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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:44 pm

    Ukranians lost 125 TOMP - TOMA in the batle of Shahtarsk area during the last 2 days...



    also an othe AN 26 was downed above Khartsyzsky area and 10 parashut were seen ..
    http://vk.com/video79889569_169444865

    http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/item/%CE%B4%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%BF-%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%81%CF%83%CE%BA-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CF%81%CF%89%CF%83%CF%8C%CF%86%CF%89%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BD-%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%86%CE%AE-125-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BC%CF%80-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%BC%CE%AC%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD




    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:34 pm


    calripson
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    Parachutes

    Post  calripson on Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:38 pm

    Those are flares not human parachutes.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Strizh on Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:54 pm

    Hey what happened to the Tochka missiles it doesn't look like that it ever reached the target?

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:26 pm



     lol1 lol! 

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:30 pm

    mp wrote: Unconfirmed reports that UA waving white flags at Shakhtersk and about 450 have surrendered. Unconfirmed yet.....

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:54 pm

    and along an American major whose name I know.

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:08 pm

    Strizh wrote:Hey what happened to the Tochka missiles it doesn't look like that it ever reached the target?


    ?!?
    "29.07.2014 in afternoon Ukraine time 4 SS-21 Tochka tactical ballistic missiles were fired by Ukraine Armed Forces. At least two were clearly aimed at Saur Moglia with the idea of the Ukes trapped in The Cauldron having a sudden escape route opened for them. Moments before launch Russian Federation units surged toward the border at The Cauldron area and to the north of The Cauldron.
    None of the 4 Tochka missiles reached their targets. I repeat, none of the 4 Tochka missiles reached their targets and none impacted with the ground anywhere that can be found in anything close to one piece. As you know this missile can carry a tactical nuke, chem/bio, cluster munition or HE in the weight of just under 500 kilos.
    When the 4 missiles failed to reach their targets the Armed Forces of RF immediately halted their surge and held position. They are in the same positions 30.07.2014.
    There has been a noticeable slow down of fighting activity since the launches and Strelkov has pointedly said again that Novorossiya is open to negotiations.
    The 4 Tochka missiles were shot down over Novorossiya territory occupied by Ukraine Armed Forces before the missiles reached their programmed height. They were shot down from inside RF according to normally reliable sources. No visual evidence has been provided of RF shooting down the Tochka systems nor of the system used to shoot down the Tochka missiles."

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Strizh on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:13 pm

    I've read this report but mhm.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:15 pm

    lol1 lol1 lol1...They're starting to run out of anti-Russian cliches, so much so that it's to the point of which they re-hash old anti-Russian cliches that are more than 100 years old lol... lol1 lol1 lol1 





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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:47 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    Strizh wrote:Hey what happened to the Tochka missiles it doesn't look like that it ever reached the target?


    ?!?
    "29.07.2014 in afternoon Ukraine time 4 SS-21 Tochka tactical ballistic missiles were fired by Ukraine Armed Forces. At least two were clearly aimed at Saur Moglia with the idea of the Ukes trapped in The Cauldron having a sudden escape route opened for them. Moments before launch Russian Federation units surged toward the border at The Cauldron area and to the north of The Cauldron.
    None of the 4 Tochka missiles reached their targets. I repeat, none of the 4 Tochka missiles reached their targets and none impacted with the ground anywhere that can be found in anything close to one piece. As you know this missile can carry a tactical nuke, chem/bio, cluster munition or HE in the weight of just under 500 kilos.
    When the 4 missiles failed to reach their targets the Armed Forces of RF immediately halted their surge and held position. They are in the same positions 30.07.2014.
    There has been a noticeable slow down of fighting activity since the launches and Strelkov has pointedly said again that Novorossiya is open to negotiations.
    The 4 Tochka missiles were shot down over Novorossiya territory occupied by Ukraine Armed Forces before the missiles reached their programmed height. They were shot down from inside RF according to normally reliable sources. No visual evidence has been provided of RF shooting down the Tochka systems nor of the system used to shoot down the Tochka missiles."  


    Russia SHould have at the very least a couple of S-400s defenses covering the area of Donetsk and Lugansk.  Ballistic missiles major disadvantage over any other weapon (like artillery that is small or cruise missiles that covers unders radars horizon) is the easy to detect them by Radars for being Big Missiles ,and big heat emission.  As an example ,Russia federation caught by Surprise US and ISrael when they claimed that detected 2 ballistic Missiles launched at the coast of israel when they were about to attack Syria with cruise missiles over the chemical false flag incident. Russia detected with precision the the trajectory of the missiles and the time ,at the same moment they were used and the detection came from Radars stationed in Southern Russia ,that is about 3,000km away.  All said.. for Russia it will be automatic and simple the detection of any ballistic missile launched from Ukraine towards Russian borders to bomb Rebels positions. and Russian armed forces have to be ready to intercept them.. as soon they launched for the simple reason that they could be armed with Nukes or chemical weapons and they are not very precise weapons ,at least the first version of them.. can miss target by 200 meters ,if you mix that with the dozens of attacks already in Russian borders. That civilians have already been killed inside Russian territory.. Then Russia is on its legitimate Rights to intercept them.. because they pose a major danger to Russian territory .

    Because the Rebels are fighting very close Russian borders ,It will be totally foolish for Russia to wait the ballisctic missiles impact on the ground to know if they aimed correctly to were they wanted or if totally missed ,and end hitting Russian territory . Another danger in not intercepting them for Russia.. is teaching NATO that their defenses are weak and could encourage them to try more . 

    What is very strange in all this... is that even CNN media is reporting about the ballistic launch of kiev . The Message for me is clear that the US gov do not see on their interest that Kiev use ballistic missiles in the war at least not now with Poroshenko in power.. perhaps is because they can cause major civilians casualties and hit a refugee center or kill International inspectors in Donetsk ,that have the goal to inspect the plane. Something like that will be a total disaster in public relations for kiev.. that International inspectors die in a ballistic attack.

    Another interesting thing.. is.. if Russia intercept them.. Will Kiev complain about Russia intercepting them..
    thus admitting they are using ballistic missiles in the process? Question   So if for example civilians die in another attack ,they cannot claim they are not using ballistic missiles because previously they told they are using them and Russia intercepting them..

    Another thing is that Russian army if they had direct communication with Strelkov and rebels on the ground supplying logistic. They can also warn the Rebels when a ballistic missile have been launched and give a warning them with at least 30 seconds before a missile impact.. so that they can seek protection ..as they should already have by moving into a trench right on time before the missile impact.  


    Another thing that im very very curious is about and deserve discussion is  ,what kind of Tochka missiles kiev have? Scarab A ,B or C? And how can they get acceptable precision with them.. because on wiki is said their guidance is  (Inertial + glonass) and Kiev access to GLONASS (Russian satellite data) can be very easily blocked by Russia to kiev with Jammers sending the same signal on the ground but with incorrect information. My point is ,that Unless they managed to modify their Tochka missiles to use American GPS data ,then they will have major precision issues with them. but IF the white house helps kiev with GPS information to use their Tochka.. then can be held accounted for any bad use of the missiles were many civilians end killed or worse international inspectors.

    The Ukraine army according to wiki have (90) Toscka missiles ,thats a massive number for them ,for comparison same source say Russia have 220. So kiev have near half of what Russia have.wondering how they got them or if they can mass produce or if they are reverse engineering them.  If so they can become a very dangerous weapon.. that not necessarily can make a major difference in the battle field..specially if they depend on Russian satellite information  ,that Russia block to them.... but still can cause a lot of damage to cities and cause major casualties on civilians population.

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:30 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:51 pm

    *ALERT*: NATO and Ukraine are set to hold joint drills in Ukraine Sept. 1st, this is around the time Poroshenko said that the operation in the East "will be finished" around this time, what does this mean? Are NATO leaders this stupid? Time for Russia for once to put pressure back on Washington, time to threaten to pull out of the INF, START, and MTCR treaty and set up a No Fly Zone if those drills go on!

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:39 pm

    Relax my friend everything is under control  I love you 

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:32 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    So that makes it glass clear blah blah blah ....

    Really man .... ?  Rolling Eyes

    Let's return to some grown up behaviour shall we.... Can anybody confirm that Ukr military is securing Donetsk right now ?

    Vann7
    I know you have valid points but you people don't understand or don't want to or are highly delusioned. I'll reply later in detail when I have more time. I'm busy right now.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:07 pm

    Some speculation that the 4 x Tochka missiles were shot down by Pantsir's from Russian territory

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Mike E on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:36 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Some speculation that the 4 x Tochka missiles were shot down by Pantsir's from Russian territory

    Interesting... I can't find any info on that. Can I have your sources (not that I doubt you)?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:37 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Some speculation that the 4 x Tochka missiles were shot down by Pantsir's from Russian territory

    I don't think pantsirs can defeat Tochka ballistic missiles.. it will be like a mosquito trying to stop a bullet . The warhead are too small to destroy such strong ,big and fast missile. The range of Pantsir is just 20km too its missiles.
    and the gatlin gun range is too short ~4km to counter a hypersonic missile. Probably if Russia intercepted them was with 9M96E 40km short range S-400s missiles. or advanced Buks.. lol

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:42 am

    Mike E wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Some speculation that the 4 x Tochka missiles were shot down by Pantsir's from Russian territory

    Interesting... I can't find any info on that. Can I have your sources (not that I doubt you)?

    No official confirmation (and I doubt there will be any even if true). The militia reported the missiles falling down in pieces near Saur Mogila heights (the reported target of the missiles)....so it's assumed they were shot down from Russian territory since they don't have that capability

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:53 am

    Vann7 wrote:The range of Pantsir is just 20km too its missiles.

    I am not saying that Pantsir' was involved, but the 20 km maximum range is only for the export variants.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:30 am

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay. I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile). But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia. Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe. I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:18 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.


    ...Meanwhile Obama, Cameron, and Hollande openly admit and discuss about arms trafficking...err I mean sending lethal aid to Syria, and no one says jack shit and the limp-wrist fraud Bum-Hole Moon at the United Nations is totally incapable of undermining arms trafficking even though it's his f*cking job to do so! Before the despicable sanctimonious hypocrites at the White House lecture Russia, they need address their open discussions about arms trafficking in to Syria, and Obama and his cronies and goons need to address the Fast-and-Furious/Gun-Walking Scandal that's tied to grizzly murders in Mexico!


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:53 am

    Syria is a lost war.. don't go there. Without public support the cannibals jihadist they arm will stand no chance
    To hold any place for long in Syria. That was the reason they failed. The alqaeda cannibals had a serious problem
    of public relations and not even Assad political opposition wanted them.. Only the bandits and criminals and
    religious fanatics welcomed them.


    About the mexico Fast and Furious Scandal.. do not listen that report. is promoting the idea of a "mistake ". If you look that historically..when US end helping criminal and terrorist.. by coincidence they have a clever report that explain how it was a "mistake".  Just like 9/11 that by "mistake" the jihadist they helped ended attacking New York city.. Just like the American weapons Alnusra terrorist got in Syria ..that obama give the weapons to so called "moderates" and later you see Alnusra using them. Like Isis that ended by guess another mistake.. with many american weapons and armored vehicles and american tanks..
    The white house is now saying they lost by "mistake" 700,000 shipment of light weapons and assault rifles in afganistan.. Mistake is not.. US is a rogue state ,and its the main weapon dealer of Alqaeda and any international terrorist group. The most inhuman part of any society in any country.. are their clients.. their private armies.
    Simply those terrorist ,Drugs mafia and nazis.. are part of their plan to control the world. They use criminal and radical groups ,as they did in Ukraine to take control of governments not loyal to their interest.

    The only reason US get away with their international terrorism ,and destruction of the world ,is because you have European Nations who applaud them.  Without Europe support, US will stand not a chance to continue with their support to international crime and destruction of humanity.

    And that video of Fast and Furious is promoting the idea ,that the US government ,who have been very successful for many decades in controlling half of the world is run by fools .. But not they are not fools .. they do know what they do. Whenever they want to commit a major crime.. lets say give weapons to a terrorist organization , or finance them.. they are very clever and creative.. to do it in a way ,that later they can claim that , "that wasn't their intentions.. and it was a mistake". Rolling Eyes What the report do not mentioned is that the US military supplied with Anti tank weapons and other US military only use weapons to the Mexicans Drug Cartels too. So it was not only light weapons.. and there is absolutely no way to justify how can the US military give a rocket grenade ,mines and manpads  to a criminal mexican organization.. so that later they can trace by Gps their location.  Rolling Eyes



    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:03 am; edited 4 times in total

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    The Routed Nazi Checkpoint Near Torez

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:33 am

    The routed Nazi checkpoint near Torez (Source: Colonel Cassad):


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:16 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

    Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

    Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.


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