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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:16 pm

    The Tug is now off the NW coast of Portugal. Still seems to be going back and forward, not just in a straight line.

    It will be interesting to see which route they take to get to N Norway, west or east of the British Isles. Or for a laugh, up the Irish Sea.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:33 pm

    The fleet will clear the north of Portugal tonight. They are 100Km+ from the coast and seem to be positioned seaward of the normal shipping lanes. Travelling at about 11.5 knots so 10% faster than their usual speed.

    The USS George Bush left Virginia yesterday on its way to the Mediterranean and then the Gulf. A much delayed sailing but they probably got to the point when they thought it would be a good idea to let the Kuznetsov get well clear of the Med before they got there. Mind you both fleets intermingling with their underwater buddies, going in opposite directions would have been interesting.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:13 pm

    To answer my own question, from the current track of the Tug I would say they are going to the west of Ireland. Speed up to just under 12 knots. I think they want to get home asap.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:37 pm

    Well I got that wrong again. They are already off East Anglia on the east coat of England having passed through the Channel, escorted by a UK frigate, HMS St Albans (nearest to camera in photo), earlier today.

    I think they turned the smoke generator on again Smile Mind you the Tug's speed is currently up to 12.5 knots.




    Video on BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/38750696
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    George1

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:32 am



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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:30 am

    Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:01 am

    In the longer term having basically an extra Kuznetsov would not be as useful as having a more modern vessel instead of it.

    In the short term having two ships would mean better readiness as when one vessel is in dock for an overhaul or upgrade the other can be available for training or operations.

    The thing is that the main difference is that if they still had the other vessel they would have a carrier platform available for the next 3-4 years while the K is in overhaul/upgrade.

    I doubt that will actually prove critical as they have gotten by without needing a carrier till recently and if it was not available... as it wont be for a few years now I am sure they will find other alternatives.

    The main point of their fixed wing carriers is to provide an extra layer of protection for their ships and to extend vision via AEW aircraft and fighter aircraft.

    For a few years they wont have that and then they will again.

    I would say the money they got was probably more useful than the cost of keeping two carriers operating and indeed the upgrades needed to keep them operational.

    In a decade or so when they get two into service they will likely not only be in a better position to actually need them but will also have better support to operate them.

    For instance having foreign ports around the world where they can go and operate from would make them rather more valuable than they are now.


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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:58 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:04 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    Russia did not sell the Varyag to China.
    It was the Ukraine who sold it.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:In the longer term having basically an extra Kuznetsov would not be as useful as having a more modern vessel instead of it.

    In the short term having two ships would mean better readiness as when one vessel is in dock for an overhaul or upgrade the other can be available for training or operations.

    The thing is that the main difference is that if they still had the other vessel they would have a carrier platform available for the next 3-4 years while the K is in overhaul/upgrade.

    I doubt that will actually prove critical as they have gotten by without needing a carrier till recently and if it was not available... as it wont be for a few years now I am sure they will find other alternatives.

    The main point of their fixed wing carriers is to provide an extra layer of protection for their ships and to extend vision via AEW aircraft and fighter aircraft.

    For a few years they wont have that and then they will again.

    I would say the money they got was probably more useful than the cost of keeping two carriers operating and indeed the upgrades needed to keep them operational.

    In a decade or so when they get two into service they will likely not only be in a better position to actually need them but will also have better support to operate them.

    For instance having foreign ports around the world where they can go and operate from would make them rather more valuable than they are now.
    So you're saying that Russia will absolutely be able to cope without a carrier for the next 20-30 years?
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:08 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
    Since it would be given priority, i doubt that.
    Better have a rusty carrier than one in computers.
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:43 am

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:14 am

    The tug is currently stopped in the middle to east side of the North Sea north of Holland. Looks to be too far east for an optimum straight run north.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:30 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
    Since it would be given priority, i doubt that.
    Better have a rusty carrier than one in computers.

    There is another Slava rusting away in Ukraine, Russians did not buy it even tho they had decade and a half to do so. No moneyuz.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:17 am

    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
    Since it would be given priority, i doubt that.
    Better have a rusty carrier than one in computers.

    There is another Slava rusting away in Ukraine, Russians did not buy it even tho they had decade and a half to do so. No moneyuz.
    Well in hindsight they should've stopped all funding for construction of gorshkov or anything amur shipyard related since they'll never get built anyway and should've bought any big soviet boats ukraine still had left.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:12 am

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.

    I agree... even if they had access to both to keep both operational would cost twice as much... but what for?

    Spending money on one makes sense as it gives you a capability you don't have without it, but spending money on both means spending twice as much for more reliable access to that capability... and to be honest that would not be as useful.

    So you're saying that Russia will absolutely be able to cope without a carrier for the next 20-30 years?

    First of all Russia will be fine if it never has an aircraft carrier again.

    But what are you talking about 20 to 30 years for?

    The Kuznetsov is going in to refit for an upgrade and overhaul... it will be gone maybe 4-5 years at most.

    When it comes out of the dock it will be OK for another decade or more, and likely by the time it comes out they will be at the point of laying down a whole new class of fixed wing carrier... a decade later they will have two carriers and probably another on the way assuming India doesn't want one... if they do then it is likely two in service (new one and K) and two new ones on the way (one for Russia and one for India).

    There is another Slava rusting away in Ukraine, Russians did not buy it even tho they had decade and a half to do so. No moneyuz.

    More precisely there is limited money... if they desperately needed it they would spend the money and have it... like they did with Israeli drones.

    The fact is that they already have enough vessels and are likely to focus more on new designs rather than reviving old ones.

    The Soviet navy was several times bigger than the Russian navy needs to be so they can pick and choose what to revive and what to let rest.

    Well in hindsight they should've stopped all funding for construction of gorshkov or anything amur shipyard related since they'll never get built anyway and should've bought any big soviet boats ukraine still had left.

    With Hindsight they should have moved all successful entities within the Soviet Union to Russia and been the domineering overbitch all the Baltic states and eastern european states seem to think they were.


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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:09 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
    Since it would be given priority, i doubt that.
    Better have a rusty carrier than one in computers.

    There is another Slava rusting away in Ukraine, Russians did not buy it even tho they had decade and a half to do so. No moneyuz.

    They wanted to buy it for 1 million$ IIRC, the ship is in a very bad state that's why they didn't gave more. Ukraine is spending some millions $ for just kipping it at port, they should have gave it them for a symbolic dollar.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:49 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Should we regret that the Varyag was sold to the chinese? Was there any effect on the Russian economy from the money the deal? Would Russia have less ships built if it was never sold? If you think it was worth it, why do you think a few hundred million gotten from an iffy ally would justify destroying 50% of your blue water capability that will likely never be restored until mid century?

    To explain you in short, it would be still there rusting away.
    Since it would be given priority, i doubt that.
    Better have a rusty carrier than one in computers.

    There is another Slava rusting away in Ukraine, Russians did not buy it even tho they had decade and a half to do so. No moneyuz.

    They wanted to buy it for 1 million$ IIRC, the ship is in a very bad state that's why they didn't gave more. Ukraine is spending some millions $ for just kipping it at port, they should have gave it them for a symbolic dollar.

    Its almost completed as far as hull goes, many subsysterms were installed too, it was in mint shape for very long time, as i said "its rusting away" today. Its probably late now to invest in it as it looks quite bad. Ukraine wanted last year to find money and finish it but i doubt they have cappacity or funds to do so.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:07 pm



    They wanted to buy it for 1 million$ IIRC, the ship is in a very bad state that's why they didn't gave more. Ukraine is spending some millions $ for just kipping it at port, they should have gave it them for a symbolic dollar.

    Even if Ukraine paid to remove that scrap heap it would still be idiotic to accept it.

    Well in hindsight they should've stopped all funding for construction of gorshkov or anything amur shipyard related since they'll never get built anyway and should've bought any big soviet boats ukraine still had left

    This sentence is used in dictionary as an example of term ''full retard''

    Even one Gorshkov in trials and late is still more beneficial than entire collection of Ukrainian scrap metal.
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:19 pm


    Even if Ukraine paid to remove that scrap heap it would still be idiotic to accept it.

    Not really, if they can upgrade the ships sensors and put S-400 (not redut) and Oniks instead of S-300 and Bazalt, it can be a good deal for a ship of that size. They achieved to do it to a Kirov class, they could do it with this one too.

    From wiki wrote:It was reported that the Ukrainian government invested 6.08 million UAH into the ship's maintenance in 2012.[10]
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    A1RMAN

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:23 pm

    From wiki wrote:It was reported that the Ukrainian government invested 6.08 million UAH into the ship's maintenance in 2012.[10]


    With Ukraine it's sometimes very difficult to understand if they are really investing or just stealing money.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:49 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Even if Ukraine paid to remove that scrap heap it would still be idiotic to accept it.

    Not really, if they can upgrade the ships sensors and put S-400 (not redut) and Oniks instead of S-300 and Bazalt, it can be a good deal for a ship of that size. They achieved to do it to a Kirov class, they could do it with this one too.

    From wiki wrote:It was reported that the Ukrainian government invested 6.08 million UAH into the ship's maintenance in 2012.[10]

    That is beans, its less than 250.000 USD.
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:26 pm

    That is beans, its less than 250.000 USD.

    There is no way they achieve to put the ship in service so they are spending this money for nothing. At least they could give the money to me and make me happy Very Happy
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:36 am

    The tug stopped for at least 12 hours, as at the last update 12 hours ago. Not sure what this means for the rest of the fleet.

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:00 pm

    On the move again, now at 13.5 knots, getting towards level with the north of Denmark heading towards Norway, probably off Stavanger lunchtime tomorrow.

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