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    Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

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    Austin
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:58 am

    Found this comment on AK-200 on this blog

    http://www.gunblog.com/ak-200-rifle-the-next-generation-ak/

    Instead of an old gas piston (which is only now being planned for adoption by US army, after AK’s 60 year in production) – AK-200 will feature new “balanced action” mechanics. It used a counter-mass to compensate the recoil impulse, generated by massive bolt group, slamming against the receiver in its rearmost and forward most position during the reloading cycle. The counter-mass is linked with second gas piston and moves in opposite direction to bolt group. Synchronization is achieved using a simple rack and pinion system. In this system, only the impulse of the fired cartridge is transferred to the receiver, and through the buttstock to the shoulder of the shooter. The impulses of the heavy and fast-moving bolt group are compensated by the counter-mass, and do not affect the shooting, unlike the AK where the moving bolt group produces a lot of additional recoil and vibration.
    Improvement adds about 600 grams in weight.
    New cartridge will most probably be 6.5 Grendel.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:38 am

    Just some basic question , I was watching some video found on Izhmash website they have some good collection and I was wondering why did Russian choose 5.45x39 bullet round compared to NATO 5.56x45 ?

    The 5.56mm round was developed from the .222 hunting round and was adopted by the US unofficially for use in a light carbine rifle that was originally intended for security personal at airfields in Vietnam.

    When the locals saw how light the rifle was they ordered some and when the US forces saw how effective the light high velocity round was at close range they wanted them too.

    The 5.45mm round was specifically designed to offer the benefits of light high velocity rounds (low recoil, flat trajectory that is more forgiving of range guessing errors, lighter ammo so more rounds could be carried per kg of ammo.)
    The 5.45 further adds the projectile design which is long and slim and of excellent aerodynamic shape unlike the short stubby 5.56mm round.
    The added benefit of the 5.45mm round is that being hollow tipped the round is very rear heavy and it tumbles pretty much on impact were as most other bullets will penetrate up to 10cm of flesh before they even start to tumble.

    The light bullets are easily deflected but the 5.56mm relies on high velocity to fragment as it tumbles.

    Most hunters will tell you that light fast bullets often exhibit spectacular performance on light game but on larger animals they are less impressive because often they lack projectile weight to penetrate thick hide or muscle to get to the vital organs.

    Light fast bullets can be quite inconsistent too... sometimes the target will look like it exploded and other times it was like it was hit with a .22lr.

    Relying on high velocity shorter barrel weapons like the M4 tend to make the latter more common than the former.

    Why did the Soviets adopt the 5.45?

    Because they developed it especially to replace the 7.62 x 39mm.

    It is like asking why they adopted the T-90... there was a competition with competing designs and the one that fit their needs best won.

    I believe most of the bullet the world over used in assult rifle are standard NATO rounds , what is the advantage and disadvantage of 5.45x39 rounds over NATO standards ?

    Unless it is coming out of a 20 inch barrel the 5.56mm round has mediocre terminal performance.

    The Russians already have the 5.45mm in full production and to rechamber all their rifles to 5.56mm would be a rather enormous step back.

    The funny thing is that western calibres always seem to be super calibres. The Soviet 12.7mm round is a 12.7 x 108mm round which is clearly larger than the 12.7 x 99mm browning mg calibre yet they are considered comparable. The 9 x 19mm on the other hand is considered to be vastly superior to the 9 x 18mm because it has higher velocity yet the 7.62 x 25mm has even higher velocity yet is not considered better than the 9 x 19mm. The 5.56 x 45mm is considered super accurate and superior to the 5.45 x 39mm but the 7.62 x 54mmR is not better than the 7.62 x 51mm.

    When the west round is superior it is because it is higher velocity or more accurate, except when the Soviet/Russian round is superior in velocity or comparable in accuracy and then they are equivalents.

    Most of the time the fact that the 5.45mm is every bit as good as the 5.56 in most respects and better in some is obscured by the fact that the 5.45mm clearly doesn't exist and Russia still uses AK-47s... so lets compare M4s with AK-47s. Rolling Eyes

    Second question how does SVD sniper rifle compared with NATO/US sniper rifle in range,performance and ruggedness ?

    With the right ammo the SVD would qualify as a NATO standard sniper rifle. It is designed for the 400-600m range, while western snipers seem to spend all their time trying to hit targets at much longer range. Of course the vast majority of SVDs are issued to grunts with a little extra training to use the weapon out to 400-600m.
    What the west would actually call snipers operate in special forces on special patrols and they might shoot out to 800m or so but that would not be that common depending on the terrain.

    Some Russian units need more accuracy than the SVD provides... much like western snipers might need more accuracy than an M21 provides and go for a bolt action. Currently their bolt action long range rifle options are expensive... SV-98, and Lobaevs custom made rifles would be their two best options in rifle calibres.

    Garry , I feel AK-200 will have a balanced recoil mechanism , I think they wont simply drop it when AK-101/102 series has it.

    Only the AK-107 and AK-108 have balanced recoil systems.

    The main purpose of the AK-100 series was to make AKs of the standard of the AK-74M available in 5.45, 5.56, and 7.62 x 39mm calibre in full length and shortened barrel carbine form... the 5.45mm equivelent of the AK-105 is the AK-74M, whereas the 101-104 are standard length and short length barrel versions in 5.56 and 7.62 x 39mm calibre. The AK-107 and AK-108 are 5.45 and 5.56 with recoil balancers to compete with similar AEK rifles.


    Garry what do you think about the INSAS rifle widely used in Indian Army and developed in India ?

    It looks good to me. Sensible layout. Of course I have never fired it so I can't say for sure, but it looks like a good rifle.

    Found this comment on AK-200 on this blog

    Well without a balanced recoil system it is really just an AK-74M with Picatinny rails fitted and a hinged top cover as fitted to the AKS-74U in the early 1980s so why would it take two years to get ready for trials this year?
    The only thing really new would be the double stack 60 round mag and that could be tested and fitted to existing rifles.

    The only thing I have a problem with is why would they adopt an American calibre cartridge?

    The 5.45 is already in widespread service and is an accurate and effective round. It is like all these super weapons trying to replace the M16... none of them had enough of a performance increase to warrant the cost of changing calibre and making a new weapon.
    The Russians are in the same boat, the Grendel, the 5.56, even the new Chinese round is not significantly superior to the 5.45mm round to warrant changing.

    Regarding NATOs current experience where the 5.56mm round lacks range against the Kalashnikovs... the Soviets didn't have that problem because their 5.45mm rifles outranged the 7.62 x 39mm rifles and their SVDs and PKMs gave them extra reach when needed.
    (note the Kalashnikovs they are talking about are the PKMs... so many experts forget what the K in PKM stands for).

    I rather doubt they will change calibre... it would just cost too much.

    If they are planning to change a calibre it would be the 7.62 x 54mmR with either a plastic cased round or a caseless round simply because it is old and heavy and the weapons that fire it would benefit most from lighter ammo. A 100 round belt including box and link weighs something like 4kgs, so reducing the weight by 75% while slightly improving bullet mass and velocity would make their MGs and rifles much more effective and make the ammo load lighter, or allow more ammo to be carried.
    The cost would be the real issue... as to whether it would be worth it.
    With plastic cased ammo over time money would be saved through cheaper materials, but caseless ammo would be expensive for a while and would probably require factory sealed magazines to be issued.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Hoof on Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:52 am

    [quote="GarryB"]
    If they are planning to change a calibre it would be the 7.62 x 54mmR with either a plastic cased round or a caseless round simply because it is old and heavy and the weapons that fire it would benefit most from lighter ammo. A 100 round belt including box and link weighs something like 4kgs, so reducing the weight by 75% while slightly improving bullet mass and velocity would make their MGs and rifles much more effective and make the ammo load lighter, or allow more ammo to be carried.
    The cost would be the real issue... as to whether it would be worth it.
    With plastic cased ammo over time money would be saved through cheaper materials, but caseless ammo would be expensive for a while and would probably require factory sealed magazines to be issued.

    Speaking of which... I think I gonna need to get me more Mosin Nagant ammo... Should i get a light ball or heavy ball... or perhaps i should just get a 440rd can of good 'ol surplus ? lol

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:06 am

    Thank You Garry for answering my queries and clearing my doubts ,this was a comprehensive reply.

    I recollect reading the longest sniper hit was achieved in Afghanistan against the Taliban where a Western ( dutch i think ) managed a hit at 2 Km , probably the mountainous terrain aids the range if he was taking shot from top.

    I wish i could try my hand on a AK ,well by law gun is forbidden for law abiding citizens angel

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:14 am

    Austin wrote:Thank You Garry for answering my queries and clearing my doubts ,this was a comprehensive reply.

    I recollect reading the longest sniper hit was achieved in Afghanistan against the Taliban where a Western ( dutch i think ) managed a hit at 2 Km , probably the mountainous terrain aids the range if he was taking shot from top.

    I wish i could try my hand on a AK ,well by law gun is forbidden for law abiding citizens angel
    ]

    If you were referring to the longest confirmed kill, it was done by a British guy.

    In fact, 4 men, 2 Canadian, 1 British, and 1 American, has shot and killed to the 2 km: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Hoof on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:49 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:
    Austin wrote:Thank You Garry for answering my queries and clearing my doubts ,this was a comprehensive reply.

    I recollect reading the longest sniper hit was achieved in Afghanistan against the Taliban where a Western ( dutch i think ) managed a hit at 2 Km , probably the mountainous terrain aids the range if he was taking shot from top.

    I wish i could try my hand on a AK ,well by law gun is forbidden for law abiding citizens angel
    ]

    If you were referring to the longest confirmed kill, it was done by a British guy.

    In fact, 4 men, 2 Canadian, 1 British, and 1 American, has shot and killed to the 2 km: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills


    best shot I made was at about 500m with my mosin nagant... just plain iron sights a target bit smaller than a cow = / at 500m with 7.62x54r adjustment is almost non existent...

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:43 pm

    Speaking of which... I think I gonna need to get me more Mosin Nagant ammo... Should i get a light ball or heavy ball... or perhaps i should just get a 440rd can of good 'ol surplus ? lol

    Depends on what range you shoot your targets at and what sort of targets you want to hit.

    Heavy ball is good for hitting larger animals or dropping smaller animals in their tracks. The lighter ball ammo tends to be better for longer range shots as it tends to get there faster with less bullet drop.

    I recollect reading the longest sniper hit was achieved in Afghanistan against the Taliban where a Western ( dutch i think ) managed a hit at 2 Km , probably the mountainous terrain aids the range if he was taking shot from top.

    I seem to remember reading about shots from 2.6km or so.

    The reason such long shots are possible is because of the visibility. On one side of a valley you can see very long distances and there is little tree cover or bush to hide behind.

    I think I have mentioned before that Soviet bases there in the 1980s tended to have a heavy weapon with range to match that long visibility range... weapons ranging from the AGS-17 30mm grenade launcher (1.7km) the ZU-23 (2-3km) SGP-9 (2-4km) and heavy machine guns like 12.7mm (2km) and 14.5mm (3km)... these of course being fired at groups and single targets though except for the single shot SPG-9 recoilless rifle mostly shots were taken in bursts to improve hit probability especially with HE ammo.

    best shot I made was at about 500m with my mosin nagant... just plain iron sights a target bit smaller than a cow = / at 500m with 7.62x54r adjustment is almost non existent...

    There is a youtube vid of some guy firing an 1891/30 rifle at targets at 900m and he hits the target more often than not... you should have a look for it.

    I have some 7.62 x 54mmR tracer ammo, but it is a bit dry to be shooting it at the moment... Smile

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Russian Spetsnaz on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:10 am

    I didn't know they still used the 47, I thought the standard issue model was the 74.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:59 am

    Sorry, was being sarcastic about the general ignorance in the west.

    Any Kalashnikov is an AK-47 in the west no matter what it is really.

    The AK-74M is the current standard general issue rifle with the actual AK-47 well out of service replaced a long time ago by the AKM and then the AKS-74M.

    The AS is also a general issue rifle that is fairly widely used though it is 9 x 39mm calibre and fires subsonic rounds.

    If you watch a Discovery channel program on guns however it will be an AK-47 that is tested against an M4 to prove the M16? is better than an AK.

    Largely to prove merican weapons are the best.

    Makes things confusing when we hear about the M4 being not so effective in Afghanistan at 800m... or even needing accurate shot placement at 400m to be effective.

    Reality is that the Soviets embraced the concept of Assault Rifle much more rapidly than the west did, having experience in 1916 with the Federov Avtomat and in WWII against the German equivelent.

    When the west adopted a high velocity light bullet round the Soviets dug up their pre WWII material and started developing their own rounds. It was believed high velocity could be the solution because it made the ammo lighter and easier to control in full auto and also reduced recoil. The faster flatter shooting round meant it was less of an issue if you made a mistake in estimating the range to the target.

    It was thought at the time the huge wound channels would be lethal much quicker than slower heavier projectiles, but most of the flesh and skin on a target is very elastic and is undamaged by the extra stretching.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  runaway on Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:29 pm

    "Garry what do you think about the INSAS rifle widely used in Indian Army and developed in India ?"

    You must be kidding! Its a homemade FAL, from the 1960`s. And i do not dislike indians, but their weapon capacity is very low. For example, their homemade 125mm tank ammo, must be fired from outside the T-90 while using a remote. The ammo is so bad its danger of exploding the wrong time and in the wrong way.

    But to the thread, i have had exprience with both AK-47 and M-16A1-A4, and HK G36, G3. The Ak-47 is a preffered weapon, although i belive the AK-74M is very similiar, apart from the ammo.

    What i have discussed and read, the 5.45 has the advantage over 5.56
    Its interesting the US is trying to take back the 7.62 51, and maybe start using the 6.8, which has the same punch but more accurate then the 7.62 39
    So what is the russian answer? Short combat distances and well protected soldiers is the issue.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:38 pm

    You must be kidding! Its a homemade FAL, from the 1960`s.

    If that is what it is then I like it.

    The FN FAL was a good solid rifle though there were many attempts to simply convert it into 5.56mm most were failures.

    I have an FAL, and an AK in 7.62 x 39mm calibre and find them both fairly easy to use, though the FAL is a bit heavier and I don't think it would be very controllable in burst fire, unlike the AK.

    If they have developed an FAL in 5.56mm then they managed to do what most of the British commonwealth failed to do... the Brits now use SA80s, the Aussies and Kiwis use Steyrs, did the Canadians use FN FALs? they now use use Canadian licence made M16s.

    Its interesting the US is trying to take back the 7.62 51, and maybe start using the 6.8, which has the same punch but more accurate then the 7.62 39
    So what is the russian answer? Short combat distances and well protected soldiers is the issue.

    I would suspect the soldiers issued with AS and VSS rifles in 9 x 39mm would be well capable of dealing with targets in vests, but the soldiers with the SVDS and Pechenegs could also deal to them too. AFAIK there have been no complaints about the 5.45mm in combat so far... armour piercing ammo is also available too.

    Also if your bullets don't kill the enemy your RPGs with HE warheads and 40mm grenades from under barrel launchers will do the trick.

    As far as I know the only experimental Soviet/Russian round was a 6.5x49mm round with a muzzle velocity of something like 1,400m/s... which suggests short barrel life or new barrel technology and new propellent or a very light bullet... the latter rather unlikely as the trend these days seems to be for projectiles to get heavier rather than lighter.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  runaway on Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:41 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]


    If Also if your bullets don't kill the enemy your RPGs with HE warheads and 40mm grenades from under barrel launchers will do the trick.

    Yes, the assault rifle is really for self defence, you win combat with your heavy weapons.

    And the FAL is a good weapon, a bit to heavy and clumsy. I have a G3 its very alike.
    But when we talk about ranges of 200m +, nowadays every Assault rifle have red dot sights. And with these sights all ranges above 200m is not practical to hit field targets.

    So the wiev that the AK series is not accurate enough is not right. Remember that war doesnt take place on the firing range.
    The only reason why Sweden dont use the AK-74 is purely political.

    The most important thing for a soldier is reliability however. And the AK is really in its own class there, the M-16 is a terrible weapon in that respect. The G3 is good and so is the FAL.

    Overall, i really cant belive Russia would change Assault rifles, since they have the best ones.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:58 am


    And the FAL is a good weapon, a bit to heavy and clumsy. I have a G3 its very alike.

    It is long, I am currently saving up to buy a suppressor for mine which will make it even longer and heavier, but it is a good solid powerful rifle... I suspect the G3 is pretty good too. The only trouble is current laws here require a stupid little short 7 round magazine be used with automatic centrefire rifles. They are too small physically and are a pain to use.

    But when we talk about ranges of 200m +, nowadays every Assault rifle have red dot sights. And with these sights all ranges above 200m is not practical to hit field targets.

    I agree, I think that while peep iron sights are good at extended ranges that the open Soviet style iron sights are better for shorter ranges. I think the best sighting solution for the new AK would be open sights for backup and short ranges in an emergency, but a low power scope for normal use with a magnifying scope for longer range and a night vision scope for night use too.

    It would look strange with a x2 scope as standard plus a x4 scope with no reticule that can be put in front of the standard scope for longer range use without having to rezero. In front of this a night vision scope could be mounted to make it night capable or it could be put in front of the original scope for a x2 mag night view. This is the sort of thing you can do with a picatinny rail system. For Spec Ops you could just fit a Thermal Sight with a fibre optic feed so the rifle can be pointed around corners without exposing your head.

    So the wiev that the AK series is not accurate enough is not right. Remember that war doesnt take place on the firing range.
    The only reason why Sweden dont use the AK-74 is purely political.

    The feedback I have heard from actual users is that the AK-74 is just as accurate as the AR. The criticisms directed at the 5.56 are mainly a lack of lethality because of a lack of velocity in shorter barrel weapons to make the bullet fragment inside the target. The 5.45mm tumbles on impact at any speed so barrel length is not so important for lethality, though in very short barrels like the AKS-74U accuracy becomes an issue. This has led to longer barrelled carbines being developed and issued in the AK-100 series.

    Overall, i really cant belive Russia would change Assault rifles, since they have the best ones.

    I agree. They are really in the same boat as most of the west, in that they need a weapon that has a performance of generationally better levels to warrant replacing existing types and that is just not an option at the moment... so all they are doing it upgrading existing types with picatinny rails.

    The difference is that this new AK if it does have a 60 round mag and a balanced recoil system is not as revolutionary as say the Steyr ACR with its flechette rounds, or a G11 with its caseless ammo, but it is certainly a huge step forward in terms of a conventional assault rifle.

    The other rifle I am interested in is the ADS which is a bullpup with forward ejection of cases so it is fully ambidextrous, and is able to fire ammunition designed to be used underwater... which makes it very interesting for Naval Infantry as well as all other forces as it combines a long barrel and good accuracy in a compact weapon that can be used left or right handed and as it uses standard 5.45mm ammo there is no reason why it couldn't use the new 60 round mags too. It has a built in 40mm under barrel grenade launcher and can be fitted with scopes and suppressors etc. I just wonder how it goes compared to the AK-200.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:19 am

    runaway wrote:
    You must be kidding! Its a homemade FAL, from the 1960`s. And i do not dislike indians, but their weapon capacity is very low.

    Yes it is possible that FAL must have infulenced in some way the INSAS design as IA has been operating it for 3 decades now , but its certainly not a home made FAL , it has its own vitrues and is built around NATO 5.45 rounds , uses modern materials and has proven its worth in combat , Oman even bought INSAS from India.

    For example, their homemade 125mm tank ammo, must be fired from outside the T-90 while using a remote. The ammo is so bad its danger of exploding the wrong time and in the wrong way.

    Yes the Indian Public Sector Manufacturer screwed the 125 mm ammo manufacturing and quality and hence it turned to be so bad that it would explode in the tank when it was fired.

    The entire lot of 60 -80 Thousand 125 mm rounds built by OFB was scrapped , Few Jawans did die when they were practising with OFB rounds when it exploded inside the tank

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:26 am

    Can some one tell me what is the distinguising feature of Sniper Rifle and say a assult rifle like AK-107 , why cant a good gun like AK-107 be a good sniper rifle with a good scope ?

    Why should there be a separate sniper rifle for general purpose use like SVD , why cant they make a assult rifle that double up as sniper when required and be as good as sniper.

    May be for special purpose extereme long range sniper rifle would make sense but for general purpose they can design a good assult rifle which is a good sniper rifle as well.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Hoof on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:33 am

    Austin wrote:Can some one tell me what is the distinguising feature of Sniper Rifle and say a assult rifle like AK-107 , why cant a good gun like AK-107 be a good sniper rifle with a good scope ?

    Why should there be a separate sniper rifle for general purpose use like SVD , why cant they make a assult rifle that double up as sniper when required and be as good as sniper.

    May be for special purpose extereme long range sniper rifle would make sense but for general purpose they can design a good assult rifle which is a good sniper rifle as well.

    well because at longer range, you gonna need more powerful round, because normal assault rifle round (lets say 5.45x39) going to lose its kinetic power more rapidly than larger round (like 7.62x54r)... also because assault rifle is not as accurate as a sniper rifle because of the shorter barrel and different requirements (ability to fire more rounds reliably vs. firing less rounds accurately) of course you can mount a sniper scope on AK if you need to, but its not what it was made for...

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:01 am

    Can some one identify these guns and scope ,found at mp.net

    Sniper
    Sniper Rifle
    Again some sniper

    The New Russian Army outfit looks cool Soldier with new outfit

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:06 am

    The photo with the Priest and the boy in it, the rifle in the Priests hands is this:

    OSV-96

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/rus/osv-96-e.html

    As you can see it folds in the middle to make it easier to carry around and is a 12.7 x 108mm calibre weapon.

    The weapon on the table next to the boy is the KSVK or sometimes called the SVN-98 and is a bullpup bolt action 12.7 x 108mm calibre rifle:

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/rus/ksvk-e.html

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/rus/svn9-e.html (experimental model).

    If you look carefully at the photo you posted the metal stub bar hanging down just in front of the trigger is actually the bolt to operate the mechanism.

    The second photo with the soldier holding the rifle, it is hard to say for sure but I think it might be a Lobaev rifle, look here and see what I mean:

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/rus/lobaevsvl-e.html
    Note it has a different muzzle brake but that is because the Lobaev SVL is in .408 Chey-tac calibre and this rifle might be a smaller less powerful round requiring a smaller muzzle brake and with a more conventional bipod design.

    The last weapon with the cute little girl is not actually a sniper rifle, it is an AS "Val" rifle in 9 x 39mm with a 20 round magazine and single and full auto capability, it is a suppressed weapon firing a subsonic very heavy round.

    http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/as-val-e.html

    The sniper equivelent of the Val is the Vintorez or VSS and it has a fixed wooden stock:

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/rus/vss-e.html

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:37 pm

    Thanks for that piece of information , your knowledge on rifles and weapons never cease to amaze me.

    I thought the one which the girl is holding is a plastic assultrifle Smile

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:47 am

    Here is nice article on Russian Spetsnaz Arms and Russian UAV , Garry will love this Smile

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  runaway on Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:10 pm

    Austin wrote:Here is nice article on Russian Spetsnaz Arms and Russian UAV , Garry will love this Smile

    Arms

    Great work Austin, can you dig up something about the tank production and development?

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:55 am

    Thanks Austin, but the article on Spetsnaz weapons didn't include any weapons that were new to me. Sad

    I was hoping they might mention the new ADS bullpup rifle designed to be used underwater with special underwater ammo and also above water with standard 5.45mm ammo. It looks really cool, yet there is little information available about it except on world guns ru.

    The UAV stuff was very interesting, though it has an error in that it shows a missile on a trailer and the caption says it is the Tu-300. The only problem is that the missile on the trailer is an SA-1 SAM that is almost certainly used as a target missile for air defence training and is not a Tu-300 at all.

    I also liked the section on new developments in making small arms ammo... it was very interesting. The multilayer plastic wrapping and loading in clips should make loading mags quicker and easier. They looked like 15 round stripper clips, which means two clips to a current mag and 4 for a 60 round mag. I think this is a good step forward both in the sense that storage time is greatly increased, but also hand loading time of magazines is greatly reduced. I remember loading 30 round mags for my AK when that was still legal and it did take a while. Loading ammo into stripper clips and then loading stripper clips into mags is not faster, but getting ammo in stripper clips and loading them into mags is fast and convenient... I was a bit worried about the thought of having to load 60 rounds into one mag but with 4 x 15 round stripper clips it should be quick and easy.
    I have a few photos of Soviet and Russian soldiers standing around a table with hundreds of rounds of loose 5.45mm ammo in a pile loading rounds into mags one round at a time, so this will change that for the better.

    The title of the section on small arms ammo was suggesting the direction of development but the article just mentioned improved ammo that had already been developed and also mentioned the above improved packaging and information on the automation of cartridge production and how small mobile systems can be used in reverse to recycle components safely.

    I was hoping they were going to talk about their future plans like replacing the 7.62 x 54mm round with a more modern round... perhaps now that they are producing ammo in sealed packets they could start making caseless ammo sealed in ready to use disposable ammo containers, or at the very least plastic cased ammo with new propellent and primer types to make it smaller and lighter but with the same or better performance.

    I guess I am being unfair as they have been through the same drought as the rest of the Russian MIC.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:56 am

    New Pics of AK-200



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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:08 am


    As for the climb and recoil problems, they stem from details
    in the design itself; correcting those would require structural
    improvements, at least as significant as in the AK 107/108 versions,
    where the recoil is weaker due to its more balanced automatic mechanism.
    Such changes would eventually require designers to generate a whole new
    design concept for the firearm, which is impossible in the current
    economic situation.

    He is contradicting himself... if they can produce the AK-107 and 108... which are basically AK-74Ms with balanced recoil mechanisms then why would a change to balanced recoil mechanisms require designers to generate a whole new design concept for the firearm?

    Surely if they can redesign the AK-74M into the AK-107 and 108 then they can redesign the AK-74M into an AK-200 which is basically an AK-74M with rails and a balanced recoil mechanism... if they can mass produce the AK-107 they can mass produce the AK-200.

    @Austin
    Interesting... the positioning of that rear iron sight suggests they are going for peep iron sights.
    It clearly retains the bayonet lug, which means the standard bayonet can be retained in service and the GP-30 under barrel grenade launcher, though perhaps they might adopt the GP-34 grenade launcher for this weapon.

    Most importantly look at the muzzle brake and where the gas port is it is barely 2cms!
    This means that it is very unlikely to have a traditional gas system as used on the standard AKs because gas tapped off that close to the muzzle would not give enough kick to operate the mechanism.
    This suggests it uses a balanced recoil mechanism.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles / Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:12 am

    The arrangement of the sights in this case is interesting... if that scope has no aiming reticle and is a night vision device the arrangement shown could be an attempt to use ironsights at night...

    The advantage of such a night vision device is that you can move it forward and fit a normal day scope behind it (removing or folding down the iron sights) so you zero in the day sight and then to shoot at night you attach the night sight in front and use the day sights reticule for aiming without having to zero the night sight as well. In the morning when the sun comes up you take off the night sight and use the standard optical sight again.

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