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    Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

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    GarryB
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:05 am

    WTH are they acting like adding calibrs and landattack SSMs on a ship is such a huge step forward? Are they implying saying no russian surface ship ever built has had any land attack weapons other than cannons?

    Because previously only the cruise missile called Granat (SS-N-21) could hit land targets and it had a nuclear payload so using it in most minor conflicts was not really practical.

    the Kalibr on the other hand has terminal guidance and a conventional warhead and a 2,500km flight range to hit a variety of ground targets and work on the Brahmos means it too will have land attack capability which could be transferred to the Onyx.

    Previous Soviet and Russian ships had no land attack capability except nuclear armed (SS-N-21), or cannon based or unguided rocket barrage based (Grad).


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    Firebird
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Firebird on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:48 pm

    The pics we've seen associated with the new destroyer look a lot like a larger version of the Gorshkov class frigate ie modern, but not "unconventional".

    I notice the US Zummwalt and the ships like the Swedish Visby class corvette seem radically different.

    Would a state of the art Leader class destroyer/cruiser look more like the Zummwalt or Visby?
    Or is there a lot of unnecessary gimmickry in the design/styling of those two stealth ships


    pics
    RUSSIA'S LEADER CLASS
    http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/russia-leader-class.jpg

    Zummwalt
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/USS_Zumwalt_%28DDG-1000%29_at_night.jpg

    Visby
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/K32_HMS_Helsingborg_Anchored-of-Gotska-Sandoen_cropped.jpg

    This isn't a criticism of the Leader btw. I am sure that with its missile systems unparalleled anywhere in the World, it will set the standard for all rivals for the next couple of decades, atleast.
    Just a query about the look of it, and how that might pertain to function.

    Perhaps stealth is a bit overhyped by some rivals?

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:30 pm

    Firebird wrote:The pics we've seen associated with the new destroyer look a lot like a larger version of the Gorshkov class frigate ie modern, but not "unconventional".

    I notice the US Zummwalt and the ships like the Swedish Visby class corvette seem radically different.

    Would a state of the art Leader class destroyer/cruiser look more like the Zummwalt or Visby?
    Or is there a lot of unnecessary gimmickry in the design/styling of those two stealth ships


    pics
    RUSSIA'S LEADER CLASS
    http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/russia-leader-class.jpg

    Zummwalt
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/USS_Zumwalt_%28DDG-1000%29_at_night.jpg

    Visby
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/K32_HMS_Helsingborg_Anchored-of-Gotska-Sandoen_cropped.jpg

    This isn't a criticism of the Leader btw. I am sure that with its missile systems unparalleled anywhere in the World, it will set the standard for all rivals for the next couple of decades, atleast.
    Just a query about the look of it, and how that might pertain to function.

    Perhaps stealth is a bit overhyped by some rivals?

    Actually I've seen models of perspective future Russian littoral ships (that are 'not' fan art) at Russian naval military expos that look like a cross between the Zummwalt class DDG and the Trimaran LCS. I think Russian MOD and the Ru-Navy would be more comfortable with going with a radical design in smaller displacement ships while going for more conventional designs for larger displacement ships to ultimately minimize the increased technical complexity that come with larger ships already.







    GarryB
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:59 am

    The main benefit from a radical new design has to be tangible and real.

    Making some tri hulled boat just because it is different from everything else being made is a ridiculous risk for little real gain.

    Those western designs seem to be to be a case of style over substance... let H R Giger design stuff and it will look really cool but what exact benefit are we talking about in terms of military capacity?

    the Russian military already went down the path of custom designed ships with custom designed propulsion and weapons and sensors and systems and ended up with dozens of different ships with dozens of different weapons that didn't quite do the same thing and were not compatible.

    the new plan is standardisation... the missiles going into a UKSK launcher on the smallest corvette are the same as the missiles going into the largest cruiser... the difference is that the Corvette might carry 4 anti sub missiles and 4 anti ship missiles whereas a cruiser might carry 20 anti sub missiles and 20 anti ship missiles and 40 land attack cruise missiles.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:29 pm

    In St. Petersburg, continue to work on a project perspective destroyer "Leader" for the Russian Navy

    It was reported that the displacement of "leaders" can be from 10 to 15 thousand tons, and the ship can get an atomic power plant. According to a source TASS destroyer were armed with cruise missiles "Caliber" and "Onyx" or their modifications, as well as anti-aircraft missile system S-500, capable of destroying, including weapons in space.

    runaway
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  runaway on Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:00 pm

    Firebird wrote:The pics we've seen associated with the new destroyer look a lot like a larger version of the Gorshkov class frigate ie modern, but not "unconventional".

    I notice the US Zummwalt and the ships like the Swedish Visby class corvette seem radically different.

    Would a state of the art Leader class destroyer/cruiser look more like the Zummwalt or Visby?
    Or is there a lot of unnecessary gimmickry in the design/styling of those two stealth ships


    pics
    RUSSIA'S LEADER CLASS
    http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/russia-leader-class.jpg

    Zummwalt
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/USS_Zumwalt_%28DDG-1000%29_at_night.jpg

    Visby
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/K32_HMS_Helsingborg_Anchored-of-Gotska-Sandoen_cropped.jpg

    This isn't a criticism of the Leader btw. I am sure that with its missile systems unparalleled anywhere in the World, it will set the standard for all rivals for the next couple of decades, atleast.
    Just a query about the look of it, and how that might pertain to function.

    Perhaps stealth is a bit overhyped by some rivals?

    The Visby class is primarly not an ocean going warship, its custom made for operating along the Swedish coast and in the baltic. Its main advantage is stealth, and its concentrating on that.
    For examaple the ship havent got AA missiles. Fast hit then hide behind an island, like old time torpedo boats.

    The Zummmvalt i see as an prototype, maybe an expensive failure. If iam not wrong, main task is bombarding, gun support in landing operations.

    The Leader is not to be a new "lada" test prototyp, but a top of the line Destroyer. Therefore it will be more of an evolution of Gorshkov i think, not a revolutionary new design.


    flamming_python
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:16 pm

    Haha, I've been saying all along that the destroyers will get S-500 systems.

    Mobile ABM defense What a Face

    In the future those nuclear reactors can be used to power ABM lasers too. The ships will position itself close enough to launch silos to target the ICBMs during short boost phase, or in the regions where enemy SSBNs would be suspected to launch their SLBMs from.
    There is no need to be too precise; as long as they're within 1000km or so the earth's curvature will still be shallow enough to allow the missiles to be targetted and the laser would still be powerful enough to burn through to their unshielded propellant tanks and wreck havoc on their propulsion or cause the destruction of the missiles altogether..

    TR1
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:11 pm

    Firebird wrote:The pics we've seen associated with the new destroyer look a lot like a larger version of the Gorshkov class frigate ie modern, but not "unconventional".

    I notice the US Zummwalt and the ships like the Swedish Visby class corvette seem radically different.

    Would a state of the art Leader class destroyer/cruiser look more like the Zummwalt or Visby?
    Or is there a lot of unnecessary gimmickry in the design/styling of those two stealth ships


    pics
    RUSSIA'S LEADER CLASS
    http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/russia-leader-class.jpg

    Zummwalt
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/USS_Zumwalt_%28DDG-1000%29_at_night.jpg

    Visby
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/K32_HMS_Helsingborg_Anchored-of-Gotska-Sandoen_cropped.jpg

    This isn't a criticism of the Leader btw. I am sure that with its missile systems unparalleled anywhere in the World, it will set the standard for all rivals for the next couple of decades, atleast.
    Just a query about the look of it, and how that might pertain to function.

    Perhaps stealth is a bit overhyped by some rivals?

    That thing has absolutely NOTHING to do with Leader.

    The details of what Leader will have and not have are not even finalized.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  xeno on Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:49 pm



    Leader model shown in TV
    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201502081542-k8ae.htm

    My beauty, see you in 20 years (crying...)

    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:09 pm

    xeno wrote:

    My beauty, see you in 20 years (crying...)

    This is good :3 and looks very inspiring.

    TR1
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:45 pm

    "....Модели целиком разработаны в Крыловском научном центре..."
    Дальше можно не дискутировать.

    From AlexNAVY.


    Leader won't look anything like that monstrosity, sorry guys.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:50 pm

    Here's the video uploaded youtube:


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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:29 pm

    What aircraft carrier model is that shown?

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:37 pm

    wilhelm wrote:What aircraft carrier model is that shown?

    Supposedly the next-generation aircraft carrier/battlecruiser which is slated to have a displacement of 85 K tons, but don't get your hopes up, it won't be sailing oceans before 2030.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:45 am

    Thanks Magnum.

    GarryB
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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:42 am

    On another forum it is stated that that video is of a Russian company that refines designs but doesn't design boats itself.

    In other words another company gives them a design with all the parts and bits they need and this company refines the design to optimise it.

    In other words these are prototype shapes that may never see service... the designs presumably are handed back to the designing company for production refinement and then submitted to the navy for approval/criticism.


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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:48 am

    Grainy Pictures have emerged from Russian Design Bureau on New Nuclear Powered Destroyer Leader

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/58358/





    6 * 10 = 60 large cells (for example, long-distance air defense missiles / missile type 40N6E or 4 smaller anti-aircraft missiles, a total of 240 missiles)

    12 * 4 = 48 very large cells (though there fit hypersonic Zircon, though 4 Onyx / X-101, a total of 192 missiles).

    In total, 108 very large missiles or up to 432 smaller ones.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:51 am

    Austin wrote:Grainy Pictures have emerged from Russian Design Bureau on New Nuclear Powered Destroyer Leader

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/58358/





    6 * 10 = 60 large cells (for example, long-distance air defense missiles / missile type 40N6E or 4 smaller anti-aircraft missiles, a total of 240 missiles)

    12 * 4 = 48 very large cells (though there fit hypersonic Zircon, though 4 Onyx / X-101, a total of 192 missiles).

    In total, 108 very large missiles or up to 432 smaller ones.

    It's just a proposed design, at the end of the day Ru Navy and Ru MOD has the final say, and they could just as easily reject the design. I would like to be an optimist, but their's no telling with the Ru Navy, the domestic ship building industry needs major improvement, there's no other way around it.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:06 am

    That thing has nothing to do with Leader.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:45 am

    TR1 wrote:That thing has nothing to do with Leader.

    ofcourse it does its one of the proposal

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:06 am

    Navy is not taking proposals for an overall design from those guys.

    That ridiculous Pagoda superstructure would not even pass an initial stage of being considered.

    The particular bureau in question does hydrodynamic testing, nothing else.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:05 am

    Such Structure are seen on Western Ships and even on Indian newest P-15A Destroyer with Israel AESA.

    The Russian design of the structure is more angled and less cluttered. I see nothing wrong with the design.

    Ofcourse it can be refined further to make it less cluttered and more curvy i.e no Sharp Edges.

    Lets see , I wont say its a bad design this is very good design but needs refinement.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:19 pm

    Why is such a big mast necessary anyway, except making a ship with one incredibly hideous? Will russian future radars really be so bulky that they need this big christmas tree thingy to carry them?

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:13 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is such a big mast necessary anyway, except making a ship with one incredibly hideous? Will russian future radars really be so bulky that they need this big christmas tree thingy to carry them?
    hideous?! i say glorious!!! the colonial europeans never won over the uncivilized world when they pulled into shores in anything but huge masted ships, while the conquered peoples only had pathetic excuses for masts at best, mostly they had oars. kidding aside if they could make it real stealthy the increased range of radar horizon is prolly reason for taller masts. they are that bulky since they are supposed to be real powerful- lots of attendant systems to keep such powerful sensors from running out of power or burning out.

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:11 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is such a big mast necessary anyway, except making a ship with one incredibly hideous? Will russian future radars really be so bulky that they need this big christmas tree thingy to carry them?

    Like I said, no actual ship for the Russian navy will have such a superstructure, so discussing it is a waste of our time.

    It will look more conventional, think 22350 scaled up to Kirov size (well, not quite, but you get the point).

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