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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

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    Strizh
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 5:07 pm

    WTF is Putin doing  Shocked  I really hope he has a good plan!

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 07, 2014 5:14 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Has Putin gone of the deep end!!? Shocked 
    Putin calls for end to Kiev’s military operation, postponing referendum in E. Ukraine
    “We have been told that our troops on the Ukrainian border are a concern – we have withdrawn them. They are now not on Ukrainian territory, but at locations where they conduct regular drills at ranges,” he said.
    http://rt.com/news/157404-putin-ukraine-crisis-kiev/


    As incompetent as i think Putin is ,with how he allowed the west to control Ukraine in an financed revolution. The main problem still continues to be the total lack of participation of civilians in the eastern revolt. Just look at marilou ,the building was totally taken by pro Kiev
    authorities without a fight and only 50 people were there defending it.  Putin Policy with Ukraine have been a total failure since the first coup in 2004 ,he should had a clue that its "Westerns partners" will not give up and try again at a later date.  And we saw the shameful total lack of participation of Pro Russian people when the Euromaidan was burning buildings in kiev. Simply the Ukrainian are not worth of any help , for any independence of the west ,if they do nothing for themselves and allow them to experience IMF austerities ,and how it is to be a colony of USA and EU ,with a bankrupt nation.  When it comes to the people who did something for their independence ,Russia should offer them asylum to all their known leaders.

    The Neo nazis at the orders of its CIA handlers will try to force all the 8 millions of Russians to flee in panic to Russia as refugees ,to damage Russia economy having to maintain them.. thats the reason of the blind terrorism and shooting on civilians by "unknown militants".


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 07, 2014 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  arpakola on Wed May 07, 2014 5:15 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    gaurav wrote:I dont want to sound pessimistic but..
    The news may be that referendum is postponed. Ukraine election will go as planned and ukraine will merge with E.U

    This is what looke like now.

    Well we may see.

    I did some search.. Ukraine never existed till 1600 .. Ukraine was 16th century Polish project to carve out "uKRAINE" from Russia..
    This is how Ukraine came into existence.

    Polish had a plan to exterminate Russian Nation and hence they evolved the UKRAINE concept ..
    It was by 1700 A.D (16th centrury) that Ukraine was established .. by the venomous Poland..

    This is how Poland not only succeed in carving out Ukraine but also weakening Russia in the process.

    Basically, the Mongol Hordes invaded and around just before 1600, Muscovy broke free before Kiev.
    Before then, Kiev had always been the capital of Russia or "the Kievan Rus" as it was orginally called.

    The only other time a "Ukraine" appeared was with the Nazi vermin.
    Even in the 20th Century, Kiev was a Russian, not a Ukrainian city.
    Putin talks about Kiev as "the Mother City of the Rus". Thats why I cant understand his game plan, and why we haven't seen 500 jets flying over the borders.

    Ukrainians (those who speak that dialect, and have this Russian hatred) are some Polish, German mix. The whole Ukrainian ideology is cobbled together crap. Just look at Tymoshenko. Its from Dnipropetrovsk, and its 1st language is ... Russian
    So for the last 1100 years, the "Ukraine" has been an indep country for 24 yrs (except for 2 invasions - a Nazi and a Polish one).

    The story for an independent Ukraine is just crap in intl law terms and in factual ones. Shame most Westerners dont even know it.

    But anyway, most Brits (as an example) will call a Czech, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Estonian immigrant etc to Britain a "Russian". And they assume that Russia (the "Russian Mafia") has absolute control of everything east of the Danube.

    ________________________________________
    Its puzzling what Putin is saying. Maybe he just wants to confuse the West. Usually he has a gameplan. Usually he's as cunning as a fox. We don't know what else he knows. Maybe there's gonna be a BIG surprise, and everything will turn out massively in Russia's favour.

    BUT, IF supposing there aren't other factors... I wonder what the betting odds are that Putin has made an error in holding back?
    Could there be a lurch towards patriotism in Russia? Is it possible someone else could replace Putin? A real tiger who  finds the idea of negoiation offensive? I wonder... :-/

    May 11 is a big day, for sure...

    lets see what happened so far

    1. No one talks about Crimea any more
    2. The EU and their pappets are unmanegably exposed politicaly .. they cannot claim politicaly  the east any more
    3. They were expecting Russia to invate and All their actions were driven based on this scope, start acting like Bulls . Now Russia looks not invating .. their military brutal attack to S.East.. thats what remains. They must be  exposed now .. go to election , but with  what agenta ? How are they  going to convince anyone in the s.east .. but   in Kiev also .. that they have good intensions.

    And they have to pay the bill , merkel has to pay the bill.
    And most importand .. the idea of split or Federalisation is on the table now..

    will see....


    Last edited by arpakola on Wed May 07, 2014 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed May 07, 2014 5:17 pm

    Strizh wrote:WTF is Putin doing  Shocked  I really hope he has a good plan!

    IMO, Putin is trying to take the heat off him. If referendum goes, and the result will call for independence, then he'll be pressured internally to recognize it, and externally- not to recognize it.
    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Strizh
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 5:29 pm

    lifenews.ru/news/132793
    Boah this right sector scum shoots unarmed protestors in Mariupol!

    This is so wrong we need to intervene.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 07, 2014 5:29 pm

    He shouldnt have pulled the forces from the border, as that will make him look weak as people will think that US will have jurisdiction on where Russia can place troops within her own border.

    But, it appears that Poroshenko is promising to hold referendum if he gets elected. Maybe that is what Putin is waiting for.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Firebird on Wed May 07, 2014 5:30 pm

    Well if they vote for indpendence/joining Russia, there shouldn't really be any discussion.
    After the atrocities commited by the Ukr Nationalists, whether its Tymoshenko, Yarosh or the other looneys, I don't think anyone in the SEast really wants to associate with the maniacs.

    2ndly, its all very well talking about "no outside interference". If thats the case, why the hell are Merkel and Obama's lot even sitting at a table? And Russia isn't "outside" the Ukaine. They are one country, separated due to a corrupt clown called Yeltsin back in 1991. Just my view anyway..

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Firebird on Wed May 07, 2014 5:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:He shouldnt have pulled the forces from the border, as that will make him look weak as people will think that US will have jurisdiction on where Russia can place troops within her own border.

    But, it appears that Poroshenko is promising to hold referendum if he gets elected. Maybe that is what Putin is waiting for.

    I wonder if Poroshenko might be helpful. But then again, so was Yanukovich... until he was chased out of the country by Right Sektor, CIA and EU mercenaries. Democracy is becoming irrelevant in these circumstances. The junta lives by the gun.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 07, 2014 5:43 pm

    Putin's playing a double game

    On the one hand we have reinforcements arriving in Lugansk; Russian Cossacks, reportedly Chechens too and others on the way. I doubt they would have got through if the Russian FSB Border Guard troops had orders to prevent them. Until now though, Russia has had very little involvement in the rebellion.

    On the other hand, he is pandering to the West; supporting elections set up by an illegitimate government whose result is predetermined, calling for east regions referendum to be postponed.

    Not the best idea, Putin has to pick one side or the other because its only a matter of time until their intelligence services note the large numbers of volunteers flowing over the border from Russia, and they won't be fooled.
    West has been making false accusations, threats over nothing, and defending an illegitimate government, no interest in preventing a civil war or listening to the other side.
    IMO Putin has to crack the whip, decapitation of the Kiev leadership; their actions cannot be tolerated, and an armed intervention into Lugansk and Donetsk.
    Let the West do what they're going to do, they will see that Russia is ready to go all the way - and they will never do so themselves for the sake of the Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed May 07, 2014 5:51 pm

    - Pavel Gubarev and 2 other anti-federalization leaders were exchanged against the 3 SBU operatives.
    - Putin asks May 11 referendum to be postponed and describes the May 25 presidential elections "a step in the right direction".
    - Poroshenko promises decentralization if he is elected

    Sounds like a deal has been worked out. Of course any party can still backtrack. All kinds of games can be played.

    We will see.

    Strizh
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 5:56 pm

    I don't like this "deal"! There can't be a united Ukraine anymore after what this thugs did!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  arpakola on Wed May 07, 2014 6:07 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Putin's playing a double game

    On the one hand we have reinforcements arriving in Lugansk; Russian Cossacks, reportedly Chechens too and others on the way. I doubt they would have got through if the Russian FSB Border Guard troops had orders to prevent them. Until now though, Russia has had very little involvement in the rebellion.

    On the other hand, he is pandering to the West; supporting elections set up by an illegitimate government whose result is predetermined, calling for east regions referendum to be postponed.

    Not the best idea, Putin has to pick one side or the other because its only a matter of time until their intelligence services note the large numbers of volunteers flowing over the border from Russia, and they won't be fooled.
    West has been making false accusations, threats over nothing, and defending an illegitimate government, no interest in preventing a civil war or listening to the other side.
    IMO Putin has to crack the whip, decapitation of the Kiev leadership; their actions cannot be tolerated, and an armed intervention into Lugansk and Donetsk.
    Let the West do what they're going to do, they will see that Russia is ready to go all the way - and they will never do so themselves for the sake of the Ukraine.

    The west is exposed like the 100m runner with early start before the gun shot..!!! (Russian intervention..)

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  medo on Wed May 07, 2014 6:19 pm

    As I said few times, you could win a war with cool head and good strategy, not with high emotions. Now is simply not a time for Russian intervention and Putin well understand it, although Kiev regime and the West do everything possible to provoke Russian military reaction. Russia need some time now to prepare things, specially regarding sanctions and diversification of economy. Lavrov give a proposal for new Geneva talks, where both Kiev regime and federalist side participate to find political solution.

    In one hand, Putin's suggestion to have referendum later and removing troops from the border is a try to deescalate tensions for Geneva talks and on the other hand with removing troops from the border it makes easier to close your eyes regarding smuggling weapons, ammo, supplies and voluntiers to help federalist side.

    It is also intended to show Ukrainians, that Russia is not an enemy as Kiev regime try to show it and that the conflict is internal Ukrainian conflict and not between Kiev and Moscow. Crucial is support from Ukrainian population and if Russia goes now in Ukraine, majority of Ukrainians will side with Kiev against Russia and intervention will fail and Russia will be trapped in long war with all bad consequences from the West. Putin will have to keep a cool head and wait for the right moment although it will be very hard to do.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Firebird on Wed May 07, 2014 6:32 pm

    Maybe there's some bluffing going on. Maybe he's wondering how to win as much of the Central region as he can.

    This British newspaper suggests the idea is to delay the referendums a week. And that a presidential election would occur after the referendums ie Putin's suggestion of Constituional changes and steps towards Federalisation were taken.

    I know the whole thing absolutely baffles me. I'd have fried Lvov weeks ago, TBH.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/07/ukraine-crisis-putin-referendum-autonomy-postponed

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 07, 2014 6:33 pm

    Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 6:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

    Correct!

    There is no other option as an intervention.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Viktor on Wed May 07, 2014 6:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

    I think Putin struck some kind of deal with the west about Ukraine, media does not know about.

    We have no information to conclude what happened.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed May 07, 2014 6:44 pm

    Strizh wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

    Correct!

    There is no other option as an intervention.  

    Why intervention?
    Luhansk and donetsk districts comprise 6 million people (about the same as serbia). They could raise army with good defensive capabilities even all by themselves, if they really wanted to.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 6:44 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

    I think Putin struck some kind of deal with the west about Ukraine, media does not know about.

    We have no information to conclude what happened.

    IMHO this is wishful thinking, he has nothing. I don't understand his decision he could easily supply the federals with weapons and volunteers plus some SF operation to take out the leaders, that's it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 07, 2014 6:45 pm


    Apparently after police take control of the city hall hours after they leave the activist return.
    and take control of the building back..




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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 07, 2014 6:47 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Problem thing is, people are not rational. Putin will end up looking weak and incompetent in the eyes of Russians (which matters) all the while, Russia will still look like the bad guy (due to piss poor quality media pushing the real information) to the restof the world, and Us will look like heros. And all on top, Ukraine will enter EU/NATO and US can jusify placing bases in Ukraine.

    Sorry to say, but your guys long term views are skewed. Putin I guess is weak. I think its time for him to go and get someone in who will make the appropriate changes.

    I think Putin struck some kind of deal with the west about Ukraine, media does not know about.

    We have no information to conclude what happened.

    It doesnt matter what deals they struck. If it isnt out in open, then those deals can be forgotten about later on, like NATO not expanding eastwards. When asked, they say "show us were we signed this agreement?" And you think, after everything (USAid funding oppositions in Russia and pushing revolutions in other countries, Supporting outright monsters in Kiev, blatantly lies about Russian presence in e Ukraine and supporting dictatorship, while lieing about not supporting revolutions even though there are both media and picture reports of their visit to Maiden protestors), that what they say is to be trusted? Yeah....No. Putin failed here. And he is openly allowing pressure from outside make decisions for him, his country and his people, while letting their other family members be target in Ukraine and allow to be encircled more.

    I hope Russians take to the streets and demand Putin to step down or he make a different decision. This one is one of his worst decisions ever. He now looks like a coward.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 6:59 pm

    Now the west will act even more aggressive against Russia. Because hey the sanctions worked we can control Russia now.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed May 07, 2014 7:00 pm

    Laughing 
    Merkel angry because parades on May 9 in the Crimea

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed regret scheduled for May 9 military parade in the Crimea. "Several years ago, on May 9, I was in Moscow to demonstrate that history can teach us anything. Therefore, it seems to me a sad fact that in the region, located in the middle of a crisis, the parade will take place," - said Merkel journalists agency EFE.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 07, 2014 7:02 pm

    Strizh wrote:Now the west will act even more aggressive against Russia. Because hey the sanctions worked we can control Russia now.

    I bet Central Bank put pressure. Because sanctions would have helped domestic enterprises big time.

    Screw him. He really screwed up big time here. And Sanctions would have barely hurt Russia besides banking sector. I really bet it is them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 7:06 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Strizh wrote:Now the west will act even more aggressive against Russia. Because hey the sanctions worked we can control Russia now.

    I bet Central Bank put pressure. Because sanctions would have helped domestic enterprises big time.

    Screw him. He really screwed up big time here. And Sanctions would have barely hurt Russia besides banking sector. I really bet it is them.

    Correct! Damn what's wrong with him!

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