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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:02 am

    "There was no issue with an aircraft or pilot. This new cable was just installed on the deck and it was the first landing of the aircraft on this new cable. And most likely the crash is to be blamed on the quality of the cable. Its still required to determine year of manufacture for the cable and the quality of its installation". - Gazeta.ru
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:23 am

    Militarov wrote:
    kvs wrote:Bring on the negative PR.  Those that need to consume their hate fantasies projected on Russia can lap it up.
    Probably the only reason the Kuznetsov was deployed was to test for failures.  As noted above, it likely never got
    new arrestor cables.   There are probably other dead rats which are the legacy of the good old 1990s which
    we have not seen yet or know about.  

    Some heads will roll from this exercise.   And Russia haters can not bank on these "failures" being there when it counts.

    They could do all that without going to Syria. Despite common belief, deck operations do not differ much between wartime and peacetime, except pace of the launches and amount of warload you deal with. And they have far more other shit to sort before those two.

    So yeah, this was bad idea to start with.

    Pace of launches is what snapped the cable. So real war was still needed. When USN started using this AC thing in war for real back in the 40's I doubt they got everyhing right on the fist go. Nobody does.

    This is Russia's first go.

    You want to play, you gotta pay.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Pace of launches is what snapped the cable. So real war was still needed. When USN started using this AC thing in war for real back in the 40's I doubt they got everyhing right on the fist go. Nobody does.

    This is Russia's first go.

    You want to play, you gotta pay.

    Be that as it may, there's a certain technological gap associated with how cables, arrestor hooks, etc. were assessed and monitored (prior, during and after operations) in the early 60s, compared to nowadays. It is simply easier these days. Russians in 2016 have all the means at their disposal to do so more efficiently and without having to loose 10% of the carrier-borne jets in 10 days.
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    kvs

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:00 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Pace of launches is what snapped the cable. So real war was still needed. When USN started using this AC thing in war for real back in the 40's I doubt they got everyhing right on the fist go. Nobody does.

    This is Russia's first go.

    You want to play, you gotta pay.

    Be that as it may, there's a certain technological gap associated with how cables, arrestor hooks, etc. were assessed and monitored (prior, during and after operations) in the early 60s, compared to nowadays. It is simply easier these days. Russians in 2016 have all the means at their disposal to do so more efficiently and without having to loose 10% of the carrier-borne jets in 10 days.

    You are just guessing. You have no clue about the engineering specifics of these parts. To you any piece of technology can be
    created by snapping of the fingers. That is obvious nonsense. Innovation requires experimentation. In science and in engineering.
    It is not optional. The US has had the benefit of vastly more field experience with these parts so all of the comparisons and evaluations
    of Russian "inferiority" are utter rubbish.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:10 am

    kvs wrote:You are just guessing.  You have no clue about the engineering specifics of these parts.

    I have a clue about Engineering then and now. Hence my comment.
    The specifics of these parts are irrelevant to my point. And judging by the result neither did the RuN have any clues about these ''specifics''.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:13 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:You are just guessing.  You have no clue about the engineering specifics of these parts.

    I have a clue about Engineering then and now. Hence my comment.
    The specifics of these parts are irrelevant to my point. And judging by the result neither did the RuN have any clues about these ''specifics''.

    No you don't. That is for sure. And not on this specific topic either since we all know Greece doesn't operate a carrier or even a proper navy for that matter.

    So please, spare us. You haven't convinced anyone.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:49 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:You are just guessing.  You have no clue about the engineering specifics of these parts.

    I have a clue about Engineering then and now. Hence my comment.
    The specifics of these parts are irrelevant to my point. And judging by the result neither did the RuN have any clues about these ''specifics''.

    No you don't.  That is for sure.  And not on this specific topic either since we all know Greece doesn't operate a carrier or even a proper navy for that matter.

    So please, spare us.  You haven't convinced anyone.

    I am not trying to convince anybody about the Engineering part, it is a fact. Greece not operating a carrier is hardly relevant to the discussion and my points. If the cables were somehow flawed, Russia could have used certain tools and technologies at their disposal, so that a second, identical accident would not have occurred and definitely not so chronologically close to one another.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:17 am

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:If somehow it is found the cables are "reconditioned" from Soviet stocks, heads will roll.

    I somehow highly doubt they made new arresting cables like... ever.

    ... the worst part is that I'm not even doubting this.

    Well see, i look at it like this. They probably made certain amount of spare wires at the time when carrier was made, probobably more than one set was on the carrier itself... so... they didnt launch many aircraft anyways so wear and tear was like minimal...

    Chances are wires that are used atm are sozdane v SSSR.

    Chances are you're right. Still very amazing on its own respect.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Lone Russian Aircraft Carrier is Being Misused in Syria

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:37 pm

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:12 pm


    It was the fault of the cable YET again. The pilots nor the plane are at fault that ship is the problem it needs to cut it's deployment shot and head back for modernization.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:14 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It was the fault of the cable YET again. The pilots nor the plane are at fault that ship is the problem it needs to cut it's deployment shot and head back for modernization.

    What's  interesting is that right now you have:

    1. FS Charles de Gaulle (R91) sailing between Cyprus and Israel, conducting aerial exercises till the 15th Dec. Hollande will visit it as well.
    2. USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) sailing in the region just west off Cyprus, conducting aerial exercises till the 13th Dec.

    The Americans and French will also conduct joint drills and bring along a cruiser and destroyers with them.

    So you have the two global powers when it comes to carrier ops right now, witnessing the whole Kuz saga up close as it unfolds. No
    At least next time they have to ditch a 4th generation fast-jet into the Med, they could consider landing it on one of their partner's nearby CVs.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:24 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It was the fault of the cable YET again. The pilots nor the plane are at fault that ship is the problem it needs to cut it's deployment shot and head back for modernization.

    What's  interesting is that right now you have:

    1. FS Charles de Gaulle (R91) sailing between Cyprus and Israel, conducting aerial exercises till the 15th Dec. Hollande will visit it as well.
    2. USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) sailing in the region just west off Cyprus, conducting aerial exercises till the 13th Dec.

    The Americans and French will also conduct joint drills and bring along a cruiser and destroyers with them.

    So you have the two global powers when it comes to carrier ops right now, witnessing the whole Kuz saga up close as it unfolds. No
    At least next time they have to ditch a 4th generation fast-jet into the Med, they could consider landing it on one of their partner's nearby CVs.
    Landing on a NATO carrier... Kilo, you live in an alternate universe.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:36 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:Landing on a NATO carrier... Kilo, you live in an alternate universe.

    It's a joke chill tongue
    Putin likes the word partners.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:49 pm


    Welcome to the discussion child. Hopefully you have the ability to read previous posts, no?

    That's OK, we hit nitwits here who have done nothing but blather on about th its they don't know and assume shit. While posting a ridiculous amount of times like some NEET loser.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:32 pm

    Pace of launches is what snapped the cable. So real war was still needed. When USN started using this AC thing in war for real back in the 40's I doubt they got everything right on the fist go. Nobody does.
    It could also be the wrong weight entered to the arrestor system- such mistakes occurred there before. Or the arrestor, not the wire, itself malfunctioned. I'm sure the Russians analyzed decades worth of US, French, British & Japanese carrier ops from open sources as well as info. obtained from intell. OTH, some sailor(s) may have gotten tired being there & decided to sabotage the ship to go home sooner!
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:58 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:OTH, some sailor(s) may have gotten tired being there & decided to sabotage the ship to go home sooner!

    Yeah don't make such jokes here as some folks have a severe lack of sense of humor. yes sir
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:11 pm

    At least next time they have to ditch a 4th generation fast-jet into the Med, they could consider landing it on one of their partner's nearby CVs.

    I doubt a Russian navy pilot would hand their aircraft over to the enemy like that.

    I am sure there is a policy of not supplying high tech equipment to the side that beheads children and burns women alive.

    The whole point of this operation is testing, so finding this stuff out now is what it was all supposed to be about.

    Children bleating about accidents shouldn't happen should look up the definition of accidents.

    OTH, some sailor(s) may have gotten tired being there & decided to sabotage the ship to go home sooner!

    You mean like the gay sailor on the Iowa class battleship that changed the order of the propellant charges in the gun his ex lover worked in so that it exploded and killed him when they fired... possible.

    AFAIK the arresting system is not set up for different weights... only steam cat launches are.

    There are only max landing weight limits set for the aircraft.


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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am sure there is a policy of not supplying high tech equipment to the side that beheads children and burns women alive.

    I thought Russia recently restarted business and were talking about deals with Turkey (S-400).

    Su-33 even with Gefest hardly qualifies as more cutting edge than S-400.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:27 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I am sure there is a policy of not supplying high tech equipment to the side that beheads children and burns women alive.

    I thought Russia recently restarted business and were talking about deals with Turkey (S-400).

    Su-33 even with Gefest hardly qualifies as more cutting edge than S-400.

    SU-33 hardly qualifies as cutting edge by any means.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:29 pm

    Militarov wrote:SU-33 hardly qualifies as cutting edge by any means.

    Start running now lol1
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:31 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:SU-33 hardly qualifies as cutting edge by any means.

    Start running now lol1

    Why, not like i said something that is not true. Come on, everyone here knows that Su-33s are long past their youth.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:11 pm

    Maybe not so obivous to everyone , but the most expensive component of a carrier is the trained crew , shipyard workers and suppliers.


    What happens now is the RUN lear the methods how to operate,maintain, design, train and usa the carrier.


    It is an expensive training, and they are lucky because no pilot was lost.

    At the moment they haven't got experienced crew/pilots, and they lerning how to train them now.


    Few weeks ago there was a lot of noise about the fact there is more aircraft than trained pilot.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:02 am

    GarryB wrote:
    At least next time they have to ditch a 4th generation fast-jet into the Med, they could consider landing it on one of their partner's nearby CVs.

    I doubt a Russian navy pilot would hand their aircraft over to the enemy like that. ..
    OTH, some sailor(s) may have gotten tired being there & decided to sabotage the ship to go home sooner!

    You mean like the gay sailor on the Iowa class battleship that changed the order of the propellant charges in the gun his ex lover worked in so that it exploded and killed him when they fired... possible.

    AFAIK the arresting system is not set up for different weights... only steam cat launches are.

    There are only max landing weight limits set for the aircraft.

    Neither Su-33 nor MiG-29K have the front landing gear designed &/ strong enough for CATs, so how would they get off those carriers even if they were cleared to recover on them? The J-15 is another matter- it now has a launch bar as Chinese r getting ready for CATOBAR ops on their future CVs. But even then they r a long away off, if ever, to crossdecking with the USN CVNs!
    «Под палубой стоят огромные барабаны – метров шесть диаметром. При зацепе они по специальной программе стравливают с себя трос – затормаживают в зависимости от посадочного веса машины. Этот вес может сильно отличаться в зависимости от объема топлива на борту. Всякий раз при посадке пилот сообщает на борт данные об остатке топлива. Тогда в зависимости от фактического веса машины ставятся «уставки» на тормозные барабаны, чтобы успеть остановить именно данный самолет на дистанции в 90 метров. Перед каждой посадкой конкретный матросик бегает и ставит «уставки». Если поставит неправильно, то барабан также будет тормозить неправильно, что может стать одной из причин обрыва троса, – пояснил собеседник. – И такие случаи бывали».http://www.vz.ru/politics/2016/12/5/666349.print.html
    Transl.: "Below deck are huge drums - six meters in diameter. When they trap, a special program with vented cable cause breaking action, depending on the landing weight of the plane. This weight can vary greatly depending on the amount of fuel on board. Before each landing, pilot reports data on remaining fuel. Then the "settings" depending on the actual weight of the plane are put on the brake drums in time to stop the aircraft at a distance of 90 meters. Before each specific landing sailor puts the "settings". If it's wrong, the drum will also slow down wrong, & it can be one of the causes of cable breakage, - he explained. - And such cases happened."
    I was not joking about possible sabotage- & it happened before in the Soviet Navy as well!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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    kvs

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:08 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Pace of launches is what snapped the cable. So real war was still needed. When USN started using this AC thing in war for real back in the 40's I doubt they got everything right on the fist go. Nobody does.
    It could also be the wrong weight entered to the arrestor system- such mistakes occurred there before. Or the arrestor, not the wire, itself  malfunctioned. I'm sure the Russians analyzed decades worth of US, French, British & Japanese carrier ops from open sources as well as info. obtained from intell. OTH, some sailor(s) may have gotten tired being there & decided to sabotage the ship to go home sooner!

    That is just fluffy unicorns fantasy. The Russian parts are not the US parts. They have their own physical characteristics
    so they have their own design learning curves.

    Exhibit A:

    China's knockoff of Su fighters the J-15. Even though they got their hands on the engines, they could not copy them after 15 years of
    trying.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:16 am

    I'm talking about ops in general, not parts; pl. see my prev. post. BTW, where is Canuckistan? Pl. clarify it on ur profile. Thx!

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