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    Promising destroyer "Lider-class"

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:42 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    For the Med./Red Sea & the Atlantic too. They could do BMD patrols in the Black Sea itself. If a waterway across Iran is built, 1-2 could be home ported in Caspiisk & sail to the Indian Ocean from there.

    Choking a commercial waterway by cruiser not good idea IMHO. Cheaper to build a base either in Sudan or Iran.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:20 am

    Other ships/barges can sail in front & astern of it at a safe distance, enforced by security/CG/police boats. Kiel, Panama & Suez canals r being used all the time, not to mention the Bosporus Strait.
    Iran can't have foreign bases as per its constitution. Sudan can, but a capital ship won't be forward deployed there. The USN did it in Japan but only with the oldest CVs that were due to retire in ~10 years.
    CVNs r different as they must to dance around their refueling schedules that can be done only on US E. Coast & other factors.
    BMD can be done as good as or even better in/from the Caspian Sea as it's directly SE/SW & South of Central Russia, W. Siberia & the Urals full of industry, internal waterways/canals, population centers, AF/BM bases, & transportation network.
    http://www.angelfire.com/nm/duga/rusmap002.jpg


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  kumbor on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:15 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote: keep calm GarryB and Ehniee Laughing
    and fuckin proceed lol1 lol1 lol1

    Such wavering from side to side concerning size and displacement (200x20m, armoured with extensive built in protection, 19.000 tons D, what kind of powerplant, how many ships - from 2 to 12) indicates very early stage in projecting - still "paper games". Russian navy still doesn`t know if there is even a need for such capital ships, as 19.000t is a displacement of a pr.1144 - Orlan - Kirov. I think that SPKB should better address ME in defining basic characteristics of a project! cheers welcome
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    Post  hoom on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:33 am

    Kirovs are 250m * 28.5m & 25,000ton, thats still a lot bigger.
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    Post  kumbor on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:43 pm

    hoom wrote:Kirovs are 250m * 28.5m & 25,000ton, thats still a lot bigger.

    Sorry, I made a mistake concerning displacement of Kirovs. Nevertheless, L-200m, B-20m and 19.000tD indicates existence of full constructive protection - armoured belt, armoured deck, armoured traverse bulkheads, underwater protection of some kind, which all results in armoured citadel similar to battlecruiser or even battleship. I bet it`s some joke, somebody`s playing naval engineer type of Watts or even admiral Fisher! Оr it is simply DEZA - дезинформация - false information on purpose.
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    Post  eehnie on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:16 am

    The kind of positive new that a person like George1 habitually fails to include.

    http://to-ros.info/?p=72851

    Posted by 02/17/2019 4:38 by admin

    New Russian nuclear destroyer will be named in honor of the cruiser "Rurik"

    Облик эсминца проекта 23560

    The second serial squadron of the project 23560 in the series, which will serve in the Pacific Fleet, will be called "Rurik". Vladimir Kartashev, Director of the Marine Search and Research Center of the Pacific Fleet Iskra, told about this at a meeting of the Public Council of the Duma of the city of Vladivostok, Pacific Russia reports .

    “This year we have obtained from the high command of the Navy the assignment of the name Rurik to a ship of the first rank with a nuclear installation — the destroyer of project 23560 — the second ship in the series to serve in the Pacific Fleet,” said Vladimir Kartashev. He is quoted by the press service of the Duma of Vladivostok.

    The exact technical parameters of the promising Russian destroyer have not yet been disclosed. Presumably, it will have a displacement of 13-14 thousand tons. At the expense of modern weapons, it will be superior in terms of anti-submarine capabilities to a large anti-submarine ship, the BOD, and in attack and anti-aircraft - today's destroyers and missile cruisers, except for Peter the Great and its "classmates."
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    Post  hoom on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:37 am

    Thats certainly a curiously specific tid-bit scratch
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:40 am

    hoom wrote:Thats certainly a curiously specific tid-bit scratch

    Always some "well hidden" sources, never MoD or Tass. Eehnie already has recorded history of seeing things other dont.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:30 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    hoom wrote:Thats certainly a curiously specific tid-bit scratch

    Always some "well hidden" sources, never MoD or Tass. Eehnie already has recorded history of seeing things other dont.

    First ship will be called Xenia Onatopp lol1
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:12 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    hoom wrote:Thats certainly a curiously specific tid-bit scratch

    Always some "well hidden" sources, never MoD or Tass. Eehnie  already has recorded history of seeing things other dont.

    First ship will be called Xenia Onatopp lol1

    I remember they said that the first one should carry the name of Yevgeni Maximovich Primakov , former prime minister (and previously foreign minister) of Russia, the one that, on his way to Washington for an official visit ordered is airplane to turn around and return to Moscow, when he learned that NATO had started bombing Serbia.

    As foreign minister he also presented a plan to change the new post cold war US lead unipolarity and develop new strategic ties with India and China.

    He did not want Russia to continue its subservient foreign policy guided by the US.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:03 am

    Shiiiit 100 Zircons? more than Orlans by 25%. And Orlan is a battle cruiser and Lider is a destroyer?   Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    But since 22350-M frigates will have displacement comparable with Slavas Im ok with thas  lol1  lol1  lol1


    100bln ~ $1,5bn


    Source: Russia plans to build two destroyers of the type "Leader" by the end of the 2020s

    According to preliminary data, the cost of the construction of each ship will be 100 billion rubles, the source said.
    MOSCOW, February 28. / TASS /. By the end of the 2020s, Russia plans to build two destroyers with a nuclear power plant of the Leader type project 23560, the cost of creating each ship will be about 100 billion rubles. This was reported by Tass source in the shipbuilding industry.

    According to him, the draft design of the destroyer has been completed, research works and technical project preparation are underway.

    "Under the current state armament program for 2018–2027, design and development work on a destroyer should begin in 2021 with the transition directly to construction. The construction of one ship will take seven years, according to preliminary estimates,” the agency’s source said.

    The source said that "by the end of the 2020s, two destroyers of the type" Leader "(head and first serial - TASS) are planned to be launched." "The cost of the construction of each ship, previously, will be 100 billion rubles," - he added.

    The interlocutor said that the destroyers' maximum length will reach 230 m, the displacement will be 20 thousand tons. "Leader" will be able to carry more than 100 high-precision Zirkon, Caliber or Onyx missiles, the source said.

    The United Shipbuilding Corporation did not comment on the TASS information provided by the source, but noted that "the corporation's enterprises are ready to build ships of this class."

    As the deputy commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy for armaments, Viktor Bursuk, reported in the summer of 2018, the development of the technical design for the new ship is scheduled to begin in 2019-2020, and completed sometime in 2022, after which the first ship will be laid. Bursuk also reported that funding for the shipbuilding program was provided for the creation of a new destroyer.
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6167819
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    Post  Nibiru on Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:00 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:


    Source: Russia plans to build two destroyers of the type "Leader" by the end of the 2020s



    I sincerely hope that this project will not get dragged down with delays like the current Gorshkov. otherwise delays might add up another 10 or so years in its construction and by then most of us here might not even be around to see the ship
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:33 am

    Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.

    Any news on its air deffence?


    Also nuclear power means it can travel long distances and will most likely be used in the exact role of the cruisers of old so you may aswell think of it as a cruiser by purpose.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 am

    Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.
    They'll have a mix of missiles- read the quote, it mentions Onixes & Calibres too.
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    Post  kumbor on Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:51 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.

    Any news on its air deffence?


    Also nuclear power means it can travel long distances and will most likely be used in the exact role of the cruisers of old so you may aswell think of it as a cruiser by purpose.

    For God`s sake! This is naval subforum! Ships do not TRAVEL! Ships sail, no matter there are no sails, but they sail! Russians have very much practice concerning surface nuclear propulsion. New generation of RITM (Rhytm) modular reactors should make possible wide range of nuclear powerplants of various power. Apart from reactors, Russians are very capable of producing turbines and necessary reductors! But, western sanctions are taking their toll, cutting the connections with latest western innovations. Even Peter Velikiy is already over 20 year old. The response is needed, and quickly! Americans have many problems with their new ships. Ticonderogas are being phased out. The project of new frigates is still on the drawing board, and the whole US navy relies on excellent DDGs Arleigh Burke, whose project dates from early 80s. LCSs are not to be taken seriously and Zumwalts are a complete fail!
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:44 am

    kumbor wrote:western sanctions are taking their toll, cutting the connections with latest western innovations.  

    like?





    The-thing-next-door wrote:Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.

    100 Zircons is enough to take down ll CSGs really. As for AADs I'd assume S-500 will be included.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:46 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.
    They'll have a mix of missiles- read the quote, it mentions Onixes & Calibres too.


    it can be 100 Kalibrs but 100 UKSK-Ms can be filled by Zircons. Of course it is overkill since take down CSG is really 1/5 at most enough.



    Nibiru wrote:  I sincerely hope that this project will not get dragged down with delays like the current Gorshkov. o

    Zircon's ready, Poliment-Redut ready, money on table, why delays now?[/quote]
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    Post  Hole on Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:31 am

    + no gas turbines from some unnamed place that have to be replaced by new ones.
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    Post  kumbor on Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:34 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kumbor wrote:western sanctions are taking their toll, cutting the connections with latest western innovations.  

    like?





    The-thing-next-door wrote:Wow 100 zirkons that sound like about enough fun to go around an entire carrier group.

    100 Zircons is enough to take down ll CSGs really. As for AADs I'd assume S-500 will be included.

    Suspended technological ties with MTU AG. There are no better diesels than MTU! Ban on supplying of any technology that can be used for military purpose - and that means MAJORITY OF HIGH END TECHNOLOGIES!
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    Post  kumbor on Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:38 am

    Hole wrote:+ no gas turbines from some unnamed place that have to be replaced by new ones.

    I don`t catch!? Russia has all blueprints, all documentation, but is for already four years unable to start series production of GTs, badly needed for naval vessels ! Almost half of surface ships, if such powered are in need of replacement GTs!
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    Post  Nibiru on Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:39 pm



    Russia has all blueprints, all documentation, but is for already four years unable to start series production of GTs, badly needed for naval vessels ! Almost half of surface ships, if such powered are in need of replacement GTs!

    Russia cannot afford to just sit down and take their time when dealing with issues like this as if its still peacetime. Nato is ALREADY knocking on Russia’s doorsteps itching for a total war. More delays in Russia’s military modernization is a fatal mistake that Russians need to address to be averted.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:49 am

    kumbor wrote:
    Sorry, from land AA system already in service to fully capable naval system on deck of a warship - there is a long way to go. At least, there are different  needs of anti-corrosion prevention, sea clutter for radar, stabilisation issues , and much more. I`m a lawyer and interpreter, not an engineer!

    Mind Russians have still 10 years ahead. S-500 task is hypersonic warheads and ICBMs so very valid tasks for a cruiser.

    Poliment-Redut and S-350 were ccepted the same time BTW




    kumbor wrote:Suspended technological ties with MTU AG. There are no better diesels than MTU! Ban on supplying of any technology that can be used for military purpose - and that means MAJORITY OF HIGH END TECHNOLOGIES!

    Are you serious? what precise technologies were ever sold to Russia? . Nobody  sells latest technology. Neva' eva' . Especially  for military in  Russia  

    And MTU is by no means critical nor high tech. Do you really think that Russians cannot develop standard diesel engines but could mini nuclear rectors, super-cavitating nuclear drones  or hypersonic  missiles? affraid affraid affraid

    It is more like pissing Russians off then any real stab.



    @ThingND - indeed S-500 seems to be its very important component .As prt of Russian ABM


    Hole wrote:+ no gas turbines from some unnamed place that have to be replaced by new ones.

    Turbines were called incorrectly Ukropistani . This was Soviet design, Ukrops did nothing else by their own.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:04 am

    Nibiru wrote:

    Russia cannot afford to just sit down and take their time when dealing with issues like this as if its still peacetime. Nato is ALREADY knocking on Russia’s doorsteps itching for a total war. More delays in Russia’s military modernization is a fatal mistake that Russians need to address to be averted.


    so how would you do it with limited resources? tell me

    BTW there is prioritization you know. Nuclear forces with 15-20 min delivery to US is best thingy to keep any NATO attemptes out.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:11 am

    Do you really think that Russians cannot develop standard diesel engines but could mini nuclear rectors, super-cavitating nuclear drones  or hypersonic  missiles?
    The Chinese discovered gun powder but had inferior cannons & no forearms during the Opium Wars.
    The USSR had the space shuttle Buran, a multiple use vehicle, but didn't have & couldn't produce its own disposable hypodermic needles. They also had heavy industry producing tanks, trucks, tractors, aircraft, ships, military uniforms, etc., but clothing, cars & other consumer goods were of low quality. Which is more complicated?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:46 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The USSR had the space shuttle Buran, a multiple use vehicle, but didn't have & couldn't produce its own disposable hypodermic needles.

    source?



    They also had heavy industry producing tanks, trucks, tractors, aircraft, ships, military uniforms, etc., but clothing, cars & other consumer goods were of low quality. Which is more complicated?

    if Soviets did steal as US/EU did from Latin America, Asia, Africa for hundredths of years they could to anything they wanted.
    But in order not to end up being bombed/nuked  by US Soviets need to focus on defenses t first.

    BTW I  lived then in Soviet bloc and what low quality you do mean  precisely ?[/quote]

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