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    US-Turkish Military relations

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    Mindstorm
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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:48 am

    Hey GarryB, do you remember what i had foreseen in my previous message ?

    ...NATO complete its ABM "encirclement" of Russian Federation (the second phase will be placement of ABM elements in India and/or Japan)

    Well read here please :


    www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article2516344.ece

    Now we have two different explanations (naturally with degrees of plausibility completely different..... Very Happy )

    1) NATO ,as a true organization of the Good and of Peace, has choiced to protect the innocent NATO European people from the ,mhhhh immense and imminent Iranian threat Laughing Laughing Laughing , starting a galactical program for high end GBI ballistic defence systems (litterally for some trillion of dollars !!!!!) to be placed in.......East Europe Suspect Suspect Suspect .
    But that is not all !!!
    Because it is a true philantropic organization ,NATO has organized a lottery : "The Great Lottery of Peace and Protection" with the names of several not-NATO nations the citizen of which would have winned the right to be defended under the great NATO's "Shield of Good"; the blindfolded godess has put down its hand and... (drum rull..)... India has been selected !!!
    Oh ,i almost forgot, naturally in this istance i have foreseen that name only thanks to my sensitive powers and the position of the stars (the same astral position which suggest to me that within some years another Lottery will be carried out and the winner will be...mhh...mhh...(concentration ) ..mhh..mh... Japan !!!!!

    2) On the basis of the technical reasons previously mentioned NATO has been forced ,by a fast widening technological gap with Russia in nuclear delivery systems,to carry out ,in a very short time window, some extrreme measures ,such as the unilateral exit from ABM treaty in 2002 and a multi-trillion dollar ABM program ,envisioning a slow "encirclement" plan of Russian Federation with high end ground based ABM interceptors and sensor bases to attempt the neutralization of Russian missile in the unique phase of theirs vulnerability : boost phase (naturally India become a crucial element also, in perspective against a fast-growing China ICBM menace).


    This provide also a good explanation to the great effort by part of USA ,in particular in open media (thanks also to self-evident "shopping" operations of several mean, mercenary Indian media operator) aimed at sabotage in any way and ,eventually, fracture the old partnership and friendship between India and Russia ,bashing anything Russia-related and promoting ,in ways sometimes even comical, any step toward Western products or economic interests.


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:22 am

    I don't doubt they might want to do this.

    I just think that they can't follow through.
    The US includes lots of strings restricting the use of everything they sell, in fact they don't really sell weapons... they rent them.

    India would be given a lot of freedom to use US weapons against China, but China isn't really anywhere near the threat to India that Pakistan is...

    Also the creation of an ABM system that encircles Russia will actually be a very good thing... it will make it very clear to Russia that the US is a country they can do business with but that they will never be friends and that the INF treaty will likely be the first to fall followed by the Start treaty.

    We don't need a new cold war and I don't think Putin is stupid enough to drag Russia down that path, but there are plenty of cheap and easy ways to greatly increase the threat to the US and NATO without spending all their money... the INF treaty gone will make nuclear deterrence against Europe much cheaper as IRBMs are not counted by the new START treaty so all 1,500 strategic weapons can be directed at the US.
    The US might respond by introducing IRBMs and cruise missiles back to Europe... but the threat from conventional forces is already there anyway.

    Spending on ABM and IRBM systems will not be good for the wests bottom line.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:02 am

    Iran has criticized Turkey for its decision to host NATO missile defense elements on its soil, the Mehr News Agency reported on Saturday.

    Maj. General Yahya Safavi, former commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps, said Turkey was on the wrong track.

    Turkey’s decision is a “strategic mistake” that would send a clear message both to Iran and Russia, “but more to Iran,” he said.

    He did not say what the message was.

    In September, Turkey agreed to host an early warning radar in the southeast of the country as part of NATO's missile defense system.

    The system is capable of countering ballistic missile threats from Iran.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111008/167496294.html

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  Pervius on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:46 pm

    Russian Patriot wrote:

    .....ballistic missile threats from Iran.



    Ha ha ha! If Iran had a ballistic missile system worth being afraid of, the Israeli's would have blown it up long ago.

    Iran doesn't really have any military gear. No Air Force. No Navy. What they call a Navy wouldn't even match a Coast Guard for normal countries.


    Iran's always just been a pawn played by other countries as their resources are sucked out. Sure America gave them some F-14's....can't fly them now because they can't get parts. And Russia's sold them some old outdated junk. China's sold them some old outdated junk......and Chinese ships were recently seized before they got to Iran with NEW military gear and it was rushed off to some countries for "testing" to see what the Chinese have for capability. Boy the chinese were mad about that.

    Iran has no military threat. Iran can't build anything on their own to be afraid of. Key word...on their own.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:46 pm

    I don't agree.

    Iran is not the global power or the global threat that the US and Israel try to paint it as, but it is certainly a regional power that shouldn't be trifled with.
    Iraq had a go in the early 1980s and pretty much lost that one.
    In regional terms the Iraqis had a powerful armed force and walked over Kuwaite and I would think if their mercenaries deserted them the Saudis would be in a bit of trouble too... despite all their nice shiny weaponry.

    Having said all that the US treatment of Iran is predictable bully boy tactics... Iran had the guts to stand up to the west and kick the US out... like Cuba did, and the result is that the bully is making all his friends hate them, or at least not trade baseball cards with them.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:29 am

    NATO Anti-Missile Radar in Turkey Put into Operation

    A NATO missile defense radar deployed in Turkey has been put into operation, CNN quoted a Turkish foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

    The X-band AN/TPY-2 early warning radar is part of the THAAD system designed to intercept medium-range missiles at very high altitudes. It is located at a military base in the eastern province of Malatya, some 400 miles southeast of the capital Ankara, and is manned by both Turkish and U.S. personnel, the spokesman said.

    He did not specify when the radar was put into operation. Earlier this month, Turkish daily Hurriyet quoted sources as saying it became operational on January 1.

    Turkey is among the five countries that agreed to host parts of a U.S.-European missile defense shield. The others are Portugal, Poland, Romania and Spain.

    Ankara and Washington have said the radar will help provide early warning of missile threats coming from outside Europe.

    NATO members agreed to install a missile shield over Europe to protect against ballistic missiles launched by so-called rogue states, for example Iran and North Korea, at a summit in Lisbon, Portugal, in 2010.

    Russia has strongly criticized NATO’s reluctance to provide written, legally binding guarantees that its European missile shield will not be directed against Moscow. President Dmitry Medvedev ordered in Novemebr a series of measures designed to strengthen the country’s missile defense capabilities in response to NATO’s shield, including the deployment of Iskander missiles in Russia's exclave of Kaliningrad on the border with Poland.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120117/170796159.html

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    NATO to Survey Patriot Missile Sites in Turkey

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:55 pm

    ANKARA, November 26 (RIA Novosti) – NATO officials will start surveying sites along the Turkey-Syria border on Tuesday for possible deployment of Patriot air defense systems, the Turkish General Staff said in a statement.

    The NATO delegation includes 30 experts from the United States, Germany and the Netherlands, all of whom have Patriots in their arsenals.

    The Turkish General Staff said that the Patriot missile systems will not be used to establish a no-fly zone or to conduct offensive operations, but only “against an air or missile threat from Syria,” the Hurriyet daily said, citing the statement.

    “The regions the Patriot systems would be deployed to and the number of foreign personnel that will be assigned to them will be be based on the NATO delegation’s site-survey,” the statement said.

    Turkey, a NATO member, has requested the deployment of Patriot missiles on its territory, saying the anti-missile system is necessary to protect its 900-km border with conflict-torn Syria.

    Among the most possible sites for the Patriot deployment are Diyarbakir, Urfa and Malatya in southeastern Turkey. Hurriyet said up to 300 military personnel will be needed to service the Patriot batteries.

    Syria has condemned the Patriot missile plan in Turkey as “another act of provocation.” Russia has warned that the move could trigger a regional crisis. NATO maintained that the missiles would be placed for defensive purposes only.

    US Patriot surface-to-air missiles were last deployed to Turkey in 1991 and 2003, during the two Gulf Wars, to protect the country from Saddam Hussein’s Scud missiles.

    Turkey has fired artilllery salvos across its border with Syria several times in recent weeks in retaliation for Syrian shelling, which killed five Turkish civilians in October. It has also provided shelter to refugees fleeing the violence in Syria and has been one of President Bashar al-Assad’s harshest critics during the almost 17-month revolt against his rule.

    Tensions between Turkey and Syria flared dangerously this summer after Damascus shot down a Turkish fighter that had violated its airspace. Turkey threatened retaliation if there was any repeat of the incident, although it admitted the plane had mistakenly strayed slightly into Syria.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121126/177743649.html

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:23 pm

    The first component of an illegal no fly zone over Syria?


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  SOC on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:59 am

    NATO apparently has approved PAC-3 deployment. Germany and the Netherlands will provide the batteries.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:24 am

    With the level of foreign intervention in Syria and now the US Congress banning the use of US taxpayers money with contracts with the Russian export company, perhaps Russia needs to start offering Iran and Syria more substantial material.

    If the US has the right to not buy Russian weapons then Russia has the right to sell defensive weapons to Iran... if you want to play carrot and stick but not offer a carrot then you should not have high hopes for the results of that sort of training.

    If the US congress wants to wield the stick Russia can too.


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  SOC on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:11 pm

    I've already said that Russia is well within its legal right to sell systems like the S-300PMU-2 to Iran...heavy strategic SAMs aren't on the UN Arms Control Register, which is what is used as reference when the UN bans arms sales to a given state. Makes sense from the UN's standpoint, they're trying to 1) ban things like MANPADS' that could be transferred or otherwise end up in the hands of terrorists, and 2) ban the sale of things like tanks that can be used to plow over civillians.

    With the appearance of JY-27, JYL-1 and Type 120 radar sets in Syria, it would appear that Russia may have fallen behind China in the effort to supply systems to Syria that could make NATO/the UN think twice about military action. That being said, Syria has a Russian/Soviet-based IADS with predominately Soviet-era kit, and Russia is making inroads with the sale of systems like Pantsyr and the Buk-M2E. But the import of modern Chinese rather than Russian advanced radars makes me think that Syria might be considering Chinese SAM systems like the HQ-9 over the more expensive Russian alternates like Favorit.

    Congress banned deals with Rosoboronexpor/Rusarm? News to me. Pointless law anyway, given the "buy Uhmerican" lobby all over the place. It's almost treated as state treason when a non-American product is purchased for the Armed Forces. Keeping voters happy is more important than getting the best kit available for the military. That being said I for one wouldn't mind dumping Patriot for the S-400, but I believe that falls under the "no chance in hell" category even if Congress OK'd it. Don't think Putin would ever go for that one!

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:18 pm

    So, is Congress going to heavily criticize China over the radar sales?

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  SOC on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:18 am

    Of course not. That would make too much sense, wouldn't it? The DoD and the rest of the government are trying to justify China as the "next big threat", when in actuality the threat of armed conflict between the US and the PRC is ridiculously low. But this would seem like a great time to point to China as the bad guy, right? On the other hand, the radars aren't useful against insurgents or rebels unless you want to use them to drive over people.

    The really interesting thing in all of this is that there was no mention anywhere of the radar sales until they were located in imagery and a Type 120 was seen on one of the radar sites that anti-Assad guys captured.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:41 am

    Of course not. That would make too much sense, wouldn't it? The DoD and the rest of the government are trying to justify China as the "next big threat", when in actuality the threat of armed conflict between the US and the PRC is ridiculously low. But this would seem like a great time to point to China as the bad guy, right? On the other hand, the radars aren't useful against insurgents or rebels unless you want to use them to drive over people.

    Well US politicians like to play the fear card, but in the case of China despite the fact that they are zero threat to the US the US politicians have the other problem that China is actually an economic threat to the US.

    If the US managed to annoy China off to the point of armed conflict the Chinese could simply demand the US pay China all of the US debt that China has bought and make the US collapse economically.

    The reality is that the Chinese own so much US debt they would have quite a few problems themselves in terms of economics... like it or not the Chinese have hitched their wagon to the US good ship lollypop so if the Lollypop sinks the Chinese will suffer too.

    I personally am a bit surprised that the US has not tried the obvious of demonising China and taking the obvious steps of freezing their "assets" to try to nullify a lot of US debt held by China... now that would be amusing.

    Underhanded, sure, but on the same level as reducing taxes for rich people and of course printing more money...


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    US-Turkish relations

    Post  mutantsushi on Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:32 pm

    Like the title says...
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/29/us-turkey-erdogan-idUSBREA3S0A120140429

    This seems like it could be a watershed in Turkish-US ties, with the US already clearly not 100% comfortable with Erdogan.
    The US has obviously been cultivating Gulen, so it is rather hard to see them complying...
    Not out of loyalty, but because they would lose their prime lever in Turkey (with old school Kemalists also sidelined).
    On the other hand, if they don't comply, Erdogan may go ahead and purge the Gulenists anyways...
    But either way, the relationship with Erdogan seems likely to head down a Saddam Hussein type path.

    If US-Turkish relations do go further down-hill,
    that will probably have repurcussions in Syria, Iraq/Kurdistan, Muslim Brotherhood in rest of Arab world, etc.
    If Turkey continued escalating in Syria, possibly "going too far"/ not staying within "agreed upon bounds",
    would the US and Saudis end their backing of the Syrian civil war if it looked no longer within it's control?
    Would Turkey disengage from/ impede the NATO-GCC Syrian "project", and refocus it's energies elsewhere in the region?

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:55 pm

    Turkey is no American Ally
    Originally published under the title, "America's Unacknowledged Problem."

    Turkey is officially a NATO ally, and President Barrack Obama has called the current President of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a friend. But Erdogan-led Turkey does not behave as an ally or a friend of the US. This is not a new development.

    Erdogan and his Islamist party, the AKP, have ruled Turkey since 2002. Erdogan's Turkey has gradually distanced itself from the West, adopting domestic and foreign policies fueled by Ottoman and Islamist impulses.

    Turkey has been on the road to an authoritarian regime for several years. Infringements on human rights have gradually increased. In truth, Turkey has never had a political system with checks and balances able to constrain attempts to consolidate power around one politician. In recent years, Erdogan has weakened further the few constitutional constraints against the 'Putinization' of the Turkish political system.

    Foci of power, such as the bureaucracy, the banking system, industrial associations and trade unions have been mostly coopted by the AKP.

    The longer Erdogan rules, the more power hungry he seems. His authoritarian personality becomes clearer every day. The press is hardly free. Erdogan arrests even Islamist journalists that are critical of his policies. His party has infiltrated the judicial system and the police. Foci of power, such as the bureaucracy, the banking system, industrial associations and trade unions have been mostly coopted by the AKP. Opposition political parties are largely discredited. The military, once active in politics as the defender of the Kemalist secular tradition, has been successfully sidelined.

    From a realpolitik perspective, the domestic political developments, deplorable as they may be in Turkey, could be ignored by the democratic West as long as Ankara continues to be a useful ally. Unfortunately, Turkey no longer qualifies as a trusted ally.

    The most recent examples of nefarious Turkish behavior are its support of ISIS and Hamas. Turkey is playing a double game on the issue of the Islamic State. It pretends to cooperate with the US policy in the attempt to contain radical Islam, but actually Turkey supports ISIS. It allows volunteers passage through Turkish territory to join ISIS in Iraq. ISIS receives logistical support via Turkey, and sends its wounded militants for treatment there. Turkish military forces stood idly by the besieged city of Kobani, just across the Turkish border, while the Islamists killed Kurdish fighters. Finally, Turkey denies the American air force access to Turkish bases; forcing the US to use far away bases when attacking ISIS targets.

    Turkey is also openly supporting another radical Islamist organization – Hamas. Despite the fact that the West regards Hamas a terrorist organization, Ankara regularly hosts Hamas representatives that meet the highest Turkish dignitaries. Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, has a rabid anti-American position. Moreover, Salah al-Aruri, a senior Hamas operative, operates out of Istanbul. Recently, the Turkish branch of Hamas was involved in a series of attempts to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel, and in orchestrating a coup against the current leadership of the Palestinian Authority.

    Such behavior should not surprise policy makers in Washington. In 2003, Ankara denied the request from Washington to open its territory so that the US military could attack Saddam Hussein's forces from two separate fronts.

    AKP-ruled Ankara also defied American preferences on Syria, a country allied with radical Iran and on the American list of states supporting terrorism. In January 2004, Bashar Assad became the first Syrian president ever to visit Turkey. In April 2009, the two states conducted their first ever joint military exercise. No other NATO member had such close relations with the authoritarian regime in Damascus, which has been closely allied with Iran for several decades.

    Turkey further deviated from the Western consensus in 2008 by hosting Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir twice. Bashir, who was charged with war crimes and genocide in Darfur, presided over an Islamist regime.

    Turkey has consistently defied advice from Washington to tone down its anti-Israel statements and mend relations with an important American ally.

    Turkey even welcomed the president of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, for a visit in August 2008. No Western country has issued such an invitation to the Iranian leader. Additionally, Erdogan congratulated Ahmadinejad immediately after his re-election in June 2009. When it comes to Iran's nuclear threat, Ankara, unlike its NATO allies, has refused to adopt the U.S. stance on harsher sanctions, fearing in part the economic consequences of such steps. In June 2010, Turkey voted at the UN Security Council against a US-sponsored resolution meant to impose a new round of sanctions on Iran.

    Turkey also has consistently defied advice from Washington to tone down its anti-Israel statements and mend relations with an important American ally. All American efforts in this direction have failed.

    There is also a clear divergence between the US and Turkey on important global issues such as Russia and China. For example, the US. wanted to send ships into the Black Sea via the Bosphorus Straits during the Georgia war in August 2008. Turkey flatly denied several such requests on the pretext that the military vessels were too large. Moreover, Turkey proposed the creation of a regional security framework involving Turkey, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan, that left out a NATO role. More blatantly, Turkey has failed to participate in the Western economic sanctions imposed on Russia during the recent Ukraine crisis.

    Dissonance exists also with regards to China. While the US fears the rise of China, Turkey sees this country as a potential economic partner and not as a problem. It held military exercises with China. Ankara even considered purchasing anti-aircraft systems from Beijing, an incredibly brazen position for a NATO member!

    It is not clear why Washington puts up with such Turkish behavior. The Obama administration seems to be unable to call a spade a spade. It refuses to acknowledge that Turkey is a Trojan horse in NATO, and that Ankara undermines American interests in the Middle East and elsewhere.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:32 pm

    Ankara Grants US Military Go-Ahead for Strikes Against ISIL From Turkey

    In the fight against the self-proclaimed Islamic State terrorist group, the Turkish government has given the US permission to conduct air strikes from its soil, according to the Wall Street Journal and Turkish media.

    According to Turkish media reports, an agreement between US President Barack Obama and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan was finalized Wednesday night, after the two leaders spoke by phone.

    The deal will purportedly allow US-led coalition aircraft to use Incirlik Air Base in eastern Turkey. The deal would allow for both manned and unmanned aircraft to conduct strikes against the terrorist group in Syria. According to Todays Zaman, the agreement will also establish "safe zones" along the border, where Syrian refugees will be kept under the watch of the Turkish military.

    The Turkish military, however, will not take part in the airstrikes.

    While the White House has neither confirmed nor denied the reports, the Wall Street Journal has confirmed the reports with Pentagon officials.

    "I'm not able to talk about some of those issues because of specific operations security concerns," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said when asked about Incirlik, according to Reuters. "What we have acknowledged is that our coalition has access to a variety of bases throughout Europe and the Middle East for a variety of missions."

    The Turkish government has repeatedly said it has no interest in launching offensives into Syria, but a recent wave of violence along the border may have changed that policy. On Monday, a suspected IS suicide bomber killed 32 students in a town along the border. On Thursday, border clashes with IS fighters left one Turkish officer dead.

    "They're in a counter-ISIL fight right across the border," a defense official, speaking anonymously, told the Wall Street Journal.

    The Turkish military has bolstered its security along the border as conflict between Kurdish militia, IS fighters, and Syrian security forces grows stronger.

    According to a Sputnik correspondent based in Turkey, Kurdish militia fighters are amassing military equipment along the border.

    Ankara had agreed to open airbases to the US military late last year, but that deal fell through after the United States failed to agree to certain conditions. Turkey had sought the establishment of a safe zone inside Syria which would be enforced with a no-fly zone, an idea routinely rejected by US officials.

    While manned missions were previously not allowed out of Incirlik, the air base currently houses six US Predator drones which were allowed to conduct operations.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150723/1024976142.html#ixzz3gn94BjNw


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:55 am

    Withdrawal Date of F-16 Jets Sent to Turkey Yet Undefined - US Armed Forces

    The withdrawal date of the US F-16 jets recently sent to Turkey as part of the ongoing campaign against the Islamic State (ISIL) terrorist group is still undefined, a US European Command spokesman told Sputnik on Tuesday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – On Sunday, the US Mission to NATO announced that the US Air Force is deploying six of its F-16 fighter jets to the southern Turkish base of Incirlik.

    "It's too early to tell the timeline, but we'll work with our Turkish counterparts to ensure we maintain pressure on the adversary [Islamic State] as best we can," Lt. Col. Christopher Hemrick said.

    On July 24, the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the country was ready to make its domestic air bases available to US and coalition aircraft participating in the anti-ISIL operation.

    Washington has long asked Ankara for the use of the Incirlik air base to launch air raids against the ISIL in Syria and Iraq. The US Air Force previously used the facility for logistical and humanitarian purposes.

    The US-led international coalition, which includes Turkey that previously refused to actively participate in anti-ISIL coalition operations, has been conducting airstrikes against ISIL positions in Iraq since August 2014. It later expanded the attacks to include ISIL targets in Syria.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150811/1025620769.html#ixzz3ieELAkRj


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:56 am

    Turkey Wants to Work With Int’l Community to Establish Syria No-Fly Zone

    Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu says Ankara hopes to work with the United States and the international community to establish a no-fly zone over northern Syria to protect civilians amid the civil war in the country.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Ankara hopes to work with the United States and the international community to establish a no-fly zone over northern Syria to protect civilians amid the civil war in the country, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told the BBC Tuesday.

    The Turkish prime minister noted in the interview that it is necessary to create “an area where civilians can stay without any fear of being attacked and killed" in Syria.

    “If there was a no-fly zone and a safe haven inside Syria, there wouldn’t be such a flow [of migrants to the EU countries],” Davutoglu said.

    To date, Turkey is home to the largest contingent of Syrian refugees in the world, and has reportedly spent $6 billion on helping these migrants. Turkey has also repeatedly blamed the European Union for not doing enough to help refugees fleeing conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa.

    Syria has been in a state of civil war since 2011, with the government battling several insurgent groups, including the Nusra Front and the Islamic State. More than 220,000 people have died and millions have been displaced as a result of the long-standing military violence in the country, according to the UN.


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:00 am

    US Launches First Manned Airstrikes Against ISIL From Turkish Base


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    George1
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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:59 am

    US, Turkey to Create New Cruise Missile for F-35 Fighter Jet


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    zenmonk
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    U.S. Brings Dogfighters to Counter Russians Over Syria

    Post  zenmonk on Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:39 pm

    The Pentagon is sending F-15Cs—supposedly to fight the ISIS war. But the jets only have air-to-air weapons, and ISIS has no planes. Which means the real adversary is Russia.
    The U.S. Air Force is deploying to Turkey up to a dozen jet fighters specializing in air-to-air combat—apparently to help protect other U.S. and allied jets from Russia’s own warplanes flying over Syria.

    Officially, the deployment of F-15C Eagle twin-engine fighters to Incirlik, Turkey—which the Pentagon announced late last week—is meant to “ensure the safety” of America’s NATO allies,

    the F-15s will be escorting attack planes and bombers as they strike ISIS militants in close proximity to Syrian regime forces and the Russian warplanes that, since early October, have bombed ISIS and U.S.-backed rebels fighting the Syrian troops.

    In stark contrast, the F-15s only carry air-to-air weaponry, and their pilots train exclusively for shooting down enemy warplanes. It’s worth noting that F-15Cs have never deployed to Afghanistan, nor did they participate in the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq. The war in Syria is different.

    what are the options available for Russia to counter this move? Will they use their S 3oo/.4oo or Will they scramble the Su 30 sm deployed there?

    sepheronx
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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:41 pm

    good luck to them seeing as how those F-15's are gonna be within range of the electronic warfare systems.  And they wouldn't dare shoot down an Su-30SM when it is legally in Syria while they are not.  It will be open season on any US jet in Syria.

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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  nemrod on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:13 pm

    zenmonk wrote:...Which means the real adversary is Russia.....what are the options available for Russia to counter this move? Will they use their S 3oo/.4oo or Will they scramble the Su 30 sm deployed there ?

    Nope. US have no intentions to fight russian fighters. Since mid September, all NATO communications from Incirilik, and Adana are completely jammed, and disabled. Russian fighters used fly above turkish's sky. All NATO hardwares are completely ineffective, including AWACS, Elint, F-22, etc.... The deployment of F-15 C is a political aim, it is a message to all NATO allies that are now more and more realizing that US lost electronic warfare. The message to US allies "do not worry we are sending our state of the art". Nevertheless, I don't see what could do F-15 C, as they could not use their air to air missiles. F-15 could down the SU-30 if F-15 outnumber the SU-30. In this case it is the case. But Russia has many other assets and could easily overrun US aircrafts. Russia does not need S-300, or S-400 to down US aircrafts, as they won electronic warfare.


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    Re: US-Turkish Military relations

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:55 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    zenmonk wrote:...Which means the real adversary is Russia.....what are the options available for Russia to counter this move? Will they use their S 3oo/.4oo or Will they scramble the Su 30 sm deployed there ?

    Nope. US have no intentions to fight russian fighters. Since mid September, all NATO communications from Incirilik, and Adana are completely jammed, and disabled. Russian fighters used fly above turkish's sky. All NATO hardwares are completely ineffective, including AWACS, Elint, F-22, etc.... The deployment of F-15 C is a political aim, it is a message to all NATO allies that are now more and more realizing that US lost electronic warfare. The message to US allies "do not worry we are sending our state of the art". Nevertheless, I don't see what could do F-15 C, as they could not use their air to air missiles. F-15 could down the SU-30 if F-15 outnumber the SU-30. In this case it is the case. But Russia has many other assets and could easily overrun  US aircrafts. Russia does not need S-300, or S-400 to down US aircrafts, as they won electronic warfare.

    Out of curiosity, how do you know this?

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