract international attention, showing that the Karabakh conflict wasn’t over. And given the international resonance the flare-up received, Baku scored impressively.

    Secondly, the power demonstrated by the Azeri army in this short conflict that was not intended to become a full-scale war, was a surprise to everyone, and the results differ drastically from what we’ve seen before.

    Recently during what was probably the most active post-war phase of the conflict, in summer 2014, the Azeri army faced the first defense line of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, but now its troops quickly broke through the two defense lines after taking seven strong points and settlements that Armenians had held for twenty years.

    We can’t say the Azeris dominated on the battlefield, losing many tanks, but in general the action was a surprise. The Karabakh had seemed an unassailable fortress, a perfect engineering feat, but we now can’t be sure about that anymore.

    Finally, Baku succeeded in driving a wedge between Armenia on the one hand, and Russia and the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) on the other. Remember that despite the popular myth that Armenia can defend itself in Nagorny Karabakh, the status quo doctrine for Armenia was always based on the neutralization of Azerbaijan with the help of Moscow and the CSTO freely arming Armenia, while refusing to deliver arms to it and exerting diplomatic and other pressure on Baku, transferring the Karabakh conflict to Armenia’s territory to force both Russia and the CSTO to get involved.

    Today the situation shows that none of that worked: the blockade of arms deliveries to Baku failed completely, neither Russia, nor anyone else opted for Armenia, at best pursuing a policy of equidistance.

    This resulted in semi-panic and semi-hysterics in the Armenian media, cursing President Putin and claiming Russia had betrayed Armenia before, and it could join the US.

    The one considerable drawback for Baku is that much of the international community believes it started the conflict. However, under the current circumstances, that is not very important and for a series of reasons doesn’t imply any urgent threat.

    The fact that Armenia is losing confidence in Moscow and CSTO’s ability to help it solve the Karabakh conflict, straining relations with its allies, benefits Azerbaijan, and this is a serious achievement.

    The fact that the international community sees it as the aggressor is not crucial, making it a  3:1.

    The article has a lot of things wrong.

    First and foremost the "tactical" victory Azerbaijan "won" (you don't win victories by advancing fast then hitting those brakes harder than a Pravosek @ Illovaisk) is very very hard to prove. Azeris haven't integrated at all the UAV/S in their military. It looks like the Strike and tactical overwatch drones were managed by an independent arm of the military (god forbid this is Ivory Coast/Georgian fiasco again) which knew its job rather well. On the other hand, the ground troops tasked with the direct assault, didn't look either informed about the assets (they shot their own drone(s)) or about the actual battlefield flow, since in at least 1 occasion low fying helicopter were picked up by a medium range AA system, that should have been a top priority for the Strike package, which again means that the UAV/S are used by an independent arm and did not actually support the troops organically.

    In simple talk, it looked like Harops were brought in, stroke, then troops moved in, there was no inherent combined tactics with the Harops, because (as we seen later) there's possibly was no direct contact with the Strike UAV's (another indication that possibly foreigners were manning them be that Turks or Israelis). Or simply there's no reliable IFF yet for those UAV's.

    Now as for the wedge...it's pretty simple. Armenia has ZERO other non CSTO sources within its ressources to buy armament without being politically tangled in a quid pro quo. There's also a very big issue with Armenia itself. They were basing the Karabagh defense on static lines with overwatch. Those lines were clearly an issue for Azerbaijan, so they started this "proof of concept" exercise. Which in my opinion failed miserably. BUT, those static lines also proved very vulnerable to drones as they were in the open. My opinion is that instead of manned static lines the Armenians should revert to defensive perimeters like they actually did in 1994. Minning whole areas and fire controlling them is going to be a priority. ATGM's are going to be a top priority as well. Camouflage and Manpads too. Lastly EW needs a shot in the arm. They managed to fry at least a couple of overwatch UAV's. This is something Russia needs to help Armenians with, no ifs or buts.


    If there's one thing with the tactics employed by Azerbijan, is that they aren't all that. Yes Harops were a nasty suprise for Armenia, but they're slow and visible. They can be shot down with whatever manpads you need. Even if used massively, they would be hard pressed to find a target or opportunity if camouflage is applied and AA teams are on high alert.


    AttilaA

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  AttilaA on Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 pm

    How can you possibly be informed about anything related to tactics employed by Azerbaijan in detail? Everything was limited in scope compared to an actual war. Someone can try to paint a different picture (the Armenian side), but that's what it was. A small fraction of military forces involved in a limited area.

    Widespread use of UAVs for joint coordination of troops are not a new thing for Azerbaijani military, such tactics have been employed in exercises all the time. Your examples doesn't even make sense, so Azerbaijani troops shot down one of their mini-UAVs? So what?

    As a side note, even artillery batteries (a single battery) make use of mini-UAVs.



    Last edited by AttilaA on Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Militarov on Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:59 pm

    AttilaA wrote:How did you make up all that? How can you possibly be informed about anything related to tactics employed by Azerbaijan in detail? It was a small-scale operation in a short period of time. Someone can try to paint a different picture, but that's what it was. A small fraction of military forces involved in a limited area.

    Widespread use of UAVs for joint coordination of troops are not a new thing for Azerbaijani military, such tactics have been employed in exercises all the time. Your examples doesn't even make sense.

    For example, even artillery batteries (and I'm talking about a single battery) make use of mini-UAVs at tactical level.


    Wait, 3 UAVs and 2 command posts per artillery battery (which is composition of one tactical UAV system btw) which consists of 4-8 artillery pieces? I dont think so, not even US or Israel have that density of tactical UAVs in their armed forces.

    Tactical UAVs are mostly attached to artillery regiment, but that would depend on armed forces, some use different unit size and names troop, squad, divizion, brigade... Fact that on pic you have UAV and behind it 1 artillery battery does not mean anything, they are probably attached to 4 or 6 batteries but stationed near one.

    Artillery anyways in conflicts like this would get far more useful data from artillery radar than UAVs that were getting shot like toys from flips bag.


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    Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

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