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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:43 pm

    Mariupol next building seized

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:52 pm



    Group photo of what seems like the best-armed pro-Russian group in Slavyansk right now.
    Doubt that grandpa in this photo is part of any Russian special-forces group

    Note that they aren't the only ones, we saw a less better armed and ragtag bunch yesterday, the ones that were first there.

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:18 pm

    Looks like special forces..

    In other news - Lukashenko is ruining the show in Ukraine,, He is now saying he is against
    Federalization of Ukraine.. basically he is against the Protest ..because thats what they want.
    Perhaps it is fear that it could happen to Belarus too?

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/727600

    I believe so...
    But There is no other choice for Ukraine ,NATO will never paid 5 billions to ukraine and waste so much resources
    training nazis ,to just exist Ukraine without taking anything back. US and its puppet NATO states simply want to use Ukraine to damage Russia economy that what the original goal ,and later install their military bases there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:08 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    In other news - Lukashenko is ruining the show in Ukraine,, He is now saying he is against
    Federalization of Ukraine.. basically he is against the Protest ..because thats what they want.
    Perhaps it is fear that it could happen to Belarus too?
     

    More like the usual whoring. Wouldn't be the first time  Wink

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:50 pm

    Vann7 wrote:I believe so...
    But There is no other choice for Ukraine ,NATO will never paid 5 billions to ukraine and waste so much resources
    training nazis ,to just exist Ukraine without taking anything back. US and its puppet NATO states simply want  to  use Ukraine to damage Russia economy that what the original goal ,and later install their military bases there.  

    Federalization would be a medium-term measure, but a temporary one I think. Ukraine has to get its shit sorted out.

    Anyway, if not federalization - then there is another alternative; namely to catapult this rotten government out of power - and put in place a REAL transition government, as well as delaying presidential elections and all the rest of this circus, which the putschists are trying to use to legitimize their usurping of power.

    But of course they themselves will never agree to leave power. The anti-Maidan forces can get to the gates of Kiev - then they will have a stronger bargaining position.. but by then it will probably be too late for the survival of the Ukraine as a united state.

    The only hope is for Russia and the EU/US to agree to such a compromise, and jointly squeeze the Junta out. I don't think they'll come to an agreement, but basically it's main chance is in the upcoming Geneva meeting in a few days. If not then, then perhaps never; things can spin even more out of control.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Regular on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:38 pm

    It looks that the big boys have to step in and sort the things out. It's heading to massive disaster. What could be worse than war with Russia is civil war.
    West and Russia has to put all rhetorics aside and stop this circus, as I doubt Ukrainian government is able to glue the country together.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:49 pm

    The loss of Odessa would likely force Kiev to concede to demands to dissolve the coup-instated government, create a transition process, hold fair elections, and create a federal government with power vested in local institutions. As you posted above, Tymoshenko is already hedging bets.

    Police in Odessa massively joined pro-Russian protests , loss of Odessa IMO would be most serious blow to new Kyiv government




    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_12/Federalization-of-Ukraine-is-wisest-and-most-balanced-solution-Marine-Le-Pen-8204/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:05 pm

    http://www.schweizmagazin.ch/nachrichten/ausland/18983-CIA-Chef-Kiew.html
    Eine Quelle im ukrainischen Parlament hat der russischen Nachrichtenagentur Interfax mitgeteilt, dass der CIA Chef John Brennan vor kurzem die ukrainische Hauptstadt Kiew besucht und mehrere Treffen mit den Machthabern gehabt hätte.

    Die Person, die Interfax kontaktierte, sagte in einem Telefongespräch, dass John Brennan nicht unter seinem richtigen Namen eingereist sei.

    Nach einigen noch unbestätigten Informationen wurde die Entscheidung, Demonstrationen in Slavyansk, einer Stadt im Osten der Ukraine mit Gewalt zu unterdrücken, zwischen den Behörden der Ukraine und Brennan beraten.

    Allerdings hat Interfax keine Bestätigung von offiziellen Quellen, dass dies wirklich so ist.

    Laut dem ehemaligen deutschen Bundesinnenminister Otto Schily, ist die CIA vergleichbar mit einer terroristischen Vereinigung.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:16 pm

    Near Slavyank self-defence unit from exBerkut members detained "Kraz" truck full of Grad missiles on the road checkpoint with Ukr soldier in it. He wasn't able to show any papers on the cargo. Locals go mad and almost linched soldier, they thought it preparation for Grad attack on the city.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:27 pm

    - seems like Slavyansk has beaten 'Wave 1'. Now Turchinov has gave them an ultimatum until tommorow, to lay down their arms.
    There have been a few more deaths, a car showed up and its 2 occupants shot up - unclear by who. Meanwhile the Ukr. special forces have reportedly requested authority to use heavy weaponry but Kiev refused - so the special forces got pissed off and went back to their staging area. Other than that, the main activity of the Ukrainian forces; by use of about 7-8 BTRs, was probing the main entrance to the town, and then trying to find other possible entrances. Seems that they have surrounded the town; a siege is building-up.
    - small rally in Nikolayev today: http://felix-edmund.livejournal.com/62458.html
    - Russian Ministry of Foreign affairs has commented on the situation, urgently calling together a meeting of the UN Security Council, and OSCE.
    - small amount of pro-Russian protestors in Zaporozhie are under siege, by a larger crowd of Maidanists; who make up several hundred people. 10 pro-Russians have already been taken away by ambulance. Others (women, old men) have been evacuated by the police, reportedly the same was offered to the rest but the men decided to stay. Reportedly a lot of the Maidanists are Pravyj Sektor and Maidan activists from nearby Dnepropetrovsk, and also from Poltava. Kolomojski's guys in other words. Students studying in the city originating from Western Ukraine also turned up. But probably there are a bunch of local Maidanists too.
    - Kharkov anti-Maidan has occupied the regional administration today: http://felix-edmund.livejournal.com/62093.html
    Pro-Russians had a huge rally there today, and basically displaced the Maidanist protest which was smaller; and which fled the site before the anti-Maidan turned up. They are now trying to free the nearly 70 activists who were arrested at the beginning of last week.
    - big march in Odessa today, fortunately violence-free it seems.
    - reportedly; tanks and BTRs on the way to Mariupol.
    - Mariupol protestors have set up barricades outside the occupied city administration building very quickly

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:36 pm

    Avakov is calling for the formation of new units of police on the basis of civilian formations all over the Ukraine, up to 12,000 members total.
    http://greeden.livejournal.com/285117.html

    Basically, he's had enough of unreliable police units in the east of the country, and he needs someway to legitimize all the militias/mobs that the government is supporting and bring them under tighter control - so he's decided to hit two birds with one stone and create special police units out of them.

    I guess this is like the formation of the national guard, but the national guard was created for fighting external enemies, and are armed like soldiers are - but what Avakov wants now is to fight internal enemies; hence this move which will draw in fighters from the Maidan self-defense forces (now pissed off that they are left w/o funding), Pravyj Sektor and others.
    This will not only bring them into his direct subordination, but also allow them to be trained, equipped, etc... properlly to put down the anti-Maidan movements.

    At least that's my take on it.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:38 pm


    Supposedly Donetsk today:

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:46 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    Supposedly Donetsk today:

    Fits in with the anti-terrorist operation supported by the armed forces, that Turchinov declared today.

    Heavy equipment & vehicles have also been spotted onroute to Mariupol. And of course around Slavyansk.

    Apparently, buildings could be stormed even tonight, according to the head of the SBU. Although Turchinov officially gave everyone 1 night to free all occupied buildings

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:49 pm

    FP, are there any units of the Ukrainian military stationing in the east? Or maybe the disintegration of the armed forces has reached such an advanced stage that no such thing exists anymore?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:57 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:FP, are there any units of the Ukrainian military stationing in the east? Or maybe the disintegration of the armed forces has reached such an advanced stage that no such thing exists anymore?

    Sure, just as there are all over the country; air-defense troops, armour, artillery, airforce bases, etc... especially with the latest tensions, some were redeployed.

    Also a whole bunch of the National Guard forces; they are situated on the border mostly, although a battallion is reportedly heading to Slavyansk.

    And then you have the border guard forces as well.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:50 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    Supposedly Donetsk today:

    Pardon my possible ignorance on the matter but isn't Donetsk controlled by armed opposition forces?  Suspect If so, that Buk can be captured if it isn't already, right?  Smile

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:29 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    arpakola wrote:
    Supposedly Donetsk today:

    Pardon my possible ignorance on the matter but isn't Donetsk controlled by armed opposition forces?  Suspect If so, that Buk can be captured if it isn't already, right?  Smile

    No, they only control the regional administration and possibly the SBU building still. I might have heard something about them capturing a police station building but I don't remember.

    Donetsk is a big city, nearly a million people; police can come and go, government employees, the military too, and most people are just going about their business without even paying mind to what's going on in with the captured buildings - even if a lot do support them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  arpakola on Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:00 am




    to Marioupole

    etaepsilonk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  etaepsilonk on Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:23 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    No, they only control the regional administration and possibly the SBU building still. I might have heard something about them capturing a police station building but I don't remember.

    Donetsk is a big city, nearly a million people; police can come and go, government employees, the military too, and most people are just going about their business without even paying mind to what's going on in with the captured buildings - even if a lot do support them.

    Oh, I see, thanks for information.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:51 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    That article sucks, the diplomat isn't very well known for unbiased reporting.  They make it look like Kazakhs are worried, but there is obviously no need for worry, as Kazakhstan is already part of CSTO and Customs Union, so any annexation by Russia would be absolutely pointless.  Either people are ignorant, or the whole thing is just one big lie, which I am betting its a lie.

    No kidding "The Diplomat" is a joke of a geo-political themed site, they have a blatantly anti-Russian, anti-Chinese, pro-NATO, pro-Pentagon slant, so it's hard to take their ridiculous articles seriously!

    It's quite ironic that a site that's named "The Diplomat" actually prefers arm-twisting, strong-arming from the Pentagon over actual diplomacy. One of their worst writers goes by the name of Zachary Keck, he's a sensationalist yellow journalist who would give Hearst publishing a run for their money! Check out this ridiculous article by Keck, it's like a giant steaming landfill transformed itself in to a geo-political themed article:

    http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/undermine-russia-from-within/


    What's flawed about that "The Diplomat" Kazakhstan article is that their implying and assuming that Russia is trying transform back in to the USSR, but even in the height of the Cold War the Soviet Union never toppled govt's that they were friendly and militarily allied with, the same can't be said about the Pentagon/NATO.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  zino on Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:50 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XMKu7OYolk
    WTF? It's fake I hope!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:51 am

    arpakola wrote:
    Supposedly Donetsk today:

    OMG...What?

    Buks systems? Which side have those weapons? Donetsk?
    How Kiev got those system? or those sam defenses belong to the Pro Russian forces?
    In any case Pro Russians protesters needs to clear the path from Crimea to Donetsk and From Crimea to Odesa if possible. Having land locked
    Ukraine will force Kiev to negotiate under any term.. But i will say that only full show up of civilians can do it.. Im disappointed with the
    extreme passiveness of Central Ukraine ,not a single city taken by pro Russians or at least no protest directly in the capital. Ukrainians from central Kiev NEED to pressure Kiev with huge rallies at their doors ,that will truly scare the hell of them and understand that they could be overthrow at any moment. A massive force of many thousands in needed in kiev to make them sure that they will never be able to take control of Ukraine by Force and this will save many lives ,once the kiev junta understand they cannot stay in power for long if continue ignoring the demands.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:52 am

    Watching the live UN Security council talks on Ukraine, LMFAO!!  Very Happy

    Update:
    -Apparently, no ones aware that there is no build up of Russian forces on the Ukrainian border (guess they don't watch NBC).  

    -Protesters are now separatist terrorist, apparently. Rolling Eyes 

    -America bitching about Russia sending there agents to destabilize the region (basically the pot is calling the kettle black).

    -Everyone is comparing the situation in SE Ukraine with that of Crimea, but of course not with that of the earlier situation that unfolded in the west of Ukraine (ooh, what perfect logic). Razz 

    -America bitching about Russian propaganda, cause we all know how fair, balanced, accurate and unbiased the Western media is. Laughing

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  macedonian on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:16 am

    Just saw the news about the UNSC discussion yesterday.
    It fcukin' pissed me off! Russia should take note on how the USSA empire behaves, and take a much, much harder stance towards them from now on. They don't care about diplomacy, their diplomatic etiquette is virtually non-existent. From now on, just veto every single one of their proposals at the UNSC for the fcuk of it!
    Expose every single international standard they brake, even when it's none of Russia's concern. Screw with them every chance you get. Escalate tensions with them whenever possible.

    In short - do what they do, but do it in a different manner, taking international law in account.

    Don't abstain from voting, like in the Libya scenario, veto it!
    Call them on their support for Al-Qaida in Syria.
    Expose their connections with Chechnian terrorism.
    Talk about the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, and the consequences for the locals whenever the occasion arises.
    Explain how they prop-up the dollar by wars.
    Whenever the 'freedom of the press' question arises, Russia could just say: 'We take no advise on such matters from the very same people that bombed the Serbian TV, claiming that it was a "legitimate target"'.

    etc etc

    The possibilities are endless, as is their braking of international law and established standards.

    /rant

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:28 am

    There's been a mutiny in the 25th Airmobile Brigade stationed in Dnetropetrovsk according to ANNA. They are refusing to sign an extension of their contract and the situation is tense

    http://anna-news.info/node/15054


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