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    Russia - Pakistan military deals

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    Viktor

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    Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:15 pm


    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:36 pm

    nice.

    what's the "backlog" on Mi26s now?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:52 am

    I suspect French/German interest in the Mi-26 for a heavyweight helo is off the table at least for a year or so... Sad


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:45 am

    GarryB wrote:I suspect French/German interest in the Mi-26 for a heavyweight helo is off the table at least for a year or so...  Sad

    I'd say that's dead now
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:29 am

    I'd say that's dead now

    Dead is too final.

    After a year or two this will be forgotten and unless all bridges are burned it will likely be business as usual.

    Eventually the US will demand real sanctions and Russia will hit back by say blocking the NATO transit route over their territory and then the west will squeal and hopefully shut up.


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    mack8

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  mack8 on Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:40 pm

    Russia lifts embargo (was there one? didn't realized that), Pakistan interested in Mi-35 (and Mi-26) among other things:
    http://itar-tass.com/politika/1232153

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  mutantsushi on Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:11 am

    GarryB wrote:I suspect French/German interest in the Mi-26 for a heavyweight helo is off the table at least for a year or so...  Sad
    NATO definition of "heavyweight" is not the same as Russian.
    EU Heavy Lift concept has long been mooted to be a derivative of CH-53K... If anything, more comparable to Mi-46 concept than Mi-26.
    At least that is the EU Heavy Lift Helicopter concept I have seen for the last ~10 years, if there is another one in a wholely different class, I'm all ears...
    But I hardly see BOTH concepts going forward, for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with nationality or political blocs.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:56 am

    The talk I read about was trying to decide if they were going to develop a whole new helicopter design or to buy and modify the Halo.

    It was going to be a joint French German project, presumably if they chose the Halo option then it would be a joint French German Russian programme.


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    George1

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:09 pm

    Russia lifted the embargo on deliveries of weapons and military equipment to Pakistan
    Russian Aviaton » Friday June 6, 2014 17:29 MSK

    Russia has lifted the embargo on deliveries of weapons and military equipment to Pakistan. At present Russia is negotiating deliveries of Mi-35 helicopters to the country, ITAR-TASS reports with reference to CEO of Rostec State Corporation, Sergey Chemezov.

    "The decision has been taken and we are negotiating the deliveries of the helicopters", - he said. CEO of Rostec added that this refers to Mi-35 vehicles.

    Earlier a military-diplomatic source reported about lifting the embargo on deliveries of military equipment to Pakistan. According to the source, Pakistan was also interested in purchasing Mi-26 helicopters.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Sujoy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:28 pm

    George1 wrote:Russia has lifted the embargo on deliveries of weapons and military equipment to Pakistan.

    There was never any Russian arms embargo on Pakistan . Russia supplied the Mi 17 helos to Pakistan . Consequently following the Indian example Pakistan too converted the Mi 17s into gunships .

    Apart from that Pakistan has been getting Russian equipment ranging from aero-engines for its JF-17 fighters being produced with China to thinly-disguised Chinese variants of Russian radars, guns and the like .

    Pakistan is the most attractive arms market in the world . It is also a [major non ] NATO member ( MNNA) . But there are a couple of questions that need to be answered :

    (1) will Russia be able to sell to Pakistan at a price lower than that of China ? For example , China is pitching the Z 19 against the Mi 35 or Pakistan intends to purchase the [Saturn] AL-31F powerplant for the Chengdu J-10B . So can Russia sell these engines to Pakistan at a price less than what the Chinese are charging ?

    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140604/DEFREG01/306040023/Analysts-Welcome-Russian-Decision-Arms-Sales-Pakistan

    (2) will the US still provide the finance if Pakistan opts for Russian weapons instead of "NATO weapons" ?

    (3) will Saudi Arabia be willing to bankroll Pakistan if they decide to purchase Russian weapons ?

    Pakistan rarely pays for the weapons it receives . It gets the money from the Saudis or the Americans and subsequently pays the Chinese with it .



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    medo

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  medo on Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:14 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia has lifted the embargo on deliveries of weapons and military equipment to Pakistan.

    There was never any Russian arms embargo on Pakistan . Russia supplied the Mi 17 helos to Pakistan . Consequently following the Indian example Pakistan too converted the Mi 17s into gunships .

    Apart from that Pakistan has been getting Russian equipment ranging from aero-engines for its JF-17 fighters being produced with China to thinly-disguised Chinese variants of Russian radars, guns and the like .

    Pakistan is the most attractive arms market in the world . It is also a [major non ] NATO member ( MNNA) . But there are a couple of questions that need to be answered :

    (1) will Russia be able to sell to Pakistan at a price lower than that of China ? For example , China is pitching the Z 19 against the Mi 35 or Pakistan intends to purchase the [Saturn] AL-31F powerplant for the Chengdu J-10B . So can Russia sell these engines to Pakistan at a price less than what the Chinese are charging ?


    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140604/DEFREG01/306040023/Analysts-Welcome-Russian-Decision-Arms-Sales-Pakistan

    (2) will the US still provide the finance if Pakistan opts for Russian weapons instead of "NATO weapons" ?

    (3) will Saudi Arabia be willing to bankroll Pakistan if they decide to purchase Russian weapons ?

    Pakistan rarely pays for the weapons it receives . It gets the money from the Saudis or the Americans and subsequently pays the Chinese with it .




    Here is an interesting point. Saudi Arabia pay for weapons purchase from Russia for both Egypt and Pakistan. Interesting is, that main talks and negotiations with Saudi Arabia goes through China, who want, that Saudi Arabia also sell its oil for Juans. Something big is happening behind the scene as Iran and KSA are the larger oil and gas suppliers in ME, who could sell oil and gas in other currencies than USD and Libya and Iraq are sinking in new civil wars, which could practically blocked their oil supplies. EU will be even more dependent on Russian supplies and the fall of USD will also bring to fall of EURO. I hope India as member of BRICS group is close to this Russian-Chinese strategy against US empire.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:59 pm

    Sujoy wrote:

    (1) will Russia be able to sell to Pakistan at a price lower than that of China ? For example , China is pitching the Z 19 against the Mi 35 or Pakistan intends to purchase the [Saturn] AL-31F powerplant for the Chengdu J-10B . So can Russia sell these engines to Pakistan at a price less than what the Chinese are charging ?

    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140604/DEFREG01/306040023/Analysts-Welcome-Russian-Decision-Arms-Sales-Pakistan


    I think pakis still haven't got J-10s, have they?

    And with embargo lifted, it would actually make a lot of sense for them to buy Mig-29s, since they use the same engines as jf-17.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Sujoy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:09 am

    medo wrote:Something big is happening behind the scene as Iran and KSA are the larger oil and gas suppliers in ME, who could sell oil and gas in other currencies than USD and Libya and Iraq are sinking in new civil wars, which could practically blocked their oil supplies. EU will be even more dependent on Russian supplies and the fall of USD will also bring to fall of EURO .


    China, Russia and India are emerging as the alternative powers for the Arabs who appear to be particularly unhappy by three recent developments — (a) US' declining energy dependence, (b) US disinterest in Syria and (c) US' potential toleration of a nuclear-capable Iran. The Sunni-dominated Arab states including Saudi Arabia is deeply apprehensive of Shia-dominated Iran’s influence in the region. Saudi Arabia's goal is to encircle Iran in the region, weaken its allies and stopping its regional aspirations. If this Saudi policy has to become successful it needs to wean away huge countries like India & China that have a massive demand for Iranian oil . Iran used to be the number two oil supplier to India, while India was Iran’s number two market. However, since 2011, Iran has steadily lost this position. In January 2014, Indian imports of Iranian oil were 35 per cent less than in the corresponding period last year. Saudi Arabia has already succeeded in forcing Pakistan to opt out of the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. Now Saudi Arabia is trying hard to wean away India from Iran .


    etaepsilonk wrote:I think pakis still haven't got J-10s, have they?

    No , the powerplant issue is holding things up . Pakis & Chinese want the AL 31F .

    etaepsilonk wrote:it would actually make a lot of sense for them to buy Mig-29s, since they use the same engines as jf-17.

    Again , question is can Russia sell the Mig 29 at a price less than that of the Chengdu J-10B ? In any case most of the weapons that the Chengdu J-10B carries are Chinese copy of Russian ( like R 77 ) and Israeli ( like Python 3 ) weapons .

    Remember the Chinese even stole a march over the Americans by selling the CH-3 UCAV to Pakistan for < $1 million whereas the Predator cost > $30 million .
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    George1

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:23 am


    type055

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  type055 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:26 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    medo wrote:Something big is happening behind the scene as Iran and KSA are the larger oil and gas suppliers in ME, who could sell oil and gas in other currencies than USD and Libya and Iraq are sinking in new civil wars, which could practically blocked their oil supplies. EU will be even more dependent on Russian supplies and the fall of USD will also bring to fall of EURO .


    China, Russia and India are emerging as the alternative powers for the Arabs who appear to be particularly unhappy by three recent developments  — (a) US' declining energy dependence, (b) US disinterest in Syria and (c) US' potential toleration of a nuclear-capable Iran. The Sunni-dominated Arab states including Saudi Arabia is deeply apprehensive of Shia-dominated Iran’s influence in the region. Saudi Arabia's  goal is to encircle Iran in the region, weaken its allies and stopping its regional aspirations. If this Saudi policy has to become successful it needs to wean away huge countries like India & China  that have a massive demand for Iranian oil . Iran used to be the number two oil supplier to India, while India was Iran’s number two market. However, since 2011, Iran has steadily lost this position. In January 2014, Indian imports of Iranian oil were 35 per cent less than in the corresponding period last year. Saudi Arabia  has already succeeded in forcing Pakistan to opt out of the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. Now Saudi Arabia is trying hard to wean away India from Iran .


    etaepsilonk wrote:I think pakis still haven't got J-10s, have they?

    No , the powerplant issue is holding things up . Pakis & Chinese want the AL 31F .

    etaepsilonk wrote:it would actually make a lot of sense for them to buy Mig-29s, since they use the same engines as jf-17.

    Again , question is can Russia sell the Mig 29 at a price less than that of the Chengdu J-10B ? In any case most of the weapons that the Chengdu J-10B carries are Chinese copy of Russian ( like R 77 )  and Israeli ( like Python 3 ) weapons .

    Remember the Chinese even stole a march over the Americans by selling the CH-3 UCAV to Pakistan for < $1 million whereas the Predator cost > $30 million .


    stolen?? just because your country can build nothing, and become the world largest weapon dumping market?? If you say china is good at copy weapon system , India even has no ability to build any weapon system.

    you country even import bullets , and no one want to invent wheels twice! Chinese people never treat India as threat even competitor, why most india keep talking shit
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:54 am

    Again , question is can Russia sell the Mig 29 at a price less than that of the Chengdu J-10B ?

    If all that mattered was price then Pakistan should buy MiG-15s.


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    iraqidabab

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    A Pakistani newspaper has reported that Russia has agreed to supply Pakistan with Mi-28 helicopter gunships.

    Post  iraqidabab on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:50 pm

    A Pakistani newspaper has reported that Russia has agreed to supply Pakistan with Mi-28 helicopter gunships and 48 MI-35 helicopters.



    Source : Mi-28 For Pakistan - Russia Agrees



    ( btw I can't translate it as I can't read Urdu )
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    George1

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:31 pm

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:48 pm


    type055

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  type055 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:45 am


    where is the “nice”?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:51 am

    The serbs shot down several western drones with Hinds... in fact with men in the back of Hinds firing PKMs to shoot down the slow flying UAVs... I would expect the 23mm nose mounted cannon of the Hind would be devastating against a drone plus its new night and all weather capable systems will make it a very useful tool for COIN ops and anti terrorist ops.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  Viktor on Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:50 pm

    type055 wrote:

    where is the “nice”?

    Very Happy ... only 4 but yeah its a "nice"
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    George1

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:25 pm



    Last edited by George1 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:52 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:25 pm

    George1 wrote:This could be a setback for the relations with India however

    "Rosoboronexport" to discuss with Pakistan the supply of Mi-35

    Both are being encouraged to join SCO, so in a years time we will know for sure if that's the case.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia - Pakistan military deals

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:34 pm

    George1 wrote:This could be a setback for the relations with India however

    "Rosoboronexport" to discuss with Pakistan the supply of Mi-35

    When it was first mentioned about sales of Mi-35M to pakistan, apparently some mentioned that Russia approached India about it and told them/guaranteed them that the amounts to be sold and its purpose would be no issue for India, as it is supposed to be used as anti terror operated. And apparently India was cool with it.

    Funny too that Pakistan is interested in it still, when they have recently received Wz-10.

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