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99 posters

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Guest Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:27 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:When the oil price was high, Azerbaijan had the money to buy weapons from wherever it wanted.

    If Russia refused to sell to Azerbaijan, our forces would have faced Merkava instead of T-90 etc etc.

    Azerbaijan would have still gotten the weapons it wanted.
    Armenia would have gained nothing
    Russia would have lost income ($$$)
    Russia would have also lost some influence over Azerbaijan (and that could be a loss to Armenia too)
    Israel would have been the winner ($$$)

    Of course, as an ally, Russia should not sell to Azerbaijan on ethical grounds. But this is Realpolitiks, ethics has not place in it or on the battlefield.

    Actually there are alot higher chances that Azerbaijan would obtain Oplots from Ukraine or refubrished T72s, maybeee overhauled second hand M60s via Turkey or something Chinese rather than Merkava, as Merkava is on banned export items list of Israel. Only Merkavas they tried to sell were Mk1s that they pushed out of servece, and those are by now quite obsolete. But we are aware of your poin, instead of T90s there could have been Type96s or T84 Oplot, there is always someone willing to sell.
    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:34 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:New UAV shot down today

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 VkaHFK

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 KvGl8N

    Shot down or it hit its target? This is kamikaze drone IAI Harop.
    Armenian
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    Post  Armenian Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:00 pm

    medo wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:New UAV shot down today

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 VkaHFK

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 KvGl8N

    Shot down or it hit its target? This is kamikaze drone IAI Harop.

    I don't think it could stay in this condition after hitting a target.
    Godric
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    Post  Godric Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:06 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:When the oil price was high, Azerbaijan had the money to buy weapons from wherever it wanted.

    If Russia refused to sell to Azerbaijan, our forces would have faced Merkava instead of T-90 etc etc.

    Azerbaijan would have still gotten the weapons it wanted.
    Armenia would have gained nothing
    Russia would have lost income ($$$)
    Russia would have also lost some influence over Azerbaijan (and that could be a loss to Armenia too)
    Israel would have been the winner ($$$)

    Of course, as an ally, Russia should not sell to Azerbaijan on ethical grounds. But this is Realpolitiks, ethics has not place in it or on the battlefield.

    Actually there are alot higher chances that Azerbaijan would obtain Oplots from Ukraine or refubrished T72s, maybeee overhauled second hand M60s via Turkey or something Chinese rather than Merkava, as Merkava is on banned export items list of Israel. Only Merkavas they tried to sell were Mk1s that they pushed out of servece, and those are by now quite obsolete. But we are aware of your poin, instead of T90s there could have been Type96s or T84 Oplot, there is always someone willing to sell.

    the Israelis did try to sell Merkava 4s to Columbia in 2012 ... so the Israelis are looking for sales
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    Post  Guest Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:16 pm

    Godric wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:When the oil price was high, Azerbaijan had the money to buy weapons from wherever it wanted.

    If Russia refused to sell to Azerbaijan, our forces would have faced Merkava instead of T-90 etc etc.

    Azerbaijan would have still gotten the weapons it wanted.
    Armenia would have gained nothing
    Russia would have lost income ($$$)
    Russia would have also lost some influence over Azerbaijan (and that could be a loss to Armenia too)
    Israel would have been the winner ($$$)

    Of course, as an ally, Russia should not sell to Azerbaijan on ethical grounds. But this is Realpolitiks, ethics has not place in it or on the battlefield.

    Actually there are alot higher chances that Azerbaijan would obtain Oplots from Ukraine or refubrished T72s, maybeee overhauled second hand M60s via Turkey or something Chinese rather than Merkava, as Merkava is on banned export items list of Israel. Only Merkavas they tried to sell were Mk1s that they pushed out of servece, and those are by now quite obsolete. But we are aware of your poin, instead of T90s there could have been Type96s or T84 Oplot, there is always someone willing to sell.

    the Israelis did try to sell Merkava 4s to Columbia in 2012 ... so the Israelis are looking for sales

    It was somewhat of a "private offer" to spice UAV contract that was signed back then. Sales of Merkava despite 30 years ban on export is no longer in place would have go be allowed by gov, which most likely wouldnt happen in either cases Colombia or Azerbaijan. Israel did try obtaining customers since 2011. but they aimed at different markets. They had dreams of offering it to Turkey and India, however none happened. Mk4 wont see many exports, if any. Israel was always quite secretive about their military industry product, at least sensitive ones.

    They did tho offer NAMER to USA, which can use Mk2, MK3 and MK4 Merkava hulls.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:33 pm

    Armenian wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Armenian wrote:I don't really think our relations can stay as strong as before if Russia continues to sell weapons to Azerbaijan. Armenia itself always remained a trusted ally for Russia. We even stayed togheter about Ukraine crisis and voted in favor of Russia at UN Crimean Resolution .

    Selling adversary weapons to Armenia's biggest enemy is a clear betrayal in my opinion. I can't find another word to describe my feelings.

    What should Russia have done in your opinion?

    Whole thing is back to square one and shooting stopped thanks to Russia.

    Was Russia supposed to fight war for Nagorno Karabah? Keep in mind that even Armenia did not send it's military into the fight but Russia somehow should have?

    Nobody is expecting Russia fighting for us. We can defend our lands by ourselves.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Haha Armenian griefs are somewhat funny. The biggest single culprit of the recent showdown and emboldening of the Azeri forces has been the Surveillance and drone strike suite that is 100% Israeli. Yet there is no one complaint about it. Nope it`s Rasha bad. Name me one Russian system that has been used to actually cause mayhem on Armenian lines?

    The fact is that even the damn SuperMil was an Israeli/SAF upgrade zith BLR/Ukrainian Atgm`s. Wow...guess Rasha is the new Jew, does everything & rules everybody.

    Here is the thing,
    Israel is not our ally. Russia is.

    There is a huge difference you know?

    I don't want to turn this into a discussion. I am not talking on behelf of my country. I am writing my own views and observations and i think i made my point clear.

    Yet Israel is giving a small edge to Azerbaijan, that and their oil money....what do you want Russia to do about it? Holocaust 2.0? The fact is that Armenia will have to bite itself and start some defense fund...
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:13 am

    to be honest i thought the Armenians did pretty good considering Azerbaijan has 3 times the military budget of Armenia (Armenia $448 million and Azerbaijan $1.46 billion.) and the Azerbaijani forces have more modern equipment, just goes to show its not all about having all the fancy gear, but rather to do with training, another good example is Saudi's vs Houthi's
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:01 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:to be honest i thought the Armenians did pretty good considering Azerbaijan has 3 times the military budget of Armenia (Armenia $448 million and Azerbaijan $1.46 billion.) and the Azerbaijani forces have more modern equipment, just goes to show its not all about having all the fancy gear, but rather to do with training, another good example is Saudi's vs Houthi's

    Hahahahahaha...

    You are exaggerating too much.
    The Azeris are no way as rich as the Saudis.
    We are no way as poor as the Houthis.

    In fact with the drop in oil prices. The Azerbaijan currency has been devalued heavily. The Armenian currency remained stable.
    Living standards are currently similar in both countries.
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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 Empty reply

    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:20 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:to be honest i thought the Armenians did pretty good considering Azerbaijan has 3 times the military budget of Armenia (Armenia $448 million and Azerbaijan $1.46 billion.) and the Azerbaijani forces have more modern equipment, just goes to show its not all about having all the fancy gear, but rather to do with training, another good example is Saudi's vs Houthi's

    Hahahahahaha...

    You are exaggerating too much.
    The Azeris are no way as rich as the Saudis.
    We are no way as poor as the Houthis.

    In fact with the drop in oil prices. The Azerbaijan currency has been devalued heavily. The Armenian currency remained stable.
    Living standards are currently similar in both countries.

    i don't think you got what i meant, i wasn't comparing finances i was comparing the fancy equipment i.e the Saudi's have fancy equipment and the Houthi's have old equipment, hence the statement i made "just goes to show its not all about having all the fancy gear, but rather to do with training" prior to using the example, the defence spending of Azerbaijan will no doubt be effected due to current oil prices but prior to that they did have 3 times the budget compared to Armenia, and yet the Armenians still seem to have perform pretty well despite the difference in budgets this is what i was getting at.
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:30 pm

    ...


    Last edited by AttilaA on Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Armenian
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    Post  Armenian Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:37 pm

    So apparently Azerbaijan has 87 KIA till now.

    https://www.meydan.tv/az/site/opinion/13405/

    There are still many missing soldiers in both sides. Numbers of the killed soldiers will continue to grow.
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:45 pm

    I already replied on another forum about this "source".

    "I'm aware of Habib (author of "meydan), but who said that he is a trustworthy source on this at all? All of his activities are anti-government based, which is not a problem but it's of the extreme type, and he will try anything in his power for propaganda. Habib Abdullayev is residing in Germany, far away from Azerbaijan. How could he have access to such information? How could he/they reach those names? And why he doesn't post photos of them? How are they confirmed? In what way?"



    Last edited by AttilaA on Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:47 pm

    AttilaA wrote:I already replied on another forum about this "source".

    "I'm aware of Habib (author of "meydan), but who said that he is a trustworthy source on this at all? All of his activities are anti-government based, which is not a problem but it's of the extreme type, and he will try anything in his power for propaganda. Habib Abdullayev is residing in Germany, far away from Azerbaijan. How could he have access to such information? How could he/they reach those names? And why he doesn't post photos of them? How are they confirmed? In what way?"



    .... fer real? There are people who will speak always. Even the Russians couldn't keep a lid on those tourists that didn't came home.
    lol and once again you're so Super Patriot that it eclipses all the Suria Stronggg BS.
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:48 pm

    Here is a good article.

    http://altyn73.livejournal.com/883299.html


    Last edited by AttilaA on Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:49 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:.... fer real? There are people who will speak always. Even the Russians couldn't keep a lid on those tourists that didn't came home.
    lol and once again you're so Super Patriot that it eclipses all the Suria Stronggg BS.

    The only problem is that these people are speaking behind their monitors in...Germany.
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    Post  Armenian Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:55 pm

    AttilaA wrote:I already replied on another forum about this "source".

    "I'm aware of Habib (author of "meydan), but who said that he is a trustworthy source on this at all? All of his activities are anti-government based, which is not a problem but it's of the extreme type, and he will try anything in his power for propaganda. Habib Abdullayev is residing in Germany, far away from Azerbaijan. How could he have access to such information? How could he/they reach those names? And why he doesn't post photos of them? How are they confirmed? In what way?"



    He has the names of the dead soldiers. Pictures from their funerals etc.

    I can understand if you don't believe Armenian sources but please don't try to do the same **it with your Azerbaijani sources. It's getting ridiculous.
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:58 pm

    "Azerbaijani source" in Germany?

    The photos of funerals are from those already confirmed officially, I know you will try anything at propaganda, but don't do it with such stupidity.
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    Post  Armenian Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:02 pm

    AttilaA wrote:"Azerbaijani source" in Germany?

    The photos of funerals are from those already confirmed officially, I know you will try anything at propaganda, but don't do it with such stupidity.

    Oh god. You better to keep continue to live in your parallel universe.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Morpheus... you are basically flame baiting our Azeri member... I am looking hard at the posting on this thread and the only bad behaviour I have seen so far is a little baiting by AtilaA...


    Garry,

    I don't have time to elaborate; so I'll just outline the situation.

    All I am doing is I am explaining the situation with regards to this conflict and the underlying reasons behind some of the forum users posts. I don't think my posts can be considered as flame-baiting in any shape or form; what you said is just your personal opinion, of course.

    Even Attila's posts did not include any noticeable baiting; at least I didn't notice any baiting in his posts. The issues with his posts were as I explained in some of my previous posts.

    Your behavior has been quite unacceptable; however, I don't yet know if you are trolling or not. I will be watching your behavior very carefully ...
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:26 pm

    See how "meydan tv" conducts their "activity".

    http://m.haqqin.az/news/67689

    First of all their "information" is based on random people writing on facebook, which could be anyone. Come on, even you cannot claim that this is a serious way of conducting things.

    Secondly, they list wounded soldiers as "killed". For example they have listed Aydin Natig oglu Hasanov, who was only lightly injured and is now discharged from the hospital as "killed".
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:29 pm

    AttilaA wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:.... fer real? There are people who will speak always. Even the Russians couldn't keep a lid on those tourists that didn't came home.
    lol and once again you're so Super Patriot that it eclipses all the Suria Stronggg BS.

    The only problem is that these people are speaking behind their monitors in...Germany.

    Same deal with those who could contact families in Russia from Germoney and beyond. At leat the russian mod tried to whamfist them with social network wagging. this whole he in Germany he doesn't know squat is tiresome, there are names, pretty easy to dig them out and say these guys are alive. How ever given how the Azeri mod is using its people, Im inclined to thing that theres some truth in this blog.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:22 pm

    Can someone give a summary, where we stand right now?
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    Post  AttilaA Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:56 pm

    I posted this link above.

    AttilaA wrote:Here is a good article.

    http://altyn73.livejournal.com/883299.html
    avatar
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    Post  Guest Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:21 pm

    More shots of Aze equipment:

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 CfmwcOsVIAEj74i

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 CfmwcOyVAAAHUoC

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 CfmwcPRUkAAMpGf

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 17 CfmwcPeUUAcERZh
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    Post  VladimirSahin Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:26 pm

    Poor lads, I'm pretty sure this border tension will continue for years to come.

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