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    Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

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    George1

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:59 pm

    The destroyer "Leader" can be laid on the "Severnaya Verf" in 2018

    Promising destroyer "Leader" can be laid on the "Severnaya Verf" after its modernization. Cutting metal for the new destroyer is scheduled to begin in 2018.

    PETERSBURG, December 22 - RIA Novosti. The prospective destroyer "Leader" can be built at the plant "Severnaya Verf" after the modernization of the enterprise, work is scheduled to begin in 2018, told reporters on Tuesday the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), Alexey Rakhmanov.

    At the St. Petersburg plant "Severnaya Verf" on Tuesday hosted a ceremony installing the foundation stone in honor of the start of construction of a new shipbuilding complex.

    "Of course," Severnaya Verf "after the upgrade will be ready to accept this project, and we plan to start cutting metal at the plant for a new destroyer in 2018," - he said at the ceremony Rakhmanov.

    He added that the modernization of the production capacity of the enterprise will eventually be built on "Severnaya Verf" ships up to 350 meters.

    Premiere prospective destroyer Project 23560 "Leader" has become one of the biggest in the naval industry in Russia in 2015. The layout of the ship was unveiled at the International Military-Technical Forum "Army 2015".

    According to the Russian Navy, a new generation of destroyers will have a much larger displacement than its predecessors, and on the striking power will be comparable to cruisers. Performance characteristics confirm these words: "Leader" will have a displacement of about 17.5 thousand tons, a length of 200 meters and width of 20 meters.

    The ship will carry on board more than 200 missiles for various purposes - ship, anti-aircraft and anti-submarine. Most importantly, this project is not created for the long term, and for construction in the near future - USC notes that the final formation of the image of the destroyer will be completed in 2016, and the tab could take place in 2018-2019.

    The type of power plant it is finally approved.


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    kvs

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:17 pm

    Good choice to name the ship after Primakov. The above article skimps his major contribution after 1998 when he changed
    Russia's economic policy. The monetarist witch doctor voodoo economics was thrown out and the country was set on the
    road to recovery. If we had some scumbag like Kudrin in charge in 1998-1999, the country would have entered a super
    depression.

    Read this POS article:

    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1998-11-26/news/9811250562_1_russian-parliament-primakov-boris-yeltsin

    this is simply indirect confirmation gold and affirms Primakov's correct choices in the wake of the 1998 meltdown.

    Firebird

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Firebird on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:34 pm



    Its very interesting to see just how big this ship is for a so called destroyer.

    17.5k tons, for a ship with probably high levels of automation, thats pretty big. Not THAT far off Kirov size. We can guess that lasers, railguns and S-400 or S-500 are part of the plans.

    But I wonder how it will integrate with the rest of the navy. Obviously one benefit of its size is its range and its ability to handle rough seas. That suggests an element of power projection.

    There will probably be some huge changes with naval forces in the next 10, 20, 30 yrs. Drones and underwater drones, satellite technology etc are just some. Lasers, multi stage missiles eg warheads leave a "mother" missile and the mother missile returns to base. Or missiles with lasers attached. Tiny micro subs. Perhaps missile launchers that dig into the sea bed.

    So I wonder if the new Lider class destroyer will be part of a battle group with larger cruisers. Or with an aircraft carrier. Perhaps new large submarines will play a large part in the process too. For instance, submarine "mother ships" capable of launching a mini swarm of drone subs.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:05 pm

    Primakov was definitely a man who was ahead of his time. He laid the groundwork for today's Russian foreign policy; promoting a multi-polar world, Russia-China-India triad, opposing NATO expansion, etc...

    We don't hear much about him because his tenure as foreign minister was quite short, but it was here where he had the most impact and laid out the foundations that Lavrov would later build upon and Putin would later deem as priorities some 10 years after Primakov's tenure.

    Tyloe

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Tyloe on Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:19 am

    Krylov State Scientific Center handed over the preliminary design of lider to the navy. Another bureau will soon be in charge of the basic and final design of the class.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3737
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:53 pm

    Firebird wrote:

    Its very interesting to see just how big this ship is for a so called destroyer.

    17.5k tons, for a ship with probably high levels of automation, thats pretty big. Not THAT far off Kirov size. We can guess that lasers, railguns and S-400 or S-500 are part of the plans.

    But I wonder how it will integrate with the rest of the navy. Obviously one benefit of its size is its range and its ability to handle rough seas. That suggests an element of power projection.

    There will probably be some huge changes with naval forces in the next 10, 20, 30 yrs. Drones and underwater drones, satellite technology etc are just some. Lasers, multi stage missiles eg warheads leave a "mother" missile  and the mother missile returns to base. Or missiles with lasers attached. Tiny micro subs. Perhaps missile launchers that dig into the sea bed.

    So I wonder if the new Lider class destroyer will be part of  a battle group with larger cruisers. Or with an aircraft carrier. Perhaps new large submarines will play a large part in the process too. For instance, submarine "mother ships" capable of launching a mini swarm of drone subs.


    17k tons is a Cruiser class, like how America with that new ship of their's the Railgun mounted DD was meant to replace their cruiser force it had the name "Destroyer but had the tonnage of a cruiser. It's word games is all.

    Also I don't think we will see Russian lasers or railguns soon. They never never shown the ability to even test that stuff.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:58 pm

    Look up A-60. As well on Russian electromagnetic guns.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Militarov on Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:17 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Firebird wrote:

    Its very interesting to see just how big this ship is for a so called destroyer.

    17.5k tons, for a ship with probably high levels of automation, thats pretty big. Not THAT far off Kirov size. We can guess that lasers, railguns and S-400 or S-500 are part of the plans.

    But I wonder how it will integrate with the rest of the navy. Obviously one benefit of its size is its range and its ability to handle rough seas. That suggests an element of power projection.

    There will probably be some huge changes with naval forces in the next 10, 20, 30 yrs. Drones and underwater drones, satellite technology etc are just some. Lasers, multi stage missiles eg warheads leave a "mother" missile  and the mother missile returns to base. Or missiles with lasers attached. Tiny micro subs. Perhaps missile launchers that dig into the sea bed.

    So I wonder if the new Lider class destroyer will be part of  a battle group with larger cruisers. Or with an aircraft carrier. Perhaps new large submarines will play a large part in the process too. For instance, submarine "mother ships" capable of launching a mini swarm of drone subs.


    17k tons is a Cruiser class, like how America with that new ship of their's the Railgun mounted DD was meant to replace their cruiser force it had the name "Destroyer but had the tonnage of a cruiser. It's word games is all.

    Also I don't think we will see Russian lasers or railguns soon. They never never shown the ability to even test that stuff.

    You have flying laboratory Сокол-Эшелон A-60



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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:18 pm

    Russian electromagnetic radiation guns. Aren't Railguns.

    Hm I didn't know about the 60 still doesn't look like it will be operational for a ship weapon anytime soon. Maybe on the class after the leader tho if they get it work work right.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:24 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russian electromagnetic radiation guns. Aren't Railguns.

    Hm I didn't know about the 60 still doesn't look like it will be operational for a ship weapon anytime soon. Maybe on the class after the leader tho if they get it work work right.

    Actually in US Navy there is only 1 LaWS deployed, and it was never used in any kind of combat. So real laster weapons are still items from future.

    A60 is supposed to act aganist satelties, its not ment to be shipborne ever, however Russians did apparently test downscaled models of railguns.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:25 pm

    You need to brush up a bit. A-60 program wasn't even the first Soviet laser system. They had a ground based one too. Rail gun is essentially a electromagnetic gun. And yes, Russia also tested them.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:43 pm

    sepheronx wrote:You need to brush up a bit. A-60 program wasn't even the first Soviet laser system. They had a ground based one too. Rail gun is essentially a electromagnetic gun. And yes, Russia also tested them.

    There was 1K17 Szhatie



    There was also shipborne laser system OS-90 “FOROS” which used laser system dubbed "Aquilon"





    There was also SLK 1K11 "Stiletto":



    SLK "Sanguinius":



    There were also two tracked chemical contamination tracking and detection systems using "laser radars" but they were not ment to harm.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:15 pm

    Have any data on these tests and to the scale the tests got carried out? time period etc? have they been tested since.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:18 pm

    A-60 been tested frequently. Ground based wasn't too long ago but I don't know if since at all.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:30 pm

    A-60 first flew in 1981...

    Most of those laser vehicles are from 1980s too.


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    Project Canada

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Project Canada on Fri May 20, 2016 2:28 pm

    quick question, since the Leader is still in the planning/design stages, would it be possible to copy/incorporate some of Zumwalt's stealth features into it? from what I read about Zumwalt many commentators say its got good stealth..,
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 20, 2016 2:45 pm

    Project Canada wrote:quick question, since the Leader is still in the planning/design stages, would it be possible to copy/incorporate some of Zumwalt's stealth features into it? from what I read about Zumwalt many commentators say its got good stealth..,

    It is a 16 stories tall object in the middle of an ocean. It is getting detected no matter what.

    Stealth is for use against 3rd world militaries. Any military worth a damn will find it.

    A sales pitch nothing else.

    But Lider will have stealth features of course just won't be built around it.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Militarov on Fri May 20, 2016 3:05 pm

    Project Canada wrote:quick question, since the Leader is still in the planning/design stages, would it be possible to copy/incorporate some of Zumwalt's stealth features into it? from what I read about Zumwalt many commentators say its got good stealth..,

    Zumwalt as they claim has RCS of a "Small fishing boat". Naturally this is comparision journalists like to use. But its stealth features seem to be very well thought out.

    Leader will be stealthier than todays destroyers in Russian navy but i wouldnt expect it to be comparable to Zumwalt in that aspect.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  eehnie on Sat May 21, 2016 7:39 pm


    At this point I think it would be important for Russia to see the first of the new destroyers commissioned before the end of 2020.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 21, 2016 8:24 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    At this point I think it would be important for Russia to see the first of the new destroyers commissioned before the end of 2020.

    First Leader is expected to be built no earlier than 2023. with first to enter service around 2025.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 21, 2016 9:55 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    At this point I think it would be important for Russia to see the first of the new destroyers commissioned before the end of 2020.

    Not really, priority should be Gorshkov frigates, they should build as many as they can. Those ships are already capable of using Zircon missiles (they have UKSK launchers). New landing ships should also be high on the list.

    Lider destroyers will become (somewhat) necessary once laser and railgun systems are perfected due to high power consumption.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  eehnie on Sat May 21, 2016 10:57 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    At this point I think it would be important for Russia to see the first of the new destroyers commissioned before the end of 2020.

    Not really, priority should be Gorshkov frigates, they should build as many as they can. Those ships are already capable of using Zircon missiles (they have UKSK launchers). New landing ships should also be high on the list.

    Lider destroyers will become (somewhat) necessary once laser and railgun systems are perfected due to high power consumption.

    I think it can be good for Russia to have a modern project ready for production for every type of ship. In this case the first ship of the last project of destroyers produced until now was commissioned in 1980, and would not be bad for Russia to have this new project in production as fast as possible. Just the same happens with the antisubmarine destroyers or large ASW ships, that also want to replace this project. Again the first ship of the last class produced was commissioned in 1980. And there are other areas that are not far of these numbers. It seems too much time to me between generations. I do not consider the previous projects of destroyers obsolete, but I think the step between generations need to take less time, to improve the balance in the development of new projects and the construction of new ships. In overall terms it is good to give to the development and construction of ships of every type some continuity.

    I think it would be good if both projects can have some years of production in paralel. The production of the first unit of the new destroyers surely would not be a significant delay in the production of other ships, but would open the door to the production of more new destroyers in case of need for Russia.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun May 22, 2016 3:20 am


    The thing is that Gorshkov class frigate IS replacement for old destroyers.

    They are somewhat smaller but in terms of capabilities they are far superior. Udaloi class for example is focused on anti-sub operations and has pretty weak anti-ship and anti-air capabilities and no land-attack capability whatsoever.

    Gorshkov class on the other hand s true multirole warship with no real downsides: ships, subs, aircraft, land targets it can handle them all without a problem.

    These frigates have potential to become RU Navy's equivalent of Arley Burkh destroyer. Basically mass produced multirole backbone of the whole Navy.

    As for large destroyers they already said that they are taking their time because they want to be careful and avoid expensive mistakes made during Zumwalt program by US Navy
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    Dima

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 10:00 am

    Please add the project number to the topic title.....Project 23560


    22350 and 23560 should be given equal priority. Already there has been reports of yet another BLUNDER in the making which said it will be laid down at Severnya. These scums have already messed up Russian navy's two (& only new projects) primary rearmament projects and now they want to grab the 23560 as well.

    Hope better sense prevail and the project is laid down in parallel at Baltisky and Admiralty yards.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Promising destroyer / NIR Leader:

    Post  eehnie on Mon May 23, 2016 2:51 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    The thing is that Gorshkov class frigate IS replacement for old destroyers.

    They are somewhat smaller but in terms of capabilities they are far superior. Udaloi class for example is focused on anti-sub operations and has pretty weak anti-ship and anti-air capabilities and no land-attack capability whatsoever.

    Gorshkov class on the other hand s true multirole warship with no real downsides: ships, subs, aircraft, land targets it can handle them all without a problem.

    These frigates have potential to become RU Navy's equivalent of Arley Burkh destroyer. Basically mass produced multirole backbone of the whole Navy.

    As for large destroyers they already said that they are taking their time because they want to be careful and avoid expensive mistakes made during Zumwalt program by US Navy

    I do not know many exact details of the new destroyers of the project 23560, but I do not expect a weaker ship than a modern frigate. I would expect a ship in the mold of the new frigates but bigger and stronger. One of the few details that I know about the new project 23560 is that want to replace the ships of the projects 956 (destroyers) and 1155/11551 (anti submarine destroyers). It seems that the new destroyer want to be also multirole.

    If the project 23560 is good enough to go forward, I think it would be positive to start the production (of the first unit) fast.

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