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    Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

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    Werewolf
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:38 pm

    That guy is completley insane...


    Russia destroyed Georgia in 5 days under bad conditions, US shut down GPS the forces had then rely on what they know about map and compas to find back to coordination with other units. Russia can invade every boardering country,except China and Ukraine would be the easiest, half the country is on the side of Russia, Ukraine has obsolete military technology and almost every technology they have are in really bad shape, the country is torn apart only fascist and US terrorist are in the "national" guard.

    You must have so much russohobia that you ignore completley anything that is reflecting reality.

    It's just a sad way of discussing and it proves my point that forum is unfortunately taken over by a few extremists.

    Said the guy that really believes that if Russia invades in Ukraine that USA would launch 1000 Cruise Missiles and B-2 bombers and start WW3 for a shithole of country they care absoletuley nothing about. You kid are really insane if you believe US would give a shit about Ukraine and start WW3 for it.


    Ya, the so-called "mediocre U.S." has been rolling back Soviet/Russian influence big time everywhere since 1945 and 1991.

    You have some pathetic history education if you really believe American weaponary has "driven back" influence of Soviet Union. It was exact opposite. Soviet Union gained political and military influence untill 1991 and American weaponary and technology had nothing to do with it anything.


    Yet, still today in 2014, Russia is according to you "soooo strong" and can "defeat NATO". It clearly shows who is in touch with the reality.


    You are obviously an idiot. Nobody here said a single fucking word about Russia win over NATO or NATO win over Russia it means total annihilation, you dimwitted.

    T055
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  T055 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:43 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    Nothing is 100%. Sorry to say, but you are really doing a poor attempt at trolling and are probably a former member here whom was banned. Would not be surprising.
    ----------------------------------

    My reply:

    What I don't know? Yeah, clearly, several on here are 5-star generals  Very Happy 

    Yes, if several of you were actually using more or less neutral sources, it would have been great to discuss.

    I am not here to troll at all. Just think it's funny that extremists talk about how Russia is strong when the U.S. and it's allies have systematically rolled back year-by-year Soviet/Russian influence since 1945, and continue to do so as we speak. Denying this is denying the reality.

    I am sure when the U.S. fix up a coup in Belarus, there will still be several on here talking about "how strong" Russia is.

    According to World Bank, back in April, Russian economy might end up anywhere between -1,8% to 1,2%. According to IMF, their projections are between 0,2% and 0,5%. Either way, as I said, the best Russia can hope for is a 1% growth against an military and economic alliance that spends 12 times more on weapons than Russia. Has more than 6 times people than Russia and combined GDP 14 times bigger than Russia has.

    Werewolf
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:51 pm

    T055 wrote:

    What I don't know? Yeah, clearly, several on here are 5-star generals  Very Happy 

    Yes, if several of you were actually using more or less neutral sources, it would have been great to discuss.

    I am not here to troll at all. Just think it's funny that extremists talk about how Russia is strong when the U.S. and it's allies have systematically rolled back year-by-year Soviet/Russian influence since 1945, and continue to do so as we speak. Denying this is denying the reality.

    I am sure when the U.S. fix up a coup in Belarus, there will still be several on here talking about "how strong" Russia is.

    According to World Bank, back in April, Russian economy might end up anywhere between -1,8% to 1,2%. According to IMF, their projections are between 0,2% and 0,5%. Either way, as I said, the best Russia can hope for is a 1% growth against an military and economic alliance that spends 12 times more on weapons than Russia. Has more than 6 times people than Russia and combined GDP 14 times bigger than Russia has.

    Then why are are you here in the first place?

    If you don't like it why you don't go back to MP.net to other russophobes who believes NATO can destroy Russia, and if your beloved shit NATO is so strong why they did not invade Russia already?

    NATO is USELESS without USA, its a shit aggressive organisation that is absolutley worhtless and incapable just by taking one single country out of it.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:52 pm

    T055 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    Nothing is 100%. Sorry to say, but you are really doing a poor attempt at trolling and are probably a former member here whom was banned. Would not be surprising.
    ----------------------------------

    My reply:

    What I don't know? Yeah, clearly, several on here are 5-star generals  Very Happy 

    Yes, if several of you were actually using more or less neutral sources, it would have been great to discuss.

    I am not here to troll at all. Just think it's funny that extremists talk about how Russia is strong when the U.S. and it's allies have systematically rolled back year-by-year Soviet/Russian influence since 1945, and continue to do so as we speak. Denying this is denying the reality.

    I am sure when the U.S. fix up a coup in Belarus, there will still be several on here talking about "how strong" Russia is.

    According to World Bank, back in April, Russian economy might end up anywhere between -1,8% to 1,2%. According to IMF, their projections are between 0,2% and 0,5%. Either way, as I said, the best Russia can hope for is a 1% growth against an military and economic alliance that spends 12 times more on weapons than Russia. Has more than 6 times people than Russia and combined GDP 14 times bigger than Russia has.

    Yes yes yes. Russia weak. Thats why NATO was scared to attack Russians at Prastina airport in 1999? Yeah, very weak. Reminde when US actually wins a war. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.... such superpower those are.

    And having a larger economy sunk in debt isnt what I call advanced either. Eventually they will have to pay it back, and for some countries, it is more than their GDP.

    Things will start to roll in Russias economy when the Chinese pipeline opens and gas and oil start flowing their and they start paying. As well, all the infrastructure projects will help stimulate economy. $12 b and counting.

    T055
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  T055 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:54 pm

    Then why are are you here in the first place?

    If you don't like it why you don't go back to MP.net to other russophobes who believes NATO can destroy Russia, and if your beloved shit NATO is so strong why they did not invade Russia already?

    NATO is USELESS without USA, its a shit aggressive organisation that is absolutley worhtless and incapable just by taking one single country out of it.[/quote]
    ------------------------

    My reply:

    Believe me, I have nothing again Russia. Russia has the full right to defend itself against ever expanding NATO and EU. I have defended Russia on several forums.

    What I am against is to portray Russia as "the strong" one, when that's clearly NOT the case.

    Actually, you are falling for NATO-propaganda which likes to portray Russia as "BIG BAD BEAR", when the FACT is, Russia is NOT "BAD BEAR" and is still weak, just trying to defend it's interests against a NATO coup !

    T055
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  T055 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:57 pm

    Yes yes yes. Russia weak. Thats why NATO was scared to attack Russians at Prastina airport in 1999?
    And having a larger economy sunk in debt isnt what I call advanced either. Eventually they will have to pay it back, and for some countries, it is more than their GDP.

    Things will start to roll in Russias economy when the Chinese pipeline opens and gas and oil start flowing their and they start paying. As well, all the infrastructure projects will help stimulate economy. $12 b and counting.[/quote]
    ------------------------

    My reply with facts again:

    Yes, unfortunately, Russia is weak. We all know who controls Kosovo today. Do enlighten us, who controls Kosovo today - NATO or Russia/Serbia ?

    CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR REPLY ON THIS ONE  Laughing 

    2) While at it, say bye bye to Iraq, Libya and Syria as "solid countries". They are all destroyed now. ALL THREE. FACT.

    Now the U.S. is messing around in Ukraine/Moldova and even Venezuela.

    But ya, "Russia is the strongest"  Laughing 

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:02 pm

    T055 wrote:Yes yes yes. Russia weak. Thats why NATO was scared to attack Russians at Prastina airport in 1999?
    And having a larger economy sunk in debt isnt what I call advanced either. Eventually they will have to pay it back, and for some countries, it is more than their GDP.

    Things will start to roll in Russias economy when the Chinese pipeline opens and gas and oil start flowing their and they start paying. As well, all the infrastructure projects will help stimulate economy. $12 b and counting.
    ------------------------

    My reply with facts again:

    Yes, unfortunately, Russia is weak. We all know who controls Kosovo today. Do enlighten us, who controls Kosovo today - NATO or Russia/Serbia ?

    CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR REPLY ON THIS ONE  Laughing 

    2) While at it, say bye bye to Iraq, Libya and Syria as "solid countries". They are all destroyed now. ALL THREE. FACT.

    Now the U.S. is messing around in Ukraine/Moldova and even Venezuela.

    But ya, "Russia is the strongest"  Laughing [/quote]

    Just before leaving Afghanistan, they have to negotiate with Taliban. That says alot. Add in the fact that they are able to destabilize a nation from afar is not really hard. Justbecause Russia and China do not commit to that, cause it being a waste of money and time, doesnt meam they cant. As well, they hoped to liberate Iraq, and instead, created a mess.

    Yeah, Russia could do more to support their allies, but blame Putin for that. As for Kosovo, that is true, it was a brilliant plan of NATO. Too bad for Serbia.

    TheGeorgian
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:14 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Russia destroyed Georgia in 5 days under bad conditions

    I am amazed that you still take that as an example of how effective Russian army is ....

    It's redicilous. Even with given circumstances and early disadvantiges you were fighting a force several dozen times smaller, less experienced, organized, in far worse shape and outgunned, outmanouvred.

    I am also amazed how so many Russian supposed "military experts" and "analysts" talk about having defeated a "NATO trained and equipped" military force. Where exactly is the decicive NATO part there. Help me out, maybe I am simply unable to see it ....

    BTR-70 / 80
    BMP-1 / 2
    T-55 ( not even deployed ) / 72
    some Cobras
    a handfull operational Mi-24
    a handfull operational Su-25
    AK-47 / 74
    A bunch of Soviet AA and manpads
    old Soviet field guns, howitzers and MLRS

    NATO stuff:
    AR-15 ( used only by police )
    Landrovers
    Danas
    RM-70

    aaaaah, now I get it ! Those Landrovers !

    Werewolf
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:19 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Russia destroyed Georgia in 5 days under bad conditions

    I am amazed that you still take that as an example of how effective Russian army is ....

    It's redicilous. Even with given circumstances and early disadvantiges you were fighting a force several dozen times smaller, less experienced, organized, in far worse shape and outgunned, outmanouvred.

    I am also amazed how so many Russian supposed "military experts" and "analysts" talk about having defeated a "NATO trained and equipped" military force. Where exactly is the decicive NATO part there. Help me out, maybe I am simply unable to see it ....

    BTR-70 / 80
    BMP-1 / 2
    T-55 ( not even deployed ) / 72
    some Cobras
    a handfull operational Mi-24
    a handfull operational Su-25
    AK-47 / 74
    A bunch of Soviet AA and manpads
    old Soviet field guns, howitzers and MLRS

    NATO stuff:
    AR-15 ( used only by police )
    Landrovers
    Danas
    RM-70

    aaaaah, now I get it ! Those Landrovers !

    Stupidity strikes again.

    No one here exept you two nuts are talking about NATO vs Russia bullshit.

    Nobody else spoke about NATO vs Russia, but you two. IF you really need to force something out of context just so you can bitch around about it your welcome you only ridicule yourself.

    T055
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  T055 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:22 pm

    Just before leaving Afghanistan, they have to negotiate with Taliban. That says alot. Add in the fact that they are able to destabilize a nation from afar is not really hard. Justbecause Russia and China do not commit to that, cause it being a waste of money and time, doesnt meam they cant. As well, they hoped to liberate Iraq, and instead, created a mess.

    Yeah, Russia could do more to support their allies, but blame Putin for that. As for Kosovo, that is true, it was a brilliant plan of NATO. Too bad for Serbia.[/quote]
    -------------------------------------

    My reply:

    First of all, thank you finally for a "normal" reply.

    I am not anti-Russia, what I am pointing out is that several on here that say that Russia can defeat NATO anywhere in Eastern Europe are simply not connected with reality.

    Furthermore, they have fallen for NATO-propaganda that portrays Russia to the WHOLE WORLD as so-called "big, bad bear" that is "aggressive" and which we "all" have to look out for.
    When the FACT is, Russia is not a threat. Russia is not a superpower, and is just trying to defend its near-abroad interests which it has full right to do, since Ukraine or Kiev was a COUP.

    I cannot post links but if you take a look at the newest BBC/Global Scan for 2014 survey, you will find out how successfully the West has succeeded in destroying Russia's image abroad. Just google it, and take a look at it.

    So for me, I have to react when an alliance that spends 12 times more on weapons portrays Russia as the "bad aggressor", and several on here fall for that, saying Russia is sooooooo STRONG, when the fact is, it's still not, as the U.S. is systematically KILLING Russian allies. Saddam, Quadaffi, Chavez, ALL DEAD since 2006.

    And we all know Belarus is next on the list after Venezuela, and the front with Ukraine/Moldova is going to continue to be an anti-Russia front unfortunately.

    And yes, the U.S. does negotiate with Taliban, but that doesn't remove the fact that the U.S. has flattened whole Afghanistan to a level that not even "hell" can describe. So the point is, there are almost no countries in this world that can deny NATO to come to their territory and air space. Thats the problem that needs to be addressed.

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:35 pm

    Russia CAN beat USA everywhere in land. If they can somehow land in Mexico can conquer US as well.
    And stop using the term NATO is a joke. It's US only, their puppets OBVIOUSLY chicken out, they are not here to fight for US only because their leaders being paid heavily
    and some idiots (like you?) cheering with empty stomach, sad.

    TheGeorgian
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:08 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Stupidity strikes again.

    Yeah it strikes pretty hard.

    The only tupidity here is to take a redicilously insigfnificant confrontation in order to prove the effectiveness of an army.

    So far the Russian army hasn't really proven itself against a tougher opponent than Chechen and Mujahedeen insurgents. Ukraine didn't even put up a fight on Crimea.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:36 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Stupidity strikes again.

    Yeah it strikes pretty hard.

    The only tupidity here is to take a redicilously insigfnificant confrontation in order to prove the effectiveness of an army.

    So far the Russian army hasn't really proven itself against a tougher opponent than Chechen and Mujahedeen insurgents. Ukraine didn't even put up a fight on Crimea.

    During the first war, chechens had a lot of military gear, including tanks. Add insult to injury, they were trained the same as the rest of Russia and post soviet states. Yet Russia manages to pacify them at a cost.  US is fighting insurgents who were trained by CIA and Pakistan ISI and now the issue has blown up in their face to extreme. If US wants to flatten everything, they can. But so can Russia, as they have the missiles, tanks, cruise missiles and the like. What they dont have is what I think you are aiming at is the PR side of things. In other words, they cannot get away with it scott free like US can, to which I agree with you on. But militarily, they can do it. Politically they cannot.

    That is why you will not have them go head on. They would rather use satellite states. But even if NATO combined spends more than Russia, it all depends on what. EU gear costs a fortune for little gain, US equipment cost a lot for a fair gain. Russian equipment is cheap for Russians and does what it needs to (although prices are going up). Add to that, about 2/3 the cost goes to maintaining military bases and paying the personell.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:46 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    So far the Russian army hasn't really proven itself against a tougher opponent than Chechen and Mujahedeen insurgents. Ukraine didn't even put up a fight on Crimea.


    Ohh yes, because russia makes only war to "proof its capability".

    Like USA always aims for fair opponents with good military like Iraq,Serbia,Lybia,Afghanistan and uses its meatgrinder dogs called NATO, how stronkkkk from USA to fight always such mighty opponents.


    Maybe you should keep your head out of some filthy rears and come back to reality and constructive conversations rather than throwing ape shit around.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  medo on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Russia destroyed Georgia in 5 days under bad conditions

    I am amazed that you still take that as an example of how effective Russian army is ....

    It's redicilous. Even with given circumstances and early disadvantiges you were fighting a force several dozen times smaller, less experienced, organized, in far worse shape and outgunned, outmanouvred.

    I am also amazed how so many Russian supposed "military experts" and "analysts" talk about having defeated a "NATO trained and equipped" military force. Where exactly is the decicive NATO part there. Help me out, maybe I am simply unable to see it ....

    BTR-70 / 80
    BMP-1 / 2
    T-55 ( not even deployed ) / 72
    some Cobras
    a handfull operational Mi-24
    a handfull operational Su-25
    AK-47 / 74
    A bunch of Soviet AA and manpads
    old Soviet field guns, howitzers and MLRS

    NATO stuff:
    AR-15 ( used only by police )
    Landrovers
    Danas
    RM-70

    aaaaah, now I get it ! Those Landrovers !

    Cobra vehicles are from Turkey.

    You forget UH-1 helicopters from US, Grom MANPADs from Poland, SPYDER SAMs from Israel. Harris communication and C3I complex from US, US made ELINT complex in Gori, Radar picture from Turkey and picture from NATO satellites. Also Georgian T-72SIM tanks were modernized by Israel with thermal imager and new FCS, new communications and C3I. Georgian Su-25 were also modernized with Israelis to be compatible with NATO standard.

    Although big part of armament were Soviet made, Georgia use NATO communications, C3I, ELINT, command and unit formation structure and NATO strategy and doctrine of warfare.

    Georgia have qualitative and quantitative superiority against Russian units till last two days, but Russian army have a will to fight and NATO strategy and structure collapse. Russian army operation was limited to 1 tunnel, which was also jammed by refugees.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Firebird on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:00 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Firebird wrote:Maybe the Kiev regime wont be around too long. It doesnt need that long to commit mass slaughter of civillians.

    What are the casualty figures so far?...I wouldn't call it a mass slaughter if you compare it to similar conflicts. It's starting to heat up now, but until recently it's been a sort of a phony war.

    Anyway, by saving the bulk of the fighters from the Slavyansk front, the pro-Russians have bought themselves some time. The most important point is probably Saur Mogila heights which they control. If they can hold it, the Kiev regime forces will find it hard to move on Donetsk (difficult to establish supply lines without control of the heights). It was the sight for hard battles in WWII as well. There are reports that Ljashko's battalion has lost about 2/3 of it's personel assaulting the Saur Mogila heights in the past few days.

    Many more Russian (in reality, if not in passports) lives lost than during 888.
    It might not be the numbers killed of the Middle East after the US invasions, or Rwanda on itself.
    But Russia isnt Rwanda or Iraq.

    Its not just soldiers but innocent civillians.

    Russian intervention would save many lives. Both pro Russians and neutrals who are currently forced to fight for Banderite scum and Willy Wanker of the chocolate factory.

    Any responsible Russian military would have had offensives drawn up years in advance. Its not like this has happened out of the blue.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:46 pm

    Strizh wrote:We would crush the imperial destroyer!

    We.
    Must.
    Close.
    The star destroyer gap!

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:06 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Russia destroyed Georgia in 5 days under bad conditions

    I am amazed that you still take that as an example of how effective Russian army is ....

    It's redicilous. Even with given circumstances and early disadvantiges you were fighting a force several dozen times smaller, less experienced, organized, in far worse shape and outgunned, outmanouvred.

    Russian forces hardly outnumbered the Georgians over the first 3 days of active warfare; the Georgians were more numerous in fact in S. Ossetia and Russia had to rush reinforcements in but they never gained a numerical advantage.

    The Georgian army also did absolutely fine against the S. Ossetians. Within 12 hours it had already broke through the Ossetian defenses and was streaming into Tskinvali - the Russian peacekeeper garrison meanwhile was holding on by a thread and near collapse. They were trained by the US, by the Israelis, had some experienced officers and professionals who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, and by many reports it still had some such Israeli specialists leading and guiding it during the attack.

    The Russians had absolutely no room for maneuver, not counting the Russian marine landing in Abkhazia (which didn't take part in the fighting), Russia was only able to send forces through just one tunnel, that the Georgians had every opportunity to interdict but failed to do so.
    When the Russian advance columns made it through, they made a beeline straight for Tskinvali - no manuever, no nothing - it was a risky move and certain to cause casualties; in fact a Russian column found itself meeting a Georgian assault on the city head on. But it was neccessery, as the Peacekeepers had to be reinforced within the shortest possible time, or they would be overrun.

    Outgunned? Theoretically yes, but in practice - what did Russia have in theater? And even more importantly, what did it manage to bring into Ossetia during those 3 days? A lot of light armour such as BTRs and BMDs, the armour it had were T-72s and the occassional T-62; no better and in fact slightly worse than the Georgian Israeli-upgraded T-72 variants.
    Georgia had some good close air-support with the Israeli-upgraded Su-25s; Russia had bog standard Su-25s and I don't think helicopters played much of a role in the conflict; although Georgia had a good amount of transport and combat helicopters itself.
    Artillery? Once again Russia didn't have much on hand in Ossetia; Georgia on the other hand had all the heights it commanded before the war, and the heights it seized after the war; it could have placed however many D-30s it wished on them, and in fact it placed a fair few but didn't use them effectively against the Russian forces. Same with the Grads; Georgia had plenty of them, they tore up Tskinvali pretty good.
    The only thing Russia had a definite superiority in was Naval and Air power. The former was ultimately insignificant; a naval battle occured where Georgia was extremely outclassed/gunned but then again it didn't decide anything anyway in the end, amphibious operations were used for reinforcing Abkhazia which didn't take part in hostilities, Georgians ended up a little preoccupied lets say.
    And the later, air-power, was significant admitedly; Russia had a superiority in fighters, recon aircraft, tactical bombers and all those kept the Georgian UAVs and helicopter fleet grounded, and gave problems to the Georgian Su-25s too.
    But then again, this fighting was going on over the Georgia side of the Caucasus mountains; thus it was Georgian air-defenses which posed a threat, and these were perfectly modern - Buk-M1s crewed by Ukrainian crews among them.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  TheGeorgian on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:49 am

    medo wrote:
    Cobra vehicles are from Turkey.

    You forget UH-1 helicopters from US, Grom MANPADs from Poland, SPYDER SAMs from Israel. Harris communication and C3I complex from US, US made ELINT complex in Gori, Radar picture from Turkey and picture from NATO satellites. Also Georgian T-72SIM tanks were modernized by Israel with thermal imager and new FCS, new communications and C3I. Georgian Su-25 were also modernized with Israelis to be compatible with NATO standard.

    Although big part of armament were Soviet made, Georgia use NATO communications, C3I, ELINT, command and unit formation structure and NATO strategy and doctrine of warfare.


    None of what you mentioned above had any significance in fighting against Russian forces, except of GROM missiles which damaged some Su-25s. UH-1 is only transport and we got what 5-7 maybe ? I don't think they were even used. Spyder was rarely or not used at all, most likely because of lack of experienced crew. Those radar and satellites were used by NATO in first place, not Georgia. Georgians were mostly relying on UAVs and maps. Georgian T-72Sim presense in SO was rendered totaly useless because of lacking tactics and missing collaboration between tanks, infantry and surveilance. Desorientation and fear of Russian aircraft or rumors of it, made most of them crews abandon their vehicles during retreat. Georgian Su-25 made maybe a handfull air sorties before Russians bombardet the runways to prevent further takeoffs, also rendering them completly useless. Communications ? Russians managed to break down communications very early and most of the commands from Georgian side were made via open traffic cell phones, which the Russian side was able to intercept without much effort.

    Those radar pictures and NATO satelite pictures didn't do anything but provide NATO with information. That is self explanatory given the fact that Georgians didn't manouvre accordingly to Russian movement. They only took positions that were pre-planned on a map and tried to hold them ....

    Georgia have qualitative and quantitative superiority against Russian units[/b]

    Quality was absolutly not on our side. That is utter BS. Our troops were neither trained adequately for urban warfare, nor for combined military operations to begin with. Not to talk about total lack of combat experience. There was also no basic combat awareness at all. You just have to watch those plenty of clips out there. Entire battalions hang around carelessly like sitting ducks on open field and streets. They calmly walked around in open streets without expecting any ambush from remaining Ossetian forces and when they got ambushed or there were explosions around, they didn't even react adequately. There was a case where a Georgian squad walked streight into a small Russian BMP column thinking those were Georgians and they got all killed.

    flamming_python wrote:
    numerical advantige

    Russians didn't need numerical advantige. Quality and experience was solely on their side.

    They were trained by the US, by the Israelis, had some experienced officers and professionals
    who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan
    , and by many reports it still had some such Israeli specialists leading and guiding it during the attack.

    I take that claim of Israelis guiding attacks as just another tale to discredit them and try to show everyone how they failed and how weak they are etc. I haven't heard of any such thing from Georgians themselves. There were a lot of Israeli specialist, advisors etc deployed there, but they disappeared when the war started as quickly as they came for the outragous summs we payed them ....

    The TAE program of US provided anything but limited basic infantry combat training for peacekeeping missions. Georgians did mostly patrols in Iraq, Afghanistan. Only force that was involved in combat situations was SOF, part of rapid response forces in Afghanistan.

    Yes Israelis provided training, but those were either limited or unfinished. I've once read a report from one of those israeli specialists you mentioned and he said he knew GAF was aboout to be send into war just hours before it started and they were anything but ready to fight. Also US instructors said the exact same thing. It's just a fact. They were not prepared and trained for a full scale combined military operation, because that's not what they were training them in. Most of the manouvres I saw left me always wondering how they think they gonna beat anyone with such utopia like scenarios. A blind man without having ever heard of war would have seen that. They had no chance.

    Russia was only able to send forces through just one tunnel, that the Georgians had every opportunity to interdict but failed to do so.

    Only action Georgians did there was a failed attempt to saboutage the tunnel. I have no idea till today why exactly they failed, but the team that was responsible was charged later and I don't know what happened to them next. I once read that there were already charges set up in some parts of the tunnel. But what I guess is that Russians had the tunnel already secured and the Georgian team was forced to withdraw simply.

    A bombing run also failed.

    Georgian Israeli-upgraded T-72 variants.

    as I've already mentioned above, that neither made a big difference, nor did the Georgian tank presence play any decicive role in that conflict. It's only role was sadly reduced to taking the most unnecesarry and humiliating losses.

    although Georgia had a good amount of transport and combat helicopters itself.


    which also didn't realy play a role in that conflict. But the Mi-24s were used to attack Ossetian positions.

    Artillery? Once again Russia didn't have much on hand in Ossetia; Georgia on the other hand had all the heights it commanded before the war, and the heights it seized after the war; it could have placed however many D-30s it wished on them, and in fact it placed a fair few but didn't use them effectively against the Russian forces.

    What again proves how badly organized the operation was and I also doubt artillery had sufficient intelligence on anything. Most engagements were up close when some field guns were shooting at the column and those were quickly taken out by shells, arty or airs strike. Even the Pion batteries were deployed and they shot more than 200 rounds in total, but none of them actualy hit anything. At least there is no confirmation from Russian side.

    a naval battle occured where Georgia was extremely outclassed/gunned

    I have no friggin clue why they even considered to send out those vessels. It was suicide from start. But I've also read suggestions that those had Iglas/Groms on board to attack any Russian aircraft in sight. But even if that was true, it was still a totaly retarded idea that left an entire crew dead.

    And the later, air-power, was significant admitedly; Russia had a superiority in fighters, recon aircraft, tactical bombers and all those kept the Georgian UAVs and helicopter fleet grounded, and gave problems to the Georgian Su-25s too.
    But then again, this fighting was going on over the Georgia side of the Caucasus mountains; thus it was Georgian air-defenses which posed a threat, and these were perfectly modern - Buk-M1s crewed by Ukrainian crews among them.

    Russians really like to downplay the role of their airforce. The Russian airforce took out most of Georgia's communication and satelite stations resulting into the GAF partialy communicating via cell phones which were easily intercepted. Some of the air defence was also taken out by airforce afaik and the Georgian retreat was a slaughterhouse. They basicaly caused half or more of the casualties. A number of APCs, tanks and trucks were destroyed on the way. Their psychological impact was pretty much the main reason why so much equipment was abandoned and left behind. You say Georgian tanks were superior, but Georgia had a good portion of it's tanks left in the bases because they still needed repairs. Ukraine shipped mostly tanks that had either a broken engine or other malfunctions. That was the deal. Georgia payed much less but had to fix them itself.

    Having said that all, you still can't imagine in what bad shape they were. The few dozen experts and special forces couldn't make up for the entire army, that didn't work.

    zg18
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  zg18 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:50 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Stupidity strikes again.

    Yeah it strikes pretty hard.

    The only tupidity here is to take a redicilously insigfnificant confrontation in order to prove the effectiveness of an army.

    So far the Russian army hasn't really proven itself against a tougher opponent than Chechen and Mujahedeen insurgents. Ukraine didn't even put up a fight on Crimea.

    It`s all relative , numbers are not everything or even weapons , i will put my hands in fire and say Georgian army in 2008 is superior to today`s UA army , even Chechens were superior in their prime day.

    Ukraine armed forces are shamble of shambles of once mighty Soviet battle group eroded by 23 years of insufficient financing and state neglect if not outright corruption. It is barely an army , they can barely muster 30.000 troops for E. Ukraine which is pathetic by every measure.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:09 am

    ..


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:21 am; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:09 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Russians really like to downplay the role of their airforce. The Russian airforce took out most of Georgia's communication and satelite stations resulting into the GAF partialy communicating via cell phones which were easily intercepted. Some of the air defence was also taken out by airforce afaik and the Georgian retreat was a slaughterhouse. They basicaly caused half or more of the casualties. A number of APCs, tanks and trucks were destroyed on the way. Their psychological impact was pretty much the main reason why so much equipment was abandoned and left behind. You say Georgian tanks were superior, but Georgia had a good portion of it's tanks left in the bases because they still needed repairs. Ukraine shipped mostly tanks that had either a broken engine or other malfunctions. That was the deal. Georgia payed much less but had to fix them itself..

    All i see is excuses and more excuses for Georgia doing badly. Instead of recognizing Russian army capabilities ,they resort to tons
    of excuses ,when in reality Georgia air defenses ,logistics ,training and tactics where all provided by NATO.
    Let me tell you ,that one of the things that totally blinded Georgian air defenses were Russian electronic Countermeasures.
    According to Russian pilots they were very impressed with the performance of SU-34 in Georgia and worked as it was intended.
    Also Iskander missiles according with Russia helped in a big way to Rout Georgians forces..  

    Without all respect dude ,I do not understand how you were expecting to win , Russia is a world super power and it have the capabilities
    to defeat US army and or israel ,rated by many above any others and this is in a conventional war ,not mentioning Nukes at all. As i told before.. if you want to see a REAL WAR , between Russia and NATO look no further than the Syrian proxy war. NATO armed 100,000 Rebels
    and trained lots of them and gave them weapons , logistics ,satelite encrypted communications , drones ,Stinger missiles ,TOW missiles ,
    professional NATO sniper rifles ,NATO artillery.. you name it..THere was also NATO special forces inside Syria you can youtube videos ,fighting along side the Rebels. Only thing Rebels didn't got was combat jets and navy and still they lost.  Laughing 

    Russia defeated NATO criminal war in Syria . And made US and its allies to think TWICE before bombing Syria. I assure you ,had Russia not been arming Syria ,NATO will have declared long time ago a no fly zone. NATO had the advantage in man power big time of having ISRAEL + jordan + TUrkey right next to Syrian Borders smuggling Rebels with NATO weapons inside.and could have been backed easily by NATO airforces and Navies.

    US and  NATO is seriously Overrated dude and your Georgia losing to Russia easily should be no surprise. It will have been no different if it was Turkey or France or UK or israel or even US ,if they choose to fight on Russia territory that is . , albeit will have not been as quick the war for sure. Russia have the biggest missile forces in the world and the most dynamic and mobile army too .They have not been wasting their bombs in middle east wars , and if any US or Ally go into a fight against Russia invading Crimea or Russia mainland,the result will be not in NATO favor.


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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:18 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    TheGeorgian wrote:
    So far the Russian army hasn't really proven itself against a tougher opponent than Chechen and Mujahedeen insurgents. Ukraine didn't even put up a fight on Crimea.


    Ohh yes, because russia makes only war to "proof its capability".

    Like USA always aims for fair opponents with good military like Iraq,Serbia,Lybia,Afghanistan and uses its meatgrinder dogs called NATO, how stronkkkk from USA to fight always such mighty opponents.


    Maybe you should keep your head out of some filthy rears and come back to reality and constructive conversations rather than throwing ape shit around.

    Hey Werewolf, just ignore him...it's obvious this guy is delusional "The Russian military has never proven itself against a worthy opponent" lmao is he serious?!?! It's like he never heard of the Russian military victories over Hitler and the fascist axis of WW2, Napoleon, the Central Axis of WW1, the Ottoman Empire, or that the Russian military successfully held off the British, French and Ottoman Empire simultaneously in the Crimean War, and handed defeats towards the U.S. military in proxy wars in Korea and Vietnam. If the Russian military hasn't proven itself in war, than no other countries military deserves to be considered "proven".

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  Regular on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:34 am

    Only thing that really sucked in 888 war was Russian Airforce. 58th army lacked newer equipment, their readiness wasn't close to prime armies in Russia, but they showed themselves adequately.

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    Re: Russia vs US Military and Economy and this forum isn't fair...

    Post  TheGeorgian on Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:45 am

    .........


    Last edited by TheGeorgian on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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