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    Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

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    Zivo
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Zivo on Mon May 30, 2016 8:51 pm

    Good find KoTeMoRe

    He was interesting to listen too.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon May 30, 2016 9:00 pm

    Yeah Karl is a born pedagogue. Explains a lot of things simply and swiftly.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:34 am

    AEK-971:

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:30 pm

    Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

    Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

    10/10 Arctic Fox!

    Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:12 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

    Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

    10/10 Arctic Fox!

    Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

    Thank you Kotemore,
    you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:20 pm

    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

    Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

    10/10 Arctic Fox!

    Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

    Thank you Kotemore,
    you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

    "Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:47 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

    Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

    10/10 Arctic Fox!

    Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

    Thank you Kotemore,
    you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

    "Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.


    It just does not have the lobby, the name nor the reputation to shine with.

    What is the difference between AEK's (A545)2009 and pre 2009 (AEK-971)?

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:22 pm

    i wonder why we don't see more AEK's and AN's in service with spetsnaz units, they even use some western rifles like HK416/417, but you rarely see some video or pictures of one of these two russian wonders being used.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:29 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

    Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

    10/10 Arctic Fox!

    Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

    Thank you Kotemore,
    you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

    "Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.


    It just does not have the lobby, the name nor the reputation to shine with.

    What is the difference between AEK's (A545)2009 and pre 2009 (AEK-971)?


    Guide for BARS system. Controls (previously it was a shortened AK style lever). Muzzle brake/device. Internals were a bit more "Soviet" the counter-balancing guiderod was thicker and non-integrated like the new one. Furniture was simple bakelite. Proprietary Folding mechanism. Roughly around 2006 there was a product improvement. Detachable/Drop in fire controls and trigger, integrated BARS, Black "polymer furniture. N-rail standard, guide changed, but still worked on a AK stamped receiver. And then A545, roughly the same rifle (although there was a slight redesign of the housing of bolt action) but with H&K legacy furniture, dioptre sight, Hinged Polymer lower receiver for the firecontrols and trigger. Rails (although they're not integral, but bolted on like the FNC). New Muzzle Brake modification. New stampings for the upper and monolithing upper on the first A545 variant.

    Arctic_Fox wrote:i wonder why we don't see more AEK's and AN's in service with spetsnaz units, they even use some western rifles like HK416/417, but you rarely see some video or pictures of one of these two russian wonders being used.

    Hum...Availability. Even if you want them, the product just isn't there. The initial batch of rifles is in very bad shape by now (we're talking 1996/1999 rifles seen in the infamous dump fire video in Chechnya), and then no one wanted to buy them. Rumour is that about 200 were bought for FSB in 2007 and some were bought by some MVD outlets but no foreign sales.

    As for the AN...people just didn't liked the gun once in service, the manufacturing wasn't brilliant initially and the system has got to move on another level. But again with the AK system being dumb-solid pretty much clears the floor from a soldier perspective. And then you have Izhmash (lobby), which produces also the AN.

    But the reason is this, the AK74, despite many of its shortcomings is one hell of a rifle. And as now you can adapt it through external modifications to shoot at 80% of the AEK or 70% of the AN it still is plenty enough for the its purpose. Which is shooting assholes in the face.

    Actually this is an intermediate rifle...(02 151) Rifle N° 151 Year 2002.
    This is what the early model receiver looked like



    Here (98 114) Rifle 114 Year 1998.

    And finally a 2009 variant prepared for Ratnik entry.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:10 am



    RPK(D)-400 and RPK(D)-400 dual.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:52 pm

    Not really relevant but...

    https://www.rt.com/usa/346204-made-usa-kalashnikov-weapons/

    US Special Operations Command is seeking domestic producers of old Soviet weapons, including the iconic AK-47 assault rifle. Supplying such weapons to friendly groups may sometimes be better than sending NATO standard arms.

    A solicitation to purchase ‘Made in USA’ weapons was placed by SOCom last month. In addition to Kalashnikov AK-47s, the Pentagon wants to explore making domestic purchases of Dragunuv sniper rifles, Kalashnikov light machine guns and heavy machine guns such as the DShK and the KPV.

    Some of the models mentioned in the notice are pretty old. The AK-47 has been in service since 1949, while the DShK came even earlier, in 1938.

    The market research request designates the Soviet arms as “non-standard weapons.” Lt. Cmdr. Matt Allen, a spokesman for the command, said the solicitation was a starting point and not a bidding process.

    "This will help us explore what capacity and capability there is within the USindustrial base," he told the Tampa Bay Times. "After that, we will better understand what could be provided, which missions they may be appropriate to support and to which approved partners they could be beneficial."

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:06 pm

    "Kalashnikov" choice

    Automatic "Warriors" will choose by year's end
    Close to completing the advanced testing machine AK-12, which, together with another product of the concern "Kalashnikov" - the AK-15 and upgraded AEK-971 of the plant. Degtyareva can be used as a base of small arms in battle gear "Warrior". This was announced by the head of state corporation "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov.

    According to him, after the inspection machines will pass on trial operation in troops. And only by its results in the Defense Ministry will decide which product to adopt the "hope that the decision will be made in the current year", - quotes "Interfax" the words Chemezov.

    Recall that he "Warrior" has massively supplied to military units. According to the Commander of the Land Forces Oleg Salyukova, last year it received about 80 thousand. Soldiers and officers. But with a small arsenal of the "warrior" clarity is still no. Please recommend successfully passed state tests, and tested in the army sniper rifle SVD-M and the automatic grenade launcher AGS-30. As well as two versions of the upgraded machine gun "Pecheneg" - single and 6P69 6P41M for special forces.

    According to the Central Research Institute of precision engineering composed 6P69 device includes a low-noise shooting and rails for the installation of optical sights and night. 6P41M version compared to the base "Pechenegs" also received the bar for the sights, and more - adjustable in length, change the position of the bipod.

    As for the base machine for "Warrior", after much hesitation, customers seem to have stopped on the Izhevsk AK-12 caliber 5.45 mm. Among its advantages, experts called the new trigger mechanism that allows to recharge the machine with one hand.

    But Kovrov AEK-971 has a balanced automation, reducing the knock of the weapon. But crucial to the dispute of the two machines can be not only their technical characteristics. In case certain economic factors intervene. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov has said that the priority of the AK-12 mainly consists in its price characteristics. Here he compares favorably with AEK-971 they Degtyareva plant. Borisov previously mentioned, the new "Kalashnikov" agency cost just a quarter more expensive than the regular AK. A machine designed to Kovrov, due to the complexity of the design, deployment, its serial production and modernization of the plant will cost considerably more expensive.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:12 pm

    franco wrote:"Kalashnikov" choice

    Automatic "Warriors" will choose by year's end
    Close to completing the advanced testing machine AK-12, which, together with another product of the concern "Kalashnikov" - the AK-15 and upgraded AEK-971 of the plant. Degtyareva can be used as a base of small arms in battle gear "Warrior". This was announced by the head of state corporation "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov.

    According to him, after the inspection machines will pass on trial operation in troops. And only by its results in the Defense Ministry will decide which product to adopt the "hope that the decision will be made in the current year", - quotes "Interfax" the words Chemezov.

    Recall that he "Warrior" has massively supplied to military units. According to the Commander of the Land Forces Oleg Salyukova, last year it received about 80 thousand. Soldiers and officers. But with a small arsenal of the "warrior" clarity is still no. Please recommend successfully passed state tests, and tested in the army sniper rifle SVD-M and the automatic grenade launcher AGS-30. As well as two versions of the upgraded machine gun "Pecheneg" - single and 6P69 6P41M for special forces.

    According to the Central Research Institute of precision engineering composed 6P69 device includes a low-noise shooting and rails for the installation of optical sights and night. 6P41M version compared to the base "Pechenegs" also received the bar for the sights, and more - adjustable in length, change the position of the bipod.

    As for the base machine for "Warrior", after much hesitation, customers seem to have stopped on the Izhevsk AK-12 caliber 5.45 mm. Among its advantages, experts called the new trigger mechanism that allows to recharge the machine with one hand.

    But Kovrov AEK-971 has a balanced automation, reducing the knock of the weapon. But crucial to the dispute of the two machines can be not only their technical characteristics. In case certain economic factors intervene. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov has said that the priority of the AK-12 mainly consists in its price characteristics. Here he compares favorably with AEK-971 they Degtyareva plant. Borisov previously mentioned, the new "Kalashnikov" agency cost just a quarter more expensive than the regular AK. A machine designed to Kovrov, due to the complexity of the design, deployment, its serial production and modernization of the plant will cost considerably more expensive.

    AK-15 has never been inducted in Ratnik (it's a special gun, with at least three design choices that prohibit military use). Price replacement for AK74M is 300 USD, lower bid fr Izhmash has been 600/650 USD. A545 pricing is roughly at 700USD, they can be squeezed to 600 as well since they got the Pecheneg contract. Then there's the statement from Izhmash boss that the price for the AK-12 will be 1000 USD both for internal market and export. Anyway. Lots of half truths in there. More complex the A545? It has more or less same tolerances than AK74...while AK12 is far more tight and has many "blind spots" like the reversible doglegged charging handle on the rod that is grooved for lighter weight.

    We'll see.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:37 pm

    A545 at 2:26


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:47 pm

    Monolithic Sighting unit. Yesssssss! Ok we can finally say the AK 12 is dead in the water as far as the zero-holding is concerned.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Zivo on Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:02 am

    Trying to find out more about this version of the A545. Supposedly it is more standardized for Army acceptance, utilizing components from this version of the AK-12.

    I really hope this image is real, because it is probably my favorite modification of the A545




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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:24 am

    Zivo wrote:Trying to find out more about this version of the A545. Supposedly it is more standardized for Army acceptance, utilizing components from this version of the AK-12.

    I really hope this image is real, because it is probably my favorite modification of the A545




    It's a projection (you can see they couldn't photoshop out the rails for the retractable stock) could be done but would need a couple of real world alterations.

    Like for instance the rear serration that keeps the bolt and bolt carrier in the receiver would be locked on a higher position to allow for the folding stock. The retractable rails taken out, the grip is not interesting and the muzzle brake is also not needed (the original and BARS help way more).

    On the plus side, drop mag system is ok and folding stick is indeed preferable IMO.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Zivo on Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:29 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Trying to find out more about this version of the A545. Supposedly it is more standardized for Army acceptance, utilizing components from this version of the AK-12.

    I really hope this image is real, because it is probably my favorite modification of the A545




    It's a projection (you can see they couldn't photoshop out the rails for the retractable stock) could be done but would need a couple of real world alterations.

    Like for instance the rear serration that keeps the bolt and bolt carrier in the receiver would be locked on a higher position to allow for the folding stock. The retractable rails taken out, the grip is not interesting and the muzzle brake  is also not needed (the original and BARS help way more).

    On the plus side, drop mag system is ok and folding stick is indeed preferable IMO.

    Oh well.

    I wonder why the A545 didn't use standard AK parts when possible. I always thought it would have been more preferable.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:40 am

    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Trying to find out more about this version of the A545. Supposedly it is more standardized for Army acceptance, utilizing components from this version of the AK-12.

    I really hope this image is real, because it is probably my favorite modification of the A545




    It's a projection (you can see they couldn't photoshop out the rails for the retractable stock) could be done but would need a couple of real world alterations.

    Like for instance the rear serration that keeps the bolt and bolt carrier in the receiver would be locked on a higher position to allow for the folding stock. The retractable rails taken out, the grip is not interesting and the muzzle brake  is also not needed (the original and BARS help way more).

    On the plus side, drop mag system is ok and folding stick is indeed preferable IMO.

    Oh well.

    I wonder why the A545 didn't use standard AK parts when possible. I always thought it would have been more preferable.


    Because the A545 is built by a different plant. ;-). IMO the basic A545 or a "normalized" version of it is really doable but thi rifle has so many nice features like the QD sling points, that frankly they should pick it up. Now I also know that the A545 has been messed up to look more classical.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:20 am

    The rear iron sight and horizontal grooves on the A545 make it look like an HK knockoff in my opinion.

    I personally think the Ak12 just looks more practical and has less of a gimmick design.

    The balanced recoil mechanism should be used on LMGs and GPMGS but not assault rifles... single shot is accurate enough without balanced recoil mechanism, but with close range full auto you want some bullet spread to increase hit probability.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:The rear iron sight and horizontal grooves on the A545 make it look like an HK knockoff in my opinion.

    I personally think the Ak12 just looks more practical and has less of a gimmick design.

    The balanced recoil mechanism should be used on LMGs and GPMGS but not assault rifles... single shot is accurate enough without balanced recoil mechanism, but with close range full auto you want some bullet spread to increase hit probability.

    From a design point of view the AK-12 has many small flaws (removable less solid iron sight) uses stampings that the AEK used 10 years ago and serrations that the AEK (and RK 95) used 20 years ago. The sight on AEK is more solid as it is one pieced and self protected from the virtue of being a monolithic piece with the upper reciever. It is an upper/lower gun pretty much as 90% of modern military rifles.

    The AK-12 is really a hot mess when it comes to practicality.

    But actually 90% of the rifle is how it shoots and how long. The rest isn't a problem.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:43 pm


    Iron sight is definitely where AK-12 falls short. One on A545 seems much better.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:44 am

    Why would you want to remove the iron sights?

    That is like saying an M16 us crap because you can't remove the trigger...

    The ability to change sides for the cocking handle is hugely important in my opinion and something the A545 lacks... and the ambidextrous controls are also a huge plus.

    I have never been in real armed combat but when hunting I often switch shoulders depending upon the local conditions and situation... having all the controls on both sides makes things easier.


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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:51 am

    GarryB wrote:Why would you want to remove the iron sights?

    That is like saying an M16 us crap because you can't remove the trigger...

    The ability to change sides for the cocking handle is hugely important in my opinion and something the A545 lacks... and the ambidextrous controls are also a huge plus.

    I have never been in real armed combat but when hunting I often switch shoulders depending upon the local conditions and situation... having all the controls on both sides makes things easier.

    Wat?

    The AK-12 has a removable non permanent Iron sight, it is mounted on a rail. The A545 exists in a run around configuration, it was rejected on the ground that...it wasn't submitted in due time (unlike the current AK-12, which wasn't submitted at all within the deadline). The ability to change sides is great, IF the mechanism is correctly sealed. Furthermore as said before the design solution for the AK-12's charging handle and gas piston is really iffy, with overheating on the weak parts of the new piston. Also the coking handle has been re-mediated in the A545 by proposing a hop open system on the receiver...like the Western guns. This system in the AK isn't satifactory yet. Instead of having to swap obturators for a ambidextrous rifle, they have tested a bolt release button on both sides.

    Also the AEK was the first Soviet rifle to have ambi controls. Nothing new there. I understand you like the AK-12 for some reason, but you have to face it, the rifle is a hot mess and they need to get their act together, either go utilitarian like Cz either go sleek and take a page from SiG. So far the rifle uses old style stamping, and uneven quality in parts. Barrels are said to be outstanding, but I've seen the wear on furniture being abysmal for a new prod rifle trying to win a military contract for a top flight military.

    Simply put, CK needs to do more before getting paid, not after.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:51 am

    The AK-12 has a removable non permanent Iron sight, it is mounted on a rail.

    Well I would count that as a fault for a standard infantry rifle... it is just something they can lose... and why would you ever take it off?

    For a special forces rifle that can be adapted to different calibres being able to change the iron sights could be useful for different calibres.

    I understand you like the AK-12 for some reason, but you have to face it, the rifle is a hot mess and they need to get their act together,

    I like it because it took the AK-74... which I also like by the way, and they went through all the problems and issues... real and otherwise, and addressed pretty much all of them and even added a few interesting extras like the ability to fire NATO standard rifle grenades.

    It is the T-90AM of tanks, the Su-35S of Flankers... what is not to like...

    The AEK seems rather different but for no obvious advantage other than it is different.

    The main advantage it brings is a balanced recoil mechanism and that is only really important in full auto fire... which in my opinion should only be used at short range and at fleeting targets... where precision and tight groups make no sense... a spray improves hit probability.

    If a balanced recoil mechanism was so critical then basing the AK12 on the AK-107 instead of the AK-74M is the obvious solution.


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