Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Share

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 488
    Points : 515
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Asf on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:42 pm

    Of course the US has kept Iraq cornered and sanctioned all these years and it bombed and invaded the country and now it supports civil war. Why? Iraq has only one way to pay its bills... to repair and replace things that are destroyed, to buy weapons to fight its internal enemies... oil.


    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?

    Hannibal Barca
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1219
    Points : 1241
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:56 pm

    Asf wrote:
    Of course the US has kept Iraq cornered and sanctioned all these years and it bombed and invaded the country and now it supports civil war. Why? Iraq has only one way to pay its bills... to repair and replace things that are destroyed, to buy weapons to fight its internal enemies... oil.


    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?

    United States are not anymore an industrial power. An increase in oil price will affect them but will affect much more their enemies who happen to be industrial powerhouses.
    Russia might get affected but in the same time happens a lousy dollar appreciation  so all in all oil prize is relative irrelevant for the US economy for some time now,
    a US economy which now relies more and more in financial engineering,  dollar status and economic terrorism.


    inverse of the ratio since 2011

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4467
    Points : 4658
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:32 pm

    Asf wrote:
    Yes, the Shia axis is too powerful and millions of Iraqi's have volunteered to fight ISIS, let's not forget that the secular Arab govt's such as Syria, Algeria, and Egypt have an ax-to-grind with the Wahhabi and Salafi terror brigades. Russia, China, the Shia dominant countries of Iraq and Iran, and the Secular Arab govt's of Syria, Egypt, and Algeria are too powerful of a combination for the degenerate Gulf Monarchies to handle!

    Shia seems loosing a battle after battle. Syria is bleeding, Egypt has it's own problems and isn't involved. Russia has no strings of ISIS to pull, not to mention China. Situation is quite bad for secular islamic countries... soon we can see the rise of islamic fundamental terrorists even in Europe, not to mention Caucasus and ex-Soviet Middle East countries

    I have no idea what your talking about. Most of Syria has been re-taken by Assad forces, the Shia forces such as Hezbollah defeated the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS most of the time when they engaged them even (Hezbollah has also defeated the Israeli IDF more than once in the past), Nasrallah and the Iranian govt. have stated that they are confident with all the progress they've made that they will eventually win the war in Syria. Egypt is definitely in the mix, Qatar that finances the FSA in Syria also finances the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Morsi's fatal mistake was that he tried to organize and invasion of Syria with the Egyptian army to save the terrorist rebels in Syria, in turn General (and now president) Sisi kicked Morsi out of power to prevent that and he immediately re-established diplomatic ties with Syria (which Morsi broke). You're probably not aware but General Nasser founded modern Egypt, and Egypt and Syria were once the same country under the Pan-Arab nationalist state, and unlike Sadat who was a neo-liberal, President Sisi is a bonafide Nasserist which makes him Pro-Syrian (as well as Pro-Russian). Iraq is in the same position as Syria was in the Autumn of 2011, when the Shia forces re-collect and re-organize then ISIS will start taking massive losses and start to be driven out of Iraq.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1967
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:09 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    Yes, the Shia axis is too powerful and millions of Iraqi's have volunteered to fight ISIS, let's not forget that the secular Arab govt's such as Syria, Algeria, and Egypt have an ax-to-grind with the Wahhabi and Salafi terror brigades. Russia, China, the Shia dominant countries of Iraq and Iran, and the Secular Arab govt's of Syria, Egypt, and Algeria are too powerful of a combination for the degenerate Gulf Monarchies to handle!

    Shia seems loosing a battle after battle. Syria is bleeding, Egypt has it's own problems and isn't involved. Russia has no strings of ISIS to pull, not to mention China. Situation is quite bad for secular islamic countries... soon we can see the rise of islamic fundamental terrorists even in Europe, not to mention Caucasus and ex-Soviet Middle East countries

    I have no idea what your talking about. Most of Syria has been re-taken by Assad forces, the Shia forces such as Hezbollah defeated the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS most of the time when they engaged them even (Hezbollah has also defeated the Israeli IDF more than once in the past), Nasrallah and the Iranian govt. have stated that they are confident with all the progress they've made that they will eventually win the war in Syria. Egypt is definitely in the mix, Qatar that finances the FSA in Syria also finances the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Morsi's fatal mistake was that he tried to organize and invasion of Syria with the Egyptian army to save the terrorist rebels in Syria, in turn General (and now president) Sisi kicked Morsi out of power to prevent that and he immediately re-established diplomatic ties with Syria (which Morsi broke). You're probably not aware but General Nasser founded modern Egypt, and Egypt and Syria were once the same country under the Pan-Arab nationalist state, and unlike Sadat who was a neo-liberal, President Sisi is a bonafide Nasserist which makes him Pro-Syrian (as well as Pro-Russian). Iraq is in the same position as Syria was in the Autumn of 2011, when the Shia forces re-collect and re-organize then ISIS will start taking massive losses and start to be driven out of Iraq.

    Thanks for replying.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:07 pm

    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?

    As long as the oil fields are secure and pumping (note US forces bypassed the towns in Iraq during the last invasion and went straight to the oilfields and protected them...

    Uncertainty increases the price of oil and speculation trading... but a damaged oil producing country needing to rebuild needs to pump oil at max capacity. Without that need to rebuild they can afford to reduce production and let the price per barrel climb a bit to get a better return.

    US companies might miss out on oil contracts but US companies will be competing for contracts to rebuild the country...

    There was a reason that Iran did very little to interfere with US attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan. Very simply Saddams Sunni regime was Irans greatest enemy in the region, while the Taleban were Saudi and Pakistani supported Sunni based too. Iran has benefitted from the US presence in the ME.

    Both countries are now rather friendlier to Iran because of their Shia majorities.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  medo on Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:18 pm





    In Iraq ISIS shot down Iraqi Mi-17 helicopter.

    Max Italy
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 16
    Points : 19
    Join date : 2014-06-29
    Age : 50
    Location : Veneto, Italy

    Sukhoi 25 or Sukhoi 24 ?

    Post  Max Italy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:41 pm

    I read two different versions of the some news... Shocked 

    Iraq air force already received secondhanded warplanes (thanks to great Russia! few words and lots of facts!)russia 
    bUT what kind of planes and how many of them?

    On RT NEWS I read about 10 SUKHOI SU24....

    On AL JAZEERA I read about 5 SUKHOI SU25...


    and...I'm not an expert of warplanes....in your opinion what is the best between the two kind of planes in order di attack ISIS troops?  attack

    arpakola
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1470
    Points : 1500
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 49
    Location : Athens

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  arpakola on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:44 pm


    Hannibal Barca
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1219
    Points : 1241
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:17 pm

    Max Italy wrote:I read two different versions of the some news... Shocked 

    Iraq air force already received secondhanded warplanes (thanks to great Russia! few words and lots of facts!)russia 
    bUT what kind of planes and how many of them?

    On RT NEWS I read about 10 SUKHOI SU24....

    On AL JAZEERA I read about 5 SUKHOI SU25...


    and...I'm not an expert of warplanes....in your opinion what is the best between the two kind of planes in order di attack ISIS troops?  attack

    The SU-24 is old school plane, currently under replace from fighter bomber planes like the SU-34 or the f35 that americants want to use as the replacement of Tornado which is SU-24's equivalent.
    Since ISIS don't have air force and they are basicaly light to middle armed rebels the principal plane in Russia's arsenal against them is currently SU-25 and the very modern SU-34

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4467
    Points : 4658
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:11 pm

    This Nitwit-Yahoo is some character, he's basically openly calling for the partition and Balkanization of Iraq:

    Israeli PM Netanyahu endorses Kurdish independence citing chaos in Iraq



    Citing the “collapse” of Iraq amid the ISIS insurgency and sectarian violence, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has endorsed the de-facto independence of Iraqi Kurds. Netanyahu has also called to support the “Kurdish aspiration for independence.”

    The hawkish Israeli leader said on Sunday that Kurds are “fighting people that has proved its political commitment, political moderation, and deserves political independence,” Reuters reported.

    Speaking to Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank, Netanyahu described the situation in Iraq and the Middle East in general as a “collapse,” due to strife between Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

    Amid the recent insurgency of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS/ISIL) militants, Kurds have seized the opportunity to bring a long-sought independent state of Kurdistan closer to reality. Kurdish Peshmerga armed forces have been guarding their provincial borders from ISIS, but also seized the contested Iraqi city of Kirkuk, proclaiming it part of their territory.

    Now, in an apparent clash against the international community's support of a united Iraq, the Israeli leader has called to back the de-facto independence of Kurds.

    “We should...support the Kurdish aspiration for independence,” Netanyahu was quoted as saying.

    http://rt.com/news/169252-netanyahu-kurds-independence-iraq/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3051
    Points : 3149
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  medo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:35 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:This Nitwit-Yahoo is some character, he's basically openly calling for the partition and Balkanization of Iraq:

    Israeli PM Netanyahu endorses Kurdish independence citing chaos in Iraq



    Citing the “collapse” of Iraq amid the ISIS insurgency and sectarian violence, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has endorsed the de-facto independence of Iraqi Kurds. Netanyahu has also called to support the “Kurdish aspiration for independence.”

    The hawkish Israeli leader said on Sunday that Kurds are “fighting people that has proved its political commitment, political moderation, and deserves political independence,” Reuters reported.

    Speaking to Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank, Netanyahu described the situation in Iraq and the Middle East in general as a “collapse,” due to strife between Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

    Amid the recent insurgency of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS/ISIL) militants, Kurds have seized the opportunity to bring a long-sought independent state of Kurdistan closer to reality. Kurdish Peshmerga armed forces have been guarding their provincial borders from ISIS, but also seized the contested Iraqi city of Kirkuk, proclaiming it part of their territory.

    Now, in an apparent clash against the international community's support of a united Iraq, the Israeli leader has called to back the de-facto independence of Kurds.

    “We should...support the Kurdish aspiration for independence,” Netanyahu was quoted as saying.

    http://rt.com/news/169252-netanyahu-kurds-independence-iraq/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    Like it or not, but this is reality and this is a future of Iraq. Shia have to defend their southern part Simeria, Kurds will form their Kurdistan from their territories in Iraq, Syria,Turkey and Iran and Sunni part of Kaliphat. Syria will also be divided in Kurdistan, Asiria and Sunni Kaliphat and than ISIS will also capture Jordan and most probably throw Saud dynasty in KSA. Anyway, this process will form natural and stable states in ME, because today states in today borders are not natural and are the remain from colonial division.

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4467
    Points : 4658
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:59 pm

    medo wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:This Nitwit-Yahoo is some character, he's basically openly calling for the partition and Balkanization of Iraq:

    Israeli PM Netanyahu endorses Kurdish independence citing chaos in Iraq



    Citing the “collapse” of Iraq amid the ISIS insurgency and sectarian violence, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has endorsed the de-facto independence of Iraqi Kurds. Netanyahu has also called to support the “Kurdish aspiration for independence.”

    The hawkish Israeli leader said on Sunday that Kurds are “fighting people that has proved its political commitment, political moderation, and deserves political independence,” Reuters reported.

    Speaking to Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank, Netanyahu described the situation in Iraq and the Middle East in general as a “collapse,” due to strife between Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

    Amid the recent insurgency of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS/ISIL) militants, Kurds have seized the opportunity to bring a long-sought independent state of Kurdistan closer to reality. Kurdish Peshmerga armed forces have been guarding their provincial borders from ISIS, but also seized the contested Iraqi city of Kirkuk, proclaiming it part of their territory.

    Now, in an apparent clash against the international community's support of a united Iraq, the Israeli leader has called to back the de-facto independence of Kurds.

    “We should...support the Kurdish aspiration for independence,” Netanyahu was quoted as saying.

    http://rt.com/news/169252-netanyahu-kurds-independence-iraq/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    Like it or not, but this is reality and this is a future of Iraq. Shia have to defend their southern part Simeria, Kurds will form their Kurdistan from their territories in Iraq, Syria,Turkey and Iran and Sunni part of Kaliphat. Syria will also be divided in Kurdistan, Asiria and Sunni Kaliphat and than ISIS will also capture Jordan and most probably throw Saud dynasty in KSA. Anyway, this process will form natural and stable states in ME, because today states in today borders are not natural and are the remain from colonial division.

    ...That's a self-fulling prophecy, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar are promoting terrorism through out the Middle East, all it would take to stop this madness is to have FOAB's and some Iskanders level the House of Saud to send a message... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    Behrooz
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 26
    Points : 28
    Join date : 2014-06-14

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Behrooz on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:36 pm

    I agree. It is Saud and Qatar with some others that are causing the violence. All are friends of israel.



    But this break off scenario isn't going to happen anytime soon and the Kurdish government is pro-Iran. israel has been arming Kurdish militants against their own people for some time now but they have been squashed every time.

    Max Italy
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 16
    Points : 19
    Join date : 2014-06-29
    Age : 50
    Location : Veneto, Italy

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Max Italy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:26 pm

    arpakola wrote:

    so they are SU25! great!  attack 

    Max Italy
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 16
    Points : 19
    Join date : 2014-06-29
    Age : 50
    Location : Veneto, Italy

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Max Italy on Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:47 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Max Italy wrote:I read two different versions of the some news... Shocked 

    Iraq air force already received secondhanded warplanes (thanks to great Russia! few words and lots of facts!)russia 
    bUT what kind of planes and how many of them?

    On RT NEWS I read about 10 SUKHOI SU24....

    On AL JAZEERA I read about 5 SUKHOI SU25...


    and...I'm not an expert of warplanes....in your opinion what is the best between the two kind of planes in order di attack ISIS troops?  attack

    The SU-24 is old school plane, currently under replace from fighter bomber planes like the SU-34 or the f35 that americants want to use as the replacement of Tornado which is SU-24's equivalent.
    Since ISIS don't have air force and they are basicaly light to middle armed rebels the principal plane in Russia's arsenal against them is currently SU-25 and the very modern SU-34

    clear and precise, thank you!

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4467
    Points : 4658
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:18 am

    As far as arms deliveries go, both Iraq and Syria need tanks...I'm proposing Russia to deliver hundreds of their T-55's/T-64's left in storage modernized with modern thermal sights, modern ERA, modern Soft and Active protection and urban warfare kits, and many could be converted in to the BMPT role...and they should be sold at a affordable price. Direct oil-for-arms deals to make the deals "work". The price for a modernized T-55's should be at $200,000, and a modernized T-64's should be at $250,000, a nice affordable price...A $100 million contract could get either Iraq or Syria 400 modernized T-64's, or 500 modernized T-55's!

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:32 pm

    To properly form Kurdistan you would need parts of Turkey, Iran, Syria, and Northern Iraq. The parts of Iraq I doubt the US cares about now and they would love to see parts of Syria and Iran be taken from those countries... BTW what happened to boundaries of countries being sacrosanct and unmoving... Georgia and Crimea like...

    the US will have to grudgingly care about Turkey however.

    To be honest I think most of ISIS's gains in Iraq are because they are in such a poor state after the US went in and smashed everything and then left. Syria has been broken over a long period of time but I suspect their invasion of Iraq was because of the weakness there... Kurds controlled most of the north for most of this century anyway with no fly zones intended to stop saddam from crushing their independence.

    In other words they have taken up land occupied by Iraqi Kurds as an external base for fighting in Syria... the US is doing little but Russia seems to be filling the void and equipping the Iraqis to assert their authority.

    My worries are not for ISIS, but for the Kurds... who again have thrown in with the wrong lot... the last time round it was al quada.

    The funniest discussion I had with an expert from acig was his evidence of links between al quada and Saddam... well it turns out he had not read his own article properly and the links were between al quada and the Kurds and Saddam was being prevented from attacking them by the no fly zone. Shut him up for a bit but didn't change his position on Saddam, the Kurds, or Al quada.

    Russia should certainly get together with the Iraqi and Iranian and Syrian Armies respectively and go through the things they could use like tanks and other vehicles and equipment that is in storage or about to be scrapped and see if they can put it to use. Wont be charity, but it also wont be worn out crap that is useless either.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    As Sa'iqa
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 416
    Points : 352
    Join date : 2013-06-01
    Age : 22
    Location : Western Poland

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:00 am

    Reports that supporters of radical shia cleric Sayyid Sarkhi Hasani are fighting ISF in Karbala.

    So it's also shia vs shia now.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1967
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:02 am

    Apparently the Iranian Su-25K and Su-25UBK aircraft are being deployed to Iraq also.

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/01/iranian-su-25-iraq/


    Behrooz
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 26
    Points : 28
    Join date : 2014-06-14

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Behrooz on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:To properly form Kurdistan you would need parts of Turkey, Iran, Syria, and Northern Iraq. The parts of Iraq I doubt the US cares about now and they would love to see parts of Syria and Iran be taken from those countries... BTW what happened to boundaries of countries being sacrosanct and unmoving... Georgia and Crimea like...

    the US will have to grudgingly care about Turkey however.

    To be honest I think most of ISIS's gains in Iraq are because they are in such a poor state after the US went in and smashed everything and then left. Syria has been broken over a long period of time but I suspect their invasion of Iraq was because of the weakness there... Kurds controlled most of the north for most of this century anyway with no fly zones intended to stop saddam from crushing their independence.

    In other words they have taken up land occupied by Iraqi Kurds as an external base for fighting in Syria... the US is doing little but Russia seems to be filling the void and equipping the Iraqis to assert their authority.

    My worries are not for ISIS, but for the Kurds... who again have thrown in with the wrong lot... the last time round it was al quada.

    The funniest discussion I had with an expert from acig was his evidence of links between al quada and Saddam... well it turns out he had not read his own article properly and the links were between al quada and the Kurds and Saddam was being prevented from attacking them by the no fly zone. Shut him up for a bit but didn't change his position on Saddam, the Kurds, or Al quada.

    Russia should certainly get together with the Iraqi and Iranian and Syrian Armies respectively and go through the things they could use like tanks and other vehicles and equipment that is in storage or about to be scrapped and see if they can put it to use. Wont be charity, but it also wont be worn out crap that is useless either.



    I agree with everything here.

    Behrooz
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 26
    Points : 28
    Join date : 2014-06-14

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Behrooz on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:49 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Reports that supporters of radical shia cleric Sayyid Sarkhi Hasani are fighting ISF in Karbala.

    So it's also shia vs shia now.



    Be careful taking what western "experts" claim as there are very, very few actual western experts on the middle east.



    Both answer to Sistani and Sadr. They are far more powerful than the government of Iraq itself.

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4467
    Points : 4658
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:48 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Reports that supporters of radical shia cleric Sayyid Sarkhi Hasani are fighting ISF in Karbala.

    So it's also shia vs shia now.

    Shia vs Shia? Highly unlikely, unlike Sunni Wahhabi Salafist Islamists who regularly fight and kill among themselves like animals, Shia militants on the other hand usually stick together through thick-and-thin and usually put their differneces aside for greater goals such as the case of Iran and Syria, where Iran is a Shia Islamist state and Syria is a Shia led secular state, and despite differences in how much of a role religion should play in their respective govts., they've allied with each other to fight the Sunni Wahhabi Salafist barbaric hordes.

    As Sa'iqa
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 416
    Points : 352
    Join date : 2013-06-01
    Age : 22
    Location : Western Poland

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:16 am

    There are rifts between Shia clerics and the Iraqi government... They existed since the US invasion and earlier they resulted in an open ended war between Muqtada Al Sadr and Iraqi authorities.
    The guy whom I was talking about is ayatollah Mahmud Hasani Al Sarkhi... In 2006 his followers attacked an Iranian consulate and took down it's flag and in 2012 they clashed with the supporters of Sistani. HE is not a major figure but still. Recent clashes reportedly resulted in 45 dead. How many are ISF personel is unclear. There is relatively greater unity among shias because there is just a single shia-majority country in the world while at the same time you have several sunni countries fighting for influence, and in some of them (Gulf countries) there are dozens of rival factions within the country itself... so the result is a mess of epic scale.

    BTW - shias are no less barbaric than sunnis.. Imam Ali whom they venerate so much was the most ruthless butcher in the history of their religion, with his cruelty rivaled by no one among early muslims (read the books of Khomeini)  The only reason why they may look more moderate is because they are a minority so they can win more by playing the victim card (better PR). And of course Iraqi governemnt is nnot vehemently sectarial though it may change in the future (Maliki probably won't stay for much longer given his failures.)

    Behrooz
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 26
    Points : 28
    Join date : 2014-06-14

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Behrooz on Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:35 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:There are rifts between Shia clerics and the Iraqi government... They existed since the US invasion and earlier they resulted in an open ended war between Muqtada Al Sadr and Iraqi authorities.
    The guy whom I was talking about is ayatollah Mahmud Hasani Al Sarkhi... In 2006 his followers attacked an Iranian consulate and took down it's flag and in 2012 they clashed with the supporters of Sistani. HE is not a major figure but still. Recent clashes reportedly resulted in 45 dead. How many are ISF personel is unclear. There is relatively greater unity among shias because there is just a single shia-majority country in the world while at the same time you have several sunni countries fighting for influence, and in some of them (Gulf countries) there are dozens of rival factions within the country itself... so the result is a mess of epic scale.

    BTW - shias are no less barbaric than sunnis.. Imam Ali whom they venerate so much was the most ruthless butcher in the history of their religion, with his cruelty rivaled by no one among early muslims (read the books of Khomeini)  The only reason why they may look more moderate is because they are a minority so they can win more by playing the victim card (better PR). And of course Iraqi governemnt is nnot vehemently sectarial though it may change in the future (Maliki probably won't stay for much longer given his failures.)


    Lebanon, Iraq and Iran are all Shia majority. In Iran, violence is very rare. Also, Khomeini never wrote a violent thing in his life. There are a few fake books written by Jews, but Khomeini clearly never wrote them. Also, Al Sarkhi is officially not a Shia and holds no power.


    These are Khomeinis actual writings.

    http://www.imam-khomeini.com/web1/english/showitem.aspx?cid=1662&h=13&f=14&pid=1794

    As Sa'iqa
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 416
    Points : 352
    Join date : 2013-06-01
    Age : 22
    Location : Western Poland

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:02 am

    Lebanon is not Shia majority. Their influence is leveraged by the influence of Sunnis and Christians.

    Ad Khomeini - note that his retorics from before the revolution was different than after revolution. Still he wrote a great deal of asininity regarding the role of Islamic state (vilayat faqih) and other things (among them sex with children). Unfortunately that fool Pahlavi banned his books, robbing the Iranians of a chance to examine them for themselves. Had they known his natura, they would have never elected that madman as their leader.

    There is still hope for these people though. Most Iranians seem to dislike the regime and I hope they will overtheown the regime and elect a secular ruler. I wish the same to all theocracies in the region, regardless of hich superpower they will support afterwards.

    For you, there is one quote from Kashf Al Asrar by Khomeini. I failed to see how it differs from Sunni rhetorics.
    Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.
    But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world ... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless.

    Islam says: kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]?

    Islam say: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us?

    Islam says: kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy?

    Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors!

    There are hundreds of other ayat [Qur'anic verses] and ahadith urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.
    What I would like to see is a Vietnam-like war in Iraq, exhaustive for the Iranian army. Once they send their forces, it will be hard for them to secure a victory. The Guardians of the revolutions will bleed themselves out, weakening the entire system. At best the entire mess should end with the collapse of both ISIS and Iranian regime. It would be bloody but it would be a just price for freedom.

    Sponsored content

    Re: IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:01 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:01 pm