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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:21 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    zino wrote:"Foreign Minister: Russia has no intention to incorporate south-eastern regions of Ukraine"
    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/727470
    Huge blow for the protesters. Now is even harder. Sacrificies (job, prison, life) for.."federation?"
    Sevastopol.info is on fire, literally.
    It seems that tomorrow they will try to retake Kharkov.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk%E2%80%93Krivoy_Rog_Soviet_Republic

    at this stage nothing else can be said..
    what will be done is an other mater>>

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-10/ukraine-miners-don-camouflage-as-donetsk-uprising-mimics-maidan
    Romanenko, elected commander of the camp by the council of protesters, dismisses speculation Russia is behind the uprising,

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:33 pm

    The Donetsk People's Republic has formed its own army, which has already reportedly enlisted over 1500 people
    http://lifenews.ru/news/131042

    Meanwhile, the Foreign Minister of the DPR has been named as Ekaterina Gubareva - who's actually the wife of Pavel Gubarev, the Donetsk "people's governor" that was elected by the protestors who started rallying in Donetsk enmasse from 1st March onwards and storming the regional administration building.
    Pavel Gubarev was soon arrested by the authorities and hastily flown to Kiev to stand trial. Attempts by the locals to storm the local SBU, and stop transports, etc... in order to free him failed; he was already gone.

    Among her duties are the establishment of ties with other subjects, that wish to leave the Ukraine Razz

    Here's an interview with Ekaterina Gubareva about her nomination:


    On Friday the leader of the Lugansk resistance held an interview with the a Russian news agency in Moscow. He's been in Moscow for a few days already, meeting with Zhirinovsky and Mironov and gathering support for his movement. He didn't get a meeting with Putin but the establishment of contacts with the heads of some of Russia's largest political parties is a sign of potential support from the Russian leadership at the unofficial level; at the very least - some co-ordination and dialogue.



    Finally, Oleg Tsarev, a prominent Party of Regions politician, has now reportedly either left or been kicked out of the party; and has over the last few days been touring south-eastern Ukrainian regions; including Nikolayev where he was attacked by Maidan supporters, and went to visit the anti-Maidan protestors in hospital - who were injured a few days back when they were ambushed by a much larger, well-armed group of Maidan 'self-defense forces' and Pravyj Sektor.
    He then made his way to Odessa, and today - he's visited the Donetsk People's Republic and made a speech, calling for the local population to rally behind him, that he's ready to lead the south-east movement and reportedly - also that he will do everything in order to prevent the illegitimate elections being held in May.


    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:15 pm

    Hryvnia is in a free fall. With the pace the situation worsens soon Ukraine will have urgent humanitarian aid. With 40 million people starved it will look again like 1932.
    It took some 80 years to finally expose to humanity that it wasn't abot Russia's fault but Ukraine's unique stupidity in taking her future in own hands.

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:31 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Never mind TR1....it's a difficult period in his life with his arch nemesis popularity soaring through the roof.


    It is. As everyone knows I was not in favor of absorbing any parts of Ukraine. BSF strategic security is nice, and Crimea, well whatever....

    The issue for me now is Putin will ride this gravy train for however more elections he chooses to run in.
    All the Russiastrong tards (I am sorry, I don't like flag wavers anywhere) in Russia will turn a blind eye to the corruption, the pocket-stuffing, will call Putin opposition un-patriotic.....

    Points to years more of United Russia in power. Ugh.


    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:40 pm

    Video about the protest camp around the Lugansk SBU.

    Looks like they've fortified themselves in there pretty good.
    Fortress Lugansk, as some call it  Cool 


    Cyberspec
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:56 am

    flamming_python wrote:In actual fact, the title is appropriate - Putin's policy did fail in the Ukraine.

    If it didn't, we'd be discussing the terms of Ukraine's entrance to the Customs Union right now with Yanukovich.

    A while back  I wrote that IMO Ukraine would be part of a confederacy with Russia within 20 years. These current events have only sped things up, not delayed or wrecked such an outcome.

    The hunta in Kiev doesn't have the capacity (military) or resources (financial) to impose it's rule over Ukraine. Even if they symbolically retake the East they will likely face either civil disobedience, a guerrilla movement, Russian intervention or all of these simultaneously.


    TR1 wrote:

    It is. As everyone knows I was not in favor of absorbing any parts of Ukraine. BSF strategic security is nice, and Crimea, well whatever....

    The issue for me now is Putin will ride this gravy train for however more elections he chooses to run in.
    All the Russiastrong tards (I am sorry, I don't like flag wavers anywhere) in Russia will turn a blind eye to the corruption, the pocket-stuffing, will call Putin opposition un-patriotic.....

    Points to years more of United Russia in power. Ugh.


    Fair enough. I strongly disagree with you on this but hey....I don't want to get into an argument over different perceptions

    zino
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  zino on Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:02 am

    navyfield wrote:
    zino wrote:"Foreign Minister: Russia has no intention to incorporate south-eastern regions of Ukraine"
    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/727470
    Huge blow for the protesters. Now is even harder. Sacrificies (job, prison, life) for.."federation?"
    Sevastopol.info is on fire, literally.
    It seems that tomorrow they will try to retake Kharkov.
    nobody has the financial resourses anymore to support 40 mill people, not usa ,not eu ,especially not russia it would cost too much and make a huge economic burden to support even 20 mill people now let alone 40 mill. cut

    You are absolutely right. And so Vann7 and arpakola. But I wasn't speaking rationally.. I was on the barricade with a big stick in my hands, shouting at the militia. Meanwhile, behind me my wife was preparing the medications for the wounded. Hope you understand the background.
    Those are unique times. We are living history but from a distant point of view. It's not easy to preserve nerve. Hope the leaders will be much better in that task.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  zino on Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:18 am

    Who's that Tsarev? Is he another crook or something? Could be a viable leader for the revolution?
    Gubareva seems better. Judging by the videos ukrainian women are by far better then men: more active during protests, more courageous, they don't fear to expose their opinion in public.

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:54 am

    zino wrote:Who's that Tsarev? Is he another crook or something? Could be a viable leader for the revolution?

    He's been around for some time; a prominent deputy of Yanukovich's party - but he was never that significant in terms of the role he played. Mainly, he was making a lot of speeches, drumming up support and so on.

    When the previous regime was still in power - it organized anti-Maidan protests at a nearby park; this guy was prominent there and made quite a few speeches, as well as in other conferences, etc...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34eqQ1X1Zg4
    In the last days of the previous regime - he was talking about how Yanukovich had authorized a counter-terrorist operation, how the square will be liberated and so on - well that one didn't quite work out so well.

    A few days after the revolution - he was visited by Maidanists in front of his home, at least twice in fact - and both times he went out to meet them, answer their questions, demands, and he did so very well, defending his point of view and not being afraid to do so.

    He's thoroughly pro-Russian - and the reason why he's been received so well here in Donetsk is because he's just about the only eastern politician that didn't betray his electorate in order to suck up to and grovel before the new authorities, mostly he just stayed out of the way but he didn't change sides or renounce his views.

    He isn't presidential material though - not what I would think of as a leader exactly.
    But - the fact that he's come to the Donetsk People's Republic and declared his support for it is pretty significant - he's the first prominent politician in the Ukraine to so.
    Now others might join, the movement will gain some legitimacy, and we may see a united front and some sort of south-east council or something before long - I doubt that there would be any one figure in control and if there will than it won't be this guy. For that - they'll get someone new.

    Gubareva seems better. Judging by the videos ukrainian women are by far better then men: more active during protests, more courageous, they don't fear to expose their opinion in public.

    You're right about that!
    At least from the eastern side. Up until this week all easterner 'leaders' have been subverting their own movements, submitting to the putschists demands, doubling back on their promises, on their own views, completely bullshiting their own electorate, etc...
    All it took was a couple of chats with SBU agents for the person in question to submit - or in a few cases; just get taken into custody without anyone else doing much about it.
    The protestors themselves weren't much better - disorganized, sporadic, lacking initiative - and relying too much on their 'leaders', most of whom ended up betraing them

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:13 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3z2wheJWyk

    Holy shit I almost died from laughter.

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:00 am

    TR1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3z2wheJWyk

    Holy shit I almost died from laughter.

    Can't believe people are discovering that video only just now.
    It's been infamous for years.

    Cyberspec
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:06 am

    This is even funnier....I thought they didn't want to talk with Russia

    German Finance Ministry: Russia should join the G7 to address the situation in Ukraine
    http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/04/11/n_6077105.shtml


    ....

    fresh news

    Armed men seize police department in east Ukraine

    (Reuters) - Several armed men have seized a police department in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slaviansk, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said in a Facebook post on Saturday.

    "Armed men in camouflage uniforms seized the police department in Slaviansk. The response will be very tough because there is a difference between protesters and terrorists," Avakov said, giving no further details.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/12/us-ukraine-crisis-police-idUSBREA3B04O20140412

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:04 am

    Americans take one pseudo initiative after the other trying to calm the anxiety of their "friends" (puppets). Problem is, they make it worse.
    Now they came up with this idea to collect the G7 without Russia to underline the fact that Russia is ousted from G8.
    Rubbish! They suddenly realized that without Russia they have NOTHING to say! and this will look even more hopeless as looked this black man in Denmark recently and everywhere else.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:34 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Armed men seize police department in east Ukraine

    (Reuters) - Several armed men have seized a police department in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slaviansk, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said in a Facebook post on Saturday.

    "Armed men in camouflage uniforms seized the police department in Slaviansk. The response will be very tough because there is a difference between protesters and terrorists," Avakov said, giving no further details.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/12/us-ukraine-crisis-police-idUSBREA3B04O20140412

    Flaming_Python or TR1, can you tell us who was who here?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:44 pm

    In Slavyansk the local district administration, police station & armoury and other local security buildings have been seized.
    The Russian flag is already flying over the local police station



    Avakov, the minister of the MVD - has already sent commandos to the town.
    Who were apparently Berkut... and have refused to carry out Kiev's orders http://lifenews.ru/news/131099

    Take all this with a helping of salt of course.

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    Armed men seize police department in east Ukraine

    (Reuters) - Several armed men have seized a police department in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slaviansk, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said in a Facebook post on Saturday.

    "Armed men in camouflage uniforms seized the police department in Slaviansk. The response will be very tough because there is a difference between protesters and terrorists," Avakov said, giving no further details.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/12/us-ukraine-crisis-police-idUSBREA3B04O20140412

    Flaming_Python or TR1, can you tell us who was who here?

    A Donetsk militia group according to the town's mayor (who supports them), and alledgedly also defectors from local power structures - such as SBU operatives.
    According to the mayor, the police in the town has sided with the militia too.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:15 pm

    Ukraine stops payments for Russian gas, until "a new contract for fair price" would be established.

    What's interesting, if Russia stops delivery, the reverse flow from EU would probably be only enough for part of the country (most of them could be purposefully directed for western regions only).
    So, at the current situation, Russia will be mostly hurting eastern regions, which, Kiev could hope, then would alienate themselves from Moscow for this... or maybe not.

    There's also an option to sign SEPARATE gas contracts with rebellious regions, although then moscow can be accussed of escalating the situation  What a Face oh, decisions decisions  Wink


    ---------------------------
    Su-27 over Luhansk:

    macedonian
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:18 pm

    Well NOW things seem to develop nicely.
    Great that people have started to organize in the East (hope the south is soon to follow).

    BTW, @etaepsilonk, whose SU-27's are those supposed to be?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:24 pm

    macedonian wrote:Well NOW things seem to develop nicely.
    Great that people have started to organize in the East (hope the south is soon to follow).

    BTW, @etaepsilonk, whose SU-27's are those supposed to be?

    Donbass people's army?  Laughing 



    It's Ukraine's, I think they have been buzzing there for a few days already. Ukraine has a squadron at airbase in Poltava, if I'm not mistaken

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:00 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:It's Ukraine's, I think they have been buzzing there for a few days already. Ukraine has a squadron at airbase in Poltava, if I'm not mistaken

    I figured as much.
    Seems too expensive to fly them just for posturing...(poor buggers are still hopeful that their masters will pay their bills)...
    At this point I feel truly sorry for these naive people (not their politicians though).

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:16 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:It's Ukraine's, I think they have been buzzing there for a few days already. Ukraine has a squadron at airbase in Poltava, if I'm not mistaken

    I figured as much.
    Seems too expensive to fly them just for posturing...(poor buggers are still hopeful that their masters will pay their bills)...
    At this point I feel truly sorry for these naive people (not their politicians though).

    Ukrainians are used to revolutions.
    Hell, it's like sports to them  Smile 

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:42 pm

    BBC

    BREAKING NEWS:

    Gunfire breaks out in Ukraine between pro-Russian protesters and police in Kramatorsk - Ukrainian interior minister

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:57 pm


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:58 pm

    Love this response by Russia:

    Possibility of Russia-PACE dialogue made illusory by sanctions – lawmaker

    Chairman of the State Duma International Affairs Committee Alexei Pushkov doubts the possibility of a dialogue between the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and Russia after the Assembly passed anti-Russian sanctions.

    "The PACE chairman wants a dialogue with Russia? There should be no illusion. I don’t think that after the PACE's anti-Russian sanctions it is possible to talk about this dialogue," the parliamentarian wrote on Twitter on Saturday.


    Read more at Voice of Russia

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:24 pm



    foto>> Donetsk republic



    Slaviansk


    Last edited by arpakola on Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:57 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:27 pm

    KP.ru wrote:Самооборона Донбасса взяла здание городского отдела милиции города Краматорска в Донецкой области.

    Вооруженные бойцы отрядов самообороны, которые расположились в здании СБУ Славянска, на двух автобусах выехали в Краматорск и направились к зданию горотдела милиции. У здания их встретили начальники отделения, но, увидев автоматы, подняли руки и попытались договориться. Однако бойцы самообороны сказали, что здание должно быть освобождено, и побежали к крыльцу.


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