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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

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    Werewolf
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:56 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

    Remember the 2008 war and the dead black guys whom had US passports? And whom were seen in anotger video dancing with Georgian troops.

    More likely mercenaries, but still.



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-accuses-us-mercenaries-inciting-civil-war-ukraine

    medo
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  medo on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:07 pm

    http://slavyanskaya-kultura.ru/news/voenoe-delo/chem-i-kak-voyuet-na-donbase-ukrainskaja-armija.html

    This is very long and interesting article of Ukrainian military fighting in Donbass. Practically whole Ukrainian ground forces are there. Ukrainian army have 18 brigades, which are 2 tank brigades, 4 airborne brigades, 8 mechanized brigades, 3 artillery brigades and 1 missile brigade. I assume that missile brigade is air defense brigade. in active operations in Donbass are all 4 airborne brigades, 7 from 8 mechanized brigades, 1 tank brigade and 1 in reserve and at least 1 artillery brigade. There are also both special forces regiments, many territorial battalions and natsguard battalions and private battalions. Practically Ukrainian army doesn't have reserves to put in Dombass left. They practically have all working armored vehicles there and there is a big question, how many of left soviet equipment in depots they could repair and send to combat and how many of them were cannibalized for spare parts for export and for Ukrainian army.

    If Novorussia want to survive, they have to defeat Ukrainian units there and their defeat will be practically break of whole Ukrainian army and considering economical situation in Ukraine, they will not be able to repair army and properly defend themselves for a long time.

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:16 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

    Remember the 2008 war and the dead black guys whom had US passports? And whom were seen in anotger video dancing with Georgian troops.

    More likely mercenaries, but still.



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-accuses-us-mercenaries-inciting-civil-war-ukraine


    Your wasting your time with Blind People. if they don't want to see.. they will not do it. No matter what
    evidence you show them.. They live in a Matrix , in another planet, where US is the savior of the world , and US have nothing to do with Ukraine civil war..and that Ukraine is just protecting civilians and Rebels the ones killing them. and that how dare Russia interfere with the sovereingnity of another nation with their ethnic cleansing and how they dare to protect their nation security their historical naval base and people asking Russia for help. Rolling Eyes  etc,


    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:29 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

    Remember the 2008 war and the dead black guys whom had US passports? And whom were seen in anotger video dancing with Georgian troops.

    More likely mercenaries, but still.

    That black guy US passport thing was obvious laughable BS in 2008, and no less today.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:30 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

    Remember the 2008 war and the dead black guys whom had US passports? And whom were seen in anotger video dancing with Georgian troops.

    More likely mercenaries, but still.



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-accuses-us-mercenaries-inciting-civil-war-ukraine

    Are you people that dumb? Honestly?

    US troops and Georgian troops met and trained yes.
    There is ZERO proof or any tangible evidence they had any part in the 2008 war. Georgian war loses were extensively photograped and documented.

    I especially love the "or african" part. LMAO

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

    Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

    Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.


    The problem I see is that there is still a lack of actual evidence. I do believe Russia is turning a blind eye on people crossing into Ukraine to fight but as said, it is a belief. Like believing in God or not.


    No. You are just in denial and chose not to see the evidence. The Kamaz truck serials and registries were from RUSSIAN ARMY UNITS. Models that were NEVER BOUGHT by the Ukraine.

    It was ok to doubt it when they first showed random trucks and said "Russian special forces!"....but at this point denying it is asinine. In Russia they had funerals for ex-army guys that died in Donbass. There are Chechens in the fighting. They have trucks from Russia filled with various light weaponry. They are in posession of armored vehicles that just so happen to match exactly (in either tactical codes, ERA, or other IDable marks) vehicles seen traveling in Russia.

    All of this has been documented well online, and I am sure you have seen it...you just chose to say ITS NOT PROOF! or ITS NOT CLEAR!.

    I would rather all of this crap not be pointing at Russia myself, but at some point, you have to face reality.

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:47 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

    Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

    Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

    Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.


    The problem I see is that there is still a lack of actual evidence. I do believe Russia is turning a blind eye on people crossing into Ukraine to fight but as said, it is a belief. Like believing in God or not.


    No. You are just in denial and chose not to see the evidence. The Kamaz truck serials and registries were from RUSSIAN ARMY UNITS. Models that were NEVER BOUGHT by the Ukraine.

    So let me get this straight: you think that post-soviet kamaz trucks are proof of russian involvement?

    In that case I got news for you, those trucks are commercially available. You can buy one even yourself without any fear of being accused of terrorism in whatever place you live  Wink 
    http://www.avtorinok.ru/trucks/gruzoviki/car-678635/


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:54 pm; edited 2 times in total

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:50 pm

    Trucks that were stored in Russian military depots. When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:52 pm

    TR1 wrote:Trucks that were stored in Russian military depots. When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

    Any documentation for that?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:53 pm

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7240790&viewfull=1#post7240790

    One of the things I am referring to. There are quite a few examples however...

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7240790&viewfull=1#post7240790

    One of the things I am referring to. There are quite a few examples however...

    And your link proves what exactly?
    I just posted a link of military kamaz-5350 for commercial sale, in case you haven't noticed.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:01 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7240790&viewfull=1#post7240790

    One of the things I am referring to. There are quite a few examples however...

    Wow you truelly convinced me the Russian support for the evil rebels is equal to the support of US/NATO to terrorists in Syria who supplied Sarin gas to terrorists and those Kamaz trucks who are no proof whatsoever without serial numbers but model types... but yes DAMN RUSSIA giving trucks!!!!!

    You my friend are facepalmingly unintelligent when it comes down to anti russian argumentation, like the rest of mp net folks.

    I would like to see proof of actual weapons not some trucks that are no threat and under no international law an illegal thing, but hold on straws you can catch with your hands....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:02 pm

    Read the thread. Entire convoys of armed men on ex-Russian mil trucks...yep, Russia is pretty terrible at controling its own borders Very Happy.

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:06 pm

    TR1 wrote:Read the thread. Entire convoys of armed men on ex-Russian mil trucks...yep, Russia is pretty terrible at controling its own borders Very Happy.

    And source is unian.net? Wink

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:08 pm

    Why to feed the troll you guys? Is getting boring every second post is a hymn in human stupidity. Cut it please.

    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:09 pm

    TR1 wrote:Read the thread. Entire convoys of armed men on ex-Russian mil trucks...yep, Russia is pretty terrible at controling its own borders Very Happy.

    Seeing as how both sides have used same equipment, hard to say. Spoofing us easy.

    But that said, I think it has more to do with ignoring what is going through, if the evidence are correct.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:09 pm

    TR1 wrote:Read the thread. Entire convoys of armed men on ex-Russian mil trucks...yep, Russia is pretty terrible at controling its own borders Very Happy.

    Still no evidences there for anything not for trucks which would not violate any law regardless of what instance of law, regional/national or international, no evidence of supplying weapons and just knowing it does not really matter, since it is the west that speaks all day about evidence here and evidence there we demand evidence and not some anti russian rants on mp net.

    You keep repeating evidence but i only see rants so far, i am not sure you actually know the meaning of this word.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:10 pm

    Oh and of course, Otvaga2004 (a pro russian forum) IDing those captured rebel T-64s as definitly coming from Russia.


    OOOPS!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:11 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Read the thread. Entire convoys of armed men on ex-Russian mil trucks...yep, Russia is pretty terrible at controling its own borders Very Happy.

    And source is unian.net? Wink

    They just materialized in Ukraine, you are right ! Very Happy

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:12 pm

    TR1 wrote:Oh and of course, Otvaga2004 (a pro russian forum) IDing those captured rebel T-64s as definitly coming from Russia.


    OOOPS!

    From Russia?

    Those T-64 are ukrainian T-64 from Crimea, so who do we trust now?

    Ukrainian and the crappy West claim Crimea is still ukrainian so when they say it comes out of russia that is a blatant lie since they do not recognize Crimea to be russian, but they come from Ukrainian army from Crimea, russia does not have T-64 in their stocks.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:17 pm

    LOL what? The Russian army had THOUSANDS of T-64s. They were removed from service, but they served in a training role until a few years ago.
    You think the entire stock was cut up within a year or two? Really?

    The sep T-64s have a distinctly different look from the Crimean T-64s. Camo, ERA placement. Not that Russia giving them directly to the rebels would be anything BUT proof they are supporting them blatantly, but the Uks did they got all the Crieam T-64s from Russia fairly early on.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:19 pm

    TR1 wrote:LOL what? The Russian army had THOUSANDS of T-64s. They were removed from service, but they served in a training role until a few years ago.
    You think the entire stock was cut up within a year or two? Really?

    The sep T-64s have a distinctly different look from the Crimean T-64s. Camo, ERA placement. Not that Russia giving them directly to the rebels would be anything BUT proof they are supporting them blatantly, but the Uks did they got all the Crieam T-64s from Russia fairly early on.

    I see you gave up your arguments about trucks and focus on tanks now. Wink


    Sorry, but in my opinion, "distinct difference from crimean T-64" 'n stuff is just grasping at straws.

    Because you should question not the fact of their delivery, but facts of their sustained operations.
    OK, let's assume for a second that russia did deliver T-64s. But what about spare parts, engines? Russia doesn't produce 5TDs/6TDs, are they going to buy them from Pakistan or something?  Very Happy

    Also, where's the guarantee of personel being found to operate and maintain them at all? Tanks require a bit more training than ATGMs for example.


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:26 pm

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=770&p=28

    Ahhh! It hurts! It hurts!

    I said enough about trucks. An infant can put two and two together, but some prefer to shut their eyes and say "NO! they appeared there! All those Russian citizens and RPOs and Russian ex-mil trucks and T-64s!"

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:29 pm

    Go ahead my friends, explain that little problem away Smile.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:31 pm

    TR1 wrote:Go ahead my friends, explain that little problem away Smile.

    You mean this?



    I remember there was some discussion regarding ERA gaps with these same photos, but turned out BS in the end.

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