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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:50 am

    So 4-6 MiG-29K it is, because the days of hundred bomber raids are gone. Nice. I seem to find this as a much more unfortunate choice of logic (and words) than e.g. the truth on the Ka-25K being simply part of a dumped concept, designed for an LHD that is no more. I also said "oddly misused" which is very fitting.

    Doing more with less and at a fraction of the price... the new Russia.

    The LHD wasn't cancelled, the French broke the contract.

    They will likely build a helicopter carrier of their own design... now that they have intimate access to the Mistral design including making half the ships themselves I am sure their new design will be even better suited to their needs... ie ice capable and probably nuke powered.

    It can't offer Russia the tools that the French or Americans get out of their own equivalent assets, tools that the Russians badly want and need right now with Syria in flames.

    So lets replace the K with the CDG or a Nimitz piece of shit... what exactly do you think these pieces of western crap will do that they K can't do right now?

    What operates from the CDG or Nimitz class that can carry the weight of bombs the Tu-22M3 can carry? And can drop them with the precision to be useful for the cost of cheap dumb bombs?

    None?

    Really?

    What a disaster for France and the US... perhaps that is why they are really afraid of Russia in Syria... if the French and American people work out that the trillions spent on US and French carriers and even more so their useless bombing campaigns they might start asking questions about the enormous amounts of money being spent... who it is being spent on... and why.

    I mean are Libyan civilians and Yemeni civilians worth saving just like Syrian civilians... why do Syrian incidents get so much coverage and yet other victims get ignored... Palestinians anyone?

    AEW&C assets couldn't just go STOBAR.

    Ka-31.

    Could operate from a Mistral or Frigate.

    Those few Kuznetsovs were only meant to be a stop-gap class anyway.

    Quite right... the money ran out so they could no longer afford gold plated white elephants... for the 10 billion dollars it cost for their current carrier how many Americans could get medical care for life...

    Well with the US medical care system maybe 10...  Twisted Evil

    If you use the aircraft to target the bomb then you you have three variable:
    1. aircraft build differences
    2.Enviromental differences ( fuel, weight, wind)
    3.Bomb manufacturing differences.

    First and third are irrelevant.

    Assuming a clean release the bomb starts at a speed, an altitude, and an angle and based on its aerodynamic shape and wind effects from the altitude it is released to ground level over the target it will follow a fairly predictable flight path.

    Acutally we don't knowthe magnitude of the three parameters, and if we know it then we are not allowed to discuss it on an open forum, maximum during the design/production meetings : )

    What we know is the system has been tested operationally in combat and has been called successful by the users... note the users, not the designers. The Users have upgraded other aircraft with the same system, which suggests to me that it is successful enough to be worth spending money on.

    So, another problem with that if you use the aircraft as targeting is you can target only one place, no more than that.
    In tha tcase the spread of the bombs means opportunity to hit multiple target with one bombing run.
    So, if the bombs are hanging on the top of each other, like in a strategic bomber then the situation will be a bit mroe complicated.

    The Tu-22M3 would likely be used against area targets like oil storage tanks and a cluster of hits around the point of aim would be very effective for such a setup.

    For the Su-24 and Su-34 they could aim in freeflight at targets of opportunity with individual or pairs of bombs.

    So, if you have three bombse then all of them will be on a line.

    If you have 9 bombs in 3 rows of 3 then you have three clusters of hits.

    If your target is a convoy , then you have to adjust the fly path to paralel with the convoy .

    Bombs don't all have to be dropped in one stick.

    If they are show to be dropped together... that would suggest the target suits that sort of method of delivery.

    on the videos visibly the tu-160 ejected the bombs in two phase, with 0.5 sec difference, across the bay.

    AFAIK the Tu-160 has not dropped any bombs in Syria... it only carries cruise missiles.

    Perhaps you are referring to the Tu-22M3?

    Su-25 was a CAS plane from the begining. But on the other hand, yes, old Su-25 without radar, IRST and data link have to come very close to the target to use unguided bombs or rockets or laser guided missiles and they pay a heavy price to MANPADS for this in Chechnya and Georgia.

    So troops on the ground cannot pop smoke to indicate their position and direct aircraft to enemy positions via radio?

    The purpose of the G&T upgrade is to allow bombing of targets from safe altitudes with dumb cheap bombs... are you suggesting the ground forces could not radio an Su-33 with the targets coordinates and that Su-33 could not fly to that location and look for the target using a targeting pod and drop bombs on the target?

    But one thing is sure, Russian military want to use their Su-33 jets fully in Syria in heavy battles in Aleppo and beyond and not to have them there just for show.

    But don't you think the fact that they have spent money on this relatively cheap upgrade that allows dumb bombs to be used like guided weapons suggests they will be capable of attacking ground targets by themselves without ground mapping radar and digital datalinks?

    What are the ship's engines supposed to do apart from taking the ship to destination and back?
    Jump up and down? Sing the glory of the motherland? make an inverted loop?


    Haven't you been watching hollywood movies... Nimitz class carriers can travel back to 1941 and shoot down Zeros and save America...

    The US Navy is now down to only ten aircraft carriers. France has just one. The UK has none operational currently. etc.etc.
    Russia's Kuznetsov is not essential in Syria operations. Hmeyim, Hamadan, Torzok and the Kalibers are doing just fine.

    As long as they don't fall into the same trap the US has fallen into, carriers offer air power to naval forces... it adds vision range and reach, but also offers the advantage of being able to inspect threats rather than just having to decide to fire upon them.

    A good example is the US shooting down of an Iranian airbus in the 1980s... a ship on its own had to either do nothing or fire a missile and murder just under 300 people... they chose the latter.

    If they had not been in Iranian waters at the time and had called in the local carrier an American fighter aircraft could have flown to intercept the Airbus and found it was actually an Airbus and not an Iranian F-14 that they claim they believed it was.


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    KiloGolf
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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:Doing more with less and at a fraction of the price... the new Russia.

    As it is with that CV, more like doing zero.
    It hasn't even sailed yet in 2016 and for a good year now. Maybe two actually.

    There's no point trying to compare a rather small, stop-gap, chopper-based AEW&C platform to the versatile Hawkeyes operating out of French and US carriers, especially the recent deltas of the USN. A platform with no aerial refuelling capability, small combat radius and next to useless loiter time. Completely different league altogether and that without even venturing to compare radar and sensor suite.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Singular_trafo on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:01 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Doing more with less and at a fraction of the price... the new Russia.

    As it is with that CV, more like doing zero.
    It hasn't even sailed yet in 2016 and for a good year now. Maybe two actually.

    There's no point trying to compare a rather small, stop-gap, chopper-based AEW&C platform to the versatile Hawkeyes operating out of French and US carriers, especially the recent deltas of the USN. A platform with no aerial refuelling capability, small combat radius and next to useless loiter time. Completely different league altogether and that without even venturing to compare radar and sensor suite.

    Say next generation russian carrier will carry stealth fighters.
    How much will be the utility of the hawkeye against them?

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Doing more with less and at a fraction of the price... the new Russia.

    As it is with that CV, more like doing zero.
    It hasn't even sailed yet in 2016 and for a good year now. Maybe two actually.

    There's no point trying to compare a rather small, stop-gap, chopper-based AEW&C platform to the versatile Hawkeyes operating out of French and US carriers, especially the recent deltas of the USN. A platform with no aerial refuelling capability, small combat radius and next to useless loiter time. Completely different league altogether and that without even venturing to compare radar and sensor suite.
    Does it matter? The envisaged tasks of the USN carrier types and the RuN carrier and hence their aircraft are totally different. Horses for courses as they say.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:24 pm

    There's no point trying to compare

    And yet you continue to do so...

    ...a rather small, stop-gap, chopper-based AEW&C platform to the versatile Hawkeyes operating out of French and US carriers,

    The Ka-31 is a very successful aircraft which is actually being used by the Russian Army for battlefield recon roles... this is the first time they have bought a naval Kamov model BTW.

    A platform with no aerial refuelling capability, small combat radius and next to useless loiter time.

    A platform that can fly from most aircraft carrying vessel in the Russian navy from cruiser to corvette... you could operate 4-5 within one battle group fleet operating from Destroyer sized vessels.

    Completely different league altogether and that without even venturing to compare radar and sensor suite.

    The main role of an AEW&R aircraft is to detect low flying threats beyond the horizon... the Ka-31 is a much simpler and cheaper option that can operate from a much wider range of platforms and much smaller vessels.


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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  Singular_trafo on Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:15 am

    kvs wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    The Soviets wanted and planned for CATOBAR but they run out of money and imploded. AEW&C assets couldn't just go STOBAR. So there you go. Those few Kuznetsovs were only meant to be a stop-gap class anyway.

    The project 941 cost as much or more than a Nimitz.

    And the SU didn't dissolved due to money problems.
    It was simply Gorbatchov's merith.

    Gorbachev was the tip of the rotting iceberg. The Soviet system had life during the 1960s but started to stagnate after 1976. The economy
    is about human perceptions and action. The Soviet system did not properly take the human element into account. All the discussion about
    communism vs. capitalism typically dances around the fact that neither system is divine perfection and both can function given the right
    conditions. Regardless if 1991 was a tragedy or not, it was the result of decomposition processes in progress before 1991. Reagan and Star Wars
    spending can't take credit, but Communist Party corruption did contribute significantly. The transition has been painful but Russia is much better off
    today in many key metrics. Some of the social costs will take much longer than 25 years to work through.


    google keyvords:
    (Hungary OR Poland OR Ukraine OR Russia) AND ( (fertility rate) OR population OR (PPP GDP) OR GINI OR unemployment )

    Additional google keywords: "RUSSIA foreign debt by time" , "CCCP foreign debt by time"

    Data talk.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:21 am

    Please stay on topic, this thread is for Ad.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier news


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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  par far on Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:46 pm

    Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  par far on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:14 pm

    This is for people like KiloGolf, first the F 35 was a lemon and now USS Gerald R. Ford can't fight.


    https://www.rt.com/usa/352639-us-carrier-gerald-ford-reliablity-problems/


    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/uss-gerald-r-ford-aircraft-carrier-delay/


    CNN is the Zionists own channel.


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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:21 am

    par far wrote:Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

    word is it will bring some of its current SU's some of the new MIG-29K and some Naval based KA-52 attack Choppers, to test them out I guess.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:59 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    par far wrote:Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

    to test them out I guess.

    The whole trip to Syria is nothing but big test for Kuznetsov, planes, helos and crew. Kuznetsov goes for repairs and modernization in 2017, so there would  be no opportunity to use it for few years. So, in my opinion the whole point of this operation is to get all sorts of experience, so there would be something to base further plans on:

    - What Kuznetsov modernization should be like
    - How Su-33 and Mig29K gonna perform
    - How training program for naval pilots should look like

    Let's hope it goes without casualties. I'm kinda worried for new inexperienced pilots there. No

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:09 am

    A1RMAN wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    par far wrote:Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

    to test them out I guess.

    The whole trip to Syria is nothing but big test for Kuznetsov, planes, helos and crew. Kuznetsov goes for repairs and modernization in 2017, so there would  be no opportunity to use it for few years. So, in my opinion the whole point of this operation is to get all sorts of experience, so there would be something to base further plans on:

    - What Kuznetsov modernization should be like
    - How Su-33 and Mig29K gonna perform
    - How training program for naval pilots should look like

    Let's hope it goes without casualties. I'm kinda worried for new inexperienced pilots there. No

    For the most part they already know what they want to do with it.

    1. Replace the propulsion system.
    2. Expand it's flight deck.
    3. Maybe a Catapult.

    Still I have my doubts that ship will ever face a serious modernization chances are it will just be kept in shape enough to sail around Russia shores acting has a training ship until they can field something else

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:38 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    par far wrote:Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

    word is it will bring some of its current SU's some of the new MIG-29K and some Naval based KA-52 attack Choppers, to test them out I guess.

    Can't remember exactly where but I read a while ago that Kuz will be carrying 15 helicopters (Ka-52) and 15 fighters (Su-33 and Mig-29K) but I can remember how many of each.

    Looks like testing helicopters seem to be a priority.

    And I agree with Seg, most of it service life will be spent as training/tech-testing platform.

    Should bigger carriers enter the play, Kuznetzov will be used as strike carrier.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  par far on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:01 am

    A1RMAN wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    par far wrote:Anyone know how many and what types of Fighter Jets and Helicopters, Admiral Kuznetsov, will be carrying, when it goes to Syria? I think will be a very good time to see, what, Admiral Kuznetsov, can do.

    to test them out I guess.

    The whole trip to Syria is nothing but big test for Kuznetsov, planes, helos and crew. Kuznetsov goes for repairs and modernization in 2017, so there would  be no opportunity to use it for few years. So, in my opinion the whole point of this operation is to get all sorts of experience, so there would be something to base further plans on:

    - What Kuznetsov modernization should be like
    - How Su-33 and Mig29K gonna perform
    - How training program for naval pilots should look like

    Let's hope it goes without casualties. I'm kinda worried for new inexperienced pilots there. No

    If the Kuznetsob goes for for repairs and modernization, than Russia will not have a aircraft carrier, what will happen than?

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:13 am

    par far wrote:.....

    If the Kuznetsob goes for for repairs and modernization, than Russia will not have a aircraft carrier, what will happen than?

    Nothing.

    Carriers are not vital component of Russian naval doctrine. Subs are.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:40 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    For the most part they already know what they want to do with it.

    1. Replace the propulsion system.
    2. Expand it's flight deck.
    3. Maybe a Catapult.

    Still I have my doubts that ship will ever face a serious modernization chances are it will just be kept in shape enough to sail around Russia shores acting has a training ship until they can field something else

    Any idea what propulsion system they gonna install?

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:04 am

    A1RMAN wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    For the most part they already know what they want to do with it.

    1. Replace the propulsion system.
    2. Expand it's flight deck.
    3. Maybe a Catapult.

    Still I have my doubts that ship will ever face a serious modernization chances are it will just be kept in shape enough to sail around Russia shores acting has a training ship until they can field something else

    Any idea what propulsion system they gonna install?

    If they are going to, Gas turbines I'd put my money on.

    I don't see them bothering to make this thing nuclear.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:55 am

    They have developed new compact nuclear power plants for large ships... this would be an ideal opportunity to test a few in the K.

    That would free up an enormous amount of space both in terms of the old boilers and old propulsion system but also in terms of on board fuel capacity... which could now focus on Avgas for the aircraft.

    There is no point deploying steam cats, it would make sense to have a early prototype EM cat which would benefit from large amounts of electrical power from a nuke propulsion system.

    Steam cats are dead technology and a technological dead end... if they are going to spend energy and resources on cats it makes sense to develop EM cats and maybe develop a heavier fixed wing aircraft for the AWACS role and transport and tanker roles...


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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:They have developed new compact nuclear power plants for large ships... this would be an ideal opportunity to test a few in the K.

    Who "they"? Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  par far on Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:21 pm

    "RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT CARRIER ‘ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV’ IS ON WAY TO SYRIA – PHOTO".


    https://southfront.org/russian-aircraft-carrier-admiral-kuznetsov-is-on-way-to-syria-photo/




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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:20 pm

    A1RMAN wrote:
    GarryB wrote:They have developed new compact nuclear power plants for large ships... this would be an ideal opportunity to test a few in the K.

    Who "they"? Rolling Eyes

    Rosatom

    http://www.rosatom.ru/en/

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:
    GarryB wrote:They have developed new compact nuclear power plants for large ships... this would be an ideal opportunity to test a few in the K.

    Who "they"? Rolling Eyes

    Rosatom

    Sorry, but I completely missed this news. So they just made a new reactor without testing it anywhere? Or just working prototype?

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:36 pm

    A1RMAN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    A1RMAN wrote:
    GarryB wrote:They have developed new compact nuclear power plants for large ships... this would be an ideal opportunity to test a few in the K.

    Who "they"? Rolling Eyes

    Rosatom

    Sorry, but I completely missed this news. So they just made a new reactor without testing it anywhere? Or just working prototype?

    RITM-200 and of course they tested it. It is being installed on Arktika icebreaker right now:




    It will also be used on floating nuclear power plants and Lider class destroyers.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%98%D0%A2%D0%9C_200

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  A1RMAN on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:17 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    RITM-200 and of course they tested it. It is being installed on Arktika icebreaker right now:


    It will also be used on floating nuclear power plants and Lider class destroyers.



    Thanks a lot! thumbsup

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News

    Post  hoom on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:37 am

    I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
    Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

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